| Author | Message | ||
| Richard, Jr. |
What do you feel should be the role of women in the church? | ||
| Richard, Jr. |
What do you feel shoud be the role of women in the Christian church? | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Richard Jr, Hmmmm, this is a good one. I personally feel that a women should be able to hold any position in the Church with the EXCEPTION of head pastor! I think that positionally, the man is put in the "final" authority by God. Sooo, teacher, deaconess, 2nd in command pastor, etc. all fall within the guidelines and principles of the Bible. She should, if she is moved to do so, be able to pray in Church and make all God led contributions in what ever manner she is led to. I was kicked out of a Baptist Church that didn't share my view. Even at prayer meeting, the gals were required to remain silent. And carrying a money plate was definately way beyond the scope of her duties. What do you think? Maryann | ||
| Steve |
Something I read last year was very interesting in light of the role of women in the church. There doesn't seem to be a specific passage of scripture (in the NT) where "ordaining" men is a command. We interpret those passages with our male/female eyes, and not in light of the fact that in Christ there is no male or female, for all are one in Christ Jesus (Gal. 3:28.) If we are all one in Jesus, what's the point of limiting ordination to one gender? If God was so up on us men, why wasn't Jesus born of a man, or why didn't He just appear? God chose a woman to bring Himself into direct contact with humans. Looking through scripture, one is amazed at the fabulous women that have been used in mighty ways by God. Judges, Prophets, our Mother Eve, Rahab, and others of GREAT FAITH through whom the Holy Spirit of God worked in mighty ways. When we start dividing up the gifts of the Holy Spirit based on various externals such as race (after all, slavery was a "Biblical" idea, wasn't it?), gender, hair length and eye color (Jesus had long hair, not these sanitized, Americanized, Saxonized versions of Him that we are so used to), language (if we don't speak/read King James English, we can't get the complete truth), occupation or lack thereof (having been unemployed for two years has been an EYE-OPENER on people's attitudes), etc., etc. If we were to look at a resume of a potential Pastor, we should not see anywhere on that resume that the individual is man or woman. It should only state the quaifications and the fact that that person loves Jesus Christ and has a relationship with Him. Period. The same is true in business. When I used to look at resumes, I was (legally) not allowed to identify whether the applicant was a man or woman, but only the qualifications. Why can't Christians do the same? Or are we going to continue to allow the World to continue to be better than we are? I know one pastor here in Riverside, who when asked about his calling said, "I always knew I wanted to be a pastor. It was something I felt since I was a child." In that interview on videotape, which my son made, I was amazed that he never once stated that he felt called by God to be a spiritual leader or shepherd for God's people. When a woman feels God's calling, why would we take this man over her? After all, she may have a real calling, rather than a feeling from childhood that that's what one wanted to do. Or, maybe a woman can't be as Godly as a man? Neither Male nor Female, but One in Christ, Steve | ||
| Colleentinker |
I believe women are spiritually gifted as much as men. I definitely believe many have gifts of ministry. I have to admit that I've had to rethink my views on this subject to some extent. Spiritual gifts are given by God. He expects us to use them. I believe, however, that a woman who has to FIGHT to exercise her gifts may need to ask herself if God might be calling her to a different venue. Paul admonished believing slaves to serve their masters as brothers, and he admonished believing slave owners to treat their slaves as brothers in the Lord. He also said all were to remain in the condition they were in when God called them. He did say that if a slave could achieve his freedom, he should do so. But becoming a freedman was not his greatest goal. Serving as a brother was his greatedst goal. Similarly, I believe that when women focus on a political struggle to achieve equality for women in ministry, they are probably focusing on the wrong thing. I believe that if God bestows a spiritual gift, he also provides a venue for that gift. I think women in ministry is ultimately in the same boat as all other aspects of living in the Lord: we must let God provide the gifts and the venues. If we take the battle into our own hands, the calling to actual ministry will be eclipsed. Please do not hear me as being passive. Rather, I believe that our passion must be always directed to serving the Lord, not our rights. God in his grace providesósometimes surprisinglyóthe realization of his calls. Colleen | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Steve, I do believe you just put in writing the MOST profound comments and principles on the subject of the role of women in Church that I have EVER heard! AND IT IS ALL BASED FROM THE BIBLE!! We find that the finished work of Christ makes the Sabbath a daily principle of eternity, not of a weekly cycle. We find that through the finished work of Christ, tithe also is a principle of, everything is His through His blood, therefore all is His not a measley 10%. Sooo, now you come along and show us that we are ALL, because of His blood, ONE. Not male, not female BUT ONE. Why should that apply to all but pastorship? I'm sure that this is something that the "Christian" world in general may not be willing to accept real fast. Think about it, tithing is generally accepted as a command and most Churches "require" and a great many Christians don't even realize why they DON'T keep the Sabbath! Great post, Steve! One with you because of Christ....Maryann | ||
