| Author | Message | ||
| Jtree |
THE CHRISTIAN SABBATH: 1 WHAT IS THE CHRISTIAN SABBATH? Our English word sabbath derives from the Greek sabbaton, which in turn derives from the Hebrew sabbat. A sabbath is "a cessation from activity; rest." Our question therefore is "What is the Christian's rest? In what does he cease from work?" The Christian sabbath is not the "sabbath of creation" mentioned in Genesis 2:1-3: "... And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done...." This is the first mention of a sabbath in the Bible. It was a day of rest. This sabbath is not the Christian sabbath because: 1) It was observed by God alone at the completion of His work of creation (1:1-2:1). Furthermore, this sabbath of God was not merely a day of rest, but a perpetual rest, as His work of creation was once-for-all completed (2:1). Man, who had been created on the sixth day (1:26-31), could not rest from work on this day because he had done no work. 2) The Bible contains no commandment from God to man to observe a weekly sabbath/rest for thousands of years after creation, until about 1500 BC. And there is no Biblical record that such a weekly sabbath was ever observed by Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, or any of their contemporaries. The Christian sabbath is not the "sabbath of manna-gathering" mentioned in Exodus 16:23-30. This was the first commandment from God to man to observe a weekly sabbath. It was given to the newly-constituted nation Israel during their wanderings from Egypt to the Promised Land. God promised them a daily portion of manna, or bread from heaven, for the first six days of every week, but none for the seventh. The seventh day was to be a day of rest. Therefore, God commanded Israel to gather a double portion of manna on the sixth day to suffice for the seventh. This "sabbath of manna-gathering" is not the Christian sabbath because both it and the manna were given only to the nation Israel, not to Gentile nations. The Christian sabbath is not the "sabbath of the Ten Commandments" mentioned in Exodus 20:1-7: "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy...." (vv.8-11). The Ten Commandments were the code of law which set forth Israel's responsibility to God under the covenant He made with them at Mount Sinai (19:3-8; 34:28b). The "sabbath of the Ten Commandments" is not the Christian sabbath because: 1) It and the Ten Commandments and the Sinaitic Covenant were given only to Israel, that nation whom "God ... brought ... out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage" (20:1f). 2) The Sinaitic Covenant is no longer in effect because it has been abrogated and superseded by the New Covenant instituted by Jesus Christ (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Matthew 26:26-28; Hebrews 8; 10:11-18). Since the Old Covenant is no longer in effect, the sabbath it required is also no longer in effect. Consequently, those who enter into this New Covenant with God through belief in Jesus Christ are told to ignore those who judge them for not observing sabbaths (Colossians 2:16). Furthermore, God approves the believer who "esteems every day alike" (Romans 14:5). The Christian sabbath is that of the New Covenant. It is not one day of the week. It is rather that spiritual rest which is found in Jesus Christ, the Mediator and Surety of this "better covenant" (Hebrews 7:22; 8:6). He has fulfilled all the work God required for the salvation of His people (John 19:30), and therefore rested from all His saving work. Everyone who trusts in Him for salvation enters into His rest, and forevermore ceases working to obtain God's blessings (Matthew 11:28). "There remains therefore a rest [or sabbath-keeping] for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall ... [in] unbelief" (Hebrews 4:9-11). Have you entered into the sabbath of Jesus Christ? | ||
| Lori |
Yes!!! And what a wonderful blessing it is!!! Jtree, that was a wonderful presentation of the sabbath rest!!! Thank you! Oh, how I yearn for my family to understand the fullness of the sabbath rest in Jesus Christ-if their blinded eyes could just get a glimpse of it! So many times I have wondered "why,me? why did I have to be the one to have found the truth first? why didn't you chose some other member of my family? God it hurts to be rejected and thought so little of, why did you pick me?" Yes, it still hurts. And yes, those family members that are still Adventist think very little of my relationship with Christ; to them it is not real. But inspite of it all, I am so thankful that God selected me to learn the truth because now I have the peace of God. I have a confidence in Jesus Christ that will sustain me through whatever comes my way. I have a personal sense of destiny that can not be shaken. I have learned what it means to love God the Father. Knowing what I know now makes me grieve for those that don't have what I have. My Adventist family has "The Sabbath Day" but they do not have confidence in Christ, they do not have inner peace in their souls. Only the true Sabbath Rest of Jesus Christ can provide those. We must be careful--just as we do not want to be excluded from the body of Christ by others--we must not exclude our loved Adventist family and friends from the body of Christ. They can very well be saved and still be convinced of the Adventist doctrines (only God knows). However, in accepting the false doctrines