| Author | Message | ||
| Colleentinker |
I'm hesitant to bring up this subject, but I'm going to. I want to state clearly that I am not feeling critical of sincere believers of any persuasion, even Adventist. But the reality of what IS seems worth mentioning. I do not wish to create an argument or hard feelings. I do NOT feel angry. I do feel grateful to God for showing us reality, increment by increment. Easter and the whole Passion Week have become really meaningful to me. It is such an amazing thing to know Jesus and to feel love for him .The reality of his dying to create a living way to God is unimaginable. The fact of his resurrection and subsequent ascension and the sending of the Holy Spirit have created a completely new life for us. I feel deeply grateful. I went on Friday into the Campus Store in Loma Linda after picking up a perscription to see if I could find some Easter plates and napkins. They have a gift shop and a small book store there. Previously last week I had shopped in a Christian bookstore in Redlands and had found a nice complement of Easter cards with praise for Jesus' life and gifts to us. I looked at the collection of Easter cards at the LLU store, and none of them had a religious theme. They were all based on secular themes or simply on themes of friendship and love. There was no reference to Jesus, the resurrection, or the power we have in Christ. The only plates and napkins they had were decorated with bunnies and eggs. The table they had with displays of Easter items were all secular: eggs, rabbits, baskets, candy, etc. In that entire store there was not one Easter item which referred to Jesus' life, death, or resurrection. The reality of what I saw seemed almost physical in its force. The "problem" Adventists have with Easter is not Sunday--that's peripheral. The real problem is that it really is uncomfortable for them to focus on the cross and the resurrection. Even though they say they those things are necessary, the cross is messy, and a clean forgiveness is much more appealing. As a friend of mine said recently, in So. California there are many "liberal" Adventists who don't mind adapting to what's widely accepted--a sort-of "bait and switch". For example, two churches in So. Cal are advertising Sunday morning Easter services this year. One is starting with a pancake breakfast and includes an Easter egg hunt. One is offering (via radio spots) baptisms at sunrise. But they are still inviting people to Adventism. Deception is subtle and hard to discern. Some Adventist churches have actually been open to truth and have begun meeting on Sunday because they are becoming part of the body of Christ. But others, such as one in Las Vegas, have spawned "community churches" which meet on Sunday. When people become regular attendees, they begin Bible studies and learn about the Sabbath and become integrated into the Adventist church. I am more convinced than ever that Jesus and the cross and the resurrection are the center of Christianity. Our focus must be on a relationship with Jesus or we miss the entire reality of Christianity. I praise God for his unimaginable gift and for his eternal life. I praise him for giving us the opportunity to remember what he has done. And I pray for his protection of our hearts and minds as we enter this passion week, when distraction and deception can so easily obscure the singular events that made us united with Christ in God. Praise Him for Life! Colleen | ||
| Chuckiej |
I've never seen anything to make me think that SDA's are uncomfortable with the Crucifixion or Resurrection. The SDA hymnal has Old Rugged Cross, He Lives and lots of other hymns under the heading Ressurection and Crucifixion. There Is a Fountain is my favorite hymn, and it's probably the "goriest" one in the hymnal. Last year, I ordered The Four Faces of Jesus from ABC, a treatment of the Gospels. The chapter on Luke graphically describes the horrors that the Lord went through. It tells how the whip they used to scourge Him had pieces of bone and lead woven into it. If a soldier struck the victim too low, it would puncture their lungs and kill them. Whatever the reasons for SDA discomfort about Easter, there is enough evidence to show that the reason is NOT some attempt to hide from Crucifixion or Resurrection | ||
| Dennis |
A dear, elderly SDA friend(lifelong denominational worker) confided in me by saying "sometimes I think we make too much of Jesus." She was saying this in response to the local Adventist college planning an Easter drama. In a another situation, a devout Adventist relative stated in our home, that "it seems Jesus is now getting overemphasized in our church." This statement was made in response to talking about the historic Adventist problems with legalism. A relationship with Jesus is not common conversation in most Adventist circles. Their true delight is Sabbatizing, Pharisee-style. Their conversation usually centers in observing the position of the sun instead of the position of the SON. | ||
| Chuckiej |
It's too bad that some SDA's think we spend "too much time" on Jesus. Especially since the chapter on God the Son is the longest in the 27 beliefs book (yes, longer than the Sabbath or IJ) plus a separate chapter on His life death and resurrection. I guess if a few people feel uthe church is spending too much time on Him, they may have Him in the right place after all. | ||
| Violet |
