| Author | Message | ||
| Sherry2 |
Now why I ask that question is because I run into so many different opinions from people, and wondered if others had experienced this too. And what is your response. When I left the SDA church, there were many people who considered me in my new church a "new believer". I did not agree. Now my closest friend from this church did not consider me a new Christian because she knew my walk and life. She just considers me an uninformed Christian who never had the gospel adequately explained but was definitely following Christ to the best of her ability. What about the rest of you formers? Do you think it's a matter of knowing your own heart, and knowing when you came to Christ? Or is every SDA not saved till they come out? I'd like to hear from you all and your experiences. Thanks! | ||
| Sherry2 |
Hmm...anyone going to bite on this topic? I'd really like to hear from others what their experience has been..... | ||
| Violet |
That is a tough one. I loved Jesus, but I was also resentful of Him as an Adventist. I hated all the rules and blamed Him for them. From what I have studied I would say I was not saved, because I was rejecting His ability to totally cover my sins. I was also depressed most of my life because of Adventism. I never measured up and in my teen years I finally gave up. I thought why bother, I'm going to hell anyway. If only I had known then what I know now. How much happier my life might of been. How much more I could of given my girls. I have wasted 11 years of my daugher's life being depressed. But I have vowed to myself to make it up to her and show her how loving and kind and accepting Jesus can be. Vi. PS This is a very personal issue, I think there are saved Adventist, just as there are lost ones. | ||
| Lydell |
Sherry, we met folks in the SDA who I feel sure were Christians. They just had a lot to learn, a lot of deception had been taught them. And they were carrying an awful lot of unneccesary baggage! Could probably count on one hand the number we met who actually understood assurance of salvation, tho. That's the discussion that would always get me in trouble with the people, you know the drill, "but Sister White says we must NEVER say that we are saved." We were Christians long before we ever joined the churh. | ||
| Therese |
Hi all! Yes I was saved as an SDA. However, I had a born again experience before joining SDA. I understood salvation by grace from reading a book by Norman Vincent Peale. When I read how Jesus died for my sins and took my punishment so I would not have to, and there was nothing I could do to earn it and it was a free gift, a light bulb went off in my head. I said to my self, now that is a God I can love. I immediately knew the catholic system was wrong. I wanted more information and began reading the bible and watching/listening to christian media. I began to pray and developed a relationship with Jesus. I had no christian contact, so I began to pray for God to lead me to a church -- the true church. This is the big puzzle for me -- why did God lead me to the SDA church? Several things happened, which were not coincidental, to lead me to SDA. I thought SDA was the answer to that prayer. I grew up catholic and had the same experience as you did, Violet -- feeling I could not measure up as a teen and dropping out. I have come to realize that SDA is very very much like catholicism -- legalistic, only with a different set of rules. After a few years of SDA, I began to get into EGW and became very legalistic and unsure of my salvation. The first step on my road back to assurance of salvation was studying the 1888 Rigteousness By Faith movement in SDA. 1888 teaches you are born saved and can only lose you salvation if you persistently reject it by living a godless life. The 1888 people exerts an enormous amount of energy and time into trying to harmonize EGW with righteousness by faith. I did too. It simply can't be done. She teaches salvation by works. No way around it. There are saved SDA's, but it is a very frustrating experience for born again christians to stay in the SDA legalistic system. But, since our heads are all screwed-up from what we were taught, it is very hard to leave too. I have left SDA, but SDA has not totally left me. I am working on it and believe -- "being confident of this, that He who began a good work in you (me) will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." Phil 1:6 God's blessing to all, Therese | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Y'all, No way! I was NOT saved as an SDA! I knew deep down in my heart that I did NOT conform to what was "right." One naturally gauges themself by others and I would observe the few friends that I had in out "little" remnant group and saw them being angels, praying BIG long prayers in front of all the adults, giving BIG long testimonies and so on. When we were out of the earshot and eyeballing of the "powers" that be, they would cuss and swear, talk about all those taboo subjects etc. I saw a double life. My mom had been baptized and re-baptized so many times that she shouldn't have needed a bath for the rest of her life. Baptism was a meaningless exercise. My friends were baptized, yet were deliberately doing all these things as soon as the adults were out of sight. Mom was real clear about how baptism was a thing you did "after" your life was changed. You had to "get ready" for it. She was also