|Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2000 - 12:38 pm: || |
One of the topics I would like to discuss with all of you and to have open for new people who visit our site is grief.
How can one make such a radical lifestyle and cultural change as leaving Adventism and not confront grief? To me this seems highly improbable. Are we affectively adressing this issue in our lives or sweeping it under the rug to fester into other manifestations later on?
Yes, we have gained so much spiritually that it seems that the grieving process would only hold a minor shadow to what we have.
But we are people and loss effects us emotionally.
For myself, I have become somewhat of a distant member of the nuclear family I grew up with. Many of my childhood friends do not bother to contact me. I have lost many loved ones without the finality and ritual that death would have brought. When I do return to see my family it is like opening up the grave and starting over again.
I want to have a place to share grieving as a former as well as other things in life we are grieving over.
I wish this to be a place where others can share what helped them, ask for support for where they are now, and to post useful quotes etc
I will write more on this later but ask all of you to share in your wisdom.
|Posted on Friday, December 15, 2000 - 7:32 am: || |
One of the thngs that struck me in reading both Therese's post and MaryAnn's posts on other threads is that the grief some may experience can go two different directions.
First there is the grief of leaving behind all that is familiar to us and the loss of those things.
Then there is the grief of what could have been. As children we missed so many rights of passages in our development. While there were activites within our church that helped compensate for them, there may still be a place in our life where we feel that things are missing.
One of those things I terribly missed out on was great children's literature. I therapeutically get my fill by reading to my kids and being a reading mom at school. My kids have a glut of books in their rooms because I enjoy them as much as they do. Mike Mulligan, Paddington Bear, Thomas the Tank, Winnie the Pooh are just a few of my favorites. My favorite all time book which is out of print and if ANYONE EVER SEES IT PLEASE PLEASE buy it for me I will pay you double to have a copy of it is: BURT DOW DEEP SEA MAN by Robert McClosky. It is a parody on the Jonah and the whale story and is just a lovely lovely tale.
I never thought my own kids childhoods would help me in my grieve work but it does. Each time I particpate in their activities that little girl within me is healing.
|Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2000 - 9:42 pm: || |
I was reading this thread and can't do the psycho-babble talk. But, I did write a poem regarding something Valerie had said with regards to her childhood. I wrote this March 23, 1991, after I had moved away from my family that so hindered me to be me. Here goes:
"On days like this, when I feel like this
I allow myself to play.
The little girl who lives in me
takes over on these days.
And should you see her laughing out
and having lots of fun.
Then understand that's who I am
that I'm no longer left undone.
Now I don't fear that part of me
I embrace her with a smile.
And all of you who look upon her
treat her as a child.
Give her understanding
and allow her to be free.
And let her know you love her
as you say that you love me.
Be so kind and gentle
and hold her in your arms.
And let her know you're there for her
to protect her from all harms.
Show her she's allowed to say
all the things she thinks and feels.
That she's allowed to be just who she is
so valid and for real.
For her and I we matter much
we can't live without each one.
Oh her and I together live
and together we are one.
copyright Denise Gilmore: March 23, 1991
|Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2000 - 10:48 pm: || |
As far as 'grieving as a former', my first thought was 'former what?'. I have become a former of many things. Not just in the religious arena. Grief can either drown us with fear or give us the wings we need to fly. :)
God Bless all,
|Posted on Monday, December 18, 2000 - 4:40 am: || |
You may not do the psychobabble thing but WOW what a poem. It hits some of what I talk about in a way I could never do. It speaks of healing. It speaks of coming out of grieving over what never was with acceptance and recapturing the joy that was not given as your right in childhood.
For myself this first grieivng as a former relates to Adventism. But one can grieve as a former anything. Come January I am having on good funeral to overeating. Any ideas for a ritual ceremony to ease me through this?
Grief will drown us if we don't work through it. Issues that are not resolved with grief work will keep resurfacing in our lifes. They will be as a ball and chain keeping us down. At the end of a grieving process we should be flying. Are we flying now?
For myself I am just wrapping up some of the issues of grief in my life, I am uncovering new ones as I go.
I start this post to facilitate my own growth as well as to help others see that perhaps they need to do work in this area as well.