of Adventism they have stepped outside of the plan of God. This does not mean that they are destined for hell--it simply means that they have "lost out" on the blessings of God by rejecting his plan for their lives. Just because someone doesn't possess the peace of God doesn't mean they aren't believers. It only means they are carnal Christians. (1 Cor. 3:1-3). May our lives inside the Sabbath rest of Jesus Christ speak volumes to them!!! Our calm assurance in the storms of life will tell them more than any Scriptures we quote. All the rejection and heartache that this world has to offer is nothing in comparison to the tremendous blessings of resting in Jesus Christ!!! I have just begun to understand why Paul was so eager to share Jesus Christ with everyone. He knew the perfect happiness of God and it was something that could not be restrained by any outside pressure. The outside pressures of the world never reached the inner sanctum of Paul's soul. Paul experienced the sabbath rest in a way that few Christians ever do. I have not attained this by any means but I know it's there and I know that it is attainable if I continue to strive to achieve it through the power of Christ working in me. God can use us in ways that we can not even imagine if we will simply concentrate on him--be "pre-occupied" with the person of Jesus Christ. The blessings of our perfect rest in Christ will overflow and will bless the lives of those around us. We will find more success in witnessing to others if we concentrate more on ourselves (remaining moment by moment in the sabbath rest of Christ) and less on how we are going to battle with them with Scripture. Jtree, I enjoyed your study of the Sabbath rest--your study placed the emphasis on Christ just like it's supposed to be!! | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 469 Registered: 11-2002 |
This is very interesting to me. Thank-you, Jtree for posting it. My relatives constantly use the God telling the Isrealites to gather their manna on Fridays as PROOF of the Sabbath being enforced by God long before the 10 Commandments were given. I've never known how to respond. Please, you all out there, help me out with this? | ||
| Jerry Registered user Username: Jerry Post Number: 392 Registered: 6-2002 |
Actually, Susan_2, Exodus 16 is closer to proof of the opposite. There are stark differences between that "shabbath" and the one described in the Ten Commandments. Most importantly is the consequence of not obeying God's command. Rather than death of the disobedient as described in Exodus 31, the consequence is no food to gather that day. Not only that, but those who tried to disobey did not loose any food they had gathered and kept from the prevoius day. Another thing, it was clearly meant to last only while the COI were in the wilderness in this form. To be sure, there are symbolic forshadowings in the aspects of this "shabbath." However, this is not the Sinai Covenant Commandment any more than the seventh day after creation or the days of the first Passover described in Exodus 12 (where "do no work," keep a day holy, and convocation are first commanded. This is an example of eisegis. That is, they assume it is evidence, therefore, to them it is. | ||
| Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2001 |
Here's one very interesting text that I just "discovered" "This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the DAY that the Lord made the earth and the heavens." Gen 2:4 Notice, God didn't make the world and the heavens in a day-not in a 24 hour day, it says it was 6. So day will have to be just an unspecified unit of time. Just as He rested on the 7th day, it doesn't say the evening and the sun were the 7th day as the other 6 previous state, so it was again an unspecified unit of time, with no constraints. He just rested.......pretty cool I thought. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14 Registered: 12-2003 |
What an interesting point, Sabra! Colleen | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 188 Registered: 7-2003 |
Yes Sabra, the Hebrew word is "yom". It has a large range of meanings and can be literally translated as day, age, life, period, etc. In other words, it can be a very long non-specified time according to a couple of Hebrew lexicons I have consulted. Consider all the ways that the NASB (a very literal translation) translates this one Hebrew word: afternoon* (1), age (8), age* (1), all (1), always* (14), amount* (2), battle (1), birthday* (1), Chronicles* (38), completely* (1), continually* (14), course* (1), daily (22), daily the days (1), day (1115), day of the days (1), day that the period (1), day's (6), day's every day (1), daylight* (1), days (635), days on the day (1), days to day (1), days you shall daily (1), days ago (1), days' (11), each (1), each day (4), entire (2), eternity (1), evening* (1), ever in your life* (1), every day (2), fate (1), first (5), forever* (11), forevermore* (1), full (5), full year (1), future* (1), holiday* (3), later* (2), length (1), life (12), life* (1), lifetime (2), lifetime* (1), live (1), long (2), long as i live (1), long* (11), midday* (1), now (5), older* (1), once (2), period (3), perpetually* (2), present (1), recently (1), reigns (1), ripe* (1), short-lived* (1), so long* (1), some time (1), survived* (2), time (45), time* (1), times* (2), today (172), today* (1), usual (1), very old* (1), when (10), when the days (1), whenever (1), while (3), whole (2), year (10), yearly (5), years (13), yesterday* (1). óNASB Greek-Hebrew Dictionary When you couple this with Heb. 4, it seems highly unlikely that the seventh "day" (yom) of Gen. 2 should be understood as a 24 hour period. Rather it was a rest that God is still in and Adam and Eve only lost when they sinned. Chris | ||
| Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2001 |
Wow Chris! That's a lot of meanings for one little word. Seems pretty clear to me! I don't know how they can see Heb. 4 any other way. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 149 Registered: 7-2003 |
Because they are trying to prove the Sabbath is required by the NT and they will use anything to prove it. I still can't get how they can say Col 2:16 and Romans 14 does not refer to the 7th day Sabbath ... and where the scripture makes that exclusion.... That's a rhetorical statement, really. The answer is the same as the first statment. What I really can't understand is WHY? Why do they want to create such division and peculiarity for themselves ... and frankly I wonder what it really does FOR the cause of Christ. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 256 Registered: 1-2003 |
The Sabbath is weilded as a weapon...think of the judgment people incur/dish out over the Sabbath... Everyone has their own peculiar way of keeping it and those that don't share the same peculiar way of observing it are often shunned on that day. For example: My sister-in-law would never spend the Sabbath day in an SDA home with secular TV on. So the Sabbath causes division in more than one way. I recently found out my sister-in-law has changed her stance on horse back riding on Sabbath which used to be verboten...now her kids can ride only if they don't saddle the horse and they cannot make him sweat or work too hard. Basically they can bareback walk the horse. Care, woe, angst...yoke of bondage! Can you imagine our Jesus imposing these silly rules on people? | ||
| Jerry Registered user Username: Jerry Post Number: 397 Registered: 6-2002 |
"and frankly I wonder what it really does FOR the cause of Christ." Ah, there is the point! I think of it this way: Underneath all of this "stone-wall" defense, is the following subliminal message: "I know the secret truth and YOU DON'T! NYAH NYAH, PLPLPLPL!" In essence, this movement started and stayed with finding ways to make the "true believers" "in the truth" and (much more importantly) everybody else NOT. This is very self centered instead of Christ centered. One of the best examples of this was when a staunch EgGWhiter made a statement that seemed to say "Each must find their own truth." then cited Judges 21:25. That changed the tenor of the statement to mean ". . . and your truth is pathetically wrong." He could not even agree to disagree. THAT is self centered, win at all costs. (You know who I mean, Pheeki!) If they had started with a position sounding something like this "This is my best understanding of what is right, I am going to stay with it, and God bless everyone who sincerely seeks God." It would be a different story. However, that is not at all what we hear. Christ is not the prize, winning is the prize in that case. Sad | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 22 Registered: 12-2003 |
That's a good point, Jerry. "Christ is not the prize, winning is the prize..." In spite of the rhetoric, Jesus is not the prize to an Adventist. How amazing that we can really know him! Sometimes I reflect on the years of confusion and angst when I sensed that something was missing, but I couldn't figure out what it was or how to get "it". Adventism has carefully, subtly, and deliberately diminshed Jesus and made him inaccessible. More and more I realize that Jesus is an offense to true Adventism. His name is uncomfortable on their lips; his sacrifice is vaguely irritating instead of profoundly moving; his "example" stands as an accusation to them. Praise God for stripping away the blinders and revealing the astonishing depth of Jesus! It is amazing to KNOW he loves me and to know that I love him. Colleen | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 199 Registered: 7-2003 |
Jerry, you're so right. I can speak from personal experience. For me it was soooo much about being sooooo right all the time no matter what. It didn't matter so much if I actually practiced what I believed, it just mattered that I was right about what I believed and others were wrong. It used to absolutely **ENRAGE** me when I would get into a debate with someone and they would say something like, "Well, if you believe that you must worship on Saturday than I can respect your conviction and your decision, but I don't believe the day of worship is the important thing, it's a relationship with Christ that's really important regardless of the day you worship Him on." That would make me go bannanas. I'm not kidding, I could just feel the rage rise. My inner thoughts would be somethig like, "You stupid Babylonian! It **IS** the day that's important. Don't you get it! If you don't keep the Sabbath then you're not really worshipping God and your lost. Just read your Bible you idiot. It's all right there in the 10 commandments, Daniel, and Revelation (or at least that's what I've been told). I don't even want to talk to you, you lost fool." Of course, I didn't really say that, but I thought something very similar. In retrospect, I think the rage was coming from the fact that I really had no suitable comeback to such a Christ-focused response. That always seemed to end the debate, it's just that at that time I couldn't understand why it ended the debate. Pretty pathetic. Chris | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 153 Registered: 7-2003 |