very clear in demonstrating that communion was a serious and scary thing because you would drink death unto yourself if you had NOT ridded yourself of "known" sin. I remember her taking communion (and foot washing) with fear and litteral trembling. Frankly, it scared the whey out of me!!!!! Sooo, here is the stand I took in my own mind. My friends were baptized and deliberately wicked behind the adults backs. I, on the other hand was a "good" kid. I behaved in front of the adults the same as behind them. In my own mind, I was "better" than my friends. BUT!!!! I also knew how evil my thoughts were and how ugly my heart was and since I was better than my friends THERE WAS NO HOPE FOR ME! I decided that I was going to be cursed already, so, I durn sure wasn't going to be cursed doubly by being baptized and taking communion. I was going to hell and that was a sure thing because I put more effort into being "good" than anyone I knew!!! At 18, after leaving home, God, religion etc. with not so much as a backward glance or guilt, I lived a reasonably "good" life for 20+ years. Then, after the witness of numereous, wonderful Christians that God put in my path along with some circumstances that are way too lengthy to tell at this time, I became a born again Christian about 3 years ago;-)) Soooo, SDAism with it's severe (in my case) leagalism, drove me away from the only person that ever totally, completely and absolutely loved me. That person was God who died for me, paying for all my sins, past present and future. I do believe that there are many SDA's that are saved. I also know that this Former SDA was NOT! Praise God for His love and patience and keeping His hand on me all through those 20+ years of running from Him;-)) And infinitely praise God for NOT requiring me to "get ready" to be save!! Praise God that I am NOT judged on even 1/1,000,000,000,000 of a fraction of any deed I do;-)) Praise God that it was His "DEED" that accomplished my full and complete salvation. Maryann.... DTC=Deeded To Christ and IBC=Insured By Christ;-)) | ||
| Jtree |
Hello all, I'm back from a wonderful vacation. I also traveled to China. I saw sad conditions there, very sad, people of China, need PRAYER. What an experience seeing people so poor, I could not help but have tears in my eyes so often. Anyways, I want to say, I took the call of salvation at a good age of 16 years old, in a Baptist church, where Christ was being preached. When I left to join the US Army, I stuck to the fundamental teachings of the Apostles (Acts 2:42). And on my journey in life since those times, I have been "tested" by Mormon's, JW's, and SDA's. Well, the SDA experience was closer to home, because I married a Korean who was just becoming SDA, and it was during our engagement that she got involved. It was long years putting up with it. She had people from Berrien Springs come to our place, and he tried to induce me into the system. But everything he presented, could not be supported to the Bible, everything he would twist out of context every verse. I gave up on the faith, but never totally. I wasn't reading my Bible, I tossed out the one Granny bought when I lived in Japan, prior to my coming back home, bad influences entangled me, Buddism, Confusionism, self, ect ect...but there was always something buring in the back of my mind that what I turned to was not right. I know in my heart now, God led me back to Him, Somehow, my wife senced this, she bought me a Bible, and said, "Read this, from cover to cover, or else I leave you". I was not going to read the Bible again. I started to listening to a radio station, by accident, and found a few sound doctrinal ministeries were teaching daily on the radio, by scanning the radio waves, being new in this town. I got my new Bible, started to read it, and followed, then I said, I was not going to be a "Christian" during the week including saturdays, but Sunday I was going to be a Christian. Boy was I wrong there also. Anyways, alot of this has to do with being set in the solid foundation. Which at times would try to replant itself into the sandy foundations of the world. When the conversion/perversion of SDAism came to me, I was not movable, but made me stay planted in the SOLID ROCK, and not to MOVE AGAIN. I thank God that I had the experience, otherwise I might still be living self, or if not put into a situation like many here were/are in, and that being SDAISM. I find it funny online, that if one speaks about or against the SDA system, you are automatically accussed of being BITTER or ANGRY at something from the SDA system. I'm not angry, but am accused of being angry. Joshua of the Rock, returns still standing on the Rock. | ||
| Lori |