| ray pitts |
The Role of Women in the Church. The SDA church at the White Estate says that EGW was not an ordained minister. I have two copies of her ordination credentials from different years, signed by G. I. Butler and Uriah Smith that says otherwise. Anyone wanting a copy of these ordination certificates, send me an E-Mail and I will scan them in and E-Mail them back to you for free. Ray raypitts@worldnet.att.net raypitts@bellsouth.net | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Colleen, A little story. When Merikay McLeod Silver and Lorna Tobler were court-battling Pacific Press for equal pay with men's for equal work performed by women, they were constantly barraged with messges by SDA women workers there who would quote Paul telling slaves to return to their masters. For years the women "slaves" urged their two fellow women "slaves" (Pacific Press employees Merikay and Lorna Tobler) to drop their lawsuit and return to their "masters" (the male administrators there) till God in his good time would WORK OUT the right thing. Merikay's answer stunned me to my core and set me forever back on my heels: "God IS working out the right thing through Lorna and me." And in all the years since, I've never been able to refute that argument deep down in my heart. And when the battle was over, and the General Conference of SDAs (acting for Pacific Press) had lost their case on every single one of the SEVENTEEN points of law at issue, the vast majority of women "slaves" -- approximately 200 women employees, with a handful of exceptions (read, women who didn't need the money anyway, such as Margaret, the wife of PP's general manager Lynn Bohner) -- ACCEPTED the back pay earned off the blood and sweat of the two women "slaves" and REFUSED to return it to the church (in the form of an anonymous "offering" mechanism set up by the court) when ASKED and even INTIMIDATED to do so by the General Conference. In other words, they DISOBEYED their masters. What sayest thou? Jude | ||
| Colleentinker |
Jude, I totally agree. If I were still an Adventist, I would absolutely put my efforts behind such as they. Here are two reactions from my current perspective: I believe that what Merikay and Lorna did, had to be done. The problem they were fighting, however, was not just injustice; they were fighting evil. They were fighting for justice in a system shaped and grown by deception and subtle but pervasive evil, and such a system could not actually mete out justice. Justice had to come from outside. My own fights for "justice" were never as impacting or dramatic as what Merikay and Lorna did. But I did fight for justice in a more behind-the-scenes way. Today, however, I believe that the TRUTH is that there cannot actually be justice in an evil system, even if certain behaviors or habits are cleaned up. I had to come to the conclusion that I had to change venues. The sad fallout of the Merikay events is that several of the principals actually lost sight of Jesus along with their falling away from the unjust church. That reality was probably nearly unavoidable. Leaving Adventism usually results in deep cynicism about Jesus/God as well. The reason I said what I did about thinking maybe I would need to change venues if I were being confronted with rigidity is that if we have to fight to the point of losing faith, maybe God would have something more just and more suited to us OUTSIDE the venue where we're fighting. I'm not saying Merikay should have quit and gone elsewhere. I do believe that God has caused many things to happen publicly to the church as part of his way to try to wake up the deceived to the truth. Merikay and Lorna, I believe, were part of God's wake-up calls. But when it comes to women fighting for ordination against rigid and arrogant refusals coming from the church heirarchy, I think those women run the risk of losing their passion for ministry in their passion for justice. If God has called a woman to ministry, then He will have a place for her to minister. Maybe it's not in the venue where she has to fight. After all, a call to ministry is not a call to a soldier's duties. I sat in 'way too many church board meetings where both women and men, with determined chins and thin, arrogant lips declaimed at length their proposals and arguments for womens' ordination. The anger and condescension they displayed became increasingly distasteful to me. The arguments for ordination invariably revolved around fairness, STATUS, and political correctness. My sympathies were initially with the women, but as the arguments continued and the re-hashing of church policy heated up, especially after Utrecht, I found myself left cold by their angry insistence and disgusted by the lack of promised support from the church heirarchy. I do not believe that women should shut up and sit down if they're told they can't be ministers. But I also don't believe that ministers are supposed to fight political battles that cost them their passion for Christ. I think that if a woman (or man) finds her(him)self in such a position, there may be a better venue for her or him. | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Y'all, I light of all of the above, especially Steve's post, what maketh you guys of (KJ) 1 Tim. 2:11-13: 11..Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12..But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13..For Adam was first formed, then Eve. Believe me, I DO understand silence. One week of it, ha ha ha! ;-(((( All silly stuff aside. What do those verses mean? I don't think equal pay for equal work is the issue here, either. Another thing, no matter how strong and resilient we are, we need to keep better hours and get the required hours of sleep we need! Hint hint ;-)))) Maryann | ||
