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Jtree
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Paul the apostle has admonished Christians in Col 2:16 to "let no one judge you ... regarding ... sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ."

Here is a necessary exhortation: "let no one judge you regarding sabbaths." Such judgments are made by Sabbatarians, those who believe the Old Covenant Sabbaths are yet binding on Christians today. They are often heard saying:

"God commanded in the fourth of the Ten Commandments, as recorded in Exodus 20:8-11, 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy....'

Why do you violate the commandment of God by not keeping Sabbaths?"

To them we must reply, "The same God who inspired Moses in Old Testament times to command Israel to 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy..'

later inspired Paul to command Christians in these New Testament times to 'let no one judge you regarding sabbaths.'" The Pauline commandment was given after the Mosaic commandment, and therefore clearly has precedence over it. Consequently, those who today would require Christians to observe Sabbaths, or who would judge them for not doing so, are clearly violating the New Testament commandment of God. God approves the Christian who "esteems every day alike" (Rom 14:5) and commands him to "let no one judge you regarding sabbaths."

Here is a glorious explanation: "sabbaths are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ." The substance or body of Christ belongs to these New Testament times, the days of the gospel. These New Testament times began when He was incarnate in human flesh, when "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us" (John 1:14) as "God manifested in the flesh" (1 Tim 3:16; 1 John 1:1). The body of Christ is here presented as having cast a shadow into the previous Old Testament times, the days of the law. His shadow included the Old Testament Sabbaths, which are here called "a shadow of things to come."

Note the contrast between Sabbaths and Christ. They are but shadows, but He is the substance (or body) who cast them. A shadow is but an imperfect representation of the one who casts it.

Accordingly, the rests which were enjoyed in Sabbaths were but imperfect types of the rest which is enjoyed in Christ.

1) Sabbath rests were physical rests, for the body; Christ's rest is spiritual rest, for the soul. He accordingly invites us to "Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavey laden, and I will give you rest.... you will find rest for your souls" (Matt 11:28).

2) Sabbath rests were observed for only one day of the week (after which the observer had to go back to work) and had to be constantly repeated; Christ's rest is observed once for all. We are therefore taught that "he who has entered [Christ's] rest has himself also ceased [forever] from his works as God did from His" (Heb 4:10).

3) Sabbath rests were observed by many who died in unbelief ó even by many of the worst enemies of Christ (see Mark 3:1-6); Christ's rest is enjoyed only by those who believe in Him (Heb 4:3): "For we who have believed do enter that rest." God says to the former, "So I swore in My wrath, they shall not enter My rest" (Heb 4:3). But He says to the latter, "I will give you rest" (Matt 11:28).

The shadow cast by a coming loved one may be considered very dear. But when that loved one has himself arrived, his shadow is forsaken and his body is embraced. In like manner, the Sabbaths in Old Testament times were to be considered "a delight" (Isa 58:13). But when the One who cast those shadows has Himself arrived, His shadow is forsaken and His body is embraced, for He is far more delightful. Believers today have accordingly forsaken Sabbath-keeping and commenced Christ-keeping.

Have your forsaken Sabbath-keeping and found that far greater rest in Jesus Christ. If you have:

"Therefore let no one judge you regarding sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

Joshua of the Rock
Djconklin (Djconklin)
Posted on Saturday, April 13, 2002 - 10:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

>Paul the apostle has admonished Christians in Col 2:16 to "let no one judge you ... regarding ... sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ."

Small detail that changes everything: Paul was telling the believers at Colossae to not let man (outsiders here) to judge them about their eating and drinking that was being one on the days that are mentioned in vs. 16
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 3:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dennis, the textóeven in Greekóclearly does not support your interpretation. The literal translation from the Greek Interlinear Bible says, "Let not therefore anyone judge you in eating and in drinking or in repect of a feast or of a new moon or of sabbaths, which things is(are) a shadow of things coming, but the body [is] of Christ."

The text does not hint, nor does the context, of eating and drinking ON new moons or sabbaths or feast days. All these thingsóeating, drinking, and day-keeping traditionsówere shadows of Christ.

Praise Jesus for fulfilling the Old Covenant and giving us the new in His blood!

Colleen
Jtree (Jtree)
Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 1:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen, his name is David, I do believe.