Once again thank you for that marvelous poem. It reminds me that my own little girl inside needs some mothering.....
|Posted on Monday, December 18, 2000 - 10:40 am: || |
Top O' the mornin' to ya Valerie,
I have just the opposite problem on the eating of food. I will forget to eat until latenight. I will go all the day, not even thinking about food and then all of a sudden, it hits! And let me tell you that when it hits and the hunger inside is great, let nobody and I mean NOBODY get in my way of eating! :)) I love to eat too but am usually too busy to take time out in the day to do so. As of late, I am eating in the middle of the daytime because I have cut back on all Bible studies and most all other activities for awhile so I can recoop. Healthwise, I'm not in the greatest shape and am having difficulty just getting through the day.
But you asked if there was any ritual that I know of that would help you in matters of overeating. I can readily think of one:
Carry your refrigerator out back, dig a giant hole in the ground and bury it. :)) joking of course. I would really like to say to you that focusing on your problem will not help you conquer it. Infact, it will make it all that much harder to cut down.
The first 2 weeks are the hardest to cut back on intake. This will give your stomach a chance to shrink back to its original size. Thus you will not feel hungry as often as you do now. Once you get through the first two weeks, it's a little simpler although there are other factors involved. Do you eat out of nervousness? Do you eat over anger, jealously, happiness, depression (this is a biggie for most), resentments and the like? These are all triggers to even the alcoholic (such as myself). There are meetings for overeaters that you could also attend. There you would meet others like yourself that are having the same difficulty and quite possibly you would find some support there.
In the meanwhile, I would let the holidays pass first as they are chalk full of foods and delicacies. Give yourself a break today and not worry about it today. As in AA, we say, one day at a time. With me it's sometimes 'one minute at a time'.
God Bless you and I will put prayers up for you too,
P.S. I'm glad you enjoyed the poem.
|Posted on Monday, December 18, 2000 - 11:44 am: || |
I grieved deeply when I left Adventism. I felt as if I were going through a divorce. I literally realized I was saying goodbye to everything I knew: professionally, socially, religiouslyůand I had nothing to replace all these things except faith that Jesus would be with me because he was clearly asking me to give everything up for him.
I am so thankful that God is faithful. He has provided support and fellowship that we could never have imagined or manipulated into existence. His own presence fills the void that I often felt even inside Adventism. God has people planned for your life! He truly does lead us into the valley of the shadowůbut the beauty is that he doesn't send us there alone; he is with us.
I praise God that he knows what we need, and if we are obedient to his leading, he is faithful to provide for us. But none of this means we won't hurt achingly! As Denise suggested above, we have only Today (see Hebrews 4!), and our job is to trust him moment by moment.
I don't mean to sound glib; this process is not easy. It's long and difficult and painful. Leaving a cult is not done overnight.
But the process is worth it, and the reality of the Lord Jesus has made it so much more than worth it! Nothing compares to living inside His saving love.
|Posted on Monday, December 18, 2000 - 12:48 pm: || |
Denise, A refridgerator is a little big. But I plan to bury a chocolate truffle a day until they are all gone. I think the one day at a time approach is prudent (it works at AA and this is so similar) and that is why one chocolate will be buried each day. It will be symbolic of my committment to go on without it.
But my stomach is aching!!!!!!
|Posted on Monday, December 18, 2000 - 1:01 pm: || |
Now Now Valerie,
Let us reason here. Before doing the extreme, such as burying that chocolate truffle, simply say goodbye to it, make a coffin of sorts, you know, like a box,,then wrap it in plain old brown paper and send it this way. I will see to its disposal. :)))
God Bless you Valerie,
|Posted on Monday, December 18, 2000 - 2:44 pm: || |
Grieving as a former adventist is not an appropriate way of putting how I feel.
Actually, I am very happy and thankful to have left the Church and have no regrets. However, I do suppose that this could be considered grief; some of the people that I very much cared for, will not have a thing to do with me. But then again, in this too, I rejoice as the Lord tells us to rejoice when, for His names sake, we are persecuted. Now there's a term that is not to often used in connection with the SDA Church. However, I have found that the SDA Church very much persecutes others. Regardless, I rejoice that our Gracious Father brought me out of that 'babylon' and into further Truth. Here a little, there a little. :)
My background has been one of mixed religions and in ALL of them, we were taught 'works'. Also, in all of them we were taught to be scared of God. And I was. I was petrified of God and just knew that I would be burning in hell one day. Now, I rejoice because the Lord sought me out and wooed me and loved me so much that my view of our God is completely different now. Now, He is not that monster that I thought He was. Now, He is my Father in Heaven who loved me so much that He died for me and He promises me that He is coming back to take me to be with Him to live forever and ever in paradise. Wow, what a great God we have! And what a day that will be to see Him!
