| Author | Message | ||
| Dennis |
Ever wonder why Adventism is so appealing in third world countries? Recently, as the Adventist media has informed us, several thousand new Christians (with Baptist-related connections)in a poverty-stricken area of India have accepted Adventism. Furthermore, wealthy American, SDA businessmen provided funding to build churches for these new converts. On the other hand, the Baptist missionaries, that originally brought Christianity to these people, were not able to provide funding for new churches. In addition to the obvious social prestige of suddenly having brand-new churches, these new Christians (in a country where half the population is vegetarian) were largely attracted to the SDA vegetarian/legalistic beliefs that their Hindu/reincarnation background supported. Truly Adventism provided a disserve to God in returning these former Hindus to yet another form of legalism. The Apostle Paul compared the Galatians going under the Law as slavery (see Gal 4:9). Remember when the Adventist Church was the largest Protestant group in Rwanda? Sadly, despite their best efforts in Law-keeping, it did not change the Rwandans hearts from long-held tribal strife, envyings, and hatreds. Without a Spirit-led life, the horrors of evil encircle the heart. This is a classic example of an Adventist foreign mission fiasco, when Adventists cruelly turned upon each other with their guns and knives; thus, creating yet another major holocaust in the annals of human history. Yes, even a former Rwandan Conference President is now awaiting his fate before a United Nations War Crimes Tribunal in Kenya. Truly, the Adventist Rwandans were taught another gospel. Being Adventism is in an observable state of decline in the industralized world (despite their high-tech evangelism), the third world countries are seemingly reaching out for anything to advance their desperate plight. However, the Internet has become a powerful new challenge for hierarchical organizations and governments. With cyber cafes increasingly dotting the third world landscape, more people than ever have the opportunity of becoming Adventist-free. Some suggestions/questions we may want to discuss together under this thread are: (1) Is there really organizational strength in numbers? (2) How Biblically-informed are the new Adventist converts in the third world countries? (3) How limited is their knowledge in denominational history? (4) How spiritually and financially abused are these new converts? ETC Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Colleentinker |
Excellent points, Dennis! A man I know whose father is a native Adventist pastor in a South American country said that his father says, becoming Adventist in a third world country is a way to become middle class. Adentists make education, employment, financial success, etc. possible. I've also heard from non-Adventist Christian pastors that in many areas, the Adventists come into an area and make converts from among those already brought in by other Christian missions. The Adventists promise more socio-economic advantages. I guess this is called "sheep-stealing". Great questions, also, Dennis. Colleen | ||
| Graceambassador |
Dear Dennis: As one who was born in what is called 3rd world, Brazil, in a big city, Sao Paulo, whose economy alone is stronger than the Nordic countries put together, plus the economy of Central America, let me take on question number 2: (2) How Biblically-informed are the new Adventist converts in the third world countries? I visited Brazil late 2000. I went to three Churches in three different states. I found small SDA churches and had the opportunity of talking to some people within those churches who are, to say the least, "sympathetic" to SDA. And here is why: 1 - SDAs do a lot of "charitable" work and this attract the poor and ignorant. Dependence is a powerful weapon. I doubt their motives but the SDA is very effective in doing so. This, in its own peculiar way, leads to the second part of your question as to their "level of information". Charitable work has a tendency to make people shut their eyes to Biblical teaching. Have you not seen how in America decadent TV ministers periodically shift their emphasis to "poor countries" "poor kids" and "charity"? I spoke with someone who is sympathetic to the SDA and he knew nothing about the SDA other than the "charitable" aspect. I warned him about the legalism, the Sabbath and Ellen. He said he would find out for himself. I attempted to follow up only to discover later that the SDA is using the same "tactic" or "strategy" of other cults such as Mormonism and Jehovah Witness: THEY HAVE AN INITIATION PERIOD IN WHICH THEY HIDE THEIR MOST SACRED BELIEFS FROM THE INITIATING The result is that when the "initiating" finally finds out what most of you in this forum found out, they are so dependent upon the "works of charity" of the SDA, they are so "obligated socially" to the "good" the SDA brought upon their lives that it is very difficult to leave. In summary: