| Author |
Message |
Valm
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 9:00 pm: |     |
DeniseThank you for that tidbit of internet searching info.
I don't know why I am so tickled to know that every place in Revelation refers to the commandments of Jesus, but I sure am. I will enjoy the tickled feeling awhile before I blow it by over evaluating it.
Cas, I sound like a broken record to those who have read my back posts. But I found out about entole and nomos from the NEW COVENANT CHRISTIANS book on line at Graceplace.com or .org. Clay Peck articulates it much better than I do.
Well I do not know how I will fall asleep feeling so happy as when I get jazzed it is hard to fall asleep. But I know when I do it will be a good sleep. Bedtime story time with Anthony, gotta go.
Valerie |
Max
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 9:07 pm: | |
Valerie:
NIV Revelation 14:12 This calls for patient
endurance on the part of the saints who obey
God's commandments and remain faithful to
Jesus.
Interlinear Greek-English New Testament
(IGENT) Revelation 14:12
Hodeh hay hupomonay tone habione estin
Here the endurance of the saints is
oi tayrountes tas ENTOLAS tou theou
the [ones] keeping the COMMANDMENTS of
God
kai tayn pistin Iasou
and the faith of Jesus
I have capitalized the word COMMANDMENTS
in both languages. You can see that the Greek
word for it is "entolas" the same Greek word
as is used in Revelation 12:17.
Here is a principle you can live by: Whenever
John (in his gospel, letters or Revelation)
uses the Greek word "entolas," it ALWAYS
refers to the Commandments of Jesus, and
NEVER to the Ten Commandments. Likewise,
whenever John uses the Greek word ģnomosī
(law), it ALWAYS refers to the Law of Moses
and NEVER to the Commandments of Jesus.
Example:
IGENT John 1:17:
hoti ho NOMOS dia Mouseose edothay hey
For the LAW through Moses was given
hey charis kai hey alaytheia
the grace and the truth
dia Iaysou Christou egeneto
the truth through Jesus Christ became
NIV John 1:17: For the law was given through
Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus
Christ.
Those are the facts. Make up your own mind.
Blessings to all,
Max of the Cross |
Valm
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 9:43 pm: | |
I have made up my mind. That is why I am so tickled to see something that was always there but was not shown to me. It renders a whole new perspective. The more I find out, the less anxiety I have about picking up the Bible. I am DETOXING!!!!!!!
Valerie |
Denisegilmore
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 10:32 pm: | |
E-Mail us!
More Search Tools!! Lexicon for Strong's Number 1785 Go to Rev 14:12
1785 entole {en-tol-ay'}
from 1781; TDNT - 2:545,234; n f
AV - commandment 69, precept 2; 71
1) an order, command, charge, precept, injunction
1a) that which is prescribed to one by reason of his office
2) a commandment
2a) a prescribed rule in accordance with which a thing is done
2a1) a precept relating to lineage, of the Mosaic precept
concerning the priesthood
2a2) ethically used of the commandments in the Mosaic law or
Jewish tradition
About Strongs Concordance for Strongs Number 1785 Go to Rev 14:12
There are 71 instances of verses containing Strong's number 1785. Page 1, verses 1 - 25.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever [3739] [1437] therefore [3767] shall break [3089] (5661) one [3391] of these [5130] least [1646] commandments [1785], and [2532] shall teach [1321] (5661) men [444] so [3779], he shall be called [2564] (5701) the least [1646] in [1722] the kingdom [932] of heaven [3772]: but [1161] whosoever [3739] [302] shall do [4160] (5661) and [2532] teach [1321] (5661) [them], the same [3778] shall be called [2564] (5701) great [3173] in [1722] the kingdom [932] of heaven [3772].
Mat 15:3 But [1161] he answered [611] (5679) and said [2036] (5627) unto them [846], Why [1302] do ye [5210] also [2532] transgress [3845] (5719) the commandment [1785] of God [2316] by [1223] your [5216] tradition [3862]?
Mat 15:6 And [2532] honour [5091] (5661) not [3364] his [846] father [3962] or [2228] his [846] mother [3384], [he shall be free]. Thus [2532] have ye made [208] [0] the commandment [1785] of God [2316] of none effect [208] (5656) by [1223] your [5216] tradition [3862].