No, no real grief, none that I'd see me having to work through. Just plain simple joy and excitement. My question now is, now where is the Lord going to lead me? But with confidence I know that I can trust Him to lead me where He suits it best for me and for His own reasons. That is what I know. God is Good and full of Love.
God Bless us everyone,
|Posted on Monday, December 18, 2000 - 7:43 pm: || |
Denise, Would I be passing my addiction on to you if I sent them? I do have two boxes, I suppose I don't need to bury them all.
I am happy for you that their is no grief in leaving the SDA church. I wished that were so for many of us.
As I said, I have lost a place in my family and many past acquaintances. Just the family dynamics alone gave a therapist a real REAL nic vacation.
You were blessed with studying your way out. I just couldn't do it anymore. I went for many years feeling lost and disconnected to God. Then many more where I couldn't pick up a Bible and read it without anxiety that I might find something in there which would force me back to SDAism.
I knew I couldn't love God they way in which I was taught; I knew intuitively that God just couldn't be that way but I had know means of knowing it truely.
So I was in a limbo for quite a while.
I am still working on grieving for my family. This is hard because the doors are not completely closed. So I am in a limbo with that situation.
I am looking forward to the time God gives me the opportunity to be a witness to my family. I am confident that it will happen, I just wished it were sooner than later.
|Posted on Monday, December 18, 2000 - 8:18 pm: || |
My dear Valerie,
You are abstained from all guilt with regard to the chocolate being sent this way. Let your heart rest knowing that I will indulge without any guilt whatsoever. Infact, maybe this will even cheer up a dismal and bleak, rainy, cloudy and dark shroud that some nights overtake me. Looking forward to BOTH boxes! :)) mmmmmm
I'm sorry that you and others are having such a hard time coming out of what you were primarily raised in. With all respect I am glad for your sake and the sake of your family that you are coming out of the cult and will one day, with the Lord on your side, help others in the same sinking boat.
In a very odd way, I've been blessed by the various denominations that I grew up with. Although I can say that upon arriving into the Church two years ago, I still had it in my mind that we were to keep all the feasts. Many of the levitical laws are still very much ingrained in my mind and I do struggle from time to time with these doctrines of the OT. Speaking of OT, Happy Hannukah! :) This was a saying of many years in my childhood so thought I'd throw that in there.
So, I'm not saying that my ride out has been a smooth transition but in it all, I have been blessed and I know too that our Lord God blesses us through it.
Keep the faith, contend for the faith.
|Posted on Monday, December 18, 2000 - 11:31 pm: || |
Hey, nobody better put down on chocolate. It's
chock full of healthful bioagents, such as
cancer-fighting antioxidants. In fact I'm going
to go search for some science right now.
As Uncle Arnie (Schwartzenegger) likes to say,
"I'LL BE BACK!"
|Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2000 - 12:20 am: || |
Gulp! I was unable to find the scientific
chocolate / cocoa bean research I had
previously read. Mea culpa!
However, I did find this:
CHOCOLATE: MYTHS AND TRUTHS
Many of the old myths about chocolate and
health and crumbling under the weight of
scientific fact. The once-prevalent believe that
something that tastes so good just can't be
good for you has given way to a more
balanced picture of chocolate and cocoa
products and their relation to health and
nutrition. Here are brief reviews of recent
findings that correct common misperceptions
of the effects of chocolate on health.
Myth: Confectionery is a major cause of tooth
Truth: Tooth decay is primarily the result of
poor oral hygiene. Dental caries (another word
for cavities) are caused by any foods
containing fermentable carbohydrates that are
left on the teeth for too long. In fact, there are
ingredients found in chocolate products that
may retard the tooth decaying process.
Myth: Chocolate is high in caffeine.
Truth: The amount of caffeine in a piece of
chocolate candy is significantly lower than that
in coffee, tea or cola drinks. For instance, a 5
oz cup of instant coffee has between 40 and
108 mg of caffeine, while a one oz milk
chocolate bar contains only 6 mg and many
confectionery items have no caffeine at all.