Pseudo charity leads to dependence Dependence leads to blind acceptance of any teaching. The teaching is administered in doses commensurate with the said dependency, and such dosage does bring about dependency. Obviously, this very simplistic but efficacious process prevents anyone from being INFORMED early in their walk with the SDA of what the SDA really teach. Thus the answer to part two of your question is: NO, THEY ARE NOT BIBLICALLY INFORMED, AND NOT INFORMED ABOUT THE SDA AND THEIR HISTORY. A quick testimony: When I was a young boy, my father, a strong Baptist, used to hear every morning THE VOICE OF PROPHECY, the SDA spooky radio broadcast translated into Portuguese, the language of Brazil. Then my father would go to the Bible and dispute the SDA claims with every SDA he could find in the neighborhood. My father was not afraid that I as a young boy would be influenced by the said broadcast because: IN OUR CHURCH OUR SUNDAY SCHOOL WAS REALLY A BIBLE SCHOOL. WE, AS CHILDREN THEN, WOULD NOT GO TO SUNDAY SCHOOL TO PLAY DOUGH AND ALLOW OUR PARENTS TO HAVE THEIR RELIGIOUS PARTY. WE WENT TO LEARN THE BIBLE AND BIBLE FOUNDATIONAL TRUTHS. PASTORS WERE, FORTUNATELY, MEDDLING, AND DID PLAY A PART IN THE FAMILY LIVES OF THEIR CONGREGATIONS. THEY WERE REALLY POWERFUL MAN IN BIBLE KNOWLEDGE AND WERE "APT TO TEACH" AS PAUL COMMANDED THEM TO BE. Therefore, with the above and much more, WE HAD A STRONG BIBLICAL BACKGROUND WITH NO FEAR OF DECEPTION. I believe that the above is a far cry from "churches" today. "Churches" today are actually the most fertile ground for the worms and magots of cults to proliferate! Pastors are unprepared...vague, and uninvolved Sunday schools are nothing but "nintendo parties" Congregations have gotten so big that all you know about your fellow member is the "back of their neck. In order to recognize someone, you have to tell them to turn around and show the back of their necks... This prevents the "ministers" to have a clear idea of what is going on with their flock. The amount received in contributions have become the unit of measure of success in "churches" today, and not the level of Bible knowledge and Spiritual illumination... etc. etc. etc. I apoligize if I overstreched in my answer, but the proliferation of cults in the 3rd world hits the very core of my being! Grace Ambassador | ||
| Graceambassador |
Dennis and all One more quick and pertinent point: Some may wonder why I write "charity" in quotation marks. Well, to pick "charity" over sound Bible teaching and foundational truths, as the SDA do in South America, is "charity" with the wrong motivation... ...If one studies the 4 Gospels you will find that the message of "charity" and "poor" with the wrong motivation, you will find that it was the RELIGION OF JUDAS THE TRAITOR! This is why I despise the type of "charity" promoted by the SDA in the 3rd world. Thanks Grace Ambassador | ||
| Dennis |
Excellent insights, Colleen and Grace Ambassador. While still an Adventist several years ago, a college student from Africa, told me that in his native country, people sometimes joined the Adventist Church for the simplistic reason of getting to ride a church bus to a campmeeting once a year. This annual trek across the bush terrain of Botswana, provided them with an elevated social status among their peers (i.e., being part of an organization that provides benefits/excursions for its members). They felt highly privileged just to be bus passengers. Apparently, for many, the 27 doctrinal beliefs are merely secondary in importance. GA, your first-hand report from Brazil, is most helpful for us to better understand the multi-faceted strategies that Adventism employs. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Colleentinker |
Grace Ambassador, somehow I missed reading your posts above last week. I'm so glad you mentioned the "charitable" works--I hadn't thought of that in the way you described it. I do know that about three years ago (maybe four) there was a large expose¥in the L. A. Times regarding Adventist Disaster Relief Agency (ADRA). Most Adventists know that ADRA is mentioned frequently from pulpits, and its accomplishments are regularly reported in the Adventist Review. As Adventists we were taught that it was strictly a denominational organization, operated and funded by the church. In reality, it also receives federal funds, and it's often used by the government to distribute government aid. The articles in the times reported on several major instances of financial and/or materials mismanagement. ADRA, of course, issued a rebuttal, but the rebuttal didn't answer all the questions the Times articles raised. The use of "charity" to "further the work" seems really similar to the "medical work" being "the right arm of the message." Jesus and the apostles were all quite clear: Jesus and his death and resurrection are to be The Thing we preach, not lifestyle or health or socio-economic improvement. Of course we're to help the poor, sick, and destitute, but the helps are not to be