Mat 19:17 And [1161] he said [2036] (5627) unto him [846], Why [5101] callest thou [3004] (5719) me [3165] good [18]? [there is] none [3762] good [18] but [1508] one [1520], [that is], God [2316]: but [1161] if [1487] thou wilt [2309] (5719) enter [1525] (5629) into [1519] life [2222], keep [5083] (5657) the commandments [1785].
Mat 22:36 Master [1320], which [4169] [is] the great [3173] commandment [1785] in [1722] the law [3551]?
Mat 22:38 This [3778] is [2076] (5748) the first [4413] and [2532] great [3173] commandment [1785].
Mat 22:40 On [1722] these [5025] two [1417] commandments [1785] hang [2910] (5743) all [3650] the law [3551] and [2532] the prophets [4396].
Mar 7:8 For [1063] laying aside [863] (5631) the commandment [1785] of God [2316], ye hold [2902] (5719) the tradition [3862] of men [444], [as] the washing [909] of pots [3582] and [2532] cups [4221]: and [2532] many [4183] other [243] such [5108] like things [3946] ye do [4160] (5719).
Mar 7:9 And [2532] he said [3004] (5707) unto them [846], Full well [2573] ye reject [114] (5719) the commandment [1785] of God [2316], that [2443] ye may keep [5083] (5661) your own [5216] tradition [3862].
Mar 10:5 And [2532] Jesus [2424] answered [611] (5679) and said [2036] (5627) unto them [846], For [4314] the hardness [4641] [0] of your [5216] heart [4641] he wrote [1125] (5656) you [5213] this [5026] precept [1785].
Mar 10:19 Thou knowest [1492] (5758) the commandments [1785], Do [3431] [0] not [3361] commit adultery [3431] (5661), Do [5407] [0] not [3361] kill [5407] (5661), Do [2813] [0] not [3361] steal [2813] (5661), Do [5576] [0] not [3361] bear false witness [5576] (5661), Defraud [650] (5661) not [3361], Honour [5091] (5720) thy [4675] father [3962] and [2532] mother [3384].
Mar 12:28 And [2532] one [1520] of the scribes [1122] came [4334] (5631), and having heard [191] (5660) them [846] reasoning together [4802] (5723), and perceiving [1492] (5761) that [3754] he had answered [611] (5662) them [846] well [2573], asked [1905] (5656) him [846], Which [4169] is [2076] (5748) the first [4413] commandment [1785] of all [3956]?
Mar 12:29 And [1161] Jesus [2424] answered [611] (5662) him [846], The [3754] first [4413] of all [3956] the commandments [1785] [is], Hear [191] (5720), O Israel [2474]; The Lord [2962] our [2257] God [2316] is [2076] (5748) one [1520] Lord [2962]:
Mar 12:30 And [2532] thou shalt love [25] (5692) the Lord [2962] thy [4675] God [2316] with [1537] all [3650] thy [4675] heart [2588], and [2532] with [1537] all [3650] thy [4675] soul [5590], and [2532] with [1537] all [3650] thy [4675] mind [1271], and [2532] with [1537] all [3650] thy [4675] strength [2479]: this [3778] [is] the first [4413] commandment [1785].
Mar 12:31 And [2532] the second [1208] [is] like [3664], [namely] this [3778] (5625) [846], Thou shalt love [25] (5692) thy [4675] neighbour [4139] as [5613] thyself [4572]. There is [2076] (5748) none [3756] other [243] commandment [1785] greater [3187] than these [5130].
Luk 1:6 And [1161] they were [2258] (5713) both [297] righteous [1342] before [1799] God [2316], walking [4198] (5740) in [1722] all [3956] the commandments [1785] and [2532] ordinances [1345] of the Lord [2962] blameless [273].
Luk 15:29 And [1161] he answering [611] (5679) said [2036] (5627) to [his] father [3962], Lo [2400] (5628), these many [5118] years [2094] do I serve [1398] (5719) thee [4671], neither [3763] [0] transgressed I [3928] (5627) at any time [3763] thy [4675] commandment [1785]: and [2532] yet [2532] thou [1325] [0] never [3763] gavest [1325] (5656) me [1698] a kid [2056], that [2443] I might make merry [2165] (5686) with [3326] my [3450] friends [5384]:
Luk 18:20 Thou knowest [1492] (5758) the commandments [1785], Do [3431] [0] not [3361] commit adultery [3431] (5661), Do [5407] [0] not [3361] kill [5407] (5661), Do [2813] [0] not [3361] steal [2813] (5661), Do [5576] [0] not [3361] bear false witness [5576] (5661), Honour [5091] (5720) thy [4675] father [3962] and [2532] thy [4675] mother [3384].
