| Author | Message | ||
| Doug222 |
I haven't seen this one discussed on the forum, but I'm sure its here somewhere. How many times have you heard the famous "boast" (which should be a red flag in and of itself) that "no one leaves the SDA Church because of our doctrine. People leave because they have been hurt." Hmmm, we know this isn't true. In fact, I would probaly change that statement to read, "many people leave because they have been hurt as a result of our doctrine." When you think about it, this is a very clever strategy by the enemy (which is not the SDA Church by the way). Each week many thousands (and maybe more) sit in the pews harboring significant concerns about what they have been taught, but afraid to leave because they have been brainwashed to believe no one has the truth like the SDA's--wrong as it may be. On the other hand, others leave the church, but wouldn't think of aligning themselves with one of "Babylon's Daughters." As a result, they never get the opportunity to hear the pure truth of the gospel. Finally, there is a third group. This is the group who is so imbedded in the "culture" that they accept everything that is presented to them (although if they were honest they would admit they're dying on the vine--and no one really cares as long as they keep the Sabbath and pay their tithes) Quite clever indeed. Does anyone have any statistics on the number of people who have left the church because of doctrinal differences? | ||
| Colleentinker |
I don't have the statistics you've requested; I'd like to know the same thing. We did read a statistic about a year or a year-and-a-half ago that stated that of the people that are known to have left the church during a short (2 year? I can't remember exactly; I only know it was during the mid to late '90's) period of time, only 2% went to another church. The others went into nothingness. That really says something about what they left! Colleen | ||
| Chuckiej |
A woman in church last Sabbath presented a study somebody did about people who left. I don't remember the exact number who left because of doctrine, but it was less than 10%. | ||
| Violet |
I wonder how many leave because of doctrine, but don't even know themselves that is why they are leaving. The first time I left Advenitism as a teenage it was because I was judged harshly for a typical teenage activity. I still outwardly believed in the denomination, but inwardly doubted. It was the "Ellen White says" problem. I did not agree with it but was too afraid, or stupid to see it. I would of never admitted at that time it was doctine, but it was. One of the problems is there is probably no way to get an accurate count as when you leave and ask for you name to be removed, at least in my old church, it was "apostacy", with no expaination. | ||
| Doug222 |
Coleen, You said that the fact that only 2% leave the church because of doctrine says something about what they are leaving. I'm not exactly sure what you meant by that (and I'd love to know), but that statistic tells an even sadder story about the effectiveness of the "great lie." I know that I personally believed it. In fact, I remember taking a trip to my hometown a couple years ago. A non-adventist friend was from the same area, so she asked if she could ride with me. When we got ready to come back (an eight hour trip) I borrowed a nice set of C.D. Brooks tapes from my father and proceeded to play them. I figured she was a captive audience and my goal was to get her to "accept the truth" before we got home. Well, somewhere along the way I remember her saying something to the effect of "your church believes they have all the truth don't they?" I stuck my chest out and said "of course, I wouldn't be there if I didn't." How arrogant! Even when I left the church as a young person, I still considered myself an Adventist and always knew that I would never go back to anywhere other than there--and all the time I was more lost than ever could be. Yet, my whole thought was that as long as I got back in "the church" (the ark of safety) before Jesus returned, I'd be okay. What a pitiful condition! So, yes, I can believe that only 2% of the people knowingly leave the church because of doctrine, but as Violet said, probably many more leave without realizing that the reason they're leaving is because they have a hunger that cannot be satisfied through legalism. Doug | ||
| Richardjr |
Good Subject! When I was pastor in the SDA denom. there were 3 or 4 occasions when a member wanted to leave for doctrinal reasons and specifically requested a letter of transfer rather than being marked apostazied. Only one time was i able to persuade the church board to do that. I would also like to say that since our relationship with God involves both the head and the heart it is difficult for any church to admit they were not able to meet the needs of a parishoner. | ||
| Nelda_church |
Last year when we left the church, the pastor told us to "don't worry about believing in egw" just keep coming-and keep bringing your tithe-oops-he didn't exactly say the tithe part. When that didn't work, he started tearing down the Bible. Same thing happened to my grown kids in their sda church in a smaller church. | ||
| Richardjr |
Nelda, When you left were you granted a letter, marked apostazied, or left as a member still on the books? | ||