Did the arrogance flow into other areas of your life? I know that B's "rightness" about the day has spread into almost everything else in his life. Everything is about absolutes and there aren't many areas that are gray. There is the "right" way to eat, dress, walk, talk, think, act, which type computer to use, etc. Now, if it's not something he knows much about, he doesn't say much, but if it is something he has "studied", his way is the only way. He walks by smokers and waves his hands in front of his face like he's driving the smoke away. We work at the same company, and I have had others tell me that they just don't talk to him about non-work things because he is so argumentative about everything. Yet, he is smart, competent in his job and can be charming when he wants to be. I thought the argumentativeness was his personality, but after Chris' remarks, wondered if it might be more related to the rearing as well. I have asked him several times if he really thinks his attitude would cause people to WANT to talk to him even if they did think he was right, but he doesn't care. He says "he can't help it". But I still contend that if a smoker really wanted to stop, for example, he is the last person they would talk to because he has been so judgmental in his obvious condemnation of them. I know my daughter needs a cornea transplant and I've never told him because he says it is "possible" she has medical problems because I ate meat and dairy (milk) products when I was pregnant. I really don't need one more thing for him to blame me for... so I just carry it alone. Anyway, I'm just curiosity if it affected other areas of your life. | ||
| Doug222 Registered user Username: Doug222 Post Number: 440 Registered: 3-2001 |
Melissa, I never really thought of it that way before, but you could be right. I tend to see things in black and white, and many of the other people I know who are SDA are similar. I think it could be a matter of which came first, the chicken or the egg? Those who were raised in Adventism have probably been socialized to see things in black and white terms. On the other hand, Adventism appeals to people who have developed that mindset elsewhere. I am thinking of two women in particular that I know who are extremely dogmatic. Both were converts to Adventism. There are Adventists who are not dogmatic, but they do not tend to be "mainstream Adventists." Just my oinion. Others may have different observations. Doug | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 200 Registered: 7-2003 |
Melissa, I'm sure personality plays a big role (I tend to gravitate to the extreme end of a pole in most things and tend to have little tolerance for moderates), but I also think there is a strong nurture component as well. As as SDA you don't have to worry about struggling with good exegesis because you know there is only one right way to interpret nearly every line of scripture and you know what that interpretation is. There is no struggling with meaning or application because you have a completely authoritative prophet of God speaking the words of God and telling you what to think about nearly every issue. You may not always live up to it all 100%, but at least you KNOW with no doubts what the right food to eat is, how to dress, what not to wear, when and how to worship, exactly what the end times will be like, and on and on and on. There is nothing you don't know, no gray areas, and little if any debate. If any other SDA wants to debate, then just quote what EGW said on the topic and that's the end of it. I really don't ever remember ever talking about any doctrinal issue and hearing someone say, "one possible conclusion that one could draw from scripture is this, but one could also hold a possibly valid, but very different opinion based on this other scripture. Both ideas are within the pale of orthodox Christian thought so study and decide for yourself." There was none of that. It was all, "Here's what Sister White says about this so we know these scriptures must be interpreted in this way." End of story. It's all very easy and all very black and white. Chris | ||
| Jerry Registered user Username: Jerry Post Number: 398 Registered: 6-2002 |
Chris: "It's all very easy and all very black and white." Yep, and whenever I dare to use the words if possible alternative suppose hypothesis consider . . . etc. It is deemed as fantasy, untruth, wild and unrealistic. There is no alternative to her. | ||
| Jerry Registered user Username: Jerry Post Number: 399 Registered: 6-2002 |
p.s. I am very amused by the "ranking" under each of our names.  Hi Colleen, I see this is your first time here, you pleebe, you neophyte, you! I guess when the new version went in, it retstarted its calculations. And, in the spirit of "win at all costs":  HEY! How come I'm only a "Junior" with 398 posts starting in 2002 when Chris is "Senior" with 200 since 2003, HUH?!? (just joking) | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 155 Registered: 7-2003 |
