| Author | Message | ||
| Therese |
The SDA seclusion helps to fosters the SDA system with its abuses and corruptions. I thought SDA was the only truth and better than other religions and communities. I lived a pretty secluded SDA life for nearly 20 years. However, when I began to venture outside of SDA circles (other churches, public school for my son, made friends with non-SDAs, took in some "worldly amusements")I began to have a means of comparison. The scales began to fall off my eyes and I started to see the dysfuction and error in SDA. Is the SDA seclusion something that has just happened and came about on its own? Or, is it deliberately contrived by the SDA organization to keep people ignorant and thus in the SDA Church? What do you all think? Therese | ||
| Violet |
They have to keep you afraid to co-mingle with others or you might stumble onto the truth of the Bible. My 8 year old was in an SDA school for two years and when she started in public school she was so far behind in reading that she had to be referred to a special reading lab. After 1 1/2 years she tested at 97% last week. In reality the only way the orginization can keep the schools going is to make sure that the people are so scared of putting their kids with those awful people who have birthday parties on Saturday or go to football games on Friday night. | ||
| Therese |
Violet, You are so right. I didn't grow up SDA, but joined before my son was born. I thought the SDA school in the area looked deficient, but was told it was much much better than public schools. Also, Ellen White said the worst SDA school is better than the best public school. It didn't look right to me, so I home schooled my son for kindergarden and 1st grade. I taught him to read and do basic math. A new teacher came to the SDA school who was very good. I put my son in at that time and he did well. She was a good teacher, but had a very hard job doing 3 grades with some ADHD & BD kids. The upper grade teacher had a lot of problems and it didn't look to me like the kids were learning anything there, so with my knees knocking I put my son into public school at 6th grade. I was pleasantly surprised. It was a wholesome environment, Christians were respected and the teaching was excellent. He did very well. It was the best thing I did for him and the scales began to fall off my eyes. The local SDAs, however, did not like it and gave us the cold shoulder and made comments implying that our son would be lost, etc. Also, at church there was favoritism and special treatment for the kids in SDA school. There were special church programs the church school kids participated in, special prayers offered for them, and even a special blessing in front of the church for only the 8th grade graduates of the church school each year while the graduates of other schools looked on. Most of the kids at this church were not going to church school. They were made to feel second class. Before my son started high school,I checked out the academic standing at the local public high school and several SDA academies. The SDA academies were much lower (especially ACT scores) that the state average and the local public high school. The local SDA academy in my area has had some very severe behavior problems with its kids involving assault and police involvement. Also, there has been several inappropriate relationships with staff and students. The administration trys to pooh pooh it away and even blame the victims. My experience with the SDA school system is that it is clearly a deficient program. Therese | ||
| Violet |
Therese, I am so sorry you and your family had to go through that, but I am so proud of you for standing up to what you feel is right. I feel the most important part of a child's education is an involved parent and that you seem to be. Violet | ||
| Valm |
Hi there. I went to a public school most of my education. And went I went away to an SDA University, I was always asked "What Academy are you from?" And when I told them I went to a public school adult people would look on me with either sympathy or suspecion that I was not a proper SDA young lady. When my classmates found out they would fill me in on the ropes of being in an SDA system. Such as: how to sneak out on unauthorized dates, how to go to the moives and not get caught, how to get a pass before the Sabbath was over for a date, ect....I was astounded at the chronic lying my classmates had done all of their lives!!! The adults were right. I never really did make a good fit. I never had developed the habit of dishonesty and just couldn't. And I just didn't get all of the other cultural rules that did not apply to life on the outside. I spoke with my sister in law who is homeschooling her two older daughters while also breast feeding a one year old and chasing a three year old. I asked her why she did not put the in the church school and it was because she was stilll concerned about the "bad influence" of a few of the kids who attended!! Oh the pressure to make sure your kids turn out perfect!!!! One of my other brothers has two 5 year old boys. They are not allowed to have anything to do with preschool workbooks, letters and numbers. Why? Because EGW counseled that children should not have formal schooling until they are 8!!! These children are already showing significant fine motor and cognitive delays based on my