| Author | Message | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Max, I'm still trying to formulate my thoughts!;-) George came up with a good question and I certainly don't mind talking about it and working it out on this forum;-) As you know, I have NO problem asking questions and discussing things. You have brought up some very good points and I have in my little pointed head some comments and questions. They just have not come up to the service yet except for one. This conscience thingy we are talking about has to obviously be talking about Christians that are under the guidence of the Holy Spirit. (What I'm not clear in my own mind about is if this would apply to those that think they are under a True Gospel but are instead under a False Gospel?) The problem here is that one can start judging who is and isn't under the guidence of the Holy Spirit! Till I can say that "I" am totally and completely following the guidence of the Holy Spirit ALL THE TIME, I CAN NOT AND SHOULD NOT judge another. Since my sinful, human, carnal nature will NEVER be TOTALLY compliant to the Holy Spirit, I will never be able to judge another's motive. I just can't see where the guy mowing down the JWs applies to this concepting? BTW....What page number does chapter 3 of a three chapter book start if all three chapters have equal pages? On second thought.....don't answer that;-)))))))! Still thinking'-(......Maryann | ||
| Maryann |
Hi George, You asked: " What's this all about? I did find out last night that I need to learn to talk different and live different so I can enjoy heaven!!!!!!!!!! Sheeeeeeeeese! My head hurts;-(" THINK!!!!!!'-((((((((((( MOM'S HERE! And we have been talking about salvation, grace, heaven, etc! :):):).....Sis | ||
| Max |
Hi Maryann, Thanks for your questions. I must repeat I am not "the answer man" and refuse to be. Scripture alone is "the answer" and all human opinions, theories, bright ideas, etc., must be tested by Scripture alone. Sooo, having said that..... ^^This conscience thingy we are talking about has to obviously be talking about Christians that are under the guidence of the Holy Spirit.^^ Christians under the guidance of the Holy Spirit are like the New Testament Christians throughout the Epistles of Paul and the other apostles. Take the Corinthians, for example. In the first chapter Paul calls them "saints," and yes he does too mean it. Yet they were quarreling, treating the poor with distain, etc. One of them was having sex with his step mother. Paul said, "Throw this wicked man out of your fellowship." To say that their consciences were always 100% correct just because they were under the guidance of the Holy Spirit and just because Paul called them saints is stretching matters a bit too far, don't you think? I would appreciate a response to this before I go further on with your questions and observations. Blessings always, Max of the Cross | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Hello George, You asked a question something like this: Do I believe that our conscience will tell us of everyone one of our sins? That's a very good question. I would like to say yes to that but then again, comes in the mix of teachings of men that were taught to me as a younger person. In this mix, I have or had a mountain of sins that was forever first and foremost in my mind at every minute of the day. What a wretched human being I was internally/spiritually speaking! This question I have often wondered about too. But here is the good part that I've recently realized. That our God is trustworthy and if He deems it necessary for me to realize, or bring to my conscience, a sin or of many sins, then He not only can but will do just that. There is a saying that I've heard and it is "God only gives us what we can handle." I refer you to the time when Jesus was about to depart from earth, after His resurrection, and He tells His disciples that there are many more things He would like to tell them, but that they could not bare them right now. Off the top of my head I can't remember what Gospel it is in, but somebody out there knows which one. I believe that this same God, Jesus Christ, in Spirit indwelling us, only shows us or brings to our conscience the sins we need to look at, at this time. If I were shown all the sins I needed to work on or committed today, I would be overwhelmed with grief and I cannot believe that Jesus died and is risen so that we can live in grief. I believe the Gospel is the good news and it is something to rejoice over, not grieve over. Sinful we are, in most all that we do. Our conscience, IF it is directed by the Holy Spirit, will show us things in ourselves that we may not always want to see or know, but realize that we must be truthful about our actions or non-actions. If we are NOT lead by the Holy Spirit, I also believe that we can feel some guilt but not to the point of rectifying our actions. My typing out this post, for all I know, could be a sin. But my conscience does not tell me it is. Does that mean it isn't? Not necessarily. Perhaps God in His wisdom wants me to type all my errors of thought so that I may be instructed otherwise. Who can say how God works. His work is mysterious to the utmost. My conscience tells me many things and as I have eluded to, some are teachings of men and not necessarily sins afterall. This is what I am currently trying to