Chris, your experience is a fascinating contradiction of direct statements B has made and I just struggle so much with knowing whether he is trying to be honest as to his experiences or if he is just trying to protect the religion he is trying so hard to convince me is just another denomination. For example, I was telling him a story about my pastorís openness about how he has taught things in the past he no longer teaches. For example, this year he has said in his studies he no longer believes the tithe is required for Christians, but he has taught it in the past. I admired his willingness to show how is growing in his walk and learning even though he is teaching things he has taught before. Heís still human, though heís our pastor. B asked me if I didnít think his pastor did the same thing, and I said I didnít know how since they had EGW and she ìmakes scripture clearî. I also had a friend who knew SDAs in college and he believed some personalities needed the rigid structure of Adventism to manage their faith. I think he may have oversimplified it, but it certainly gave credence to the 'weaker brother' attitude. Your comments are exactly how I see adventism. It is so hard for me to accept that B is that blind, but he doesnít seem to be lying either. Maybe those scales are that thick? I am so thankful you share your stories. It sure helps me digest our conversations. | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 201 Registered: 7-2003 |
Jerry, I guess "I've got too-oo much, time on my hands and it's tickin' away, tickin' away...." Make that 201 :-) Chris | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 202 Registered: 7-2003 |
Melissa, I don't know B, but if I had to guess I would think it's quite likely he is very sincere indeed. I certainly was. Just a few years ago I wasn't the least cognizant of any of the things I am writing today. It just was what it was and it was all I ever knew. Or to put it another way, I didn't know what I didn't know. One side effect of leaving Adventism (at least for me) is a feeling of being adrift, as if there are few absolutes truths you can hang onto anymore. It's a bit bewildering at first. I've found my grounding in spending regular time in serious study of scripture. When I get away from regular time in scripture I sometimes feel suseptible to the buffeting of the winds of doctrine.......it's an ongoing process. Chris | ||
| Hoytster Registered user Username: Hoytster Post Number: 30 Registered: 9-2003 |
I've certainly noticed a tendency toward certitude and argumentativeness in the SDAs I've known... but they are almost entirely my ex and her family, and I thought it was a family trait. After a couple years, I adopted the policy of never making an assertion or voicing an opinion in their presence, because that would inevitably invoke a contradiction on way to an argument. Chris, I'm a newish Christian, in year 5 of my Bible study. It's a Methodist-originated course, with daily readings and a weekly meeting. I'm a co-leader and prepare the class from the provided materials, which have the form "Read this, then answer these questions." THE MANUAL DOESN'T HAVE ANY ANSWERS!!!  The 9-11 of us struggle with the questions. Once in a while, someone offers an idea, and the rest of us say "Sounds good!" and we move on to the next question. More often, we kind of root around the issue seeking understanding. I've learned to embrace the uncertainty and confusion as part of the WONDER! It's a great mystery. The answers are unclear. SOMEDAY ALL WILL BE KNOWN! I'm looking forward to it. Embrace the mystery! Be comfortable with it! It's part of the glory of being (just) human. - Hoytster | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 156 Registered: 7-2003 |
Hoytster, like you, I've learned to bite my tongue a lot, but it only makes me feel like I am somehow unworthy of valuable thought and am getting more aggitated at the silence than I think I would be at the argument. But who knows. I think it's just that I want to "fix" it, even though I know I can't. I can't imagine being in your position, though. I have always found the unknown something to look forward to, at least when it concerns God. It's a little harder when it concerns my kids! Even though we spent all of last year studying Acts at church, I decided to start reading it through again and am continually amazed that I still find new even in what I "just" read. That part of the mystery, I really enjoy. Thanks for your comments, Chris. I have tended to think B was sincere, but he can just switch on a dime and I'm not sure if he even knows how contradictory he is. But I know I am not going to be the one to show him. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 32 Registered: 12-2003 |
