| Author | Message | ||
| Dale |
Thanks to all above for your prayers and words of support! Though we have not met, you all seem like family and your words are comforting. My brother's death was very unexpected. With the assurance that we might KNOW that we have eternal life, I am looking forward to seeing him again! No doubt about it. Colleen, your comments about the "great internal compromise and anxiety" that grace oriented SDA pastors face must indeed be extremely difficult, especially as time goes on. I would agree that at some point each will have to make a decison. I recall my own struggles over the past several years as my convictions became greater and greater and yet I held onto the SDA church hoping that it would change. When I finally acknowledged that it would not, and when I had at last made my decision to leave, a burden somewhat unrecognized was lifted. It was then that I felt true freedom in Christ that Paul talked about so often. It was the "lifting of the veil" and stepping from darkness into the light of His New Covenant. Praise to the Lamb! Dale | ||
| Jay |
Dale, may the grace and love of our Saviour bring comfort to you tonight. I am so sorry that you have lost your brother. Jay | ||
| Cindy |
Dale, Hi! I send to you my condolences also... Death is still an enemy I hate!! (despite the wonderful assurance we have of eternal life and no more separations!) I've just recently moved; and, although I haven't had my friends die, still the separation across country has been painful. My friends were so much a part of my life that it is a grief process; although much less than your situation... I like this German proverb: "Those who live in the Lord never see each other for the last time..." Loved your comment, "I felt true freedom in Christ that Paul talked about so often. It was the "lifting of the veil" and stepping from darkness into the light of His New Covenant". The glory of living in the New Covenant, with the veil lifted (as explained in 2 Corinthians 3), gives a sense of confidence and freedom and light!...all focused on the completely finished work of Christ for us; and offered to us absolutely free! When I get in despair or a worry mode of thinking, I try to focus on the Sovereignity of God and the reality of His Presence in the midst of whatever circumstances I'm in... His promises in Scripture are calming to me. The "Comforter" has been with me many times and I am grateful to Him! Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Max |
Dear Dale, With respect to the burial of your brother, I wish to quote Romans 8:31-39 from the Contemporary English Version: What can we say about all this? If God is on or side, can anyone be against us? God did not keep back his own Son, but he gave him for us. If God did this, won't he freely give us everything else? If God says his chosen ones are acceptable to him, can anyone bring charges against them? Or can anyone condemn them? No indeed! Christ died and was raised to ife, and now he is at God's right side, speaking to him for us. Can anythng separate us from the love of Christ? Can trouble, suffering, and hard times, or hunger and nakedness, or danger and death? It is exactly as the Scriptures say, "For we face death all day long. We are like sheep on their way to be butchered." In everythng we have won more than a victory because of Christ who loves us. I am sure that nothing can separate us from God's love -- not life or death, not angels or spirits, not the present or the future, and not powers above or powers below. Nothing in all creation can separate us from God's love for us in Christ Jesus our Lord! | ||
| Dale |
Thanks Jay, Cindy, and Max! Dale | ||
| Christianbiker |
I'm fairly new on the forum but I just have to say how I enjoyed this topic and identify with it. I preached God's love and grace for the past 8 years in my church but I always felt like an outsider when I went to the SDA Workers meetings. I felt I didn't belong as I knew I differed so drastically from 90% of the other pastors and the conference. I ended up having a serious burn-out 2 years ago and that really was a blessing in disguise because it gave me the motivation to leave SDA pastoral ministry. During my 8 months + of burn-out I received not one phone call from any of the 7 other SDA pastors in my city to see how I was doing. That really hurt. I thought "so much for the caring church". I was fortunate that I had been very involved with the Christian Motorcycle Association and they were a strong support for me. Just Christians loving each other. A novel idea! During my burn-out I developed a deep friendship with a pastor of non-denominational church who was trained as a "spiritual director". This is a concept coming out of the Catholic church. He walked with me in my spiritual journey, not telling me what to do but just directing me to scripture to see what God was wanting to say to me. He himself had come out of a very legalistic denominational upbringing and so he understood how difficult and painful it was. I praise God for him. He was the only one I could go to and be totally honest other than my wife. I want to recommend a book that he wrote a couple of years ago entitled, "The River Within". His name is Jeff Imbach. That book has done so much to keep me centered on Christ during my journey out of paid ministry. I urge you to check it out. It will arouse such a desire for living your life with passion but living it centered on the Holy Spirit who dwells within you. The whole idea of the book comes from the account of Jesus speaking to the woman at the well when he said, "he who believeth in my, out of him shall flow rivers of living water". Blessings to you all. I'll try to get on this forum more often. Christian biker from the North | ||
| Cindy |
Welcome Christian Biker! Thank-you for sharing your story. You sound like you have a wonderful, Christ-centered attitude and assurance! Keep coming back and tell us more about your transition... Do you attend 'church' anywhere? Has it been difficult finding other gainful employment? That book you recommend sounds interesting... Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Christianbiker and Biker-ette, Hey, it's been close to 2 months since you appeared! Good to hear from you;-)) Maryann | ||
| Dan_2 |
Thank you Christian Biker for sharing your spiritual journey! Even though I left Adventism over 6 years ago, I still find much needed encouragement and support from letters such as yours! Dale, just read your email. Thank you for your courage and faith during difficult times. It encourages my heart to see others (who don't know you) supporting you with their thoughts and prayers. This forum is so needed! Special thanks to those who have created and manage this site!--Dan Snyder | ||
| Christianbiker |