figure out in my life. What sins, brought to my conscience are actual sins according to God and what sins are actually the supposed sins taught by men. This is a hard endeavor to figure all this out. But, God left us a great letter. It is the Bible and in it there are instructions as to how to better our lives of ourselves and of others. I refer to His letter to us most of the time. Especially if I am convicted that saluting the flag of America is a sin and yet I have never read that in the Bible as a sin. But there are many Scriptures telling us and warning us about idols, and allegiance to any other thing or human being. So, in things such as this, I must use my reasoning that God gave to me. God did not give us a brain and then instruct us not to use it. He gave us a brain to use. So, in saluting a flag or pledging allegiance to it, I can honestly say that, in my heart, God Almighty is my Salvation, my Rock, my Fortress and my Wonderful Counsellor that will come to redeem me. Not the flag. So, with a conscience that has been scarred by teachings instilled as a young person, I dare to defy those teachings and pledge allegiance to the flag, as I know whom I serve and so does God. He knows our hearts George. When it come to my medications, I have this same thing. I was taught and brought up against medications. But, I also read in the Bible that God gave us men of learning and Luke was a doctor, also Jesus healed people. Should I cast away doctors and medications because some denomination says that it's wrong? For me, the answer is an obvious, no. To throw away what God has abundantly supplied does go against my conscience. For me, in this short walk as a believer and follower of Jesus Christ, I can say and sing it too, that He is teaching me but as in Isaiah, 'here a little, there a little'. Not ALL at once. I would be overwhelmed as I said before. Remember that God takes us where we are and then leads us. He is our Shepard and He is tender and He knows you and me and everyone on this forum and in the world. He knows the best ways to keep us learning and keep us on the right path. We know nothing but to follow in our best effort. The JWs let their children die because of this blood transfusion ordeal. Do I judge them? Yes. They deny the Trinity and cannot be true followers but are decieved. I pray for them all. We must believe in the real Jesus, not the psuedojesus as many do. The way to find the real Jesus is to read His Letter that He left you, talk to Him, Pray to Him and use those brains that He created in you for you to make use of. How do we know if we are indwelled by the Holy Spirit? Well, again I refer you to the book of John wherein He assures us that we are the children of God and gives us examples of who is not. We don't have a spectacular feeling necessarily, moreover, it is a joy that simply rests our minds on most all other matters. Does this mean that we never wonder? Absolutely not. If we didn't ask questions, like Nichodemus (sp), we are not sincere. Even the most outward jaded person on earth has questions. They may never show their interest or ever ask a question but I can assure you that at night, when they lay in the bed or alone on the beach, they have thoughts that are deep and although they cannot express them to others, God is hearing their heart and God will do His will. My teachings growing up were quite strange. A mixed bag of nuts but in the end, a complete whole within but upon going to Church, I found complications due to what the pastor would tell me or others would tell me or what was forbidden to do or what we are supposed to do. Yet, the Bible is quite simple if we stop complicating His Words. Your gut will tell you of danger, tell you of something being amiss, tell you of peace. The inner man, the Holy Spirit tells us and guides us and teaches us and consoles us. We can listen or chose not to listen. For we are carnal and sin for us is natural. But, what do we want? Eternal life with Jesus Christ or Eternal life in hell? This is the choice. Chose this day whom you will serve. Our carnal nature and that of teachings of men or our Creator, Savior, Redeemer, our Refuge our Father? God Bless and I will speak more on this as I re-read some of the posts as there are many. Denise (the berean) | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Hello George, You asked a question something like this: Do I believe that our conscience will tell us of everyone one of our sins? That's a very good question. I would like to say yes to that but then again, comes in the mix of teachings of men that were taught to me as a younger person. In this mix, I have or had a mountain of sins that was forever first and foremost in my mind at every minute of the day. What a wretched human being I was internally/spiritually speaking! This question I have often wondered about too. But here is the good part that I've recently realized. That our God is trustworthy and if He deems it necessary for me to realize, or bring to my conscience, a sin or of many sins, then He not only can but will do just that. There is a saying that I've heard and it is "God only gives us what we can handle." I refer you to the time when Jesus was about to depart from earth, after His resurrection, and He tells His disciples that there are many more things He would like to tell them, but that they could not bare them right