I'll have to say, on looking back at "reality" that I was NOT SAVED as a SDA. (I was physically born into the church and held the misnomer that is common among "born into truth" SDA that the reason I did not have a "salvation experience" was because I had always known the truth. I had never known life without the truth.) As an Adventist, I held to the thought: "my observance of the Sabbath KEEPS my salvation". With this mental attitude my faith WAS NOT in Christ. My faith was ON ME. Christ had made the "down payment" for salvation but if I did not keep making the "weekly" payments, the down payment was null and void. This mental attitude DOES NOT reflect "For by grace are you saved through faith-and that not of yourselves, it is a gift from God" As an Adventist I was REJECTING the GRACE of God. I wasn't saved by grace until October 1999. Adventist speak of persecution, claim that they are persecuted and hated by non-Adventist. I have not found this to be so. However, I can personally testify that I have been persecuted by Adventist. I have been rejected by Adventist because I claim the cross of Christ as my salvation. I know that you all have experienced this same thing. As Adventist we were taught that non-Adventist were "out to get us". We were taught to separate ourselves from those that were not Sabbath keepers. We were raised with rules that prevented us from knowing non-Adventist, rules that alienated us from society. --I felt persecuted as an Adventist--didn't you?-- It was self-persecution!!! Adventism doesn't created the persecution that the Bible speaks about, it only creates self persecution. I know a lot of people like me, people who were raised "in the system". The question that brings fear in my heart is: "Are they saved"? Because I wasn't; I know I wasn't. I didn't FULLY trust in Christ. It was just a partial, initial trust. What He did didn't do it all. The final part was up to me; I had to finish my salvation. I know that prior to our physical deaths that God gives everyone the opportunity to fully accept Christ. Under the system of Adventism you are taught to reject this salvation. How many of our friends and loved ones will be hardened to the truth because they have chosen to believe a lie? It's a rare Adventist that will hear the true gospel message (or anything contrary to their beliefs) and say, "if that's what you believe that's what you need to do". However, as an Adventist I have conversed with many non-Adventists that did not argue, were not defensive, but rather accepting that you were a child of God just as they are. I have had a similiar experience as you Sherry (Christians thinking I was a "new" Christian). At the time, I didn't agree, I thought I had always been saved. However in hindsight I was a brand new babe in Christ that October. For a couple of years I had rejected the Adventist doctrines but I hadn't fully accepted Christ for me. I hadn't "stepped into the water", I was just standing on the side looking in. When I finally did "step in" all of the glory for my salvation was placed upon Christ; none of the glory was mine anymore. Lori | ||
| Lydell |
Therese, my husband and I, like you are certain that the Lord led us to the SDA church. I'm thinking that over time you will realize, as we have, that had we not been there, we surely would not have met certain people and would have never had opportunity to speak into their lives words about assurance of salvation. It only very recently dawned on me that only 4-5 months before we ended up in the SDA church that the Lord had been bringing on us some conviction to get involved with missions. We, at the time, thought that meant something like joining JAARS (Jungle Aviation and Radio Service, the aviation branch of Wycliffe translators). Well, he sent us to a mission field alright, didn't He?! And Therese, you surely already realize that you are now equipped for a mission field that you would never have been able to address had you not been there and seen what it is actually like. Right? | ||
| Therese |
Lydell, That is a possibility I have not thought of. How long were you SDA? And how long have you been out? Other than this forum, have you been given opportunities to tell others of the assurance of salvation? Therese | ||
| Chyna |
Lydell, your insight was quite awesome, Praise God :). you are too right! I can adequately explain every single blinkin' SDA doctrine in the planet with history, quotations, and scandalous stories to both SDAs and nonSDAs alike! and how did I come unto this vast amorphous amount of unscriptually sound doctrinal knowledge? because of my SDA boyfriend! in researching his beliefs, God effectly gave me all the knowledge and insight to refute every single one of them! with details! and history! and the sordid truth! God lead me HERE. If you'll look in the archives there is a post by a guest, under the topic "adventist friend" that was my very first post here. if you do read it you'll see just how confused I was and hurting. not understanding why my SDA boyfriend was hurting and rejecting me, even though I was a Christian, even though I loved him with all my being. you know so many of my Christian friends have talked to me about Andy. they can visibly see how devastated I was by his withdrawing and effective rejection. and to understand why he left me they have to understand what makes SDAism the way it is. and that leaves me with at least a 15 minute lecture on EGW etc. al. just at a party I met this wonderful Korean girl who told me that her cousin in the Midwest *just* joined an SDA congregation. I was like Korean(!) because the first SDA I ever met was a friend from college, who was part of a Korean SDA church. huh, funny. anyway, I'm sure I told her enough that she'll want to start praying for her cousin. Chyna | ||
| Lydell |