Luk 23:56 And they returned [5290] (5660), and [1161] prepared [2090] (5656) spices [759] and [2532] ointments [3464]; and [2532] rested [2270] (5656) [3303] the sabbath day [4521] according [2596] to the commandment [1785].
Jhn 10:18 No man [3762] taketh [142] (5719) it [846] from [575] me [1700], but [235] I [1473] lay [5087] [0] it [846] down [5087] (5719) of [575] myself [1683]. I have [2192] (5719) power [1849] to lay [5087] [0] it [846] down [5087] (5629), and [2532] I have [2192] (5719) power [1849] to take [2983] (5629) it [846] again [3825]. This [5026] commandment [1785] have I received [2983] (5627) of [3844] my [3450] Father [3962].
Jhn 11:57 Now [1161] both [2532] the chief priests [749] and [2532] the Pharisees [5330] had given [1325] (5715) a commandment [1785], that [2443], if [1437] any man [5100] knew [1097] (5632) where [4226] he were [2076] (5748), he should shew [3377] (5661) [it], that [3704] they might take [4084] (5661) him [846].
Jhn 12:49 For [3754] I [1473] have [2980] [0] not [3756] spoken [2980] (5656) of [1537] myself [1683]; but [235] the Father [3962] which sent [3992] (5660) me [3165], he [846] gave [1325] (5656) me [3427] a commandment [1785], what [5101] I should say [2036] (5632), and [2532] what [5101] I should speak [2980] (5661).
Jhn 12:50 And [2532] I know [1492] (5758) that [3754] his [846] commandment [1785] is [2076] (5748) life [2222] everlasting [166]: whatsoever [3739] I [1473] speak [2980] (5719) therefore [3767], even as [2531] the Father [3962] said [2046] (5758) unto me [3427], so [3779] I speak [2980] (5719).
Jhn 13:34 A new [2537] commandment [1785] I give [1325] (5719) unto you [5213], That [2443] ye love [25] (5725) one another [240]; as [2531] I have loved [25] (5656) you [5209], that [2443] ye [5210] also [2532] love [25] (5725) one another [240].
Jhn 14:15 If [1437] ye love [25] (5725) me [3165], keep [5083] (5657) my [1699] commandments [1785].
You are on page 1 of 3. To view other pages, select page number. (Verse range also shown)
1 (Mat 5:19 - Jhn 14:15) 2 (Jhn 14:21 - 2Pe 3:2) 3 (1Jo 2:3 - Rev 22:14)
The Blue Letter Bible has Search Tools, Commentaries, Lexicons and Concordances!
at: http://www.blueletterbible.org
This is what I found..
God Bless all,
Denise |
Denisegilmore
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 10:46 pm: | |
Isn't it a great news to find all this out Valerie? Or anyone else who is just now finding out facts regarding the Mosaic Law vs New Covenant Law of Love?
For me, it has been liberating to say the least.
Now, I am not a Greek Scholar nor do I know many Greek words, but,,,I do know that there is a BIG difference in the Mosaic Law vs the Law of Love.
Love fulfills the Law.
God Bless all in your journey out of any cult that insists you keep the Mosaic Laws or Laws of Moses.
Love is the fulfillment of the Law.
As Max has said in another post quoting Bible Truth, 'thou shall agape.' :))
Thank you Max for shining a light that was so needed!
God Bless you,
Denise |
Max
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 10:56 pm: | |
Valerie,
I searched the book of Revelation in the
following (English) versions for the word "law":
New International Version
King James Version
New American Standard Bible
Revised Standard Version
NIV formatted (NT only)
Darby Translation
Young's Literal Translation
New King James Version
And came up with nothing. |
Denisegilmore
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 11:10 pm: | |
What does that mean Max? That there is no law or is it named something else...I'm lost here as to the meaning of your post. Help?
Isn't law that same thing as commandment? As far as a word is considered? Yipes...now I'm really confused.
