| Author | Message | ||
| Sherry2 |
My name is Sherry Reinbold, maiden name Cornell. Here's my family's story, as I came to Adventism as a family with my Mom and Dad. My Mom and Dad were into drugs, alcohol, smoking...heck we raised our own marijuana. My mom had married my father at 16 to get out of a bad home, only to arrive with another alcoholic. Very typical in the dysfunctional family scenario. My mom had given her life to Christ before marrying my dad. But now in this new environment, she began using with my dad. I was 8 when we moved to the Upper Penninsula of Michigan. We lived off the land, no running water, no electricity, what my dad shot we ate, plus our garden. We moved there because my father's hatred of people was so deep, he was afraid he would kill someone. Some friends of theirs had moved to Alaska, and later came down to live with us. They had changed dramatically...they weren't using, they were married now, and they had found Christ through an Adventist church. My dad said he would give anything to have the peace they had. We took Bible studies, and the Pastor of the SDA church where we lived came to present them. My folks wanted to be baptised, but Dad wanted to have the drugs and alcohol gone first. The pastor told him to come as he was and let Christ do the rest, not to worry about quitting all these things first. (Now, my experience in my 20 years of Adventism is that that is very, very rare! That was truly a grace-based idea of baptism, and that is not what usually happens in the Adventist church. I've known many people who have been turned away from baptism because they had some external thing they hadn't given up yet...that is wrong) Dad would not concede. One day he was out in the woods, lighting another joint, and he just cried and fell to his knees, and asked God to remove the cravings for these things. My dad told God "I'm not going to quit, Lord...I've tried. If you want these things out of my life, You must take them." My Dad got sick and couldn't stand the taste the next time he had a cigarette, a joint, a drink. It was gone. God removed it all. Then we were baptised. I was 10 then. I grew up through the church schools, eventually married, and now have children of my own. I've had my own dramatic story, and road with Christ. I suffered with constant depression and suicidalness. Because I was an avid reader of EGWhite, I knew that I should have my diet under control, never snack, not eat any meat, nor want for jewelry, guard the edges of Sabbath, make all my meals on Friday, etc., etc. Guilt dogged me constantly, and I just wanted to die. It seemed the more I tried to align myself to all these rules, the further I would fall, and ended up battling alcohol and sexual addiction. I could never measure up to these standards from God's prophetess, and because I believed and taught that all she said was from God, I knew of no other way. It wasn't till this last year, just this past April that, after going through a year of battling clinical depression, and learning to just lean on Jesus, lean on Jesus, that God began to open my eyes, and teach me that she wasn't a prophetess, and showed me things that were quite contrary to Scripture, and the 1844 Investigative Judgment that stands contrary to God's Word. The first thing that motivated me to resign my membership this May of 2000 was that if I was so afraid to leave Adventism for fear of losing my salvation, then how can my salvation be based upon Jesus Christ? I had to know it was in Jesus and Him alone. The Adventist church teaches that once you accept their message you cannot leave. God "has given a precious message to this church (The Seventh-Day Adventists) that is for His people in all churches. To go back now to being Methodist or Baptist or generically evangelical in our focus in not an option."(Taken from "Are Adventists the True Christians?" Adventist Review Sept. 2000, p. 45. Boy does that sound like Catholism that Adventist preach so fervantly against. I also learned from Hebrews that all my sins were taken to the cross. What a relief to not have to think that if I missed confessing one sin I might be lost! Now I know, when I do not do perfectly, (and now I know I never can - that's why Jesus did it perfectly, and was the perfect sacrifice), that it was already paid for. No more beating myself up mentally. I cried and cried when I read Hebrews through His eyes and not SDA eyes! I was set free and liberated that day. My guilt and condemnation were too. I have lived without the guilt I carried now for 8 months now. I also have loved joining the great body of Christ who serve Him so fervantly. I love going to church, and hearing testimony after testimony of when they met Christ, not when they became SDA. The focus is so different. The gospel is preached. This year for the first time I could sing Fanny Crosby's "Blessed Assurance, Jesus is Mine" with 100% confidence and utter joy with tears streaming down my face. Now I know I am His and He is mine. I know my security of heaven is in Him, and He has promised that He will not let me be snatched from His hand. Now I can serve him out of love, and not fear of losing my salvation all the time. And all those rules from Ellen are just that, man-made rules that kill and destroy. I cannot begin to tell you how thankful I am. It was such a rich blessing for me to learn from other formers that their doctrinal reasons for leaving