now. Off the top of my head I can't remember what Gospel it is in, but somebody out there knows which one. I believe that this same God, Jesus Christ, in Spirit indwelling us, only shows us or brings to our conscience the sins we need to look at, at this time. If I were shown all the sins I needed to work on or committed today, I would be overwhelmed with grief and I cannot believe that Jesus died and is risen so that we can live in grief. I believe the Gospel is the good news and it is something to rejoice over, not grieve over. Sinful we are, in most all that we do. Our conscience, IF it is directed by the Holy Spirit, will show us things in ourselves that we may not always want to see or know, but realize that we must be truthful about our actions or non-actions. If we are NOT lead by the Holy Spirit, I also believe that we can feel some guilt but not to the point of rectifying our actions. My typing out this post, for all I know, could be a sin. But my conscience does not tell me it is. Does that mean it isn't? Not necessarily. Perhaps God in His wisdom wants me to type all my errors of thought so that I may be instructed otherwise. Who can say how God works. His work is mysterious to the utmost. My conscience tells me many things and as I have eluded to, some are teachings of men and not necessarily sins afterall. This is what I am currently trying to figure out in my life. What sins, brought to my conscience are actual sins according to God and what sins are actually the supposed sins taught by men. This is a hard endeavor to figure all this out. But, God left us a great letter. It is the Bible and in it there are instructions as to how to better our lives of ourselves and of others. I refer to His letter to us most of the time. Especially if I am convicted that saluting the flag of America is a sin and yet I have never read that in the Bible as a sin. But there are many Scriptures telling us and warning us about idols, and allegiance to any other thing or human being. So, in things such as this, I must use my reasoning that God gave to me. God did not give us a brain and then instruct us not to use it. He gave us a brain to use. So, in saluting a flag or pledging allegiance to it, I can honestly say that, in my heart, God Almighty is my Salvation, my Rock, my Fortress and my Wonderful Counsellor that will come to redeem me. Not the flag. So, with a conscience that has been scarred by teachings instilled as a young person, I dare to defy those teachings and pledge allegiance to the flag, as I know whom I serve and so does God. He knows our hearts George. When it come to my medications, I have this same thing. I was taught and brought up against medications. But, I also read in the Bible that God gave us men of learning and Luke was a doctor, also Jesus healed people. Should I cast away doctors and medications because some denomination says that it's wrong? For me, the answer is an obvious, no. To throw away what God has abundantly supplied does go against my conscience. For me, in this short walk as a believer and follower of Jesus Christ, I can say and sing it too, that He is teaching me but as in Isaiah, 'here a little, there a little'. Not ALL at once. I would be overwhelmed as I said before. Remember that God takes us where we are and then leads us. He is our Shepard and He is tender and He knows you and me and everyone on this forum and in the world. He knows the best ways to keep us learning and keep us on the right path. We know nothing but to follow in our best effort. The JWs let their children die because of this blood transfusion ordeal. Do I judge them? Yes. They deny the Trinity and cannot be true followers but are decieved. I pray for them all. We must believe in the real Jesus, not the psuedojesus as many do. The way to find the real Jesus is to read His Letter that He left you, talk to Him, Pray to Him and use those brains that He created in you for you to make use of. How do we know if we are indwelled by the Holy Spirit? Well, again I refer you to the book of John wherein He assures us that we are the children of God and gives us examples of who is not. We don't have a spectacular feeling necessarily, moreover, it is a joy that simply rests our minds on most all other matters. Does this mean that we never wonder? Absolutely not. If we didn't ask questions, like Nichodemus (sp), we are not sincere. Even the most outward jaded person on earth has questions. They may never show their interest or ever ask a question but I can assure you that at night, when they lay in the bed or alone on the beach, they have thoughts that are deep and although they cannot express them to others, God is hearing their heart and God will do His will. My teachings growing up were quite strange. A mixed bag of nuts but in the end, a complete whole within but upon going to Church, I found complications due to what the pastor would tell me or others would tell me or what was forbidden to do or what we are supposed to do. Yet, the Bible is quite simple if we stop complicating His Words. Your gut will tell you of danger, tell you of something being amiss, tell you of peace. The inner man, the Holy Spirit tells us and guides us and teaches us and consoles us. We can listen or chose not to listen. For we are carnal and sin for us is natural. But, what do we want? Eternal life with Jesus Christ or Eternal life in hell? This is the choice. Chose this day whom you will serve. Our carnal nature and that of teachings of men or our Creator, Savior, Redeemer, our Refuge our Father? God Bless and I will speak more on this as I re-read some of the posts as there are many. Denise (the berean) | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Sorry about the double post again. | ||