personal knowledge of child development. They have minimal exsposure to other children or life in general and it shows. In addition they are showing classic ADHD symptoms, which is rampant in my family. They will hardly get the intensive interventions they will need to succeed in the environment they are in. I sometime ACHE for my neices and nephews. The fear that my family has on outside influence and education even spills over into the type of things I can buy for them. I would love to send them Ranger Rick magazine but since they have holiday issues and occasional references to evoluationary processes it is out of the question. Any thing with cartoon characters is also off limits, including Sesame Street, Bear in the Big Blue House, or Blues Clues!! I almost resort to sending money instead of gifts, but I feel like they get so little I do not want to send money that will go to clothes and unfun stuff. Those are my experiences with SDA and education. I am so relieved not to live under that pressure. Valerie | ||
| Chyna |
wow. Lori, thank you so much for starting the discussion on SDA schools! I had no idea! Colleen had told me much much earlier that within the schools there was a class system where children that had only one SDA parent were looked down on etc., but I had no idea, i did have some idea, of how academically inferior they were! you know, it is ironic that one of the things my ex-b/f admired about me in the beginning was my intellect. I attended a college that turned out Rhodes Scholars, Fulbright Scholars, one U.S. President, the Prince of Monaco, has been visited by Chelsea Clinton, Natalie Portman (for possible matriculation), as well as currently houses the daughters of Peter Jennings, Al Greenspan, and Supreme Court Judge Scalia. needless to say, I am one smart cookie. anyway, so our panultimate fight was about our children's education! I don't know how we got on the subject of education, but soon it became clear that he wanted our children (it was a very real argument at the time) to only attend SDA schools! I attended public school for almost all of my life, and then went on to a small private college, but I never thought it was bad. I would have totally considered sending my children to an academically sound Christian school. but in his eyes, there would be no sound teaching in regular Christian schools they had to be Adventist. And then, at that point in time, it became very clear that he felt he was being attacked or criticized for attending SDA schools all his life. and quite honestly yes! I did look down on them because even in regular 'ole Christian schools and colleges they aren't as always academically sound, so when he told me aced those classes, it didn't seem very impressive to me. I was more worried about doctrine! being taught at the schools. I thought that my ex didn't believe in anything EGW wrote about because he called himself a 'big critic' of EGW, but I certainly thought there were wide open possibilities for our future children to be taught wrong doctrine! it is so amazing how clear things get when you discuss what you want for your children. To him that meant SDA schools, SDA religion, SDA lifestyle. For me, it meant the diametrical opposite to that. I think then, is when he realized that he wasn't going to be able to convert me. Chyna | ||
| Chyna |
upon further reflection I think my ex has a lot of problems with SDAs but doesn't voice them (especially not to me) because his whole cause was to plug for SDA, you know? to convert me, therefore he couldn't really voice anything to me, as he could to a fellow jaded SDA young'un :). while he was at Walla Walla, he told me he regularly visited Whitman College and made friends there, even dated a nonChristian girl from there -- go to bars, and went out dancing etc. when he was on a "student" mission trip to China, he dated a nonChristian Chinese girl. Hm, I am seeing a pattern, he dated me a "nonAdventist" Christian. when we were first dating he read aloud to me from Steve Daily's book on Adventism (the father of his last ex-g/f before me). He read this passage that talked about how the church should focus less on controlling its members behaviors and focus more on following God. I gave him this odd look and said, "There are MANY MANY churches that are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO beyond that already, or it's not even a question about condoning or condemning legalism, and I don't see why I would want to join a church that is like that and is fighting its way out of it." also, his sexual experience far outweighed any standard I had ever heard taught in the churches I had attended. It was FAR FAR FAR more lenient than I had ever been taught. Yet (mistakenly), here I thought I was in a relationship with a spiritually mature Christian. he was much more liberal about the standard than I was. the first time I found out about it, I wept so much. I felt so badly that he had shared all these intimate things with all these women before me. it was like he had saved nothing. so yes, he is really conflicted, but he still feels like Adventism is going to work :). His dad is an elder in the church. As much of a 'rebel' he tried to be, he really was the most traditional of Adventists. Chyna | ||
| Chyna |