Still In His grip.
Joshua
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 5:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You're right; thanks, Jtree!

Colleen
Sherry2 (Sherry2)
Posted on Friday, April 19, 2002 - 8:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joshua, I need to chat with you. Remember, I'm the Grand Rapids gal. We IM'ed a long while back. There is some serious interest about an FAF group in Kalamazoo. Mark Martin has agreed to come into town and do an outreach. I think it'd be great to see. Close enough to Battle Creek, the seat of loads of SDA history, and yet far enough away too. We are talking of getting together with the pastor from Calvary Chapel in Kalamazoo and a couple formers in that area. Would you like to be involved too?

Any others who are reading this and from W. Michigan area and have an interest, e-mail me at sherryreinbold@attbi.com

Thanks!!! :)
Thomas1 (Thomas1)
Posted on Friday, April 19, 2002 - 10:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sherry,

I have so many friends and family in the West Michigan area who are still in bondage. My prayers will be with you as you work for the truth.

In His Grace
Thomas
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Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Friday, April 19, 2002 - 2:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sherry, what wonderful news! We'll be praying for you, too!
Colleen
Sherry2 (Sherry2)
Posted on Saturday, April 20, 2002 - 5:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you. All prayer is appreciated. I think I don't have a clue what this journey will hold, but it will be special for all involved. I've been invited to share my story this next Wednesday at our church. Pray for this as well. I've got 10 min. and Lord knows I have a hard time sharing all I'd like to in 10 min. :) I'm hoping to get some McGregor Ministries pamphlets ordered asap to get here in time to distribute. They've got a nice one on Adventism that is inexpensive. I have a friend who distributes those on windows when Revelation Seminars are in her town. As far as this FAF group, we will be meeting to discuss sometime after the 25th. Expect an update then. :) Again, thank you for prayer!!
Sabra (Sabra)
Posted on Saturday, April 20, 2002 - 8:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sherry,

I think that is wonderful and very exciting. Keep us posted and I will keep you in prayer also. They are having the Rev Seminars here, I hadn't heard of the pamphlets, where do you get them? I was thinking of maybe doing something along those lines. So nice of the SDA's to invite me----ha ha ha. I do think a prayer chain is in order to keep people from deception and make the turn out very little or none would be better! They advertise a new and improved seminar. Wonder what's up with that?

God bless your outreach!
Sabra
Sherry2 (Sherry2)
Posted on Saturday, April 20, 2002 - 10:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Sabra, are they advertising it from the SDA church or a typical study with no church name attached. You may want to consider putting out a simple non-inflammatory ad too or posting at local grocery stores "If you receive an advertisement for Revelation Seminar, know that this is put out by the Seventh-day Adventist Church. If you want more information about Adventism, go to www.ellenwhite.org" or something on those lines. It will not legally be derogatory, yet lets people know. You can go to McGregor's Ministries online at http://www.macgregorministries.org/
Sabra (Sabra)
Posted on Saturday, April 20, 2002 - 6:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, they sent us a personlized letter but the insert doesn't say who it's from. Says a free vegetarian supper each Thursday night though, that ought to make people go hmmm. Doesn't say where it will be held either, just register by calling a number.
I posted a while back about a girl who I met when I was unsure about what I was studying. She and her family had come to my neighbors to visit but they weren't home, she came over to ask when they would be home and we ended up talking for a couple of hours. She told me of her experience attending a revelation seminar. She almost joined the church! She told me that she had been really praying about it because she was physically ill at the thought that she had been living in untruth all of her life. She said one day she particularly was praying hard, in the car, and she heard 2 Peter 3:14-18 in her head. She kept driving and heard it again and said it was so strong she had to pull over and get the Bible out of the back seat and read it. Get this:

Therefore beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; and account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation-as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which some things are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you understand these things beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked.

It still gives me chills to read that. She never went back and I know that God sent her to erase any lingering doubt I had at that point. I'm always amazed at how He works in our lives if we just ask!
Sherry2 (Sherry2)
Posted on Saturday, April 20, 2002 - 7:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Praise the Lord, Sabra! What an awesome testimony of that girl. God is so good! Wow!!!
Jtree (Jtree)
Posted on Saturday, April 20, 2002 - 9:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey David, back to your comment, on Col 2:16

We could all argue about this particular scriptures forever, but the fact will remain is that we cannot, nor will we ever!