| George |
Max From the way you are talking we could never trust our conscience. George | ||
| George |
Maryann Being a person that is not "uder the Holy Spirit" I can tell you the conscience still works. I have not shot my neighbor or done any of the other dispicable things I have thought of. Try abain. George | ||
| George |
maryann Nuf said :-))))))))) George | ||
| George |
Denise No onehas ever been able to grasp and sort out my thoughts as well as you. Thanks. But now I must go to work. Talk to you later. George | ||
| Max |
George, Ellen White said to trust your conscience, and I have grown very distrustful of her counsels. Here's an example: "What voice will you acknowledge as the voice of God? What power has the Lord in reserve to correct your errors, and show you your course as it is? What power to work in the church? If you refuse to believe until every shadow of uncertainty and every possibility of doubt is removed, you will never believe. The doubt that demands perfect knowledge, will never yield to faith. Faith rests upon evidence, not demonstration. The Lord requires us to obey the voice of duty, when there are other voices all around us urging us to pursue an opposite course. It requires earnest attention from us to distinguish the voice which speaks for God. We must resist and conquer inclination, and OBEY the voice of CONSCIENCE, without parleying or compromise, lest its promptings cease, and will and impulse control. The word of the Lord comes to us all who have not resisted his Spirit by determining not to hear and obey. This voice is heard in warnings, in counsels, in reproof. It is the Lord's message of light to his people. If we wait for louder calls, or better opportunities, the light may be withdrawn, and we left in darkness. . . . " --Ellen G. White, Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, August 30, 1906, paragraph 15, Article Title: Correct Views Concerning the Testimonies (A Reply to an Inquirer) It's true that I don't trust my own conscience. I trust the Word of God alone, and that Word is Christ Jesus. | ||
| Max |
To all: When I was an "earliteen" I sneaked out of the house one Sunday afternoon and went to see the movie "Old Yeller" at the neighborhood theatre. As I paid my fare and entered my conscience told me that if a fire broke out and I was burned alive that I would never enter heaven but would be eternally lost. I boasted to my younger brother what I had done, and of course he went directly to Mother and tattled. She came down on me hard. I don't remember what punishment I got, but believe me it was severe. Years later I learned from this same younger brother that at about that time Mother and Dad had disguised themselves. Mother with a bubushka. Dad with some farmer hat that a minister wouldn't wear (he was an ordained one). They went to see "Gone With the Wind" at a drive-in movie theatre. My Question: Do I think now that I was sinning in disobeying my conscience? My Answer: Do I think I would be sinning now if I rented "Old Yeller" from Blockbuster Video and watched it in the privacy of my own home? No, I do not think so. No sin now, no sin then. Quite the opposite: What I did back then was an act of freedom in Christ, though I knew it not at the time. I know it NOW, praise God! Max of the Cross | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Max! I'm so happy with this converstion!!! I have marked the thread and dates so I can get back to it later as I probably wont get back to this for a week;-((((( This conversation is going right to the heart of where I wanted to go and explore!!!!:;-) Soooooo, I hope to pick this up later if you are willing;-) Tickled.....Maryann | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Good Morning Max, If you will notice, I have had trial in separating sin, as taught to me by men and false doctrine, and sin, as taught to me by the Holy Spirit. We are given a new mind and a new heart upon 'Believing'. The mind is where your conscience is. It may in your heart as well. As the two go hand in hand. What the mind thinks, the heart follows, what the heart feels, the mind thinks. Or at least in most all peoples that I know of. I cannot serparate my conscience to say that it is in my heart only. I cannot separate my conscience to say that it is in my mind only. Together, I have a mind and a heart. These together, work together. My mind is able, most times, to discern Truth from error. But my heart, oh my heart sometimes will take over my thoughts. Infact, if I am hurt by someone, it is my heart that has been hurt. But, does it stay in the heart? I say no. I say this because as soon as my heart feels the initial hurt from someone, my mind begins to try to rationalize why it is that they did what they did. Or my mind will go back in time to some remembered hurt that is similar. During this process, my heart can hurt but, I cannot follow what my mind tells me to do, and that is, tell that person off! Instead, I feel the hurt of my heart, but my mind is on thoughts of