| Author | Message | ||
| Nate |
I recently went to a campmeeting near us. It was amazing to see how far My wife and I have come in our feelings about the chruch. We felt truly like fish out of water. It felt sooooo dysfucntional. Campmeeting is where the historical Adventists congregate much to the exclusion of the evangelical wing. Even though I no longer consider myself Adventist, I have mostly been around the evangelicals these days and they are much more into Grace and much less into the "ISM" of Adventism. So campmeeting was truly a shock to my system. What really got us was the stack of Clear Word Bibles in the ABC. They were really pushing them. But the end of the week they had sold the entire inventory which was significant. We wanted to cry or get sick or something. It is so sad. we must [pray for the eyes of our brothers and sisters in Adventism to be opened. God Bless, In Christ, Nate | ||
| Sherry2 |
I know exactly what you are saying, Nate. This summer I went with my husband and folks for the day. It made me ill listening to testimony after testimony of people sharing how they came back to the Truth, and why the other religions are wrong, or a new convert sharing how he realized the other religions were wrong...all Christian religions and all mentioned specifically by name. Baptist, Nazarene, etc. I am so sick of people thinking their Christian church is so much better then the next one!! Charles Spurgeon the famous Baptist preacher said and I quote "I say of the Baptist name, let it perish, but let Christ's name stand forever. I look forward with pleasure to the day when there will not be a Baptist living.".... he knew where it was at...not in any denominational name but in Jesus Christ alone! May every church be accursed but Jesus lifted up forever and ever! Here's one from John Wesley as well, "Would to God that all party names, and unsriptural phrases and forms which have divided the Christian world, were forgot...I should rejoice..if the very name (Methodist) might never be mentioned more, but be buried in eternal oblivion." I may not agree with every stance every church takes, but the Lord rebuke me if I harbor an attitude of superiority, which can happen. If a church preaches and acts upon the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, they are my brother and my sister irregardless of our differences. The job is to have "unity in peace" as Paul wrote, not unity in sameness. The very work of the ministry spread to other localities because Barnabas and Paul had a disagreement. May the Gospel spread for Jesus' sake. | ||
| Sammi |
It's so encouraging to me how I can relate to so much of what I read here. Speaking of campmeeting, the last time I went I made the same comment, that I felt like a "fish out of water." I too said it was sooooooooooo dysfunctional! Seems like the more dysfunctional and spiritually unhealthy someone appears to be, the more "holy" they are considered! I'm sorry, when I finally decided to share on this forum, I didn't intend to be negative, and when I read the few things I've written they are, but I guess I'm "venting" a little. Thankfully, I am in a healthy gospel setting at my church, but it's still part of the system and the problems in the system are evident all around me, other churches, periodicals, many of the people, and on and on. Thanks for your comments Sherry, I always enjoy reading you! | ||
| Violet |
I have to admit that last week I found my Clear Word Bible I purchased several years ago. As I looked at it I pondered what to with it. I did not want it in my home but the word "Bible" put me in a quandery. Then it hit me this was a book of "added testimony" and twisted statements. Anything that is not the truth was not the Bible. I took a deep breath and threw it in the trash. No looking back it was not God's word it was a man's distortion. | ||
| Colleentinker |
Nate, I understand exactly what you experienced at campmeeting. I've decided that part of what we experience at Adventist meetings is a lack of the Holy Spirit. While some evangelical congregations (such as yours) do have the Holy Sprit present, most don't. When people are not born again, the focus is on themselves, and meaningful talk isn't really possible. Add on top of it the cultic compulsions of Adventism, and it's very uncomfortable once one has made Christ his central focus. Violet, I understand how liberating it felt for you to throw away the CWB. We got rid of our EGW books a couple of years ago--we actually burned them. What a strange feeling; I love books! I am thankful that Jesus promised that when we are his disciples we will know the truth, and the truth will set us free. What a great reality to cling to! Praising God for truth, Colleen | ||
| Nate |