were just like mine. In my studies, I also learned about the New Covenant and what a refreshment that was. Read Clay Peck's story for more on that. That changed my life radically in understanding the gospel. I shared some of their stories with my folks. My folks began to study their Bible like crazy, and realized they could not remain SDA either. My dad is a Conference worker, so you realize the implications here. It means leaving your job of 20 years as well. But now my folks are so at peace, studying daily, walking with love in their hearts. My dad gets to use his drumming talent for Jesus, and is a drummer in their church. It is awesome to see the changes this has made for them as well. No longer believing we are superior to others, but realizing the deep spiritual lessons that can be learned from other Christians. It is so awesome! And of course, we realize that some things we believed were a lie, and feel resentment. But God is dealing with that in my heart, and theirs...to forgive. My folks question was, Well then why did God lead us to this church to begin with? My answer to them was first off they found Christ, and God did a radical miracle in my father's life (he didn't realize till 13 years later that God had taken away any withdrawal symptoms - and dad had been through the DT's when in prison so he knew what that was about). Also, we failed to listen my wonderful Grandfather as he explained from Scripture why some of what we were believing as SDA's was wrong. My folks didn't want to listen, and had accepted SDA pat answers. If we had listened, our lives may have been different. But whatever the case, I thank Him for how He has lead throughout my life, and I praise Him for His grace now. Whom in Heaven do I have besides Jesus! He loves us so! If you fear leaving because of others opinions or fear of losing your salvation, friend, please know, Jesus said that whosoever believeth in Him shall be saved, not whosoever believeth in Me plus is an Adventist, or any other religion. It is a personal walk with Him one-on-one. You are saved by grace. And I already hear....but...but..but...what about clean living, etc. All these things are great if it is His love motivating you, but trust me, none of it saves you! We dishonor HIs blood He shed for us when we think anything we do helps us secure our salvation. Jesus died for ALL Sins and then sat up at the right hand of the Father in heaven. It's yours to receive! Totally FREE! Standing on the Rock of Christ Jesus, and not the Table of Stones. Sherry Reinbold | ||
| Chyna |
Dear Sherry, Thank you so much for sharing your story with us :). It is awesome to witness your understanding of salvation. You are right, once you start studying the Bible there is no way one can stay in Adventism. Chyna | ||
| Chuckiej |
Well, as a newbie, I guess I'll share. Chyna, I'll have to disagree w/ you b/c I study the Bible and am still in the SDA church. I'm a 4th generation SDA. My great-grandmother (still kickin at 95, praise God!) converted to Adventism in Memphis, TN in the 30's I think. Two of her daughters, including my grandmother, also became SDA, and she raised my mom in the church. My dad is a non-practicing Baptist, so he felt comfortable leaving it to my mom to raise me and my sister SDA. From the time we were pretty young (my sis is 7 years older than I) the two of us would question some SDA doctrines. Particularly jewelry, alcohol, and EGW. We would usually talk about it late Friday night after mom was asleep to avoid confrontation. My sis went away to college and rebelled, living a lifestyle that would worry any family member, SDA or not. She eventually rededicated her life to Christ, still in the SDA church. I went to and SDA college, and a funny thing happened my Jr year. Although separated by 640 miles, and not discussing it, my sis and I began to discover rightousness by faith. One day, we struck up a conversation about it. We were both like "You mean you found that out too! Why didn't they ever teach us this in church!" We began digging deeper into SDA doctrines that we found dubious, and found no merit in them. EGW is a particularly touchy issue for her. Her daughter was in a church play, and one of her lines was "according to our prophet Ellen G. White . . ." it irked my sister for days. I'm very thankful that I had her to support me in my spiritual journey. Most of my family and extended family is SDA, so I doubt I would've received any encouragement for my critical attitude from anyone else close to me. As to why I'm still SDA? It does irk me when someone in front of the church will say something about "the Spirit of Prophecy" or "the Remnant Church", but the fact is that I would have those reactions at any other church I attended. I still believe in the 7th day Sabbath and, so-called "soul-sleep", so I'd be uneasy about hearing people speak contrary to what I believe on those issues as well. Plus, I have enormous "emotional capital" invested in SDAism, due to family and friends, so I figure that leaving won't solve my problem, and might create a lot more, so I'll just stick around. Well that's my story, I guess it's a work in progress. Nice to meet you all. Chuck | ||
| Violet |