and ditto about the eerie adventist communities! Right down the road from my ex's family's home was, lo and behold, another Adventist missionary family! I definitely thought the Adventist community was close knit! little did I realize that this closeness is a closeness fostered by cultic thinking. | ||
| Chyna |
you know, it's really weird that the focus of SDA's on Sabbath Keeping is so strong that from anecdotal comments from this site reveal that many young SDAs are really living these lives that show little respect for holy living ... I know for a fact that two of my ex's friends had to get married because of pregnancy before marriage. but they feel like they are fine as long as they "observe" the sabbath because that way they are "maintaining" their Salvation and clinging to the unique special truths of Adventism. it requires a lot less of you to (well if you're not a mom) while away the hours on a lazy Saturday afternoon than it does to actually obey and respect your parents, not lie, not have pre-marital sex. etc. you know what my EX told me when we were discussing sexual misconduct? He told me that God is gracious and forgives everything. which is true, but is certainly no leeway for couples to do everything with each other before marriage. He told me that all of his Christian girlfriends always wanted to have pre-marital sex. yeah, I was really confused by that because it seems that Adventists don't understand grace on a large scale, but use it when it is convenient to get out of sins they think are 'little.' guess they weren't pounded with the Scriptures talking about how if God can trust you with the little things, He will entrust you with great things in the kingdom of heaven. or Psalm 19, "How can a young man keep his way pure?" | ||
| Chyna |
lastly (posting like mad tonight), the biggest problem I had with him was his integrity. I asked him, "how could you vow that we would not break up over our religious differences, and then do exactly that?" "How could you have lied to me about what you actually wanted/believe?" I sent these burning questions to him because it was Seventh Day Adventism that prompted him to do these things, to think that compromising his integrity on these matters was a better choice than holding on to his integrity. I told him that compromising your integrity is certainly not in line with what God teaches us in the Bible! And that if it is not in line with God's teaching then it has to be sinful, and for him to *really* question an institution that makes him compromise his integrity in VERY LARGE ISSUES. g'night! Chyna | ||
| Lori |
Chyna, Your last post is what made me think of this: The Virtue that the Bible talks about is based upon humility. Virtue based upon humility responds differently than the virtue that legalist possess. For there virtue is based upon arrogance. The virtue of legalism is like the stoicism of the Romans (both based on arrogance), "I am happy because I have virtue". The Biblical virtue is based upon "Bible doctrine is in my soul, therefore I am happy". The one is based upon ME, ME, ME. The other is based upon Christ! A virtue based upon "me" can change based upon my circumstance. Your 'ex' probably had no idea that he had contradicted himself until you told him so. A virtue based upon Christ changes me when circumstances change. The humility based virtue leaves you teachable, you are able to learn because you realize you don't know all the answers. Arrogant virtue already knows everything and has nothing to learn. | ||
| Valm |
Chyna, Premarital sex is considered taboo in the SDA faith. Many young people forget about this during their hormonal surges. But trust me it is considered taboo. I remember my brother once telling me he knew when a SDA girl wanted to have sex with him, because instead of telling him so she would just make a point of putting her hand on his thigh. I thought that was funny with regards to the fact that his non SDA girls were straight forward about it and the SDA ones couldn't be. I also remember a fellow nursing student getting pregnant and when I asked her why she did not use precautions she told me that that would have been premeditated sin and seemed so much worse than living under the pretense of loosing control!!! In reading your posts and thinking about my experiences with SDA young people, I see that there were even mores on how to go about sinning in the proper fashion!!! I am also seeing the situation of many people who go through out their lives within Adventism. Their hearts and interest are simply not in keeping this faith system, but they can not find a way to leave it. It is like a ball and chain they can't relinquish. So they just find a set of rules to get around the set of rules Adventism has for them. All of the standards in which your ex broke are expected by the SDA church to be upheld. And in my experience most students at SDA schools do uphold them. But the ones that don't just do not have their hearts in the SDA message but are still bound to it due to family ties and also because they do not know how to live outside of the SDA social structure. Valerie | ||
| Sherry2 |