| sherry |
I've been thinking about those verses lately myself, Maryann. I found a website that addressed it quite well. If I can find it again, I'll share it. But it does seem to teach women not to teach over a man...that doesn't mean not to teach but not as an authority over man. I see so many men that seem to lack their leadership of the home position. Is it because we as woman do usurp authority over man? It's just a thought. I see us as equals with God-given different roles, and I'm ok with that. | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Colleen, And I agree totally with you. I remember distinguishing in my own mind between the "equal pay for equal work" (EPEW) battle and the "ordination of women" (OOW) battle. At the time I reasoned that even though I supported Merikay and Lorna -- and lost my job because of it -- nevertheless I would not support "ordination for women" in the same way. The difference: In EPEW the denomination was breaking the law. In OOW it wasn't. So I supported OOW only up to a point. And that point may have been very close to the "saturation point" that you experienced. In the final analysis I thought that if the denomination -- particularly the majority of its WOMEN -- didn't want OOW, then who was I, a man, to try to force it upon them politically? The denomination WAS NOT breaking the law. And that, for me at least, made the decisive difference. Like you, I backed off of outspoken support of OOW. Quo vadis, Jude | ||
| Colleentinker |
Thanks for the dialogue, Jude! BTW, Sherry, I appreciated your thoughts on those "women in silence" quotes. I almost fear to speak my recent thoughts on those texts, but I have to agree that I've also had similar conclusions to yours. I believe that men and women are equally important and authoritative in the Lord, but they do have different roles in life. I'm okay with that, too! | ||
| Chyna |
hullo, i have a lot to say about women in the church having recently been engaged talking to a conservative friend of mine. having been raise baptist i was always taught that women shouldn't teach in the church. however, once i got to college i was confronted left and right with women counselors, women pastors etc. so, then a speaker came and talked about women's roles in the church. i have read and analyzed the key passages that churches use to say that women should not be ordained. 1. "women are to be silent" etc. etc. this verse is taken to be a case point more likely that women were calling out questions and disrupting the service. and it is certain that women spoke in the church because there were those three daughters that were prophetesses, and also women ran the home churches, most often people met in widow's houses for church so they had to speak, they were running the place. abigail was a deaconness. it's hard for us to understand now, but Christianity has done more for raising women's status in equality than anything else in the world. 2. "women should not teach men." the example given was that eve was deceived, adam wasn't. but it was explained to me that back then women weren't educated like men were, so often false teachers would go from house church to house church telling false doctrine to these women who would pass it on to their house church, therefore corrupting the doctrine. heheh, the bible says something about 'weak-wiled' women. so to me, that seems like a cultural situation rather than a universal doctrine. also PHOEBE and her husband taught Apollos the great speaker who was off on his doctrine. 3. junia (a woman), was commended among the apostles. some have tried to dispute that Junia is not a female name, but it is. Rom 16:7 "Greet Andronicus and Junia, my relatives who were in prison with me; they are prominent among the apostles" does not an apostle preach? 4. the head of Christ is God argument. i have nothing against this, but sometime i wonder what the effect is. because it's been submitted that "Husbands love your wives" implies 'wives love your husbands,' and so equally 'wives submit to your husbands.' means also 'husbands submit to your wives.' so this is what i asked my friend, who wants to agree with my position on women in the church but her own church keeps shooting her down with their arguments. "when you and a fellow christian that is a man get into a discussion about something spiritual, does it automatically mean that he is right?" the speaker made a few points that stuck in my mind. "women can't teach men, why? because women are defunct in some way? but women can teach women?" also Jesus Christ had women followers as well as men followers. anyway, so i maintain women can be everything in the church. i am not sure about the head pastor or not, but ... in Him, Chyna | ||
| Chyna |