God Bless,
Denise |
Denisegilmore
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 11:32 pm: | |
OHhhhhhhh...I think I see now Max, you mean LAW as in 'NOMOS'..right?
God Bless,
Denise |
Denisegilmore
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 11:57 pm: | |
I'm slow,,,but I catch on, especially if I pay more attention to previous posts, i.e. John 1:17 posted above by Max...:))
God Bless all,
Denise |
Valm
| | Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2001 - 7:05 am: | |
Strong's Lexicon refers to entole AS possibly being Mosaic. Which does not support my point.
My point being that John's usage of the word entole refers to the commandments of Jesus and when he uses the word Nomos he is refering to the Mosaic commandments.
I am not a Greek scholar, but again it certainly supports the arguement of having a basic knowledge of Greek.
I suppose to really determine what he actually meant would be to do a study on his usage of both words in all of his writings. a true pattern would most likely emerge.
Valerie |
Valm
| | Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2001 - 7:05 am: | |
Strong's Lexicon refers to entole AS possibly being Mosaic. Which does not support my point.
My point being that John's usage of the word entole refers to the commandments of Jesus and when he uses the word Nomos he is refering to the Mosaic commandments.
I am not a Greek scholar, but again it certainly supports the arguement of having a basic knowledge of Greek.
I suppose to really determine what he actually meant would be to do a study on his usage of both words in all of his writings. a true pattern would most likely emerge.
Valerie |
Denisegilmore
| | Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2001 - 7:48 pm: | |
Hi everyone,
Here is how Paul uses the Greek word 'nomos,', meaning 'law' in the book of Galatians.
So everytime you see the word 'law' in this book, it is referring to the greek word 'nomos.'
Didn't know if anyone would be interested but was hoping that this would benefit someone out there.
God Bless you all,
Denise
KJV Verse Count
Greek Word: Novmož
Transliterated Word: nomos
Book to Display: Galatians
Verse Count: 25
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ga 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Ga 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Ga 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Ga 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Ga 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Ga 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Ga 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Ga 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Ga 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Ga 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Ga 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Ga 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Ga 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Ga 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Ga 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Ga 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Ga 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
Ga 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Ga 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Ga 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Ga 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Ga 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Ga 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
Ga 6:13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh. |
Cas
| | Posted on Friday, January 12, 2001 - 12:13 pm: | |
Thanks for all the responses to the Commandment question. I got out my Sabbath in Crisis and quote from it on pg. 296, 297.
This pretty much confirms what others have stated on this subject.
"The word "commandments," as used in the New Testament, may refer to one or more of the Ten Commandments. However, this term does not always refer to the Ten Commandments, and when it does only once is it used in connection with the Sabbath commandment. That one time is Luke 23:56.
John always uses the word "law" (nomos) when referring to old covenant law.
When John uses the word "commandment" (entole)it never refers to the old covenant law and usually refers to the new covenant law of love".
"It will become immediately evident evident that when used in John, "commandment" (entole) does not refer to the Ten Commandments, or other portions of the old covenant".
In referring to Rev. 14:17 Ratzlaff says "Who are these people with whom the dragon is angry?
They are the people who keep the new covenant commandments of God and hold to the truth about (or from) Jesus! Notice the parallel in Rev. 14:12."
This is an exciting study, thanks again to those who have helped.
CAS |
Max
| | Posted on Friday, January 12, 2001 - 12:42 pm: | |
Hi Cas,
Thanks for that confirming information. ^^"The
word "commandments," as used in the New
Testament, may refer to one or more of the
Ten Commandments. However, this term
does not always refer to the Ten
Commandments, and when it does only once
is it used in connection with the Sabbath
commandment. That one time is Luke
23:56.^^
But even in this one instance of the term
"commandment," the text does not say "keep
the commandment." It says the women
"rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the
commandment." The verse is just a statement
of fact: They rested on the Sabbath. No new
covenant requirement can be read into this
text.
As new covenant people we are still permitted
to rest on the Sabbath in obedience to the
commandment if that is our conviction.
But we are also permitted to obvserve all days
alike if that is our conviction. Or to rest on a
different day if we are convinced that Sunday,
for example, should be a rest day. SeRomans
14. Paul's point here is that we are not to
judge those who differ in "disputable matters."
I know you agree with this. I just tend to state
things strongly.
Blessings,
MC |
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