| Violet |
Nelda, what do you mean "tearing down the Bible" Well, at least your pastor acknowledged you leaving when we sent our letter we never even heard "boo" from our pastor. | ||
| Doug222 |
Just out of curiosity, did anyone who left share your doctrinal differences with your Pastor? What was their response? What impact did your leaving have on others in the church (this question is particularly aimed at long time Adventist--and those who were considered pillars in their church)? Did it cause a riff? Do you feel you had any culpability for that? Thanks. Doug | ||
| Maryann |
Hmmmmm, I can't resist doing a short story. BTW, I have really MISSED posting here. Hopefully, I'll get to spend more time again at a later date. Here are some of the reasons that I left SDAism. I was severely isolated with only one girl near my age and 2 boys a few years younger that I saw less than 50 times a year. (There were several other kids that I saw rarely.) I was not allowed to go to school past 2nd grade for fear of me "having" to learn about sex. (Mom wanted me to go to heaven pure!) Taking music lessons were not necessary as I would have a harp in my hand very soon as the signs of the times indicated the 2nd coming momentarily. I caught quite a few colds, or rather they caught me, and they usually turned into an awful cough that lasted weeks and sometimes months. My whole being ached from the contant coughing. Sleep was difficult too. I never saw a doctor for this! After I left home, I got this awful cough and my husband brought a bottle of codine-cough syrup home and told me to try it. That was the end of my cough and I have never had longlasting coughs since I now keep a bottle of codine around! (That was a hindsight reason!) I absolutely hated alter calls and all the urging to go forward. I hated all the re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-baptisms that many went through and all the apparent sorrow that was expressed. I hated seeing my Mom spend hours at a time begging God to give her the "experience" that other's had. I hated being told that if I sinned, Mom would go to hell. (I really tried not to sin as I didn't want that to happen.) The BIGGIE for me was that I had to wear a dress ALL the time. I wore pants of some sort under it, BUT.......GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! I wore a dress when I cut, hauled and split many cords of wood each year, when I rode my horse and went rock climbing. Since I felt I looked stupid with a dress and pants underneath, I figured I'd really look stupid, so I ALWAYS wore a metal hardhat! He he he he he;-)) The greatest crime, in my mind, was my having to go through zillions of BARBED wire fences with this insane dress on!!*&#&$#%&%%#^&$%&&%$!;-(( Grrrrrrrrrrrr I hated being a second class citizen because my plumbing was a little different then the boys. I hated it! I Hated It!! I HAAAAAAAAAAAAYTED IT!! Therefore I figured that any women that had visions, was prophet and wrote books that caused me to go through barbrd wire fences with a dress on was "ALL WET!" At 18, I tossed her, religion and God! Thank God that I met many Christians during those "running" years that knew the gospel and they witnessed to me. Maryann...IBC=Insured By Christ | ||
| Andrew_adams |
I am not sure what the % is but I do know this, some years ago an SDA pastor gave me a report writtin by SDA professor at La Sierra U. He said that if the church would have handle something that happened in the 70's the church wouldn't have lost 180 pastors in the south pacific. But I believe that figure is more like most of the people that leave the SDA church leave because of the doctrine. Andrew Adams | ||
| Sherry2 |
Hi Doug, Well I did send a letter to our church, but I made sure to send it to 2 elders as well as pastor, so that something would be done with the letter. I also explained my reasons for leaving, which were at that time, needing to know my salvation was not based in a denomination, and secondly because of EGW being esteemed as the "spirit of prophecy" written about in Revelation, and tithe dollars going to build the Adventist historical village in Battle Creek. At that point I hadn't learned what I did about EGW to leave that behind for good. I had 3 pastors contact me, because I was involved in church ministry quite a bit, had been a part of the evangelism team for several Revelation seminars, and the Personal Ministries Director for sometime. Anyhow, I kept it focused on Christ when they came to talk. When the one pastor asked how I could attend the Baptist church with all their deceptions, my response was, "well I can't very well attend the SDA church either when I believe the doctrines are flawed there as well." He wanted to show me one Bible verse, and I just stopped him, and told him that on one Bible verse you will not convince me to come back. The Holy Spirit is teaching me and I am trying to read the Bible in context to the whole chapter, not just one verse. Anyhow, it's been interesting, and I am thankful for the peace that God gave me and the confidence to move forward even if I didn't understand all the reasons, I knew that the ones I had were good enough. | ||
| Nelda_church |