Dennis, you are kidding? Right??? How could Jesus be emphasized too much in the church? Jesus IS the church. I bought a new book yesterday. The prayer of Jabez I Chronicals 4: 9-10. I don't know if it has been mentioned here before if so it is worth mentioning again and again. I guess it is a best seller right now. Its 4 lines in of a prayer inside a long list of geneology but it gives great hope and insight into the power of miracles God can work in your life if only you ask for His blessings. I am so excited and plan on putting this into work in my life. | ||
| Sherry2 |
Man, you and me Violet, must be on the same book list. I just started reading the Prayer of Jabez two nights ago. Isn't that funny? Let me know how you enjoy "Fresh wind, Fresh Spirit." :) | ||
| Violet |
Sherry I will. I am still waiting for it to get to my library. It took me about 2 hours to read the Jabez book then I gave it to my husband and told him to read it. We started a new business in February and I was beginning to think I was going to have to go back to work for a short time. But after reading that book I don't think that is what God wants me to do. Why would he lead us to this new business and then send me, the mother of an 8 and 11 year old off 9 hours a day. It did not seem to fit, so I felt the Holy Spirit prompting me to ask for the blessings of God to make it all work out. I now am confident He will see us through this phase in our lives without me leaving the kids. | ||
| Colleentinker |
I started reading The Prayer of Jabez last night, too! I am absolutely convinced that God provides for us when we completely trust him with our needs and open ourselves to his solutions. When we try to decide how to solve the problem, we stop trusting God. We have had some totally shocking answers to prayer, and even when God provides blessings we could not have provided for ourselves, he does it with our growth and discipline in mind. God's provisions always seem to be linked to new lessons in how to live with Him as the center of our lives. God does provide, and his blessings also demand that we surrender our egos and our control and our good ideas to him. Elizabeth Inrig, leader of Women's Ministries at our church, often says, you may have really good ideas, but if they're not God's ideas, they won't end up being good. And God's ideas almost always catch you by surprise! I want to mention, while I'm here, that today is the day of Passion Week on which Jesus made his denunciation of the Jewish leaders on the steps of the temple. Read the story in Matthew 23. If you happen to have The Visual Bible video of Matthew, watch that scene. (I think it's near the end of tape 3.) The arresting thing about this story which the video protrayed was Jesus saying these words of condemnation and judgment and pleading not with anger and fury, as I had always imagined, but with anger and deep hurt and betrayal, much like a person would talk to a spouse who had hurt him or her beyond repair. The emotions of love and hurt which I saw in the video portrayal has forever changed the way I think of Jesus talking to the Jews. He loved them, and it hurt him almost to the point of collapse to have to face them with the depth of their betrayal and unrepentance. He loved them, and he did not want to lose them. It's hard to imagine the searing emotions and physical suffering Jesus endured this week. Praising Jesus for his unfathomable sacrifice, Colleen | ||
| Doug222 |
I've heard a lot about this "prayer of Jabez" recently (not just from this forum). I must admit that I have not read the book yet, but I have read the account in 1 Chronicles. Maybe I am missing something, but there does not seem to be anything extraordinary about Jabez's petition. Can someone give the reader's digest version of what makes this particular prayer so special. Forgive me for my skepticism (spoken out of ignorance I assure you), but this sounds like another "name it and claim it" formula for obtaining God's blessing. Please enlighten me! In His Grace Doug | ||
| Violet |
First of all you need to read the book. But a simplified version is that God is waiting to give us blessings, and expand our territory to witness for Him. Currently most are afraid to ask for blessings in fear of being greedy, but God wants to give them to us. I am not talking about money or material things exclusively. He talks about talking with people and having the opportunity to share Christ with them. We should ask for the blessings--are we not told ask and you will receive? That you want God to expand our territory--this could be someone you meet at the park or on an airplane. Anywhere you can have influence for Christ. That you be kept from evil--you are asking not for the ability to resist tempation but as the Lords Prayer tells us to keep us from evil in the first place. And last to cause no pain. I see this as the ability to witness to others without offending them. To show them the goodness of God without causing offense. In other words you are praying for yourself, (often thought to be selfish). But something I learned when I was in nursing school, you must first take care of yourself before you can help others. This is the same concept and really makes sense to me. What do the rest of you think? | ||
| Violet |
PS. When I first heard of this, I thought God hid this so that not everyone who surface reads the scripture will find it. They must first be diligently searcing the scripture to find it. Therefore it must be powerful. Just a thought | ||
