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Max
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2001 - 4:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Calling all historians:

How did the Whites, coming out of extreme
poverty, amass so great a fortune that they
could afford to live in a mansion (for that day
and age) on an estate in the beautiful St.
Helena area? One of the most beautiful -- not
to mention priciest -- rural areas in the country
at her time? And even more pricy now?
Hmmm?

And did not Sister Ellen say, when their luck
was down, before "the conflict of the ages"
book series was proposed, say, "There's
wealth in these pens yet"? Hmmm?

And where did the capital come from with
which to hire a staff of researchers, writers,
editors, secretaries? Hmmm?

And consider the army of wild-eyed
colporteurs selling this plagiarist's books door
to door across the country. Did they not
amass a fortune for Sister Ellen? Hmmm?

What happened to them? That rag-tag army of
whom Sister Ellen proclaimed, "There IS no
higher calling? Hmmm?

Ron Graybill? Where are you? Now that we
need you?

(No answer.)

No answer?

(No answer.)

Well in that case I'll just have to quote Lewis
Carroll's Walrus:

I weep for you," the Walrus said;
"I deeply sympathize."
With sobs and tears he sorted out
Those of the largest size,
Holding is pocket-handkerchief
Before his streaming eyes."

Oh, what the help! As long as I'm quoting the
Walrus I might as well quote the Carpenter
too.

"O Oysters," said the Carpenter,
"You've had a pleasant run!
Shall we be trotting home again?"
But answer came there none --
And this was scarcely odd, because
They'd eaten every one.

Let him who hath eyes to see, see. And him
who hath ears to hear, hear.

MC
Denisegilmore
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 2:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well Max,

Having read the "testimonies" of egw, I know it wasn't from selling their much needed cow. As if I recall, the cow died first.

Or did it? Now I can't remember if their cow died or if they did indeed sell this precious cow.

Thereby investing the monies into the stock market and thus thriving on the dow going up, (probably shown to her by her angel of course).

Wherein selling these stocks to invest further yet into other areas of trade (of course instructed possibly from a vision or her personal angel).

Finally ending with a load of stocks and bonds in such an abundance that anyone could hear sister ellen screaming "Sell! Sell!."

Thus they were fruitful enough to wire together their empire.

What do you think?
Max
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 2:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think, What shall it prophet a person if she
shall gain the whole world and lose her own
soul. That's in the Bible somewhere. MC
Denisegilmore
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 3:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I love ya Max! :)

Yep, it's in there somewhere alright.

You always bring a smile to this face on the other end of your monitor.

Blessings on your head always,
DtB, love to you in our Lord Jesus
Andrew_adams
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 11:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They say that she published some 200 books, and these books are not cheep. Most Adventist homes have at least one of her books, how many do you have? You don't hafta answer that. I have about ten or so but I didn't but them, I saved them from being tossed out.

AA
Max
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 11:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

200 books, eh? Ever searched for plagiarized
EGW testimony on
http://www.egwestate.andrews.edu/?

You'll find many if not most statements in up to
40 different books. Lotsa overlap there.
Andrew_adams
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 11:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Max, you are so right, check Early Writings page 126 and 149.

But was it 200 books? or am I way off on this.

AA
Denisegilmore
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2001 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Andrew,

One time I watched a life history on Ellen White and in it, of course, they showed just how many books this woman had written.

The way they went about doing this was showing a man of about 6 foot tall and next to him, Ellen's books that stood just a bit taller than this 6ft man.

Does that help? :)

God Bless,
DtB
Andrew_adams
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 12:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes it does, the sad part of this is that a lot of homes have these books and people use them as Gospel. Next the big problem for the SDA leaders was that they found that EGW said some bad things but the books are in the homes, so how do you change them?

AA
Denisegilmore
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 12:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Andrew,

The answer is called "progressive revelation." Or so they say. I call it a falsehood.

What say ye?

God Bless,
DtB, your sister in Christ, who just happens to have many of her originals...:)

P.S. Did you know that the Great Controversy is also under the title "America in Prophecy?"
I found this out while reading my 10 cent book, purchased at a garage sale, and finding it to contain the same story and teachings.

Eventually I read the inside cover and found a stamp of E.G. White.

At the time, I didn't connect it as being Ellen Gould White, believe or not.
Andrew_adams
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 1:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is so funny what this women and the leaders of this organization did and said.

In the Adventist Review, Feb. 2001, Bill Knott's Editorial "The Unbroken Rule" he talks about William Miller, has anyone read-up on this Miller guy? I did and he, in my eyes is a nut.

What do you think?

AA
Denisegilmore
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 1:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Andrew,

Yes, I have read about William Miller and his time table or date setting as to when Jesus would come. However, later Miller denounced his own ideas.

But Miller never accepted the heavenly sanctuary reinterpretation of Daniel 8:14. This was promoted by a small band of Millerites, many who were the founders of the SDA Church.

Did you know that neither James or Ellen White ever came up with a doctrine of their own?

They got the sabbath from a man named Joseph Bates. They got the sanctuary in heaven from O.L.R. Crosier. Then the three angels message they got from yet another source along with the two horned beast and also they got the theory that this two horned beast was the United States from that same source.