Myth: Confectionery has a high fat content and
will lead to weight gain.
Truth: "Candy, in moderation, can be part of
low-fat eating. In fact, an occasional sweet
treat helps you stick to a healthy eating plan."
From: Annette B. Natow, Ph.D., R.D., author of
The Fat Counter and The Fat Attack Plan.
CHOCOLATE QUESTIONS 'N' ANSWERS
Q. What is the level of cholesterol in a 1.65 oz.
bar of milk chocolate?
A. The American Heart Association
recommends that daily cholesterol intake not
exceed 300 mg. A chocolate bar is actually low
in cholesterol. A 1.65 oz. bar contains only 12
mg! A one oz piece of cheddar cheese
contains 30 mg of cholesterol - more than
double the amount found in a chocolate bar.
Chocolate and Salt (the Sodium Element of
the Sodium Chloride Molecule):
Q. What is the level of sodium in a one oz milk
A. According to the National Research Council
of the National Academy of Sciences, the
maximum Recommended Daily Allowance
(RDA) for sodium is 1,100 to 3,300 mg daily. A
1.5 oz milk chocolate bar contains 41 mg,
while the same size dark chocolate bar
contains only 5 mg On the other hand, a 1.5 oz
serving of iced devil's food cake has a
whopping 241 mg - many times more than
Chocolate and Fat:
Q. How much fat is there in a 1.5 oz. chocolate
A. Health professionals and nutritionists
suggest that calories from fat should account
for no more than 30% of your daily caloric
intake. A 1.5 oz. milk chocolate bar contains
13 grams of fat; a dark chocolate bar of the
same weight contains 12.
Chocolate and Acne: No Link
Over the past two decades, clinical studies
have exonerated chocolate as a cause or
exacerbating factor in the development or
persistence of acne. In fact, many
dermatologists doubt that diet plays any
significant role in acne.
At the University of Missouri, student
volunteers with mild to moderate acne each
consumed nearly 20 ounces of chocolate over
a 48 hour period. Examination of lesions on
the fifth day of the test and again on the
seventh day showed no new lesions other
than those that might be expected based upon
the usual variations the subjects had exhibited
during several weeks of observation prior to
In a research study at the University of
Pennsylvania School of Medicine, a group of
65 subjects were fed chocolate bars
containing nearly ten times the amount of
chocolate liquor as a normal 1.5 oz
commercially available chocolate bar. A
control group ate a bar that tasted like
chocolate, but actually contained no chocolate
liquor. At the conclusion of the test, the
average acne condition of those eating the
chocolate was virtually identical to that of the
controls, who had eaten the imitation bars.
MORE CHOCOLATE ANSWERS FROM
HEALTH SCIENCE SOURCES
Chocolate and Allergy:
It is possible for a person to be allergic to any
food, including chocolate. But recent evidence
suggests that allergy to chocolate may be
The actual incidence of allergic sensitivity to
chocolate is far less common than positive
reactions to skin scratch tests would seem to
indicate. In at least one double-blind study to
determine the correlation positive skin tests
for chocolate allergy and the manifestation of
clinically observable symptoms, researchers
could find only one patient out of a possible
500 who showed both a positive response to
the skin test and an objective clinical reaction
after eating chocolate.
To confirm food allergy or food sensitivity, a
"challenge" of the food in question is
administered. To yield accurate results, the
challenge should be conducted under
double-blind conditions; that is, neither the
investigator nor the patient knows in advance
whether the food administered is the
suspected substance or a placebo. This
allows for objective evaluation of clinical
According to S. Allan Bock, M.D., a researcher
in food allergy at the National Jewish Center
for Immunology and Respiratory Medicine,
evaluation of hundreds of patients at that
institution has shown no confirmed allergic
reaction to chocolate during double-blind
Caffeine and Theobromine in Chocolate:
Caffeine and theobromine belong to a group
of substances known as methylxanthines.