Dear Chuck, I thought I would never attend a Sunday church either, but I did for the first time as a family yesterday. You are right there was a knee jerk time when the pastor talked about the theif on the cross meeting with Jesus the next day in heaven. But right at that moment I prayed for Jesus to either bring me to an understanding about what the pastor was saying, or use me as a witness to the members of this church to bring them to better understanding. I'm not for sure which way it will go. I'll let you know in the future. Probably what was ment in the statement that you could not stay in the SDA orginization after you study the Bible is that the more you compare their basic beliefs with the Bible it is very hard to see people being denied baptism because they smoke, or because they do not accept the EGW writitngs. If you say that your church does not make them wait until they do these things then they are not really an SDA church, because they are going against their 27 fundamental beliefs. I say these things in love, because I an going through this at this very time. I have had to walk away from my lifelong friends because they cannot accept me as a grace filled Christian. They think I am trying to get out of the Sabbath ect to make my life easier. Instead of realizing that it would actually be easier to stay a SDA and go on as usual. But I have so much more peace in Jesus knowing that my salvation is secure instead of always worrying that I may slip and fall and loose my eternal life. I pray many blessings on your head as you continue to study the Word of God. Read Hebrews 4 and answer this questions for me. If the Sabbath was still required then why were the Jews, remember Hebrews was written to the Jews, worried about losing their Sabbath rest. And why was a Sabbath rest still promised to them? If it was business as usual then it would of been a mute issue. Let me know what you think. Vi | ||
| Lydell |
Vi, for us it wasn't just a matter of not staying in the church after reading the Bible because of the baptism thing. It was that we knew that, while we were studying, and trying to teach our kids truth, our kids were going to be continually hearing things in Sabbath School and church that were not scriptural. And we didn't want to keep them somewhere where the love of God was not being lived out in the lives of the people, and that was most certainly the case where we were. We kept asking ourselves what we would do if a friend said they wanted to attend church with us. We knew it wasn't a safe place. They would not be treated with kindness and it was NOT a safe place doctrinally either. So Vi, and Sherry, how did church go? We had an interesting day yesterday. It was the first time we have heard a sermon on the sabbath in 10 years. And a most excellent sermon it was addressing resting in the true sabbath, Christ. | ||
| Violet |
I enjoyed the sermon about the amount of faith needed to get into heaven. I'll post my twist on it later. Also how refreshing it was to walk into a Ss class and the focus was Jesus. They were starting a study on "The Jesus I never knew" The teacher said every Lent she reads a book on the life of Jesus, and spends the 40 days focusing on His life. How Beautiful! I'm not sure what Lent is all about and why you never hear about it in the SDA orginization. But the little bit I have read about it seems to be a very beautiful concept. Any input? Vi PS. we also left because of the kids and the teaching. But if you look at the baptisimal vows it sums up the whole thing. Grace plus works. When you see that, you know it's not where a grace filled person wants to be. | ||
| Sherry2 |
I really believe God is working in the SDA church to change it from the inside out. I've seen people much more accepted (in some areas) when they leave then usual. And ofcourse I maintain contact with many members at Jon's church. I really got to see a picture of how God can use us formers to bridge the gap. So many people are watching me so closely to see what I do, how I live, will I fall into some destitute sin so they can point at it and say, "See, that's what happens when people leave the Adventist church." God has and is continuing to stretch me by putting me in the middle like this. Learning to be like Paul, who was a Jew for the Jew, a Gentile for the Gentile, that one may be one to Christ. Love one another, and love your enemies - two things God is developing in me by the power of His Spirit...Lord knows I can't do it without Him. I was talking to one of my SDA friends whose father has just been diagnosed bi-polar, and has suffered depression for years. He's SDA by name, but hasn't gone in years, but won't go anywhere else. So, by God's grace, I gently asked her if she think her father understood salvation. She said she didn't know. And I told her that he needed to know that it is through Jesus Christ alone that he is saved, and that he doesn't have to be Adventist to be saved. It's through Jesus alone. She agreed with me (are you wowwed?), and said she really wanted to talk to him about salvation. I encouraged her to do that. She also mentioned that she had just picked up Philip Yancey's book "Reaching the Invisible God", and I have been reading it too, so I affirmed what a wonderful book it was. She hopes to share it with her dad. So these are the inroads He is making. Last summer my husband signed us up for Family Camp at Camp Au Sable. I wasn't thrilled but there again lays me working with God on it. I met a man who said he was a 4th generation Adventist, but first generation Christian. That caught my attention, so I caught up with him later to ask him