| Colleentinker |
You're right, Violet. I think we may have thought praying for ourselves was selfish because we knew deep down inside that our requests WERE selfish! The miracle of knowing Jesus is that he begins to teach us how to pray and to reveal his will to us. We're in a realtionship with him, and in a dynamic relationship we ask how we can know the other better and serve the other better, and we also can tell him what we need and struggle with. We can also ask him to teach us to recognize his will. Today, Thursday, is the day during Passion Week that Jesus celebrated Passover with his disciples in that upper room. This is the day he transformed the Jewish Seder into Communion. You can read the story in Matthew 26. Think of the impact of those words: "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins." (v. 28) This is also the night of Gethsemane. Jesus did not want to endure what he already had chosen to endure. One thing that intrigues me about the Gethsemane story is what he said to his sleeping disciples, "Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak." (v. 41) I think the disciples stupor was part of the spiritual battle that was raging that night. Jesus knew those disciples would be faced with severe opposition, hatred, and temptation. I grew up thinking Jesus' asking them to pray was for him--and I'm sure that partly that was the case. But the bigger picture I'm starting to see suggests that Jesus wanted them to pray because he knew evil was attempting to end forever God's mercy, forgiveness, and grace. He wanted his disciples to be safe and spiritually protected. He knew that for a period of hours, he would be dead. Imagine the darkness that would create, with Satan attempting to rejoice with his supposed triumph. The issues at stake were more than Jesus' certain physical suffering, as horrific as that would be. His disciples were still seeing reality only in part. They knew Jesus was the Son of God, but they hadn't yet experienced the reality of the resurrection and the coming of the Holy Spirit. I don't begin to understand the depth and breadth of what happened that night in Gethsemane and during the succeeding days, but I do know it changed history and the future--at the same time that in eternity, Jesus was already the Lamb slain from the creation of the earth! I praise God for what he did--for what He still is doing in us! Colleen | ||
| Shereen |
WOW!!! I never really looked at it that way Colleen. I never really paid much attention to the depth of it all. I am having one of those moments when the realization is so enormous and clear. All I can say is WOW!! I will have to contemplate this when I have some quite time after work and kids tonight. I am looking forward to being still and really "knowing" it. | ||
| Sherry2 |
Doug, let me just assure you it's not a name it, claim it thing. He even mentions that in the book (the wrongness of it)...What drew him to the prayer of Jabez was the fact that this was a geneology list, and God inspires the person to stop midstream so to speak, and write about his servant Jabez, and then go on listing the other people. If God thought it was important enough to have this prayer inserted in the middle of a geneology, then I think it bears looking at for myself. The ironic thing was as well that Jabez name was "to cause pain", and part of his prayer was praying to be kept from evil that he would not cause pain. In Hebrew tradition naming your children was like prophesying their future. Jacob as an example. But God changed his name to Israel. So we are doomed to a future of sinfulness, then Christ comes along, and we become part of His family, and we are given new names, a new name - no longer of the lineage of Adam, we become part of the lineage of Christ - spiritually born. Anyhow, I'm finding the book interesting. I had the same thoughts about it as you Doug when I first heard about it. But I've learned to check things out for myself...something leaving SDAism did for me...examine everything for myself, and not just take someone else's word for it. Happy Examining! :) To everyone, please pray for me and my hubby tonight. We are going together to a Maudy Thurs. service and will be having communion together, something we haven't done in 6 months now. Thanks. | ||
| Colleentinker |
Sherry, my prayers are with you. Your service may be over by now, what with time zone differences, etc., but I'll still pray for spiritual awakening and bonding . How wonderful that he went with you! Love, Colleen | ||
| Sherry2 |
We had a really nice time together last night. We both enjoyed it. Funny how God works, but we ran into an old friend of mine who used to live with us for a season. I didn't know what had happened to her and wasn't even sure she was alive. Wow! Also a former Adventist...now going to this church where I attend once in a while to. Pretty cool. I have never been to a service where you go up and break of a piece of bread from the elder and then dip it in the wine (grape juice in this case). And then having him say to me personally one on one "This is His body and His blood shed for you" was just so impactful. I just love this fellowshiping with other faiths and how they celebrate things. They had a whole Seder table set up and went through the passover and what it was like and about, and then pointing these things to Christ. So cool! This morning I was praying, and wanting to get the Jabez prayer out, so I looked for my book to find the text, and there on my table was the prayer on a paper blown up big. I was like "Wow! Where'd this come from?" So later I called Jon at work to ask him if he had made it for me. He said someone had made an extra copy of it, and he just thought I'd find it interesting so he brought it home, totally unaware that I was reading the book. Is that awesome or what!? That God cares for me astounds me. I am so thankful for His love and grace this morning. | ||