Therese, we were in the denomination 8 years. Then foolishly met as a home church for 8 years. (I think of that time only the first year or two was probably God's idea. We were downright toxic with the garbage doctrines we were carrying away from the denomination!) For the past 4 years we have been part of a Vineyard church here. Yes, we are definitely being used to share with others the truth of assurance of salvation. Mostly it is with babes in Christ. Tho, there is one friend now who we are talking to who is struggling. He was raised Roman Catholic. Legalism is legalism after all. There are always others too. For instance, the lady who visited church one week. My husband felt impressed to tell her, "the Lord wants you to know that this place you are in in your life is a turning point..." at which she burst into tears. You see, she had come home that week and found a note from her husband saying that he was leaving her and filing for a divorce. She had allowed him to keep her out of church altogether for 15 years. During that time, she just pushed the Lord aside. She said that she had come to church that morning out of absolute desperation. She was sure that God HAD, in fact, washed His hands of her and that now she was to have to live her life without Him. But she had just enough faith left to try to attend a church, just one time, she knew there would never be another if she left uncertain of where she stood with the Lord. So there are always different situations where folks get it in their minds that God is disgusted with them and has turned His back. But, as was said in the sermon at our church Sunday (imagine that, a sabbath sermon on Sunday!) God does not look down at His children when they trip and fall and say disgustedly, "well that's IT, toss the kid out, he's defective, he can't even walk." When we were SDA, the ones we were sharing with had either been Christians for a very long time (and there were precious few of them!) or else didn't have a clue what "salvation" meant at all! You know the ones. Several times while we were in the SDA's we were asked by someone, "so when did you come into the truth." And every single time they were referring to the sabbath NOT salvation. So sad! | ||
| Doug222 |
Lydell, Is your testimony on the forum somewhere? I would love to hear more about your experience with the home church. Thanks. Doug | ||
| Lydell |
No, our testimonies are on another site. But the stories there were written so long ago...almost another lifetime it seems. So I'll do a quicky of them here. We had grown weary of the local congregation where we were members. There was just zero love for people....unless you were hometown born and bred, the right color, wore the right clothes, had the right accent, and didn't question anything. We didn't fit in any of the categories. And as I said somewhere else here, we just came to the point of realizing that we didn't want our sons growing up thinking that was what church was supposed to be like. There was NO life in the place it seemed. Folks just wanted to talk about "the pillars of the church" again and again and forget talking about the Lord or walking by faith or having a real relationship with God. And we knew that if a friend were to say they wanted to come to visit the church, we would have to tell them they would be better off somewhere else. We went through alot of battles during those years. Somehow the head elder got it in his head that this was a battle for control of the church. Gee, we just thought that if someone didn't step forward to do a job that it seemed needed doing that we should step in there and get to work. By the end, we were doing virtually every job in the church. Not out of a desire to do them, but because NO ONE would step forward to do them. By the time we finally seriously asked God what in the world we could do to have a positive impact on the church AND really listened for His answer, we were so dry there was little life left. We'd been asking for a long time what He wanted us to do, we had just failed to listen to His answer! Personally I was very surprised when His answer came, "I never said I wanted you to stay." For a year we followed the desperate step, remember we are white and live in the deep south, of attending an all black SDA congregation. There was little satisfaction there. And that was because the basic problem that caused the lack of interest among the people for relationship with God was really the doctrines. Finally we just gave that up and started meeting as a home church with my best friend and her two kids. And within a few months another friend and her kids were meeting with us as well. We each individually before God, without any discussion about what we were doing, felt impressed to go back to the book of Acts to find out what the church was supposed to be. It was a surprise when we finally started talking about it to find that each of us was on the same track in our thinking. I do think it was God's idea for us to meet as a home church for that first year. We had so much unlearning to do! We had to get back into the Word for real. And it was during this time that we saw truth and sat aside most of the erroneous SDA doctrines, such as the IJ. Meeting as a home church got old...very very old. What we learned is that people need a pastor. People need body fellowship. Both because they need to be ministered to, and because they need to be ministering to others. And there is no replacement at all for corporate worship. But, even tho we had only been in the denomination 8 years, that stinking mindset of being doomed if you didn't keep the sabbath had taken deep root. Stupid! Incredibly stupid! Especially when we consider that we had been Christian before we ever went to the SDA's. It just amazes