questions. We talked about the New Covenant, and he was a New Covenant believer with security in his salvation. It was awesome! He shared that he wanted me to pray for him as he was going to be the chairperson at the Adventist school, and he had a burden to see that the Gospel was correctly shared with our young people. That is so amazing. I know that I could never stay. It was a death sentence for me. And I cannot support the denomination in any way because of their claims to be the True Remnant Church, which is not Biblically founded...a remnant people...yes, a remnant organization...never. But for those who feel God has called them to stay till they get thrown out, well they need our prayers for protection and wisdom. That's sort-of how it was for Paul too. He preached every Sabbath till they finally totally rejected him and threw him out. I've been going to Calvary Baptist since last June. It was a healing spot for me since I knew many of the women from a Bible study group for Mothers of small children for 3 years. I see now why God placed me there for this season. I had checked out other churches but this is where I was called back to. And now, it is time for the next step wherever that may be. Church went well, Lydell, but still seeking. God's timing....:) | ||
| Sherry2 |
Oh, and let me add that it is possible to study and stay SDA for the fact that you may have never learned to study in context or are studying with the veil over your eyes. I was a fervant studier of the Word, but it took me 20 years to see things differently. Prejudism is a hard thing to break, no matter where we're at. | ||
| Violet |
I can relate to the 20 years and now you see it differently. I spent the past 10 years hiding behind the potluck line. Thinking that as long as I was being Martha I was serving God. What I didn't relize was I was short changing me. I just happened onto an SDA web site. Looking for those 95 theses and read a statement from Revelation 22:12. It talks about Christ coming back with His reward according to what you have done. If you back up one verse you see it is talking about if you practice righouesness. The first thing my mind thought was Oh, I read about that in 1 John 3:4-8 the other day. Where you can practice sin or rightousness. In verse 9 it tells you that no one born of God pracitces sin. So by the veil being removed from my eyes I saw (not in vision, but understood :):):) ) that Revelation was not talking about the investigative judgement but just if you followed God or Satan. 6 months ago I would of agreed with judgement. How much we can learn in so little time with the Holy Spirit! In Christ Vi | ||
| Chyna |
Dear Chuck, I said that once you start studying the Bible there isn't a way to stay in the Adventist church, I still stand by this statement meaning that even with the good mixed into the bad in Adventist churches. There is far more danger of being taught false things and encouraged in false ways while staying in an Adventist church. You are right, you do have a strong emotional investment, which is why in another topic I asked, "Is your investment keeping you in Adventism?" Yet sadly, it is a system that feeds on itself, by making everyone dependent: spiritually, professionally, socially, etc. on the Adventist church/community, it makes it that much harder to question anything about the church, or to even leave the church because Adventism is not just a church that people attend, it becomes their identity, the air that they breathe. And why do you fear leaving? When I decided to attend a different church: a nondenominational church, I never feared losing contact with my friends or my family, never feared that they would think me spiritually fallen. yet again and again, once people leave SDAism, those within it cut them off. of course there are exceptions, but many FAFers can testify to this happening in their lives. Why? if SDAism is not harmful then why are they so frightened or disapproving of a Christian walk outside of the SDA church? Sherry, I don't believe any of the churches I've attended have ever claimed to be the "true remnant" etc. etc. that kind of extremist language is reserved for cultic groups, I'm afraid. Any God fearing, Bible believing church will acknowledge the differences between denominations do not prevent any of us from fellowshipping with one another, and that for the most part that we don't look down on different denominations for practicing minor things. This is the attitude that has provoked the most acceptance of the SDA church, because Evangelicals recognize as long as people are following the fundamental doctrine taught in the Bible, we can agree to disagree on minor points. However, it is that deception that Adventism is only different on minor doctrines that is pervasive. Instead we have learned that Adventism teaches legalism and righteousness by faith, exemplified by their minor doctrines of: IJ, Health Msg, Sabbath Keeping. Chyna | ||
| Chyna |