God. I find that this mind will rule what it is that I do, not my heart. In this case that is. Now, if I am challenged by someone in a logical debate. It is my mind that gets riled up. But my heart has been turned to a heart of flesh and my heart will not allow my mind to say, what it is that I'm thinking. Which sometimes, could very often wound another. So, I see that together they work. One overpowering the other at times. Oft times too, they are in the same mode and this is most comforting and peaceful in all circumstances. But, if I allowed my conscience to NOT rule me, there would be alot of people offended by what I say and what I do. My conscience is directed and spoken to by the Holy Spirit. Now I could easily ignore what my conscience (Holy Spirit) says to me, but to do this, I can assure you that I am nobody to mess with. I have a past and if not for my conscience, this past would become my present life and a whole mess of people would be hurt. Not just emotionally but physically as well. I base my thoughts and my actions on what my conscience tells me. I do believe that our consciences are, if we are indwelled by the Holy Spirit and we LISTEN to Him, are the help we need to continue in the faith and fight off the carnal nature that so besets us. As to sins of the conscience that were imposed upon me by pastors, priests, church heirarchy and the pew sitters, I have them too. BUT, I have a mind indwelled by the Holy Spirit and chose to Listen to HIM. He knows our thoughts, He directs then too if we let Him. The Holy Spirit is not in my big toe. The Holy Spirit is in my mind (conscience) and heart (feelings). The Holy Spirit gives us guidance thankfully. If I only used the Bible, I would simply ignore things like my cat, my bird. Infact, I would more than likely have the ASPCA called on me. Yet no where in the Bible, NT, are we told to treat our animals with love, to care for them, to feed them or even care if they have attention. Yet, I do all of these things, knowing that God gave these blessings to me and that these creatures are God's creatures. So I know too, that He, God, is pleased with how I do care for them. Another example would be, if my neighbor comes banging on my door ignoring my 'do not disturb' sign, and he is needing assistance in getting a can of food from his top shelf and he cannot reach it and so needs me, do I get indignant about the fact that he just stepped over my boundary by ignoring my sign and begin my yelling at him? Or do I ignore what my mind is telling me and listen to my heart and go, get the can of food he wanted down, and do this with a smile, then come back to hibernation? I will say that no place are we told in the Bible that we are to take people stepping on us, yet, I allow it as I'm directed to love by the Holy Spirit and to be a good witness for God Himself. If I were to say, 'well, the Bible tells me not to cast my pearls before the swine and the Bible says that I don't have to take this kind of treatment, I wouldn't be much of a witness for our Lord in this case. I have to Glorify God in ALL that I do, to my utmost. This is our commission as well as teach and make disciples of all men and women and children. The Holy Spirit gives me power to love not just men and women and children but animals too. There was a time in my life, where many people feared me. I was a danger to society and still can be if I didn't LISTEN to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit directs me to LOVE. He directs me to UNDERSTANDING, He directs me to do the right thing. Oh I know that the Holy Spirit has been indwelling me for some time as I can look back and see that. But I didn't always listen to Him as often as I do now. Not that I'm perfectly obedient these days either. Sometimes, my carnal nature will take over and THIS is what baffles me. How can one day, I be forgiving, loving, tender, caring, conscience of others needs etc. and the very next day, I could care less and have an attitude problem? The answer to this is that on that day that I have my attitude problem, I have CHOSEN not to listen to my conscience (Holy Spirit). I have CHOSEN to not let my heart (feelings) get in my way either. Instead, I am a bear. In no way will it ever compare to my past but it is still everpresent nonetheless. It matters to me where you think the Holy Spirit indwells. In your mind (conscience), heart (feelings) or in say, your big toe. I have seen a good many people on television or in some Churches that are rolling on the floor and babbling in a language that is not a language of this earth that claim this to be the Holy Spirit. I have cried and still do when while singing a song, my heart is touched by the Holy Spirit. He creates in us a new mind and and right Spirit. So to this I say, we are indwelled by the Holy Spirit to direct our thoughts and our actions. To direct not only our thoughts but to protect our feelings sometimes, or our heart. Ellen White is who you have quoted and I am hoping that somewhere inside of you, you can stop the distain for her long enough to see some truth in what she may have said in that quote. I am with you for the most part on the teachings of Ellen White. I too have this anger deep within, having seen what it has done to others and myself but I must be honest and say, that I give credit where credit is due. Do you believe God can work through