me how deeply that message against going to another church gets planted! So, we kept meeting for a home church for 8 years. What a waste! Finally when we got disgusted with ourselves, we actually shut up again (we had been asking for a long time what we could do to find more fellowship, but our minds were always waiting to hear something about finding fellowship on sabbath!) and really listened. It was only when we laid it ALL out before Him, when we finally took our hands off trying to manipulate the answer, and told Him we would go ANYWHERE He led, that we were actually in a place to hear clearly what He said. But we asked Him to give us many confirmations that we were in the right place. The first thought that occurred to us was to go to a community Bible study. Which we did. But on the way each of us prayed privately that if this was not the place where He wanted us, He would just send someone to give us an invitation to the place where He did want us because we were too stupid to figure it out on our own. That night 4 people invited us to the same church. And that church is where we are now. We do NOT recommend the home church route! It is eventually spiritually deadly. When someone leaves the SDA's they are carrying a ton of garbage in their heads. They tend to open the scriptures and automatically read them from the same SDA mindset. They need fresh food. They need a new perspective. They need to see real living breathing Christians who are passionate about their God. And while it may hurt our pride to have to admit it, we all honestly need to be ministered to face to face by these same Christians to get on the right track. Really, it is nothing but some kind of silly pride that keeps us as formers from realizing that we are, in fact, NOT the only ones who can hear from God. It is incredibly foolish to think that for some 2,000 years He has been perfectly capable of teaching His children in all Christian churches, but now suddenly it isn't happening and we should stay away from them. SO, if you are thinking of meeting as a home church. FORGET IT! I wish I had bigger letters here! There is so very much more that the Lord has waiting for you in a church body somewhere. | ||
| Violet |
I can see where meeting at home when you have as much baggage as you do after coming out would be a BIG mistake. I know after just one week I was so impressed with the worship service of the Sunday church we went to. The funny thing is I do not even know for sure what religion it is. You may think is was stupid, but we were invited by my daughter's friend (age 12) and we went. Who knows where the Lord is leading, I can't wait, I just love an adventure. Vi | ||
| Colleentinker |
We had a good experience with home church, but it only lasted two years, and we know for sure that God brought it to an end. We read the bood The Church Comes Home by Robert Banks (I think!)--a professor at Fuller Seminary in Pasadena, California. In his book he states that unless God forms a church, even a home church, it will not survivie or "work". God brings the people, he says, and God removes the people. Only if God forms the group is it goin g to work. We met with our Christian neighbors who didn't have a home church. We took turns hosting church in our homes, and whichever of us hosted served breakfast. We met on Sunday. We were just leaving Adventism, and we would have liked to meet on Saturday for habit and convenience' sake, but they wanted to meet on Sunday. I realize now that the experience of meeting at home on Sunday was part of how God de-programmed us from subconsciously honoring the seventh day. We prayed conmtinually that God would guide us show us what he wanted to happen with our church. One day when our then-15-year-old said he wanted to go to church with his friends from school, we visitied Trinity Evangelical Free Church a couple miles from us. The rest is history. Our home church disbanded by mutual consent, and God brought us to the church where we now attend and where we are getting the most awesome bible teaching we've ever had. I praise God for how he tailor-makes our experiences and provides what we need to grow with him! Colleen | ||
| Chyna |
Dear Lydell, you do the \2 in front of it and the {}letters get bigger. example: FORGET IT :) | ||
| Chyna |
Dear Vi, I have a funny experience to relate to you about that. it's funny how after you've been involved with Adventism, you get all suspicious of churches. So in Thailand, I told my Aunt I wanted to attend church on Sunday. They knew of a church and so they took me there, I didn't understand anything b/c it was in Thai, but I was fine, it's always wonderful to worship with believers. Turns out it was called "Church of Christ" which rang a distant bell in my head. I talked to one of my friends still attending college (in Massachusetts) and asked him if he knew anything about: Church of Christ. He said they were a cult! A cult! I freaked out and told my aunt I wanted to attend a *different* church and had to explain the idea of a bad church to them. So they took me to another church. Turns out that church had been Presbyterian! They just had the name "Church of Christ" internationally. Unlike in the United States where the Boston Church of Christ is a very damaging cult. heehee, well turned out well anyway because it made me get over my shyness to contact some missionaries to see where they were going to church. Chyna |