also, Chuck, you say, "I guess I'll stick around..." I'm going to be extremely interested in what happens to you, and what you think in the next few months, because I think (my own opinion) that God is going to be nudging you, as He often does. Right now you have no impetus because you still believe in the Sabbath. Well, I believe in the Sabbath, but in an entirely different understanding. It has to do with that whole New/Old Covenant thing. another thing? maybe try going to another church on Sunday, yes you can still keep Sabbath and go on Saturdays too, but you might be amazed at the difference. I don't know. You probably won't hear "spirit of prophecy" or "remnant church" in any churches of the Evangelical branches, unless they are referring to a biblical prophet, or you attend a more charismatic church. you'll be in my prayers. you sound remarkably calm for one attending a church where you question the fundamental doctrines and while you might feel awkward about "as our prophet EGW says ..." I guess you still haven't resolved the fact that the two doctrines you still believe in: soul-sleep, and Sabbath, were also stamped and approved of by EGW as well. It's a tortuous path out, but somehow, I have faith that God will see you through it. Chyna | ||
| Chyna |
sorry, more thoughts, "leaving will create more problems." you're absolutely right it will cause problems, but you might want to think of how it's akin to emotional blackmail that if you leave the SDA church the relationships you have with SDAs will change dramatically. as I pointed out to Valerie, I have lots of nonChristian friends, and I love them and accept them no matter what. And they have radically different beliefs. They believe diametrically opposite things like I believe in God, they don't! But I still love them, and want to spend time with them. so why can't SDAs still accept those that leave? questions, questions, questions. | ||
| Sherry2 |
Chyna, I know what you're saying about Remnant. What you must understand is there is a growing subculture of Adventists who do not believe that the SDA church is the Remnant church. In fact the Head Elder preached about that the Sat. after I left....that they were not the remnant....funny thing is he got called out to a different conference shortly after and he is considered a Liberal, but he views himself as Evangelical....Honestly, the only way that SDA's face may change is from the inside from members actively taking a stand against these things. That is how the World Wide Church of God changed - from the inside members, not outside pressure. Again, God is in control. | ||
| Chyna |
As I heard it Dale Ratzlaf challenged the leaders of WWCG. Any substantiation from anyone about this? anyway, it came from the leaders down to the organization. because, within SDAism, any criticism of the church causes many to be disfellowshiped. especially any challenge of EGW. also to my understanding many SDA do not believe they are the remnant, yet they still act like it. like my ex, he acknowledged that Adventists are not the only Christians, but what he really thought that adventists were the only ones doing it right. Chyna | ||
| Chuckiej |
Hey everyone. Pray for me, I have a very bad case of what I think is the flu, and I'm going to the doc tomorrow to make sure it's not anything more serious. There's alot to reply to, and I'm gonna have to reply selectively, cuz I'm dead on my feet. I'll reply to follow up questions or anything else I missed later when I'm feeling better. Re Hebrews 4: Well, the Sabbath rest of "Today" was available under the Old Covenant (v. 7,8) so that rest isn't necessarily exclusive of the 7th day Sabbath. Also, the Jews considered the rest of Isaiah 66 to be the ultimate sabbath rest, and yet from the language, there's apparently going to be some sort of periodic Sabbath-keeping in heaven. I know that passage also refers to the new moon, but Hebrews specifically says that a Sabbath-rest remains, and my point is that the "ultimate" sabbath rest doesn't do away with the periodic one anymore than Christ's death does away the need for the Lord's Supper. Finally, although the word at issue "sabbatismos" isn't found anywhere else in the Bible, in contemporary extra-biblical texts, it's used to refer to 7th-day Sabbath-keeping. Re: EGW & "soul-sleep" and Sabbath - She may have signed off on those doctrines, but she didn't invent them. Joseph Bates introduced them to the Sabbath which he learned from a Seventh-Day Baptist. That denomination had been keeping the Sabbath for like 300 yrs before EGW, and there are historical records of Christians keeping the seventh day in the earliesst days of the church. I don't know the history of "soul-sleep" (wish I had a better word). So it's too simplistic to say "EGW believed it so it must be false." I critically examine everything and hold to the good. (I Thess 5:21) | ||
| Loneviking |
Chuck, I've been absent from posting for a few months, just lurking and watching. I just have to respond to your above post as I think you are honestly searching for answers. Your reply to Hebrews 4 is a classic example of the confusion SDA's have over the covenants. Heb. 3:18,19 and 4:5,6 says that the Hebrews were NOT able to enter His rest. That rest was NOT available to the Jews. What does Heb. 4:8 say? 'For IF Joshua had given them (the Jews) rest, He (notice the capitalization there and that 'Jesus' in the Hebrew language is 'Yeshua' or 'Joshua')would not have spoken of another day after that.' Further, Heb. 4:9 says that there 'remains'--for something to remain, something has to be taken away. The Sabbath commandment was part of the ten commandments, which in turn was the foundation for the old covenant. Galatians 3:19 says specifically that the Law was added, and that it was a temporary measure. So, when EGW says that the 'Great Controversy' is all about Gods' law and that the Law is eternal---she is absolutely wrong according to Paul. There are two fundamentally different covenants--the Old and the New. Until you get a grasp on this, you just cannot understand how far off SDA theology is. Bill S.... | ||