Back to tithing...now I know that the church pushes it sometimes in the worst ways. But yet, I don't think there is any reason to say that a person who gives 10% to God is living according to Old Covenant. The fact is that in America we save -.4 in our savings compared to 18% saved in Japan. We are in debt horrible as a society. We don't know how to have a working budget. So if people would even give 5% to God, it'd be a great thing...you learn about your priorities by looking at your checkbook, and while some people may knock the tithing system, most people don't even come close to giving a tenth to God. I have seen many people who were giving to Him from their heart be blessed in so many ways...where as I have Christian friends who give nothing, and they don't know where the money disappears. It is like water in their hands. So whether you tithe, or give as called to give, isn't the bottom line "Are you giving from your heart out of love for God?" | ||
| Violet |
The problem I had with tithing was not giving to God 10% or more, I faithfully wrote a check every 2 weeks. (We just started a new business, so right now I have nothing to tithe) What bothered me was that it was going to the beauricratic nightmare call the general conference. With layer upon layer of waste and no one would answer questions when I asked. They just ignored me. I agree the people have very little money skills now and delayed gatification is not in their vocabulary. I saw it all to often when I supervised a credit union collection department, and now my husband owns an accounting firm so we see it in his clients too. | ||
| Sherry2 |
Yes, it does stink where the money goes. My hubby agreed with me this month to give me 50 percent of our tithe money to spend how I wish for God, and 50 percent for his SDA church. Now that is wonderful to me. I had such a ball writing out checks this month, as I felt led by the Spirit to give to certain organizations. It was just so fun! But I am thankful that he willingly wants to give money to God where we went years before without. So I turn it over to God where his 50% goes. | ||
| Andrew_adams |
People, have you ever thought of this question? The cerimonial system and the ordinances stopped at the cross, the tithe is part of this, so how did it get by the cross? AA | ||
| Violet |
I think that "tithing" as in 10% of your increase did stop at the cross. But to give offerings to help support ministers that edify you did not. As you pay your way in life's other indeavers why not in your religious ones? Do you not pay for the manager's salary at the grocery store when you buy groceries. He performs a service you consume and the company probably does charitable acts to help others therefore you give them money to see these acts go on, and they have groceries on the shelf. I think maybe the 10% is an acceptable amount that people just go with now. But it is no way mandatory from Christ. Where I got my dander up was that in the orginization I came from if you did not "tithe" to the conference you could not hold a church office, even if you gave a million dollars to the local church budget. | ||
| Chyna |
I haven't really looked too hard at tithing because I was taught the verse Malachi 3:10 "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it." so the churches I've attended have always regarded tithing as one of the promises of God of sure blessing. and if you look at the Biblical examples of giving to the church, Jesus commended the poor woman who gave two coins -- all she had in the world. And if you look at the early church how people were selling their properties to give money to the church to help the widows and the orphans etc. The concept of giving to the church has always been constant. I like the song lyric that says, "What can we give, that you have not already given? What do we have that is not already yours. All that we have are these lives we're now living" In writing this I feel convicted that I haven't really been trusting God about my finances. anyway, disclaimer, I've never been an Adventist so I've never felt like I've been supporting toxic doctrines, or the GC or whatnot. the church I'm attending now has boxes in the back where you can drop your offering discretely, there is no exact "offering" time. although we do have crosses in the room, and there are offering boxes there. I think it's meant to be a good reminder of why we give. Chyna | ||
| Andrew_adams |
Chyna, here is the text you posted; Mal. 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. 7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return? 8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. So the tithe is an ordinance, and they were nailed to the cross. Next; When Jesus made the comments about the tithe, it was still in the old test. In the new test. tithe is not required, BUT YOU CAN DO IT IF YOU WANT TO, but it is not required. There is more if you want to dig into it. Andrew Adams | ||
| Andrew_adams |
You see the problem we have here is that the old test. the tithe was paid to the sanctuary or temple, to the people that cared for the temple, in the new what ever is paid should go to the church, but the new test. temple, sanctuary or church is the people; Heb. 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. The Holy Spirit lives in the hearts of men, and women, we are the new test. temple, we are the new test. church. So if we do not need to be preached to, then we don't need a preacher, if we don't need a preacher, then we don't need a church building, if we don't need a church building, then we don't need to build great monuments to God. He doesn't dwell in temples anymore, He lives in hearts. Andrew Adams |