Caffeine occurs naturally in coffee, tea, cola
and, to some degree, cocoa beans. It may
also be added to cola drinks and is a
component of certain over-the- counter and
prescription medications. Theobromine is
found in cocoa beans; tea contains trace
Chocolate and Caffeine: No Known Health
The amount of caffeine ingested when people
eat chocolate in normal quantities is very
small. One ounce of milk chocolate, for
example, contains 6 mg of caffeine, little more
than the amount found in a cup of
decaffeinated coffee. Moreover, there have
been no reports in the scientific literature of
any health problems among children or adults
as a result of the caffeine consumed in
Theobromine in Chocolate:
Although theobromine is chemically related to
caffeine, it lacks caffeine's stimulant effect on
the central nervous system (CNS). In fact,
theobromine is virtually inert as a CNS
Despite the weakness of theobromine's effect
on the brain, many people have mistakenly
assumed that it is effective in warding off
fatigue and sleep, especially when it is
consumed in combination with caffeine, as in
To test this assumption, researchers
compared the effect of caffeine, theobromine
and a placebo in a clinical study. They found
that theobromine administered in a dose of
500 mg (the amount of theobromine in
approximately 11 oz of milk chocolate
consumed in one sitting) did not increase
pulse rate significantly more than the placebo.
Caffeine, when compared to theobromine and
the placebo, produced significant CNS
In a double-blind clinical study, subjects
ingested measured quantities of caffeine and
theobromine, separately and together, at
random. Caffeine altered the subjects' own
estimates of the time it took to fall asleep, as
well as the soundness of sleep, in a
dose-dependent fashion. A dose of 300 mg. of
theobromine, however, had no detectable
effect on sleep. When administered in
combination with caffeine, theobromine
neither increased nor decreased the sleep
effects of caffeine.
Chocolate and Dental Caries: A Bum Rap
Tooth decay has become less of a problem
for American children over the last 25 years.
Between 1960 and 1980 the incidence of
cavities dropped by 50%. Today, one-third of
all Americans of college age have never had a
single cavity, thanks largely to fluoride
delivered in water systems, toothpastes and
professional fluoride treatments.
Fluoride, good oral hygiene, and professional
check-ups and prophylactic treatments are
keys to minimizing the incidence of tooth
decay. Diet is another factor.
It is widely accepted that all foods containing
"fermentable carbohydrate" have the potential
to contribute to caries formation. Fermentable
carbohydrate is present in most starches and
all sugars, including those that occur naturally
in foods and those added in processed foods.
The frequency and duration of tooth exposure
to fermentable carbohydrate have been
identified as a factor in caries.
Although chocolate contains fermentable
carbohydrates, a number of dental research
studies suggest that chocolate may be less
apt to promote tooth decay than has been
Research at the Forsyth Dental Center in
Boston has shown that chocolate has the
ability to offset the acid-producing potential of
the sugar it contains. Acid, produced by certain
oral bacteria that digest, or "ferment", sugars,
may damage tooth enamel and cause decay.
Other theories have been advanced to explain
the fact that chocolate appears to be less
cariogenic (cavity-producing) than its
fermentable carbohydrate content would
seem to indicate. In a study conducted at the
Eastman Dental Center, certain chocolate
products tested were found to be among the
snack foods contributing least to tooth decay.
The researchers reported that milk
chocolate's protein, calcium and phosphate
content may provide protective effects on tooth
enamel. In addition, because of its natural fat
content, chocolate clears the mouth relatively
faster than other confections; this is important
because the time fermentable carbohydrate
remains n contact with tooth surfaces has a
bearing on the food's cariogenic potential.
Chocolate and Weight Control: Another Bum
Contrary to popular stereotype, most
overweight people do not eat excessive
amounts of cake, cookies, confections or
other foods containing sugar. Their sugar
intake tends, in fact, to be below average.
More important in controlling weight is the total
number of calories consumed each day and
the amount of energy expended in physical
activity. Overweight children, for example, are
generally less active than those of normal
weight; thus, they may remain obese even
when their caloric intake is reasonable or
Moreover, many people overestimate the
calories in chocolate. A 1.5 oz milk chocolate
bar contains approximately 220 calories, low
enough to incorporate into a weight control
diet. The occasional chocolate confection may
also reduce the possibility of severe bingeing,
which can occur as a result of feeling deprived
of highly satisfying foods such as chocolate.