the focus. When the apostels travelled on their journeys and preached, they did heal the sick. But that was always secondary to preaching salvation--release for the spiritual captives, sight for the spiritually blind. Neither Jesus nor the apostles provided means for people to rise into higher soci-economic brackets. In fact, following Jesus often meant losing the comforts people had and losing their social standing. Material comfort or advantages will not set people free. Only Jesus does that! Do any of you know that praise song by Dennis Jernigan, "Nobody Fills My Heart Like Jesus"? That is a wonderful song and is on a couple of his CD's. That song says it all for me. "I want to tell you from the start, Thank you for breaking through my heart; Thank you for tearing evey chain apart! When I was lost you found a way, You turned the darkest night to day; You are my joy, and I just want to say, Nobody fills my heart like Jesus! Nobody fills it like You do; Nobody fills my heart like Jesus, Nobody, Lord, but You-- Nobody but You." When people find Jesus, they no longer have to struggle to develop programs to "sell" the gospel. God provides the venues, the people, the inspiration--and it's not about programs. The Holy Spirit does his work through people who trust him, and there's no way to quantify or write down the formula for what God does. What He does is tangible and visible, but it's not something people can replicate. Only God can replicate his own acts! I do praise God for being sovereign and for removing from our shoulders the onerous burden of having to win souls! We merely need to trust him with ourselves and those we love, and He will accomplish his purposes through us! Colleen | ||
| Graceambassador |
Dear Colleen: You are so right in your post above! I like the way you used the word "charity" in quotation marks because this is pretty much my own style to refer to something that is called that which it is not. I begged you and all readers before the permission to mention sermons that I preached, so, without sounding preachy and plugging my sermons, please allow me to mention this one: It is about Saul "disguising himself" to check with the medium. Saul was a king. Not God's choice king, but one that God accepted in a temporary basis. As king, Saul had ROYAL ROBES. By his action, his walk and SPECIFICALLY BY HIS ROYAL ROBES he could be recognized anywhere as a king. In order to "disguise himself" not to be recognized, he had to "strip himself" of his royalty by undressing from his royal robes. Religious organizations have done the same. We want to achieve a determined goal that it is not even right in the eyes of God. Goals that God disaproves just as much as He disaproved Saul's visit to the medium. In order to achieve these goals, religious organizations strip themselves of all the appearance of their "kingship" in Jesus and strip the "royal priesthood and the robes of righteousness" with which God has dressed us. These disguises can be the programs they devise. Churches hire more "marketeers" today that preachers. Preachers have to mingle spiritual matters with psychology. They have to advise people with serious spiritual problems using worldly methods, not effective in spiritual matters, only because this is the modern thing to do... It seems as if the Bible has no more answers for the 21st century men. (You see, I am old fashion) "Charity" becomes one of the most frequently used disguise. We put on "charity" and we go out thinking that we can fool the world. Unfortunately as the medium recognized Saul, THE WORLD WILL RECOGNIZE THESE PHONY PROGRAMS. This can only bring shame and scorn to the name of the Gospel. If we only knew who we really are in Christ; what He really made us to be in Him; the kind of royalty with which He has crowned us; then we would know that we have ALL WE NEED to win the world. There would be no need for programs, for "marketing strategies", and there would be no need to compromising the scriptures. (Of course I am not against psychology, but I am against using amputation where a band aid suffices, and against a band aid where the case is of amputation, get it?) What I see in South America, not as a tool of the SDA alone, but we are dealing with the SDA here, is "charity" slowly replacing the pure message of Salvation. If the world needed this kind of "charity" then God would have sent a philanthropist. Worse yet they are doing with the same motivation that Judas had when he became angry with the woman who broke the alabaster vase at the feet of Jesus: IT WAS BETTER TO SERVE THE DISTANT POOR THAT TO WORSHIP JESUS AT THE MOMENT OF THE OPPORTUNITY. Judas actually wanted the worshipping of Jesus to be secondary to helping the poor because of dishonesty... The religion of Judas is rampant today... The world is recognizing these religions behind their disguises and exposing their falsehood! What a tragedy! What are we to be? Kings and priests dressed in righteousness or use disguises only to become people stripped from the dignity Christ affords just for a fleeting sense of worldly success? ************************************************* I want to finish this post by pasting your "praise God" you applied to end your post: I do praise God for being sovereign and for removing from our shoulders the onerous burden of having to win souls! We merely need to trust him with ourselves and those we love, and He will accomplish his purposes through us! AMEN Grace Ambassador | ||