Fact of the matter is, There is no doctrine that Ellen nor James came up with on their own.

Andrew, a good book to read, from where I got this information is "Cultic Doctrine of the Seventh Day Adventists" by Dale Ratzlaff.

This book will give you the entire history and how all these doctrines came about and why others were formed from them as well.

It is a great book and I highly recommend this book.

God Bless you Andrew as you continue on your journey in the Grace and Peace from our Lord Jesus Christ.

DtB, your sister in Christ
Violet
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 2:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This book is great, I am in the midle of it right now. The problem is if I start reading at 9:30 I don't get to be until after midnight. I cannot wait to turn the page and read more. Who needs the National Enquirer?
Denisegilmore
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 3:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Violet,

It kept me captured too. A really wonderful and enlightening book. Sure helped me.

Now I'm about finished reading "Sabbath in Crisis" by Dale Ratzlaff. It's another good book by him!

I'll bet you'll find yourself referring to it often. I know that's what I do.

God Bless you in your studying,
DtB, your sister in Christ Jesus
Andrew_adams
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 11:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All of you are so right, that is the book that got me started on this road to truth, thanks Dale, and thank all of you for your encouragenent. Next I want to read that book, "Sabbath in Crisis" by Dale Ratzlaff.

God Bless all of you,
AA
Denisegilmore
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 12:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh Andrew,

You will enjoy that book too because I'm currently reading it and almost finished. Wow, what education I have recieved!

And no more questions on my part regarding the Sabbath. This is a blessing from the Lord, no denying this.

These are can't miss books no doubt.

Blessings always,
DtB
Violet
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 5:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The saga continues with my brother in law. He e-mailed me today wanting to send me some tapes on the subjects I listed as problem areas of the orginization. I am assuming they are on the Sabbath and the Invest. Jmt. and the law/grace issue. I told him I would be glad to review them, but I will then critique them and return my written assessment to him. This should be interesting. The way I look at it I will know what they are teaching even more so I will be ready for it. He is into Doug (?) Bathclor real heavy so I am sure they are from him.
Chyna
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 6:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

keep the faith, Violet! although you might find out like many other FAFers, or ppl like me that have discussed doctrine with SDAs that until God opens their heart, they are going to be stone blind. or maybe all your job is to plant seeds. I guess just remember how hard it was to reach you before you came out.

I have a question for FAFers ... when you were in Adventism, and if someone had sent you any of Ratzlaf's materials, would you read them? would it make any difference? or would you ignore them and resent the person that gave them to you? if you hadn't sought it would you be open enough to respond to the material presented?

Chyna
Denisegilmore
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 8:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Chyna,

Well, in answer to your questions. I suppose that my search has always been within me. So I read, while attending the SDA Church, many books and literature from other denominations.

Also what even more impressed me to research things was the fact that in Sabbath School, they were teaching this Investigative Judgement and this didn't match any Bible I had read. This inspired me all the more to seek for Truth.

To top that off, while attending both the Nazarene Church and the SDA Church, I was studying every week with the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses.

Then God blessed me with this computer! WOW! What a world that opened up to me. The education has been wonderful and to this very minute, I thank God for helping me study in any area I have a question.

The internet has tons of information that could confuse one. But the one thing I always knew to do, was compare what was being taught to the Scriptures.

I'm open to read as many different teachings out there as I can. Of course always comparing them with God's Word.

So my answer to you Chyna, would be, yes, I was not only open to new things but searching relentlessly and still am researching.

But the blessings that have come from this have been manifold. I can pretty much interact with all peoples, with just a little bit of knowledge of where they come from. Then in my interaction, I learn even more and more.

This also gives me ample opportunities to share the Gospel and the other teachings of the Bible.

I have a long way to go to ever be a good teacher but I'm not giving up. Something in me keeps me doing what I do.

Hope that helps.

God Bless you Chyna,
DtB
Valm
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 9:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Violet, Denise and Chyna,

When reading your post Violet, I was ready to say, "Hey give your brother in law Ratzlaff's books." Then my next impulse was how they would just collect dust.

I read on to your post Chyna suggesting the same thing. And then on to your post Denise telling of your journey.

What is unique about Denise is she has and always will have a deep desire to seek truth. No stone is left unturned for this girl!!

I find that is it human nature in general and moreso in SDA's to read only what affirms what they believe already or wish to believe.

While my brother recently gave me a SDA book to read with great enthusiam for me to read it, when I asked him if he would read Ratzlaff's book he told me probably not.

SDAs in general view their role to teach and prophecy to the rest of us. They usually do not accept the role to learn from others.

I would tell you Chyna, from my point of view, most SDAs would not be open and would be resentful of the suggestion to read material counter to their way of thinking.

However, it is worth a try. Violet, ask your brother in law if he would read the book. See what happens. Miracles happen everyday. But they don't happen if we don't ask (again in my opinion)

Violet, you are a brave woman to discuss these issues with your family. Chyna, I admire your zeal to understand the human dynamics of SDA people. Denise your quest for truth is refreshing to observe.

Have a good night girlfriends. I have to tuck myself in soon. I work the three day weekend.

Valerie

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