| Author | Message | ||
| Linda |
Bruce, Well, no I do not think God wants the kind of commitment that says I will be with you until I dont want to anymore. No, not at all. I think He desires us to be totally commited to Him forever. Scripture says that no one can pluck one of His out of His hand. But I do think that we are created, not as robots, but as creatures with wills. And we must obey Him and follow Him and do as you said, pressing in to Gods door and pledging to be His bondservant forever. I like that. But if we turn away,,,allow sin to choke us and deceive and outright REJECT Jesus, then I think we are lost. Am I off base in this? | ||
| Bruce H |
Linda I guess I just look at it differently. I Hope this does not sound like I am arguing with you because I am not, I just want to say what I feel, even though I know that this is my impression and the Bible states we should use the Bible (1 COR 2:10-16) and not our own reasoning for our way's are not God's way's. See I believe that God knows me better then even I do. He is love. He is light. He is the way. I believe the the Bible when it says ROM 3:10 There is none righteous, no not one; There in none who understands; There is none who seeks after God. Now I know that It is God who sought me and not me him, it is Jesus who showed me the truth and I had to accept his gift that is the choice, that I have done. But I understand very clearly that if anybody could tear me away from the Light, Love, Truth and the Way it would be me, for I am not God and thus can choose darkness, fear, self, and pride. So I Claim God promise John 10: 28-29 and I know that God will give me the wisdom and strength so that I will never turn away or want to turn away it all goes back to faith, which God gave to me and I know that He gave it to me forever Heb 10:14. So I believe once saved always saved because of God claim that he would take away my sin and I also believe God claim that those who he called, THESE he also justifed; and whom He Justified, THESE He also glorified. I am in Jesus Hand and also in the Father's Hand and I know that with the Holy Spirit as my guide I will never want to leave Him. love | ||
| Lydell |
Sounded like a pretty good explanation of the different aspects of the gifts to me, Joni. Those in I Cor. 12 are the gifts that are given to every Spirit-filled believer. Have heard them referred to as like a tool box. When the particular gift is needed for ministry, then it will be manifested. The other passages are referring to a special annointing for specific areas. We are members of a Vineyard church. As I said, the gifts of the Spirit are welcome. We desire those things to be there and are open to the Lord moving in that way. Actually we see them as being vitally important for ministering to the deeply hurting people that come to our church. But while the gifts are welcome, the focus is always on the giver of the gifts, and that the purpose of the gifts is to equip us for ministry, not just something to hype up the individual. There is no insistance that if someone doesn't speak in tongues, then they aren't really spirit-filled, for instance. This whole subject has been, and continues to be, a learning experience for us. For example,I was pretty set in my thinking that God just really doesn't still speak to people in dreams and visions today. And then He up and gave me a dream that was used to bring me to a place of healing in an area of my life. And at the moment it became very clear what the meaning of the dream had been, He gave me a vision that was just such a powerful demonstration of the reality and depth of His love for the believer! And that was the healing ointment that was put over the hurt. We've seen a word of knowledge given to a total stranger who walked in our doors. The woman was smiling and seemed like things were fine with her. But when the word was given that directly addressed what was happening in her life, she burst into tears and said over and over, "God DID hear me. He DOES love me." And her life has been so changed! The best thing you can do on the subject, I think is just look up all the scriptures. Go back and look at what was happening in the book of Acts. And then just stay open for the Lord to confirm the truth to you. He is so faithful to do that! | ||
| Colleentinker |
I agree; I Cor. 12 lists the gifts given to everyone who accepts Jesus and receives his seal, the Holy Spirit. The other gifts are given individually. Essentially, though, all of those Spiritual manifestations are gifts, and every Christian will have gifts of the Spirit. Some we may all share; some will be given to different individuals to build the body. I am still getting used to living with the Spirit. I'm learning to believe that when I ask and listen, God guides me moment by moment. I've been experienceing that in the classroom this past month. It's wonderful! | ||
| Joni |