| Dennis (Dennis) |
FORMER RWANDAN SDA CONFERENCE PRESIDENT FOUND GUILTY OF MASS GENOCIDE Elizphan Ntakirutimana and his physician son, Gerard, were found guilty of aiding and abetting genocide in Rwanda in 1994. This War Crimes Trial was held under the auspices of the United Nations Tribunal Chamber. Trial Chamber One is composed of Judges Navanethem Pilay of South Africa (presiding), Erik Mose of Norway, and Asoka de Zoysa Gunawardana of Sri Lanka. HERE IS THE OFFICIAL SDA RESPONSE: "We acknowledge with sadness that some of our church members turned against their fellow members and their neighbors. We are saddened that the accused did not act in harmony with the principles of their church. We offer an apology." SOURCE: (http://www.adventist.org news/data/2003/01/1045672278/index.html.en) Being that I mentioned these awful crimes in my July 24, 2001 post, I thought this update on a SDA foreign mission fiasco is appropriate. An estimated ten thousand Adventists lost their lives in the inter-tribal conflict of 1994. Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Clay (Clay) |
My wife and I spent 3 years in Ethiopia teaching at a school that offered cheaper tuition to SDA students than other non-SDA's. We know there were large numbers of students that were baptised so they could get the cheaper tuition and when they graduated, they never darkened the door of an SDA church again. Someone spoke earlier of the SDA work in India and mentioned the building of new churches as a way of attracting other Christians to Adventism and I know it happens. I know an SDA professional who makes regular trips to India with ADRA to preach and build churches with his team. When they come into a village they are often carried in a chair as royalty and the messages they preach is just enough to get people to join the church. I am sure it makes them feel good to be treated as royalty and since they only have to stay a few weeks, they don't have to live in the primitive conditions as the locals do. My personal feeling is that many of these 2-3 wk mission trips to 3rd world contries are take as glorified vacations for many Westeners. In most cases the "Pure Gospel" is rarely preached and if so it was lost in the many other doctrines that called for lifestyle changes. I believe missionaries need to live within the culture of the country and adapt the preaching to the culture and the focus should be on the cross of Christ and the wonderful love of God. When we preach only the "Gospel", the Holy Spirit will make the changes in peoples lives that are necessary. It is only the "Gospel" that can break down the walls of tribalism. | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
Having read several articles about these events in Rwanda over the past few years, the nature of these atrocities compel me to ask a few questions about this official response from the General Conference of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. I find it interesting that after looking at various official and pro-Adventist web sites, that I cannot find a mention that this man was a conference leader. All of the references I have seen list him as merely ìan Adventist pastor.î Dennis, can you (or anyone here) help me confirm the fact that he was a conference President? Not that I doubt you, but I think it is seriously immoral to downplay this event by issuing this very ìlukewarmî acknowledgment you cited, as well as the omission of his high position in the church. I just want to be sure I can refer to some official source about his former position. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Just last night Richard showed me an article on AllAfrica.com (I think it was--at any rate, it's the website of an African news agency) in which it stated the pastor in question was not only a pastor but the top conference official of his geographical area for the SDA Church. Richard said the same info was carried yesterday by CNN, A.P, and New York Times to name a few. The African article further stated that the man's son, also sentenced, was also guilty of killing a man from the (was it Tutsi?) tribe inside a building. The son is a doctor. I can only imagine was a PR embarrassment this must be for the Adventist church. I remember when they declared that David Koresh and his cult had absoltuely no ties to Adventism. (Never mind the fact that he had been a member of the Adventist church until just a few years before. A friend of mine was the pastor of Koresh's SDA church when he was in Hawaii, and they had had to disfellowship him, I believe.) Have you ever noticed how Adventism usually does its best to support and be in favor with the prevailing government? The SDAs in Nazi Germany, for example... Colleen | ||