1 Corinthians 14:34 The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. 35 If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church. see how the first verse taken with the second verse starts to make more sense? these women were likely wondering about things and asking them aloud that would have been taught to them in the torah that men would know because men were allowed to be educated. also, in greek times women weren't even allowed to speak in public! it does say a great deal about those times. also if you look at the context of the chapter, it seems to be addressing disorderly conduct during the service... Paul talks about "speaking in tongues" something that is also quite controversial in the church today, but Paul is saying "if there is no interpreter keep it to yourself" and "how can it be edifying to the church if no one understands it" the end summary of that chapter is: 40 But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner. which further reinforces my opinion that "women be quiet" in the church has more to do with interrupting the service and testimony to unbelievers than the estate of women's spirituality. also the word for woman in Genesis "helper" of Adam is the same word used for Holy Spirit. pretty cool, huh. 1 Timothy 2:11-13, II Timothy 3:16 2:12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. the commentary i read on this was saying clearly that there were prophetesses, and did they not teach? did Phoebe not teach Apollos? is not Junia an apostle? the context of II Tim 3 is that Paul starts out by reviling men who are lovers of self instead of lovers of God that seduce women. this is the passage i'm talking about that women ran the house churches (widows) and that they were probably lonely and uneducated and these men would teach them false things. and maybe seduce them, i don't know ... but if women can be followers of christ (like mary) can be missionaries, can be deaconnesses, can be prophetesses, can be apostles, why can't they teach? and phoebe taught apollos ... sorry i am not complete, but i am learning too :) | ||
| Valm |
Chyna, It seems that you have done alot of study on this matter, something I can not claim. One of the things that struck me in your post was that when those things were written the time and setting were so different cultural than ours. I wonder if Christianity was picking up the pace of woman's rights to a point must faster than society was ready to assimilate and thus the admonishment. I wonder if in their new found freedome the women themselves were becoming a little over bearing. The other thing that struck me is that women have a different voice and perspective than men. I need women leaders in my life because of this perspective. Two examples are sailing and ocmputers. Never allow a man to teach you sailing, they speak a different language; go out with a girlfriend and you will learn to enjoy the sport. When my husband tries to teach me anything on the computer I just don't get it, it isn't a lack of sincerity on either of our parts it is a different language, approach and perspective. When I was put on a laptop at my job they had a classs of all nurses taught by three women, it was like a party complete with pop, chocolate and women type jokes. Computer jargon was kept at a minimum and introduced coupled with words women could relate to. I excelled in this method. Frankly, if I were to join a Bible study and had the choice, I'd pick a woman leader over a man. Not that I dislike men. It is that I learn better from a woman's perspective. I have a brother who is a total fanatic about male domination and uses those Bible texts to keep his wife under his thumb. She is not allowed to point out her opinions in scripture because it is not the woman's place to teach the husband but his place to lead her. She is pressured not to read anything without his approval because he is the spiritual leader of his household. THIS IS TOXIC AND ABUSIVE!!!! I am so sad for her and can palpably feel her pain and opression when the two of them are in a room together. I am not much of a spiritual leader but Chyna GO FOR IT GIRL, you have what it takes to be a part of doing great things for God. And yes if God opens the door you can be the head of a congregation. Women do it many times over in other congregations. | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Well, here I am, reading and fuming! How dare any man think himself better, smarter, or in any sense more spiritual than myself, just because I happen to be born without the phallic symbol! As you can see, this subject burns me up to no end. Personally speaking, I can say with confidence that I have more on the ball than most men I know. No offense guys as I'm talking about my attitude of embracing both genders (which alot of men have a problem with) but,,,if any man, be he a pastor, deacon or any other position, approaches me in a manner of disrespect due to gender, then I let him know, with no uncertainty, exactly what I think of it and with no hesitation will also inform him of his stupidity to even think in such terms. This is my stance. In the medical field or any other field of work I've been in, I've encountered this very attitude and everytime I do, I want to knock the man's head off of his shoulders! No kidding, just the facts ma'am. :) So, in the Church, it is God who calls the shots, it is God who makes the calling, not the guy in Church with the penis. Pretty straight up talk from this woman at the other end of your computer screens, but very much the truth. I can't be bothered playing around trying to flower up my words as there is no way to get around this issue without someone speaking it as it is. In the Bible, as in a post above quotes, we are all children of God and so to paraphrase, there is neither male nor female, slave nor free, greek nor jew etc. etc. etc. (I feel like the man in 'the king and I'). The mind that thinks that men are somehow better in any way, shape or form, than women, is the same mindset of the racist. I can't tolerate racists either, I have been outcasted due to this very ignorant, although mostly it is not ignorance so much as it is deliberate and pompus, mindset and will fight it until my dying day. Welp, those are my opinions and beliefs on this matter. Hopefully the mindset of our society will get past the bovine intelligence enough to actually understand that women are equal in God's eyes. God Bless all of us, both genders at that, Denise | ||