Actually, I had written a letter to request my name be taken off the membership list, and while the letter was enroute, the new pastor called and wanted to come to our house to meet on an individual basis his new sheeple. I thought he had already received my letter and was calling to bug us back. So, when he found out that the letter was on it's way, he began the "you don't have to believe in egw to be a member of the church " and when that didn't work, he began to point out so called errors in the Bible. You all will pray for me, I know, and I also know that I will have a less angry outlook someday. My biggest problem is the deceitful way this church operates. I would love to sue_NOT for MONEY-but that they be MADE to tell the truth on the front end. I am totally grateful that my grown daughters have come out as well. Which is amazing as I was a egwhite of the egwhites-LOL GOD is good and faithful and had I listened to the Spirit prompting me through the years when HE said "study to show thyself approved" I am sure I would have been set free long ago. As it was, GOD used someone who read herself into the church and then she bought herself a computer to research egw and then she withdrew from the church and I had to show her the error of her ways. Thank GOD for the internet-as I was reading the site she pointed out to me-I felt like I had been hit in the head with a 2 by 4. When I told my daughters that I was going to withdraw, they thought I had lost my mind.LOL They began to research to show me the errors of my ways and they then wrote the withdrawal letters to the church they attended. The result was that some of their friends shouted that they were going to hell. The pastor became totally angry and threw the computer printouts (from the truthorfables.com website) across the room. His wife would not speak to them and turned her face. etc. A quite enlightening experience had by all.LOL Anyway, thanks be to GOD for HIS mercies and patience toward us all. | ||
| Lydell |
See Nelda, the thing is, we have to come to the point of realizing that all the battles were actually allowed by the Lord. In His great mercy He chose to drive us out to freedom. And doesn't it taste sweet! | ||
| Sherry2 |
Somehow it feels as though the battle cry as gone forth from God "Let my people go!" | ||
| Dennis |
After my wife and I requested, by letter, that our names be removed from their membership records; the senior pastor(of the College View church here in Lincoln, Nebraska) wrote us a glowing letter asking for an appointment to visit and THANK US for our many years of dedicated service to Adventism. We promptly informed him that he was welcome to come at his earliest convenience. You guessed it! He never came to see us nor to THANK US as he initially indicated. Despite several delays, two letters, one email, and two phone calls, they finally voted to honor our request eight months later. In his second and final letter, the senior pastor rambled on about our possibly having been hurt by someone and offered an apology. Even though our letters and phone calls very clearly related our theological differences, he was hung up on the idea that one always leaves Adventism because they were hurt by someone and not due to their cultic doctrines. A retired SDA acqaintance recently blamed US for not finding the Gospel in Adventism. What else is new?(smile) In His amazing grace, Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Colleentinker |
Dennis, I know what you mean! One cannot study one's way out of Adventism, they say. Our pastor had the grace to take us to lunch. (We had worked closely with him for three years doing PR for the church.) He bit his tongue and didn't argue with us when we explained our thoelogical differences, and he ended up saying that as long as we weren't angry, he was happy. We assured him we were NOT angry--we were more at peace than we had eveer been. I know our situation is unusual. We were surprised. Subsequently, however, I was dilberately avoided by the wives of two of the other pastors when they accidentaly met me in the grocery store. They just don't know what to say. I do praise God for his amazing grace! Colleen | ||
| Andrew_adams |
When I found out the truth about EGW and the church docturine, I went stright to the pastors, the answers I got are here; Black SDA pastors = Well Bro. A. let me go study that and I will get back to you. Yes none of them ever got back to me. Spanish SDA pastors the same. But when I ask White SDA pastors, they said this, "Well?" Like so what. I think that most SDA pastors know the truth, but they keep telling the lie for their own reasons. People leave the SDA church for many reasons, some leave and know nothing about the so called truths. Those that know the Bible and EGW and leave, it is because of the docturine. The truth will set you free. I havent left yet, I think that there is a large mission field here, I try to tell all I know about the White Lie. AA | ||
| Lori |
Do you think that the majority of SDA minister KNOW that there denomination is based upon a lie? I guess it's easier to accept that they are deceived than to believe that they KNOW and choose to ignore it. Of course, I believe that some of them do know and have suppressed the truth. Based on the number of pastors you personally questioned do you think that more than 50% of Adventist pastors KNOW they represent a lie? |