"let no one judge you ... regarding ... sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ."

In His grip,
Joshua of the Rock
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Sunday, April 21, 2002 - 12:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sabra, I remember reading your post about that girl beforeóbut I hadn't thought about it again until tonight. What a powerful story! Wow! God is so good to communicate to each of us in whatever way we need in order to recognize truth.

Thank you for sharing it again!

I've been wanting to post an interesting "tidbit" I heard this past week, but I've just not had the time to sit and write it out until tonight. I worked at The Quiet Hour in the mid-80's for about three years. It has always been (still is) an independent, family-run radio/publishing Adventist ministy. The Quiet Hour Echoes, which is the monthly newsletter, had the phrase "a supportive ministry of the Seventh-day Adventist Church" on the cover. The broadcasts as well as articles in the Echoes often dealt with SDA doctrines.

This last week I saw an Echoes for the first time in quite a while. (How I got it is another story--someone from The Quiet Hour delivered two HUGE stacks of the newsletter to my school!) And any rate, the tone of newsletter still has a typical SDA "feel"óit's full of short, "feel-good" mission stories, etc. But there is absolutely no mention of it's being Adventist, and there's not even a subtle reference to doctrine. There are several stories of Adventist missionaries in India meeting people who were already Christian and then talking with them about "Bible teachings", ultimately baptizing those already practicing Christians. They do not say they're baptizing them into Adventism; the implication is just that they are providing these people with Christian baptism after expanding their foundation in the Bible.

It is clear, when you know Adventism, that those missionaries are doing what is often called "sheep stealing," but that fact is so camouflaged that the average reader would never know it. There's no hint that the magazine in Adventistóexcept that the speaking schedule for Bill Tucker, the president and speaker, is printed, and many of his appearances are at SDA churches.

That's the background; here's the information I learned that explained the new, generic tone. Richard talked with an acquiantace from The Quiet Hour this week, and this person told him that the church now has official designations for various types of ministries and outreach. The Quiet Hour and other similar ministries fall under the rubric "bridge ministries." These ministries intentionally present a bland, non-denominational, evangelical front to the public. They intentionally avoid any hint that they are Adventist. Their purpose is to get the support and good-will of the public, including the Christian community.

The second level is called "connecting ministries" and includes stop smoking plans and cooking schools. These outreach programs involve direct person-to-person contact, still without an overt denominational flavor.

The third level is called "feeling ministries" (or something similar to thatóRichard couldn't quite rememember exactlyóbut it involves feelings.) This level involves getting people involved in some form of worship and fellowship.

The name of the fourth level, unfortunately, Richard couldn't remember, but it is the level where people are introduced to SDA doctrinesóprobably including the portion of evangelistic ourtreaches where they teach doctrines.

In some ways, I'm glad to know that they have these purposeful divisions. It helps me to explain to my Christian contacts the fact that Adventism is still Adventism even if the Adventists they know seem to be typical evangelicals only with a different worship day.

I just thought it extremely interesting that these four divisions have been planned and discussed and set in motionóeven to the extent that The Quiet Hour, a more-than-60-year-old SDA ministry, has altered its public face to accomodate it place in the line-up.

I keep returning, however, to gratitude to Jesus for having his hand on me all those years and for relentlessly pulling me to himself. I praise God for saving me and shining light into darkness!

Colleen
Sharon (Sharon)
Posted on Sunday, April 21, 2002 - 11:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I sure have missed all of you here. I have moved and my email address has changed slightly. It is sdneufeld@alltel.net
I like coming in here for it has not been that long since finding FAF and finding a lot of information that I really needed. I printed a notebook full and still study it everyday. I am still studing to find out what I beleive. I finally told a cousin that I am no longer Adventist and he told me he felt sorry for me. He told me there are not any contriversies to the Bible of White. I told him when he is ready to study for himself to let me know and I will give him the information I found.
I love you guys.
Sabra (Sabra)
Posted on Sunday, April 21, 2002 - 2:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sharon glad you came back! May the Spirit guide you in all truth and understanding!