Isn't It great to know what, or rather Who, the CENTER is! I loved those quotations frome Spurgeon and Wesley, Sharry2. That is the cry if my heart too. As long as there is an "Ism", there is separation in the body of Christ. My head elder brought a copy of the latest Quarterly for Sabbath School this quarter upcoming. It is on the pillars of Adventism. We looked it over. It has One week presentation on the Gospel, Three on the Sabbath, Several others on the Judgement and remnant, Etc. Only one week on the Gospel!!! We were both saddened. As long as there is an ism to uphold, there can be no room for the centrality of the Gospe!!! My wife and I are praying daily to find God's will for us. Are we to be in the system longer or are we to move out where we can follow our consciences more openly? We believe that the direction we are getting is more to the latter. Thanks everyone for your prayers. Colleen, We were digging through some old papers and we ran across the A Today article abuot Clay Peck's firing, and also Richard Frederick's response to the Review. It was strange to see what has happened in these few years. You and your husband are no longer SDA and neither are Richard and Clay. My wife and I are right on the verge of a huge decision that looks like the same is inevitable for us. Yet there is a sense of joy and freedom that comes along with the fear of the unknown. We kmnow that our Jesus is all sufficient. It is so great to see that you and the others mentioned are experiencing great freedom in Christ, and are glad that you were led to step out! Maryann, I can't find your message anymore where you gave your contact info. I wanted to respond to you of the forum. If you read this please include that info again. Love to you all. We value your prayers more than we can say! God Bless, In Christ, Nate | ||
| Doug222 |
Who needs to go to Camp Meeting? All you have to do is go to Church! Since God has began (and I know He is not finished) to remove the veil from my eyes, there is not a week that I don't hear something outrageous at church--usually from the pulpit. Last week, the Pastor preached one of the most legalist sermons I have ever heard on the Sabbath. At one point, he said it is okay to go to the lake or to go for a walk on the Sabbath, but you have to keep asking your self the question, "who is getting more pleasure out of this, me or God?" If the answer is "me," then you shouldn't be doing it. Afterall, that's what Isaiah 58 says. I could go on and on with these type statements, but that isn't productive. It just amazes me that I have spent as much time as I have (30+ years) believing, and even teaching, this stuff. I am an avid reader and I have been known to drive down the street with a book in my hand, reading it at stop lights (and sometimes while I am driving if the traffic isl ight). A few years back, I was doing this with the Great Controversy. Lately I've found myself doing it with the Bible. Certain passages are like water to my soul and I cannot get enoug of them (Hebrews 8-10, Galatians Romans, and 2 Corinthians 3 just to name a few. I receive a joy from reading the scriptures now that I never could get before. I believe that viewing the Bible through the lens of grace makes all the difference. A friend of mine who is questioning some of the teachings and politics of the church has been after me to give him proof that the Sabbath is no longer binding. I am somewhat reluctant to do it because right now, he is at a place where he is still questioning what is "required" of him and what isn't. I believe that unless he understands the New Covenant and what Jesus did for him on the cross, he will continue on the typical adventist quest for the "right" doctrine, but miss the liberating power of the Gospel. I thank God daily for "bringing me into this marvellous light." Doesn't that cliche take on new meaning when Jesus is the center? Praise the Lord! Sorry for the rambling. I'm just excited about what an awesome God we serve! In His Grace Doug | ||
| Therese |
Hi, Camp meeting starts tonight in my area. I have been contemplating going tomorrow because I would like to see some of the SDA people I like and have not seen for a long time. Your stories remind me of last year's camp meeting. The main message during the sabbath worship hour was "give more money and time to the organization." The main message of the afternoon session was "recruit more people to SDA." Guilt and subtlely linking these directives to ones salvation was the motivation to "give and recruit." This camp meeting only goes from Friday nite to Saturday nite. Worship and Saturday afternoon is when most people are there to get this indoctrination. You've given me second thoughts about going. I'm going to sleep on it. Therese | ||
| Allenette |
OH What a bummer that the formerly less disguised Campmeetings are being discovered for the commercial enterprises that they are. Boo Hoo...ALL enterprises ARE...including THIS ONE!! DUHHH! My mom (an SDA pastor's widow.copyright)works for the Tennessee one nearly every year. Who on here thinks it is a Labor of Love?????? It is a money-making enterprise as has been the entire NEW RELIGION since when, about 1845 or so??? So what else is new? Smell the coffee people. Its all about MONEY not God. | ||