Cindy Yes I attend church semi-regularly. I actually attend the church I pastored when I resigned. They are good friends of mine and many of them are on a similar spiritual journey as I am though not as far along. Many of them have not bought into the whole SDA package for years. I also attend a non-denominational church on Sat.night and Sun. and am very comfortable there as well. I plan to start a small group study in our home with mainly SDA's from my church who are disappointed with Adventism and wanting to move on. I guess I would say that I feel comfortable worshiping any day of the week with any Christian who is really seeking to walk with Christ. Saturday has no special significance to me now for I really wish to experience the true Sabbath rest 7 days a week. I certainly understand how other Christians feel who have left a denomination they have been raised in all their life to join Adventism. It is very tramatic and you ask yourself what if I am wrong? It is at those times I go back to the messages in Hebrews, Galations, and Romans and realize again that I am on the right road. Yes Dan I appreciate this forum as well. The internet is a wonderful way to communicate with people who are on the same road as you are. I have to chuckle with Roy Adams comments about people getting on the net with their comments and criticisms. He and others would prefer that only the theological leaders of the church publish theological arguments or comments. I say Praise God for the internet. God can use it to bring change for the better and to reveal tired and sick theology that needs to be put to rest. Such as 1844 etc.,etc. So just keep on sharing your ideas and confictions friends. | ||
| Violet |
I just stumbled onto a quote from Child Guidance p451, where a man was suffering from phthisic. I put this into a medical dictionary and came out with phthisis a form of wasting disease. Anyway he wanted The Whites to pray for him, they were so tired from the "meeting" that they decided to pray if they should pray for him. God told her "no" so she refused to pray for the man. He then confessed to "self abuse" from his boyhood on up. I was so disgusted that a woman could be so high and mighty in this way. This man really believed in her and she had to turn it into you are not go enough for me to waste my time on you. I would love to see a review of this incident in the Review and Herald. I cannot recall Jesus ever asking the cripled man to show their hands to see if they had hairy palms before he healed them. ;) | ||
| Max |
Violet, If the Review ever reviewed this incident I can guarantee you they would paint EGW as the virgin Mary and that her children came from the same place RCCs say "the brothers of Jesus" came from. Clue: Not Mary. Not in a thousand ages of the universe. Guaranteed, MC | ||
| Max |
Violet, I don't know you very well. So just don't take my above post too literally. the kernel of truth I was trying to convey is this: It is in the hierarchy's financial interest to keep EGW sinless-by- works AFTER her salvation, not before. Thus she fell into the same trap some who are posting this website have fallen into: Before Christ, salvation depends on grace alone. After salvation it depends on grace plus works. mc | ||
| Violet |
I have finally got one of my Adventist friends to start talking about Ellen White. She is very ingrained in that EGW is a prophet and she had a special realtionship with God and He told her things no one else knew. I would like to get a copy of the Desire of Ages Project but cannot find a source to do so. Does any one know how I can do that? | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Hello Violet, Is it that you just want a copy of the book or is there some special project attached to this book? If it is simply the book you want, go to your nearest SDA Church and ask for one. Or if you get 3abn on your television, they will send you one free I think. God Bless you in your studying! your sister in Christ, DtB | ||
| Violet |
No, I am not looking for the Desire of Ages, I am looking for the "Desire of Ages Project" Where it was looked into and found that mose of the book was plageriazed. I believe the project was commissioned in the late 80's or early 90's. It is my understanding that Fred Veltman wrote the article or report. | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Violet, check out this site. Here is Veltman's report and overall review. Just cut and paste this address into your address line that probably now reads http://www.formeradventist.com and then click on go and there you are! Remember to bookmark it for one of your favorite places as it has much needed information that I believe you will find usefull and beneficial to you. http://www.fortunecity.com/millennium/lincoln/666/veltman/veltman.htm Blessings to you in your research, DtB, your sister in Christ Jesus | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Violet again, After you read the comments on the address that I posted then just below that you can click on the "home page" or "index." There is a whole lot of good information there. Have fun! :) DtB | ||
| Andrew_adams |
Hello everyone, just reading today and found this in Early Writings page 233, par. 2, The preaching of definite time called forth great opposition from all classes, from the minister in the pulpit down to the most reckless, heaven-daring sinner. "No man knoweth the day nor the hour," was heard from the hypocritical minister and the bold scoffer. Neither would be instructed and corrected by those who were pointing to the year when they believed the I asked on another forum why was the prophet calling Matt. and Mark hypocritical and scoffers? This is what I got in return; I am not sure how this relates to the topic but EGW is refering to the early Advent movement of the 1800's and those that made fun of it (mockery). This obviously did not include Matthew and Mark. While you could say a similar principle is involved, and I might at least somewhat agree with that, the circumstances were different. I have been tempted more than once to make fun of say a JW for date setting. But it is easy to become complacent in this attitude and be like the 5 foolish virgins or worse, and that I believe is what EGW is trying to get at--attitude. Few if any would dispute that EGW and the Bible are both against date setting. If she was so against date setting, then why did she do it? AA | ||
| Violet |
It's funny Andrew I was reading the very same passage out of the Cultric Doctrine at lunch today. I went to Matthew 24 and read where no man would know the time and date. As I read this passage several times I had to wonder if it was talking about the time of the second coming or the destruction of the temple. Is there another verse in the Bible that talks about no man knowing the time of the second coming? |