Colleen,

You had mentioned the passage in Matthew 5 a while back and I happened across a study last night while watching Mannafest a christian television program. I was very complex and I tried to write notes furiously but I would love to study it some more. They study was in depth regarding the Jewish feasts and the Jewish calendar and how it all tied in together. From what I could understand, the Torah (the law) which consists of Genesis through Duet. was read during the 7 feasts and took 42 months to read completely. Jesus' ministry lasted 3 1/2 years-42 months also and He actually acted out the law as it was being read. For instance, the 40 days Jesus was tempted in the wilderness represented the 40 years Israel wandered in the wilderness, Numbers 21 with the serpant on the pole represented Jesus on the cross as He became sin for us (serpant represents sin) Num 19 about sacrificing the Red Heifer, the priest takes cedar wood, hyssop and scarlet and casts it into the midst of the burning heifer representing the cross, scarlet robe and hyssop/vinegar. When he healed the blind man, according to the Jewish calendar would have been at the time that the festival of lights or Hannakah was celebrated. So every healing and every word had to do with fulfilling the law and the prophets. When He said the spirit of the Lord has annointed me to preach the gospel....to preach the acceptable year of our Lord, he left off the last part of the verse in Isaiah 61:2-and the day of vengence of our God, because that is to come the second time, this time He was to preach deliverance and love and hope. According to the calendar, this would have been prached during the year of Jubilee, when He returns it will be to bring judgement.

I hope that was less confusing than helpful, I know I have very few details but it's becoming more and more clear to me that the symbolism in the Bible is very significant to understanding truth. The christian jews today still say that our world events seem to be centered around the holidays. 9-11 for instance, was the day of repentance for Yom Kippor (I think that's right)

Did any of that make sense?
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Monday, April 22, 2002 - 4:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, Sabra--I understood what you were saying! I do think that the feasts were about the major events in historyócentering on Jesus and his incarnation, the start of the church, and his second return, etc.

And welcome, Sharon! We're glad you're back!

Colleen
Fdauns (Fdauns)
Posted on Tuesday, April 23, 2002 - 8:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Haven't been posting here lately but have been lurking and enjoying the conversations.

This passage, Col 2:16, really made a big impact on me. I was very surprised when I read some non-SDA comments on it. The article was suggesting that Paul was teaching the 7th day was fulfilled and set out to find the flaws in thier logic.

I failed to do so and instead was surprised how much the stuff I taught was not based on anything other than assertions.

I've been studying this now for several years. I've started putting up what I have concluded online, instead of in my private notes. What good does it do anyone but me if its in my private notes ?

Anyway, in addition to the musings site I commented on a while back I've started www.sabbath-truth.net.

I guess I just can't help but want to make sure the word on this gets out. It's not much but its my contribution to the cause.
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Tuesday, April 23, 2002 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

FdaunsóI understand! Thanks for sharing your studies!

I praise God continually for bringing me out of darkness into the security of eternal life in him!

Colleen
Carol_2 (Carol_2)
Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 5:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fdauns - have not been able to access your website - anyone else having problems? would like to check it out. let me know if you know of any problems, thanks!!! love, prayers, and best wishes to all of you, carol
Doug222 (Doug222)
Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 7:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Carol,
Are you sure you are typing ".net" and not ".com?" I have not had any problem accessing his site. There is some great information there.

In His Grace

Doug
Fdauns (Fdauns)
Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 9:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The thing for me about this passage, Col 2:16, is that it says the very thing that, as an Adventist, I went around a declared did not exist in the scriptures.

It is plain and unambiguous.

Paul makes a lot more sense when you read him and what he says without ideas about what he could and couldn't be saying.
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 7:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually, I just tried to go to your site just now, Fdauns, and it wouldn't load for me, either. I don't know whyÖ

Colleen
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 8:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Aha! I can't access your website, Fdauns, using Netscape, but I can access it using Internet Explorer. Maybe this info will helpÖ

Thanks for creating the site!

Colleen
Sabra (Sabra)
Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 8:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fdauns,

I really like your site! Thanks for sharing!
Sabra
Janet (Janet)
Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 9:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fdauns,
I really enjoyed your notes! Thanks!
Janet
Carol_2 (Carol_2)
Posted on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 5:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

same problem for me - was trying to access the site from work (netscape) and couldn't, but was able to at home. great site fdauns, thanks for sharing it with us! carol

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