| Colleentinker |
Hooray! School's out for two week! Maybe I'll be able to read and catch up on the forum! This subject of women in ministry is one I've struggled with over the past sixth months. I've posted about this before, but when we were studying 1 Corinthians in our Friday night FAF meetings I really had to come face to face with some of the passages Paul wrote about women keeping silent, etc. First, I've been bothered for a long time by the militant feeling I picked up from SDA women (and men!) when they talked about campaigning for women's ordination. I always felt an underlying drive for "equality" and power and status. Implicit in this underlying drive was the assumption that they were not already equal or powerful or well-placed. In fact, in the Adventist setting those assumptions were probably true. When the Holy Spirit is not present in a group of people, men and women do distrust each other. The curse in Genesis 3 rules over the genders when they they are not reborn. And, in fact, while men have the "testosterone advantage" when it comes to brute strength and agressiveness, women have the "manipulation advantage". While men can actually keep women "one down", women can make men's lives miserable. Yes, men get the professional advantages in non-reborn, Western society. But conversely, women have the seduction, manipulation advantage. So, who really wins? The men want to retain their power and control, and the women respond by trying to prove they can do a man's work in a man's world. Both genders distrust each other and resent each other. . .and actually, with good reason! When we are reborn, however, God gives us ourselves back again in a new way. We are spiritually alive, and the Holy Spirit indwells us. We are not limited to living under the curse of death any more. God renews our relationship with himself, and he renews our relationships with each other. In 1 Corinthians 11 it talks about women wearing the sign of authority on their heads (head coverings) when they pray or prophesy--and it's talking about public worship. After reading Barclay on this chapter, I'm convinced that the point of this passage is not about women keeping quiet, it's about women speaking in a way that's culturally appropriate so what they say will not be disrespected or ignored. If women in Corinth had gone into public with their heads uncovered as a celebration of their freedom in Christ, they would have been scorned as immoral women. Their worship would have been disdained. Yes, Paul does say women aren't to have authority over men. That has bothered me for some time, but it's starting to make sense to me. Ephesians 5 clearly says women are to respect their husband and to be submissive to them, but it also says that men are to love and cherish their wives as Christ loved the church and gave his life for it. The model of Christ and the church makes it clear that whatever the biblical model of men and women is should be based in love. Neither men nor women, once reborn, live for themselves. They live for Love. I believe that men and women (in Christ) are equal and should see each other as equals. But I also believe that they have different roles. The hormone and physical differences alone suggest different roles. The really important thing I'm discovering, however, is that in Christ femininity is a strength as great as masculinity. It's just different. In Christ, men and women do not need to compete. Women do not have to try to be as good as men in a man's world. They can be women in a world that also has men. Our power and authority, when we're reborn, do not come from our own cleverness or conniving or from militance or from demanding or logic. Our power comes from the Holy Spirit in us. In Christ, our feminity (that is in us women!) is actually a strength granted and empowered by God. We can function effectively as women without trying to do our jobs like men. In Christ, women receive an identity that no man can threaten, so they can be free to respect men without fear or jealousy. In Christ, men receive personal freedom that allows them to care for women without fear of bondage or manipulation. And when we don't have to fear each other any more, we become free to do with joy the work God places before us. It's clear that God does give some women gifts of teaching and leadership and insight and prophecy (in a speaking-for-God way, not an EGW way!). But I think it's also clear that there is a Biblical model for men taking the ultimate responsibility for protecting and caring for women and children. And I don't mean this in a helpless, quiet, passive way. The mandate for men to be like Christ is powerful and tender, all at once. The mandate for women to respect and "submit" courageous and loving. In short, I do think women have places in ministry. But I do also think that the final role of authority should belong to men. Let me say again, howver, that