Linda I like the verses in Jeremiah 31:33-34 and 32:38-40 Also Ezekiel 36: 26-27. If I were to make a list of the New Covenant that God made with Isral (and the gentiles Ephesians 3:6) Here is what God does for us (Born again believers): He puts His law in our hearts/writes it on our hearts He will be our God and we His people We will all know Him (a relationship with Him) He will forgive us/ remember our sins no more He will give us one heart and one way He will make an everlasting covenant with us He will not turn away from us to do them good He will put the fear of Him in our hearts so we won't turn away from Him He will give us a heart of flesh/a new heart He will put a new Spirit in us He will put His Spirit in us and cause us to walk in His statutes and observe His ordinances. He does it. He causes us to not turn from Him. This is the ministry of righteousness. 2Cor.3:8 Back to spiritual gifts: So what I was taught was not far off? They were very against "being out of order". It was not like the churches I have been in where people lift hands and sway and clap, and speak in tongues all at the same time. Because of my more traditional background I am uncomfortable in these churches. I like classical music and some of the praise music drives me crazy. I do realize that it is a matter of my own taste, not a judgement on the music others enjoy. The church I now attend has a band and they play a lot of praise type. Although this makes me crazy at times I like the people and the pastor. I like the freedom to help and use my gifts as I am able to encourage and uplift others and be encouraged and uplifted. We do have a corner during prayer time where a person can go and be anointed with oil for healing. I have talked with a few people in this church and it seems that some do speak in tongues but it is not done in church. One last note. One reason I am confused is that after I took this class on spiritual gifts, I came home, went about my business and continued to try and use what I had been taught. While in class they taught me and I spoke in tongues and interpreted, healed others etc. This class was in the South West. I am in the East. Here there is no church that "does it like them". And as I do not feel comfortable in the more chrismatic churches I continue to seek and pray about this. And....then I find out after 6 months of keeping in touch with the teachers, that they do not believe that Jesus is God. They believe that God was in Christ, but Jesus is not from the beginning. This is why I want former adventist opinion. Now what do I do????? Do I toss out all that they taught???? It is the same with the adventist church. I was in this church for 15 years, until I realize that something is not right with it. I guess I want to walk slowly and wait longer upon the Lord to teach me. I think if I am suppose to use the gifts in this particular way He will provide a church I feel comfortable in. Maybe comfortable is not the right word. That makes it sound like I am not letting God work and being selfish. I just want to be and do the right thing. I do realize that there is no perfect church. | ||
| Lynn W |
Hi Joni My name is Pam. I was an Adventist for 24 years and now I am so thrilled to be free in Christ. I have looked for a church that understands the real meaning of worship. So often when a church switches over to praise music,(which I love, don't get me wrong) they do it because people enjoy peppy music and not because it allows more room for dance and other physical expressions of Worship. I have found a church that is at least open to the possibility but it is a difficult transistion for so many that the move has been slow. However in my search I encountered the United Pentecostal church and it sounds like maybe so did you. I was looking for a church that was so busy worshipping God that they wouldn't notice if I wanted to kneel, or dance, or raise my hands. I was in for a surprise. I was singled out because I wasn't speaking in tongues and the assumption was that I must be unsaved. I refused to fake it for them, and one lady asked to study with me. I agreed and she came over a couple times. She then started trying to convince me that I was not Spirit filled and that there must be some awful sin in my life that I was unwilling to give up. I took her to 1 Cor. 14. Based on those verses I believe that speaking in tongues is not a learned activity, and not even a desired activity ecspecially for church. It was to be put aside in a hope for the gift of prophecy. It certainly is not a test of salvation as too many people make it. It was to be done only if there was an interpretor present, and then only in moderation. I have yet to find a church that practices that. But the real key that tipped me off that we may have run into the same church is their belief or rather lack of it in Christ. That was a last straw for me and when she explained that doctrine to me I ended the study. Without Christ we got nothin'!!! I reject everything that comes from a source that rejects my Savior. I suppose there could be something good from every source, but if God wants me to speak in tongues He will have to do it through me, because I don't ever want to wonder if it is real or just me faking so I can feel spiritual. I wish you joy in your journey. You can be sure that God will not lead you astray. in Him, Pam | ||
| Joni |
Thank you, I don't have time to write, right now, but thank you all. |