| Dennis (Dennis) |
Jerry, As a small sample, THE SEATTLE TIMES, has an article written by Laurie Goering of the CHICAGO TRIBUNE titled "Rwandans turning to Islam as faith shaken by genocide." Islam was never popular in Rwanda until after the genocide in 1994, "which spurred a rush of conversions." The article goes on to say that "Elizaphan Ntakirutimana, the head of Rwanda's Seventh-day Adventist Church, is on trial, charged with luring Tutsi parishioners to his church in western Kibeye province then turning them over to Hutu militas who slaughtered 2,000 to 6,000 in a single day." Ntakirutimana reportedly further stated to the Tutsis that, "You must be eliminated. God doesn't want you anymore." Sadly, Adventism has greatly contributed to this current rush to Islam in Rwanda. I understand that SDAs were the largest non-Catholic religious group in Rwanda in 1994. The London Times has a full-color photo of this SDA minister and his physician son in their news release yesterday. The picture shows them seated side by side in court awaiting sentencing. (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,1-1-583687,00.html) I trust this clears up any doubt that Elizaphan Ntakirutimana, 78, is a former Rwandan Conference President. His son, Gerard, age 45, was a physician at an SDA medical facility in Rwanda. Gerard got 20 years in prison and Elizaphan got 10 years--with credit given for time spent in police custody. This is the first time in history that a cleryman was convicted of genocide in the UN War Crimes Tribunal. The Judges had a unaminous decision in this case. Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Doug222 (Doug222) |
Colleen, I visited that church in Hawaii, and had the chance to talk to one of the members who was there while Koresh was. I can't say for certain if he had been disfellowshipped, but I do recall the individual saying how Koresh came in as a "normal" member, but that his views gradually became more and more extreme. He said that he took many of the pillars of the church with him when he left. I also recall the church's attempt to distance itself from him--even to the point of disception. It seems to me, that it would have been more honest to be more upfront about the full extent of his involvement in the church, rather than to simply say, "he had no ties." Just more Adventist doublespeak. Nothing is as it appears--even the Bible. Doug | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
This is so typical of the U.S.A.! Saving money at the expense of human lives. And the French goverment aided in this massacre! Belgium back out after 10 of its soldiers were killed. I'm so angry about this entire thing and the attitude of the U.N. at the time it was most needed by these people! Typical "diplomatic ways" of just 'talking instead of acting' as they should have! God, please help the survivors of those people who cried out and THEIR CRIES WENT UNHEARD. I'm livid over bureaucratic bull! And the United States of America is full of it and so are most of our churches. Those poor people. "Silent Screams." I'll stop typing but you are all very lucky that you are not hearing me in person because my rage would go on for hours on end over these kinds of atrocities and the U.S. of A is apathetic until AFTER the fact. Ah h###, what's the use, our government won't change. And I doubt many of our churches will either. "Diplomacy and Political Correctness" is our philosophy in these days....I HATE THIS PHILOSOPHY. It's killing people all over the world, including in the United States of America! See link and if you can sit back and not get angry, you are lying or not human: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/308542.stm Denise Gilmore who HATES injustice and always will. And I hate apathy just as much! | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Speaking of "injustice," (and Apathy) I'm currently in need of an attorney, pro bono, that will help me aid an elderly woman who is (I believe, as do others) being taken for a ride by the Social Services department of where I live. By myself, I cannot go about proving this, let alone taking measures to correct this atrocity. Although, I've been trying but need an expert to access records. I do not have the credentials that it takes. I'm simply her advocate, although my voice seems to be silenced or out and out ignored. IF we are all wrong, then our minds will be set at ease and all suspicions done away with. And I will personally apologize to Social Services for these suspicions. This is keeping me awake continually and is also putting excessive pressure on me, as her advocate. Which in turn is causing my own disabilities to progress to a stage that nobody will be able to help her if I should die. Because nobody else CARES ENOUGH to get involved. I'm also in charge of some of her care (for free of course) but am expected