the worst of people? Of course you do, you have to if you read the Bible. In the case here with EGW, God just may have used her to write what she wrote, if indeed she even really wrote it. Not that I'm doubting you but, she is a plagarist and we all know that. Either way, I believe our consciences are a very good guide in our lives. Our consciences, indwelled by the HOlY SPIRIT keep us loving and forgiving and He gives us that peace that surpasses all understanding. That peace is within both mind and heart. To sort out what was taught us by men and what is taught us by God, I refer to the Bible as my referrence point and I also pray. God will direct us and is directing us, if we allow ourselves to follow His leading. For now, this is all I have to say, I think, on this matter. God Bless you Max of the Cross, Denise, your sister in Christ Jesus | ||
| Max |
Thank you, Denise, and God continue to bless you. We don't agree on everything, but I do think the Holy Spirit indwells both of us -- minds, hearts, consciences, big toes, molecular structures of the lungs, everything -- and therefore we can love one another in Christ. May the Lord bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you and give you peace, Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
To all: PAUL ADMITS THAT HIS CONSCIENCE MAY BE MISTAKEN NIV 1 Corinthians 4:1 So then, men ought to regard us as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the secret things of God. 2 Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. 3 I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. 4 My CONSCIENCE is clear, but that does not make me INNOCENT. It is the Lord who judges me.5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God. | ||
| Denisegilmore |
To all, I submit the following verses regarding CONSCIENCE: Acts 23:1 Acts 24:16 Romans 2:15 Romans 9:1 Romans 13:5 1 Cor. 8:7,10,12 1 Cor. 10:25,27,28,29 2 Cor. 1:12 2 Cor. 4:2 2 Cor. 5:11 1 Tim. 1:5,19 1 Tim. 3:9 1 Tim. 4:2 2 Tim. 1:3 Titus 1:15 Hebrews 9:9,14 Hebrews 10:2,22 Hebrews 13:18 1 Peter 2:19 Yes Max, I too, believe that when we are indwelled by the Holy Spirit that He is all encompassing. But as to thinking, pondering, emotional feeling etc. He is working in us in these areas, to direct us. Does this make sense in the way I'm trying to convey this? I hope so. Will see you tonight! Yummmm...chocolate truffle night!! God Bless you all, Denise P.S. Maryann, what time are you coming? Oh, and my friend Richard is coming along! Isn't this great! Later :) 1 Peter 3:16, 21 | ||
| Max |
Bless your heart, Denise, To be honest I was expecting to get buried. Thank you so much for being sweet, chocolate truffle sweet no less. Of course I believe in my conscience as being a guide. But I believe that my conscience by itself is not a safe guide. Just as the Holy Spirit indwells all of my body, He also indwells my conscience. Scripture says, "Thy word have I hid in my heart." So if my conscience has the Holy Spirit and God's Word (Christ) in the form of Scripture hidden in it, then it is a safe guide, but only then is it safe. Otherwise I might follow my unsafe conscience and mow down some Seventh-day Adventists who are crossing the street during a break in the upcoming General Conference world session in -- where? New York this time? -- whatever megatropolis they choose. God's love, Max of the Cross Ps. Only four hours till FAF, Redlands Chapter meeting. | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Hello Max, I am thankful to the Lord that His Word is hidden in my heart too! Otherwise I may be inclined to follow suit to the other as well. And I think that GC should also thank the Lord God Almighty! :)) Less than four hours until FAF meeting..time is just creeping by it seems. See you then I hope. Still I've no word from Maryann..:( Maryann, OHHHHH MAAARRYYYANNNNNN???! Think she heard me? God Bless us all, everyone, tim | ||
| Max |
ALL SIN IS AGAINST GOD ONLY -- NOT OTHER PEOPLE OR THE SELF -- FIRST AND FOREMOST Example #1. After King David had committed adultery and murdered the woman's husband and the prophet Nathan accused him, he prayed, "Against you, you only, have I sinned." NIV Psalm 51:4. Example #2. 6 So he [POTIPHAR] left in Joseph's care everything he had; with Joseph in charge, he did not concern himself with anything except the food he ate. Now Joseph was well-built and handsome, 7 and after a while his master's wife took notice of Joseph and said, "Come to bed with me!" 8 But he refused. "With me in charge," he told her, "my master does not concern himself with anything in the house; everything he owns he has entrusted to my care. 9 No one is greater in this house than I am. My master has withheld nothing from me except you, because you are his wife. How then could I do such a wicked thing and sin against GOD [NOT Potiphar?]?" 10 And though she spoke to Joseph day after day, he refused to go to bed with her or even be with her. --NIV Genesis 39:6-10. Question: How does this spiritual reality affect this Discussion? Specifically, how did George sin AGAINST GOD ONLY by eating a piece of cheese (assuming it was a sin, which I don't, but you might disagree with me)? Or, how how did I sin AGAINST GOD ONLY by going to see the movie "Old Yeller" (assuming it was a sin, which I don't, but you might disagree with me) as an earliteen waaaay back when? Max of the Cross |