I've pondered the arrogance of Adventism quite a lot, too. When I was one, I had no idea I was arrogant. As I left, I thought some of those inside were quite arrogant, but I still thought I wasn't because I'd been open to learning. The farther away from Adventism I've gotten, however, the more I see that I was, indeed, arrogant in my head although I wasn't particularly argumentative about my beliefs. I'm convinced that arrogance (and often argumentativeness) is the result of believing one has The Right Answers. I think such arrogance may occur among "secular" people, as well, who idolize their education or philosophical "insight", etc. I believe that when people are offensively arrogant and/or argumentative, they are probably acting from sin rather than from sincerity. In fact, I have come to believe that much stubborn arrogance (I'm thinking now of reactions I see in stubborn Adventists) indicates a lack of sincerity--a refusal to know truth when one is convicted by it. I only know that one of my continuing prayers now is that God will remove arrogance and ego from me. It is so easy for me to think that I see things as they really are--and I want to see things from God's perspective. (Oh, yes--this member category thing is crazy, huh?! Richard had to re-register me because for some reason when he installed the new software, my name was missing from one member list, and I couldn't post on certain threads...or something like that! [I'm so NOT technologically savvy!] I'm surely looking forward to qualifying to be a Junior Member!) Colleen | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 262 Registered: 1-2003 |
I would like to be a junior member too...although I noticed I had more posts than a senior member has so maybe I should be a senior? | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 263 Registered: 1-2003 |
My husband has accused me (in the past) of seeing everything in black and white. I now see this was because of SDAism. The other forum I inhabit is full of black and white SDA's...I hear statements like.."If you reject Ellen you have rejected Christ." "If you are not of God you are of Satan, there is no in between." "You cannot serve 2 masters." "You either pass the test or you don't." I used to feel sorry for everyone who didn't have the "knowledge" I had...because of Ellen I had all the answers...especially how the end times would "play out"...that there are people on other planets watching this wretched mess but we cannot contact them because they are sinless...The dead are asleep...I could go on. I was arogant and lacking in faith! If you have it all figured out...where is the room for faith? If you can see it already you don't have to go on faith...faith is believing what is not seen! After a year and and a half out of SDAism...I have made a few observations. #1 The SDA don't believe that everything for our salvation was accomplished at the cross... #2 They SDA must be right, no matter what, on the state of the dead...they will argue that point until blue in the face. #3 They don't believe what Jesus said plainly on several points...such as we have crossed from death to life by believing in Him, etc. He also said "all who call on the name of the Lord will be saved." but as soon as you quote that text to an SDA they come back with..."not all who cry Lord, Lord will be saved." That is an SDA favorite...and it makes me wonder why? It is like they want to be the only ones saved and hope against hope Jesus didn't mean he would save sinners that don't keep the Old Covenant laws! God forbid! #4 They can read the same scripture as we do and not see what it plainly says. Example: Christ is the end of the Law for all who believe. It is like their eyes can see it...but they don't understand it. (I guess related to the veil from looking to Moses for salvation?) #4 They have taken non-essential issues and made them salvational. Example: food and drink. #5 They don't consider non-SDA's to be in the body of Christ with them. and finally...when they give up talking to you they quote texts like "Don't cast your pearls before swines." etc. Very Christlike. I was told on the other forum by an SDA that the staunch Ellen apologist on that forum was a prophet, speaking the words of the Holy Spirit to us and she hoped we didn't finally wear him out. (Like none of us have the Holy Spirit! When in reality we are all sealed by the Holy Spirit for redemption and don't need a prophet to interpret what the Holy Spirit wants us to know! We are all competent ministers of the new covenant! But since the SDA think the seal for redemption is the Sabbath...they don't understand this.) Maybe my words are unkind...I hope not...I just had to vent. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 164 Registered: 7-2003 |
The other day I was in B's office and he had this scripture posted on his office wall: Behold, the Lord's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; nor his ear heavy, that it cannot hear. But your iniquities have separated you from your God; and your sins have hidden his face from you so that he will not hear. Isaiah 59:1-2 When I post scriptures, it is to encourage me. But I cannot figure out why that would be a scripture he would want to reference frequently. I cannot figure it out. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 37 Registered: 12-2003 |
Pheeki, I think you have essentially assessed Adventism accurately. While individuals may be different, in general your summary describes the religion. Melissa, do you think B posted that scripture for himself or for the benefit of those who enter his office? Such "witnessing" seems usually to be for the benefit of the "unbelievers". I continue to pray that you'll know what to do about B and about the nature of your and your kids' continuing relationships with him. Colleen | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 167 Registered: 7-2003 |
It's in such small type, you have to bend down to even read it... I gave up long ago trying to under stand his motives, though. I just don't understand his thinking that well. |