to go beyond my own physical abilities and my own physical disabilities are thus being trampled upon. So, I need an attorney for me and I need an advocate myself as there is no one to speak up for me. So hear my cry. No intentions of sueing whatsoever. Simply to see that JUSTICE PREVAILS HERE, is sufficient. So if you are an attorney out for monies, don't bother. I will not sue as it goes against my faith. I am having no success at all in acquiring an attorney who cares. (I have no monies to pay). She is my friend and lives in my apartment building. I cannot do this alone. So hear HER cry. Denise Gilmore email address: mygodismystrength@hotmail.com I'm in California, and need practical help, NOT TALK. Thanks, if anyone's listening out there. I will not discuss this any further "on the forum," but in email and phone and then hopefully (God willing), in person. Denise Gilmore P.S. when you email me, please let me know what it is about in the subject line, otherwise all emails are tossed if from an unknown sender or unknown reason. If you are NOT an Attorney, please do NOT contact me out of curiosity regarding this matter. | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
To all, Just something I picked up off the web after looking for something in connection with what the SDA might be saying about Elizaphan Ntakirutimana I quess I would have to say that if I had a belonged to a church that one of the leaders of such was at any way invloved in somthing like this and it was hush hush I would be alarmed. I belong to a church that some years back we were called to a special meeting and found out our minister had been involved in a sexual harrasment. He was dismissed form our church and went into counseling and is now a minister again in our conferences church. Nothing was covered up and we as a church body decided what to do about it. Carol Chronicles and reports on International Criminal Justice Home Trials Institutions Contacts Law -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- .. The Opening of the Ntakirutimana Trial before the ICTR A good preacher, yes. A good pastor, not so sure Elizaphan Ntakirutimana, pastor of the Seventh Day Adventist Church, whose trial will begin this week before the Tribunal for Rwanda, has not been forgotten by his flock in Mugonero, in the Southwest of Rwanda. Members of his former congregation agree on his oratory talents, less so on his Christian values. "I had to leave Rwanda in 1962 because of pastor Ntakirutimana", explains a pastor of the same Church, who, after 32 years in exile, was repatriated from the Democratic Republic of the Congo when the RPF came to power in 1994. He claims to have been a classmate of Ntakirutimana and thus considered him to be a friend. "But when my house was burnt and my property went up in smoke during the events of 1962, he pretended not to know me. Even worse, he treated me like a dirty dog", complains the former school friend. These events resulted from attacks led in the 60's by Tutsi exiles hounded out of power in 1959. The attacks were always followed by reprisals against the Tutsis inside the country, those still living in Rwanda. This forced new waves of refugees to flee to neighboring countries. An Adventist neighbor gives another facet of Ntakirutimana's personality. "He preached really well and knew how to galvanize crowds, but he was not nice at all", he affirms. And as if to bolster his claims, he adds: "he never gave anybody a ride in his car, not even women about to give birth, although he was one of the rare car owners in this out of the way spot called Mugonero". The Pastor's Sermons - What was he Preaching? His sermons followed the teachings of the Adventist church, a puritan church born in the United States in 1844 and brought to Rwanda in the 30's. The Seventh Day Adventist Church is a Christian church claiming that salvation depends on temperance and respect of the Sabbath. A good Adventist neither drinks nor smokes. Some push their zeal to abstaining from meat, coffee or tea. Elizaphan Ntakirutimana held a high position within this Church. He was "President of the Association". His powers covered the provinces of Kibuye and Cyangugu. In catholic terms, he was more or less equal to a bishop. Because he was influential, Tutsi pastors under his orders believed they would find refuge with him during the slaughters from April to June 1994. He gathered them all in one Church "to make it easier to protect them", they now claim. Every one of them was killed. "Pastor Aminadab Kabenga wanted to escape to Zaire over Lake Kivu, but Ntakirutimana dissuaded him, and he ended up being killed by a grenade in the church", asserts the wife of another pastor. She adds reproachfully, "powerless people were able to hide Tutsis, or at least they tried to, but powerful as he was, he can not claim to have saved anyone, not even among his colleagues! He did nothing to hide or evacuate anyone at all, not even his treasurer Kajongi!" Examples of courage did exist in Mugonero. Not concerning Elizaphan Ntakirutimana, but a rather woman named Magdaleine, a Hutu married to a Tutsi, who took the risk of mingling with the crowd of Tutsis, in the hope of deterring the assailants who knew her from attacking the church. She is now dead, but her memory will live on in History. Ladislas Niyongira Mugonero, 15 September 2001 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- © Copyright Judicial Diplomacy 2001 - All rights reserved- e-mail : redaction@diplomatiejudiciaire.com ght be saying about Elizaphan Ntakirutimana | ||