| Nate |
Dittos Doug. The message of Grace is so liberating! Reflecting on what you said about whether or not to share the Truth about Sabbath in Christ with your friend, I have a thought. This relates to the whole SDA mindset. The reason Campmeeting and church are often so focused on what truly does not matter. Money, dos and don'ts, etc. I was in my quiet time this morning, and I was reflecting on Jesus words. You cannot put new wine into old wineskins. I have been trying to do this for years, but has not worked and it has been frustrating. The truth is it is NOT possible. New wine (the Gospel) bursts old wineskins! Interestingly, look up the references to wineskins and you will find that they are in the context of Jesus' Sabbath debate with the pharisees. It is useless to try to make the new wine fit into the old system. I knew this before, but this morning, the Lord brought it to me in a deeper and stronger way. As a minister in transition, I am seeing that it is fruitless to keep trying to pour new wine into a system that is not interested in becoming a new wineskin... a new overhauled system. I guess my experience at campmeeting, and the one you mentioned at church and the ones others have mentioned, point out that the SDA church, for the most part, is still not at all interested in moving away from the old system in spite of some outward surface cosmetics. Let's keep praying that the Lord will show us the next step for us. God Bless, In Christ, Nate | ||
| Therese |
Hey, Where Is Everyone? I went to camp meeting and it wasn't so bad. Actually the worship service was good. No guilt or fear tactics used in the sermon. No pleas for money or harangue on having the "truth". Much better than last year. I went to the potluck afterwards. Most people were friendly. The pastor and elders,however, shunned me. Actually they ignored me. They would glance my way, but not acknowledge me in any way. I haven't attended their church in 8 months. I'm sure they have heard I am going to non-denominational churches and I have said their church is not supportive. I was one of the first people there and picked a spot to sit. Not one adult sat with me or invited me to join their group. I ate with my son and some kids that joined him. Anyway it was still nice to see some old faces. Therese | ||
| Windmotion |
My pastor told a good story illustrating grace Sunday. I thought I would share it as best as I could remember it. I don't know if it's true or not. Anyway it seems this family of immigrants had purchased passage on a ship to make the long trip to America and start a new life. Cost for the tickets had taken just about all of their life savings, but they were looking forward to the journey. To save money, they bought ahead of time all the food they would need for the couple weeks they were on the ship. They bought practical things like beans and oatmeal and bread. After about a week and a half of this, the youngest boy was getting really tired of the food and the father kindly gave his son a little money to go buy something from the eating area downstairs. The boy was gone for a long time, and when he came up his eyes were shining. "Dad," he said. "All that food down there, it's all free to everyone on the ship." | ||
| Colleentinker |
Nate, I remember a very few years ago when the new wine in old wineskins illustration hit home with me in a new and deeper way. The gospel really does not work in a structure that exists to perpetuate itself. The gospel is alive, and it can't be contained or managed. I remember the feeling of freedom and exhilaration we experienced as we began to realize we would leave that structure behind. We were sad and joyful at the same time--or alternatingly, sometimes. The beauty is that God is so completely faithful. He doesn't leave us through the turmoil, and he really is our reward. I'm praying for you and your wife. Colleen | ||
| Nate |
Thanks so much! It is good to know that others have been down this road and that there is light at the end of the tunnel! | ||
| Dennis |
Welcome, Windmotion! It is great to have you onboard. I know your posts will be a blessing to all seekers of truth. You are a great writer and a diligent Bible student. Nate and family, As a former Adventist minister, my heart goes out to you. My wife and I have felt so incredibly blest in having the "veil" removed from our hearts; that enabled us to refocus our Christian journey. You are in our prayers. In Christ, Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Lynnw |
My husband & I are teaching a class on Adventism in our church. We have one of the newer "Clear Word" books. We'd like to get a copy of an older "Clear Word Bible." The one they made before they took the word Bible off. Does anyone have one they could send me? I'll pay the shipping. |