| Lydell |
Chuckiej, all of us formers eventually have to come around to re-studying the Old/New Covenantissue without outside resources. Part of that study will take you back to go thru Galatians from beginning to end. It is when we do that we see things we hadn't noticed before. Such as 2:16 ...by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. See, I Cor. 6:11 What does that leave for you to do? 2:19 I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. You are dead to the law so that you can be married to a new spouse, Christ. To go back to hanging onto the law is to commit adultery. 3:17 the law came 430 years after the promise was made to Abraham, it was not given at creation 3:19 What was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions UNTIL the Seed should come to whom the promise was made 3:23 before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed 3:24 the law was our tutor (literally the "paidagogos" or boy leader, who was a slave who took the child to the teacher, when the child reached maturity the tutors job had ended)--to bring us to Christ.--that we might be justified by faith. 4:1-2 the heir is under guardians and stewards --until the time appointed by the father 4:3-5 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent Christ to redeem those who were under the law that we might receive the adoption as sons. We are not foster children but adopted fully as sons and daughters of God, and our position in the family is secure. 4: 9-10 we are warned not to return to the weak and beggarly elements such as observing days that leads to bondage. 4:4 if we attempt to be justified by law, then we have fallen from grace. 5:18 if we are led by the Spirit then He is now our teacher, not the tutor law. | ||
| Chuckiej |
Just checking before I go to the doctors office. A few quickies: Re Heb. 4: The writer quotes Psalm 95:7 which asks people not to harden their hearts like their fathers in the wilderness. Joshua was unable to give them rest because of their hard hearts, so the promise was repeated by God through David (still old covenant), with the warning not to act like people in Joshua's time. They weren't able to rest b/c of the hardness of their hearts, not b/c the rest was unavailable. Re being Justified: I NEVER EVER said that I was justified by keeping the Sabbath. EVER. No work that I do can put me right with God and erase my sin. Only Christ's atoning sacrifice can do that. I am not keeping the Sabbath, or refraining from stealing, or not blaspheming IN ORDER TO BE saved, but because I AM saved. Most of the verses you quoted speak about justification, on which we're in total agreement. Galatians 3:21 says the law can't make you righteous. I know that. I would only be cheating on Jesus if I counted on the law to save me, something it cannot do. RE Galatians 4. It amazes me that people use this one against the Sabbath, since that is so obviously NOT what it is talking about. Paul begins the chapter talking to his fellow Jews, but then he switches gears in v. 8, and talks about a time when his readers "knew not God" and "did service to them which by nature are no gods." Then he goes on to upbraid them for observing days months and years. Paul is obviously talking here to gentiles who are still observing pagan customs. Would he say that fellow, faithful Jews didn't know God and served something that was no god? Of course not. The days, months and years here do not have the Sabbath or any other Jewish custom in view, b/c Paul isn't talking to Jews here. Well, I'm off. I'll check back later. Chuck | ||
| Darrell |
Chuck, in the context of Galatians, Paul is discussing why the believers should not be circumcised, and put themselves under the old covenant. So when he talks about going back to the "weak and worthless elemental things" he must be referring to the old covenant laws. He is using language to show them that if they adopt Jewish rituals it is of the same value as if they had gone back to their pagan customs. | ||
| Sherry2 |
Well Chuck that is the SDA pat answer to that text, but if from front to finish Paul is dealing with circumsion and keeping the law, why does he switch to about paganism for just one verse? That is taking it out of context. And secondly, if you will go back Old Testament the holidays of the Jewish people were always spoken of when jointly as feast days, new moons sabbaths, and appointed feasts which is yearly, monthly, weekly and on specific days. Hos. 2:11, 1 Chron. 23:31, Eze. 45:17..these are a few of them. See the whole thing was about the Jews trying to get them to circumsize and keep the law...if you just look at those vs. 8, 9 but the whole chapter must be taken into context, and the book itself with the subject at hand...doesn't he go on in vs.11-20 about has he labored in vain, they once would've plucked their eyes out for him, but now he has become their enemy because of the truth, then straight into vs. 21 "Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?"...and keep on reading. These were Gentiles trying to be Jews because the Jews were pushing them to do this...as though they could get more favor with God. Anyhow, it takes time.... |