| Janice (Janice) |
Denise, I certainly can relate to your anger and frustrations at all this mess that is going on around us, especially here in America. Our preacher has really been doing a serious study on Iran and Iraq, and the Middle East in general and all I can say is that "it will not get better" and hope that I don't depress you any further with what I am saying. 2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. 2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. These two verses speak volumes to me and have been my life-preserver of sorts when I am up against the devil and his army. If we truly believe that the Bible is the innerrant and infallible word of God, then we must study EVERYTHING and see how it ALL relates to us, and the sad truth is that we are not promised tomorrow and as sure as God's word is, wars and rumors of wars will continue, the ugliness of the world will continue in its downward spiral as foretold in the first chapter of Romans and as we are each telling our stories here in the forum, it clearly shows one more prophecy fulfilled and that is the verse that warns us that "our enemies" with be those in our own homes. I hear it in almost every post that I read, our enemy is in our own families and even in the small book of Jude, we are warned by Jesus' brother James: Jude 1:3-Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Jude 1:4-For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. I believe that these certain men are, in fact, Satan's demons, the Sunday School teacher has been teaching from Jude and showed us that, in fact, people have already crept in unawares, past tense, they were already at work in his day, how much more so do you believe, based on what the SDAs and other cults have taught, that we are definitely living in such a time as we are going to have to contend for our faith as well? 2Cr 11:13-For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 2Cr 11:15 Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. I hope that you can see past my gloom and doom message and see the glorious light of the promise that we have that we will be taken out of the hour of temptation that will come upon the whole world. This world, as we are coming to know it, isn't really worth living in and I struggle every day to resist what God says is inevitable, but I don't believe that he wants us to give up, and I thought that it was great that the preacher spoke of lifting up one another's hands as was done in the battle that lasted all day while Mose's hands were raised and kept up by two men that supported him while he rested on a rock. Let's do as the preacher said and "hold up each other's hands" and God bless you all. Good night, Janice | ||
| Janice (Janice) |
I have really enjoyed all the posts tonight that spoke about the "charity" work of the SDAs as well as other cults. That is a tactic used and totally blown out of the water with the one verse of scripture that is used to support the cause. The verse I allude to is: Jam 1:27-Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, [and] to keep himself unspotted from the world. Again, I think this is taken out of context and built upon in order to make themselves APPEAR as a loving and caring institution. I even told my family about all the beautiful sites of Hawaii only to have my sister ask why I didn't have a picture of the SDA hospital that I had passed by on a guided tour. I will add here too that the Freemasons/Shriners love to boast about their burn centers that they have set up all over the world that help the children as well. Oops, guess I said the magic word Mason/Shriner that will undoubtedly open a whole nother can of worms. Boy, can I preach a sermon against that little religious group (that my first husband got so smitten and carried away with) on an entirely different string. But I guess I will say good night for the third time and shut this thing down or else I will be showing up again in another post. I know I am probably wearing out my welcome as the saying goes. Good night one more time. Janice | ||
| Dennis (Dennis) |