SOURCE OF THIS INFO: Chocolate Facts on
Health and Nutrition for Educators and Health
Professionals, published by the Chocolate
Manufacturers Association, and The Sweet
Truth About Confectionery, published by the
National Confectioners Association.
|Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2000 - 12:36 am: || |
Eureka! I found it! At least a bit. Maybe I can
find more later. Here's what I found about the
healthful properties found in chocolate (cocoa
A 1997 study conducted at the University of
Scranton has found high levels of
polyphenolic antioxidants in cocoa products,
mainly cocoa powder and dark chocolate.
ACRI is sponsoring new research at the
Pennsylvania State University to determine
any potential beneficial effects of these cocoa
compounds in humans.
The American Cocoa Research Institute
(ACRI): a non-profit 501(c)6 organization that
was founded in 1947. It is the research arm of
the Chocolate Manufacturers Association of
America (CMA) and is devoted to research in
all scientific areas related to cocoa and
chocolate. ACRI Members include some of the
world's largest chocolate manufacturers |
Members |. ACRI's research network is global
and has contacts in most cacao producing
countries. Currently, ACRI sponsors cacao
research in a number of growing countries
including Brazil, Costa Rica, Ghana, Trinidad,
Malaysia, Cote d'Ivoire and Indonesia.
|Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2000 - 12:56 am: || |
Chocolate and EGW:
She doesn't use the word "chocolate" in all her
published writings, despite chocolate's
caffeine content. She does use the word
cocoa, from which chocolate is made. But she
pegs the WRONG SOURCE. She says a palm
tree produces the fruit. It's not. It's an evergree
tree that grows cocoa fruit. Here are the
Our steamer cast anchor off Apia, which is
situated on the island of Upolo, and is the
principal town of the Samoan Group. The
harbor or bay of Apia is a beautiful expanse of
water, shut in by coral reefs, over which the
surf is constantly breaking. The island is
clothed in the richest and most luxuriant
verdure. The mountains rise almost from the
water's edge; COCOA PALMS grow all along
the shore and far up the mountain sides....
--Ellen G. White, Bible Echo and Signs of the
Times, January 1, 1892, paragraph 9. Article
Title: From America to Australia
We saw ... COCOA PALMS laden with the
brown, heavy-looking fruit.... --Ellen G. White,
Bible Echo and Signs of the Times, January 1,
1892, paragraph 4. Article Title: From America
Sigh! How could we have been so dumb as to
trust in this woman?
|Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2000 - 6:58 am: || |
Max, Those are all wonderful tributes to chocolate, I just wished I had the moderation part intact. I agree that in moderation it is good for me, but there is no moderation here.
So could I have my cake and eat it too? Or do I have to do the cold turkey thing?
I did not have any all day yesterday then my son came up with this highly creative way above age appropriate assignment his teacher gave the kids yesterday. Told them it would take 20 minutes, HA! He was expected to write lyrics to a familiar tune and the lyrics had to be on the history of China's cultural identity. I couldn't even think of helping him until 6 truffles later. Wow did that get the creative juices going. First I had to teach him stuff I knew nothing about, Thank God for the internet. Then get him through writing the jingle. TWO HOURS later we had one to the tune Here comes the sun by the Beatles.
My point is that the chemical substances in the chocolate were my jumpstart. It was like they cleared my tired brain and got me on a creative track. Joseph was downing the stuff too. Interestingly I have heard that chocolate works much like the antidepressants which work on the serotonin reuptake chanels.
But I have to confess I REALLY REALLY like chocolate and could figure out a way other than cold turkey I would. Presently what disturbs me is that I seek it out as a source of energy and chemical lift and also the weight issue.
I dont know how we could have been so dumb. Probably lack of education for a start. I wouldn't have known a cocoa tree from a palm tree growing up among many other things. But I look back and sigh also.
Good to here from you Max,
|Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2000 - 11:18 am: || |
Valerie, Denise and all,
I'm going to quote Romans 14 (NIV) with a few
very slight changes:
Accept the one whose faith is weak, without
passing judgment on disputable matters. One
person's faith allows him/her to eat
CHOCOLATE, but another person, whose faith
is weak, avoids it. The one who eats
CHOCOLATE must not look down on the one
who doesn't, and the one who does not
eat it must not condemn the one who does, for
God has accepted him/her. Who are you to
judge someone else's servant? To his/her
own master s/he stands or falls. And
s/he will stand, for the Lord is able to make
Each Christian should be fully convinced in
her/his own mind. The one who eats
CHOCOLATE, eats to the Lord, for s/he gives
thanks to God. For none of us lives to her/
himself alone and none of us dies to her/
himself alone. If we live, we live to the Lord;
and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether
we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
For this very reason, Christ died and returned
to life so that he might be the Lord of both the
dead and the living. You, then, why do you
judge your sibling in Christ? Or why do you
look down on your sibling? For we all will
stand before God's judgment seat. It is written:
'As surely as I live, says the Lord, every knee
will bow before me; every tongue will confess
So then, each of us will give an account of
her/himself to God.