this model only works if men and women are reborn. Richard and I were truly shocked a couple of weeks ago when a fairly recent member of our FAF groupóa recently reborn former SDA who has had the most amazing life change I've ever witnessed at close rangeósaid he had observed that even though I do the bulk of the study prep and writing for our studies, I defer to Richard to start and shape the meetings. Further, he stated, "Ive observed that you are the same way in your home." He stated that he saw it as the biblical model actually working. Richard and I looked at each other in astonishment and acknowledged that, although we don't actually think about it, his observation is true. I believe that when we live with the Holy Spirit, he brings about healing between the sexes. I can't actually explain the nuances of what I'm experiencing or thinking about this subject, but I just wanted to contribute the changes in my thinking that have been happening during the past six months. The most amazing thing is that since becoming truly a Christian, I've discovered that I'm enjoying the company of other women much more, as a group, than I used to. And I enjoy knowing that as I stand in the classroom, I don't have to compete with the successful and popular male teachers. I can use the gifts God has given meóincluding functioning as a mom in many casesóand teach successfully by the blessing of God. I just praise God for redeeming all of usóeven our femininity and masculinity! In Him, Colleen | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Dear Colleen, How does the hormone and physical differences suggest different roles in Church?? I see the men doing what I could do as far as strength. I mean, how hard is it to stand and preach? What physical strength does that take? Absolutely a whole lot less than tending the children in the nursery, I will say that. So too, the hormones that you speak of, I see many effeminate men in the SDA Church especially. Also, I see many a woman, one of which I am, that are not feminine. For me, I am single. I have no man that I am married to and probably this is a good thing. For me, it would not be possible to 'submit' to any man. Recently, I have been asked to marry a certain gentleman. The very first thing that came to my head was this 'submitting' to him. With that thought first and foremost in mind, I asked him if he was nuts! I went on to further explain to him that I'm not the type of woman to submit to ANY man, nor will I be that good little wife as described in Proberbs. I hate doing laundry, cooking, refuse to be called by his name and truly do NOT want to live with him, even if we were to marry. To my surprise, he agreed to all of the above. Still, I saw that down the road somewhere, there would be some expectation of me submitting to him. Forget it. I know that the Holy Spirit is leading my life and cannot attribute this personality of mine to the lack of the Holy Spirit. But in all fairness to me and others like me, I must say that there are woman like us that are very much in protest to any sort of submission and I will say for me that it is something that I would die first over doing. As far as our position in Church, if we are ALL equal, then why can't a woman be ordained? What job do you suppose a man does that a woman cannot do if she is called by God Himself? If God Himself has called someone, whether it is female or male, to do something, God also gives the power to that individual to do what is required of them by God's Will. I heard a pastor giving a sermon on this very topic of women being silent in the Church. The pastor explained that, at that time (Paul's time), the women and the men sat separately in the Church. However, the women were busy talking and gossiping amongst themselves and not only did that disturb the services but also this pastor explained that in those days, the prostitutes would come into the Synogogues to try to round up some business. This was last year that I heard this sermon and it made sense to me. I see many women gossip and it is sickening to say the least. Not that men don't but then again, while in Church, if I hang around the men (which I much prefer), the wives or others look upon that and will automatically think the worst. When in fact the truth be known, I much prefer hanging with the guys and can relate to the men much more so than the women. I have never been one to be a 'harriet housewife' type, nor the tupperware party type, babyshowers etc. etc.. Anyhow, to submit to men is NOT ME. Now, I surely don't mind if a man submit to me..:)) Infact, I find that alot of the men that I know are of the insecure type and count on me for security. I've never nor will I ever be the type to count on anyone, much less a man, for security. I'm a leader so they say and just cannot pretend (hypocrisy) to be otherwise. God Bless your marriage, Denise P.S. This is not a male/female issue nessesarily, but moreso a leader/follower issue. I say this because I don't submit to women either. Just forget the submitting thing,,it's NOT me. I will however end this with..I WILL SUBMIT TO GOD AND GOD ALONE. | ||
| Denisegilmore |
One added thought: I absolutely enjoy and very much count on turning to others whether they are male or female for instruction, correction, rebuking, encouragement and the like. I also can take it when I am corrected, whether that is by men or women and I listen. I don't see a gender when it comes to heeding words of wisdom and experience. I see brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus. God Bless, Denise |