RAPE TRIALS THREATEN PITCAIRN ISLAND Pitcairn Island (the pride and joy of Adventism), where all 45 inhabitants are Seventh-day Adventists, is now the focus for nine men who were charged with sex crimes against girls from their own community. Additionally, ten more men, who have now moved to New Zealand, are also being investigated for similar offenses. Detectives from the British High Commission in Wellington, New Zealand have interviewed every woman who had lived on the island in the past twenty years. Pitcairn residents would like the proceedings to take place on their island, but Pitcairn, which has no airstrip, is considered too remote to be a suitable venue; it lacks infrastructure such as a large court room and holding cells. The Pitcairn public prosecutor, Simon Moore, said in a statement that he intended to bring charges for the rape of girls as young as 7 and 10, and for indecent assault against a girl aged three. The inner workings of this community will be exposed at a criminal trial that promises to be one of the most complex in British legal history. Sylvia and I noticed a prominent display about Pitcairn Islanders when we visited the old General Conference headquarters in Takoma Park, MD about thirty years ago. They may be well-advised to remove the display if they moved it to their new headquarters in Hagerstown, MD. It is apparent that Seventh-day Adventists have more than their share of sex scandals around the world. Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
They have more and more in common with the Catholic church, don't they? | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
I'll be waiting for the article in the next Review! | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Wow! Why am I always not surprised, yet surprised? I guess its the blatant nature of this crime. They do have a lot in common with the Catholics, Sabra! Colleen | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
Do any of you get the Proclamation Magazine? I just get my new issue in yesterdays mail and it is a whopper! He has in it part one of a two part series on the SDA churches psition on abortion. There was some statements in the article that are just sickening. The Adventist church claims to be the ONLY church that teaches the validity of the 10 commandments and then refuses to take a stand on the 6th commandment (or the 5th commandment for us Lutherans and Catholics out there). I'll tell you right now, if I ever have an Adventist tell me again about how their denomination has to be the true and right church because they teach the commandmants I promise I will come back with telling them that is not true because of the SDA medical facilities doing abortions and the church itself refusing to take an anti-abortion position. Following the commandments! HA! That's a bold-faced lie if ever I've heard one. Also, the formost abortion provider in the United States is a SDA man. Aparently he own numerous abortion clinics.How come the church condones this? Frankly, and this is just an opiion of mine, I think it all goes to their denial of truly having a spirit that spends eternity with God. They don't have assurrance of eternal life so I guess they figure it's just not a big deal. Look up the word "eternal" in the dictinary. I used to think I was te only one who read John 3:16 to mean eternal life when I read those words but that was only because the only funerals I'd ever been to are the depressing SDA funerals. Then I attended a Lutheran funeral awhile back and the minister based his talk on John 3:16 and I finilly realized I am not the only one to understand that verse as I understand it. The SDA's and the JW's can tell me until they are blue-faced that they believe in eternal life but they don't. If the dead are taking a break between life and eternal life then it is not eternal life, it is two different lifes. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Susan, very excellent point. I agree that the basic problem with the SDA position on abortion is their non-belief in the spirit of man being something that is not just breath. I really believe that particular view underlies much of the heresy in their doctrines. Colleen | ||
| Dennis (Dennis) |
Amen, Colleen and Sabra! Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Rey_cantu Registered user Username: Rey_cantu Post Number: 5 Registered: 2-2004 |
dennis, did you get my email on wed. 2/25/04?? i am rey cantu, former sda pastor. found the truth in september of 2003. planning reunion july 30,31 2004 in Dallas, Texas. for all the former sda. the invitation is world wide. dale r. has confirm. the evanglical radio will be given us support. putting this event live in the radio that saturday. all the evangelical pastors from the metroplex are invited. thanks to collins for taking the time and effort for calling me and doing the report for the magazine "proclamation" we are working hard here in texas, preaching the truth. we have rised the flag of freedom in christ!!!!! the solgan for this magnum event is we are not alone!!!!!!!! i will send you the event goals tommorrow. rey cantu | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 276 Registered: 1-2003 |
I am located in Texas as well as Plain Patti aka Dr Patti...can we join in? | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 29 Registered: 4-2000 |
Rey, Yes, I received the email message today. Thanks! Dennis Fischer |