Therefore let us stop passing judgment on
one another. Instead, make up your mind not
to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your
sibling's way. As one who is in the Lord
Jesus, I, Paul, am fully convinced that
CHOCOLATE is not unhealthful in itself. But if
anyone regards CHOCOLATE as unhealthful,
then for her/him it is unhealthful. If your sibling
is distressed because you eat CHOCOLATE,
you are no longer eating it in love. Do not by
eating CHOCOLATE destroy your sibling for
whom Christ died. Do not allow the fact that
you consider CHOCOLATE healthful to be
spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is
not a matter of eating CHOCOLATE or not,
but of righteousness, peace and joy in the
Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves
Christ in this way is pleasing to God and
approved by others.
Let us therefore make every effort to do what
leads to peace and to building each other up
in the faith. Do not destroy the work of God for
the sake of CHOCOLATE. Yes, CHOCOLATE
has been scientifically demonstrated to be
healthful in moderation, but it is wrong to eat it
if doing so causes someone else to stumble.
It is better not to eat CHOCOLATE or to do
anything else that will cause your sibling-in-
Christ to fall.
So whatever you believe about CHOCOLATE,
keep it between yourself and God. Blessed is
the person who does not condemn himself
because he likes and eats CHOCOLATE in
moderation. But the one who has doubts
about it is condemned if s/he eats it, because
her/his eating CHOCOLATE is not from faith;
and everything that does not come from faith
Val, Denise, George and all, my love for you is
mediated through Christ.
Max of the Cross
|Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2000 - 11:25 am: || |
Max, That was entirely creative and clever. And good for a bit of a chuckle also. And I agree wholeheartedly. Chocolate is no more of a sin than wine, I just wished I could enjoy it in moderation. Perhaps someday I will. (I know I am not ready to give it a good funeral)
Ditto to you Max Denise and George. You are all very dear to me. We will from time to time disagree; and words on paper sometimes strike more harshly than if we were face to face. Let us keep the conversations going.
|Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2000 - 12:20 pm: || |
I wish I could import a pic of the cocoa fruit --
from which cocoa powder CHOCOLATE is
made -- I found on the I-net. It's a smallish,
football-shaped, yellow fruit that hangs
straight down from a tropical evergreen cocoa
(or cacao) tree, which is native to South
It is of more than passing interest that Ellen G.
White in her island tours around Australia
confused PALM COCONUTS with COCONUT
FRUIT. The cocoa tree is a true tree. The
palm, like the bamboo, is not a true tree. And
the cocoa fruit bears absolutely no
resemblance to the coconut. Only the name is
similar: The word "coconut" compared to the
word "cocoa"! This is the glaringly obvious
source of this woman's confused mistake.
Here's the truth: Unlike the coconut palm, the
cacao (also called cocoa) IS a true tree. It is a
South American evergreen tree. It's scientific
name is Theobroma cacao. The literal
meaning of the word "Theobroma" is "food of
God." Theobroma cacao is a member of the
Sterculiacae tree family. And all chocolate
products and other cocoa products, such as
cocoa butter, come from the seeds of its fruit.
These seeds contain considerable vegetable
fat. To make the cocoa powder from which all
chocolate products come these seeds (called
"cacao beans" or "cocoa beans") are dried
and partly fermented then ground up into the
powder. You've noticed from tasting chocolate
baking powder, that natural chocolate is NOT
sweet. Sugar must be added to make the
German chocolate cake and Baskin Robbins
chocolate fudge icecream that we love so
My point, though, is not fact-finding about
chocolate. It is this:
Ellen G. White cannot be trusted for guidance
in matters of health any more than she can be
trusted for guidance in matters of faith and
moral living. Look to Scripture alone for
guidance in faith and morals. And -- in my
opinion, at least -- look to "science truly so
called" for guidance in matters of health and
Max of the Cross