| Violet |
Sherry, the first time I attended a Sunday Church they had communion like that. We went up took a wafer and dipped it into the juice, we were required the where name tags, I soon found out why. The person holding the tray CALLED MY NAME!!! and said that this was Jesus body and He died for me. I felt a rush of fellowship like never before. I had never met this woman before, but just by using my name it felt so close. So much more spriritual than I had every had before. I so happy you had a great experiance. Vi PS I prayed the Jabez prayer yesterday morning, yesterday afternoon the head of the PTA called me and wanted to know if I would be the asst. treasurer for the PTA. I have never attended a meeting, I put in last year, no phone call, put in this year and the same day I prayed she called. These women are very influential in my community. I can see the Lord moving already. | ||
| Doug222 |
Believe it or not, I experienced a communion service such as this in a SDA Church. I was visiting the Kettering SDA church in Ohio on Easter weekend a few years ago. They did Communion the same way. No footwashing, and you had to come forward to receive communion. Actually, they had officers at the front of each section of the church. You would come forward, break off a piece of bread and dip it in the large cup of wine they were hodling. No one spoke to you, and you were able to stand there and meditate as you partook. It was a very nice (although different) experience. In His Grace Doug | ||
| Colleentinker |
Sherry, I'm so happy about your evening with your husband! And, Violet, I understand your amazement. One of the biggest impacts on me in leaving Adventism and joining the Christian community was discovering prayer. God is so faithful! Today is the day in Passion Week when Jesus suffered and died. (Matthew 26 and 27) His trial before Annas and Caiaphas probably happened in the very early hours of the morning. He was shuttled to Pilot and Herod and back to Pilot. He was tortured and mocked by the Jews, then scourged by the Romans. When Pilot tried to ease his conscience and offered the crowd Jesus or Barabbas, the Jews did something that brings tears to my eyes because of the magnitude of its horror. They said, "Give us Barabbas," and about Jesus they said, "His blood be upon us and upon our children." They cursed themselves. They actually cursed themselves for the rest of time. Yet they were still God's chosen people, and God's blessings are irrevocable. I believe these facts are why Paul says that just as the Gentiles were disobedient and now have received mercy, so the Jews have become disobedient that they, too, may receive mercy. "For God has bound all men over to disobedience sop that he may have mercy on them all." (see Romans 11:11-32) When Jesus hung on the cross and died, he gave up his spirit. The people didn't kill him; he laid his life down in an agony of separation from his Father. And for all of us who have struggled in our lives with fear that we were not saved, these amazing words came out of Jesus' mouth as he died, "It is finished!" Our sin, which he completely took, was redeemed. Atonement was complete! There are no more parts which we have to work out. Jesus did it all! It is finished! Just to verify the completion, the heavy veil, sprinkled with years' worth of sacrificial blood, which separated the Holy Place from the Most Holy Place was torn miraculously from top to bottom. There is no more Holy and Most Holy. God's presence is available to everyone now through the body and blood of Jesus. We can all live in the presence of the Most Holy. When the Holy Spirit indwells a Christ-follower, that person becomes the temple of God. The Most Holy Place is where God is, and we are his body. I praise God for restoring us to himself. I hope you all get a chance to go to a Good Friday service tonight. It is a wonderful gift to be able to embrace Passion Week and the events which happened on each day. Good Friday is the day Jesus paid for our sin. This is the day he made a living way--his blood--between us and his Father. Praise Him! In His grace, Colleen | ||
| Violet |
Last night I went the a drama at Oral Roberts University. He's Alive. There must of been a cast of 100 +. It was one of the most moving plays I had ever been to. It was not the play but the reaction of the people. When Jesus came out of the grave people jumped to their feet cheered and clapped. You would of thought the hometown football team had just won state. The more I have reflected on this I see that there is nothing disrepectful about this. Why would Jesus not want to be cheered just as the local quarterback, He was victorious He deserves to be cheered. I wonder if He ever gets tired of the somber faces trying to be "reverant"? |
