| Author | Message | ||
| Fdauns |
Its been almost two years since I left the Adventist church. I was born and raised Adventist, educated in Adventist schools all the way from grade school through college. In my case once I started reading the Bible I realized a lot of things didn't I was taught didn't really line up doctrinally with what the Bible said. I left for purely rational doctrinal differences. But once I left emotion came right behind. Relationships with those I knew were immediately and permanently changed. Some close relationships for both myself and my wife who left at the same time, were and are the hardest part. In the past several months I have been dealing with a good bit of anger. Anger at those who, in my humble opinion, willfully and knowingly concocted and perpetuated a series of falsehoods, in order to keep the truth about so many things from coming out. That has started to resolve itself. When dealing with other Christians I find that although we are accepting of each other I am very different from so many of them. The single biggest reason is the subculture of Adventism in which I grew up. My perspective is what it is. Unless you were an Adventist you can never understand some things about how I view the world. These things aren't all bad and they aren't all good. But they are a part of me. They will always be a part of me. Its best not to fight but rather accept that this is who I am. To accept what is and then move on. But I still find the need to think about it from time to time. Especially when we meet with the culture with other family members etc. I like to write little pieces that I remember about things. Usually for my own amusement. But this time I decided to put some of what I remember online. I did this for two reasons. First to give myself an outlet to remember, without bothering those who don't understand outside Adventism, or bringing up topics that cause pain with those I know inside Adventism. The second reason is I want to share this part of what its like to be an SDA with the rest of the Net. I don't think that all the doctrinal arguments, which are primarly what the discussions are about, can ever really explain it. I don't think being an SDA is, from an experiential view, all bad or all good, like so many things. It merely is what it is. Doctrinally there is a lot of issues but experientially is different. To that end I have put two pieces up on http://setfreeindeed.tripod.com/musings/ . I hope posting my URL here is within guidelines for the forum. I have no idea what I'll ever wind up doing with these couple pages. I'll probably add some stuff from time to time. But only if i feel like it. I'm just thinking outloud in this post and so thanks for listening. | ||
| Andrew_adams |
Hey, don't stop there, I did the same thing, and I came up with 40 some pages of my thoughts, I called it THE HEIGHT OF ONE PILLAR. What some people will do to promote a lie. AA | ||
| Sammi |
hi everyone! don't know if this belongs here or not, but it's an experience of mine i've wanted to share that strikes me now as so interesting and something many of you can probably relate to. reading fdauns "musings" (which i enjoyed and look forward to future submissions) reminded me of this experience. this didn't seem like it really fit there, so i'll tell it here. as some of you may know, my husband is a non-sda who never did join the church during our marriage, although he attended with me much more during our soon to be seven years of marriage than he did at the "sunday" church where his membership was. as i've mentioned before on this forum and will remind you, as adventist churches go the one i belonged to was a much more healthy, gospel-focused church than most and my husband always enjoyed it. of course, during those years many in the church were anticipating/praying that my husband would accept the "truth" and become an sda. from time to time friends would ask me, out of his earshot of course, if he had expressed any interest in understanding more about the sbth or taking Bible studies (he'd been a Christian for years of course and knows the Bible better than me and a lot of them.) anyway, probably about a year ago one of my friends asked me if he'd began to read ellen white yet. when i responded no he had not, this person assured me that when my husband began to study ellen white everything would "fit" for him then, everything would just "come together" beatifully. can you believe that? why that experience alone should say volumes! i look back now and cannot understand why i was so blind?! when you finally look in from the outside, it's amazing how diseased it looks. thanks for letting me share, i hope and pray for God's blessings and peace to all of you as we begin a new year. love, sammi (carol) | ||
| Lori |
Your musings are sweet. They are nothing like the memories that I have of being an Adventist youth. I have fumed over some of those memories the last few days. I was contacted by someone that was coordinating a reunion from a non-sda school that I attend. That contact brought back a lot of painful Adventist moments. My freshman and sophomore year of highschool were spent in a Baptist affiliated school. It was a great school--if you weren't a nerdy Adventist. I saw my first theater movie while attending this school, it was a required field trip. No absences would be excused and no one was allowed to stay at the school. We were all loaded on a school bus (as far as I know my brother and I were the only SDA kids in the school). I was terrified. I couldn't believe that my parents hadn't refused for me to attend. After all this was a doctine of the SDA church. I thought I was doing something that was a sin and my parents had done nothing to keep me from having to go. I was afraid that I was going to go to hell because I walked into a movie theater. Other memories: My parents insisted that I take band. Of course I was not allowed to attend any of the football games in which the band was expected to play. Because of this, I was looked down upon by my fellow band members and used as an example by the band teacher who informed everyone that anyone who missed the games would automatically have their grade docked while he looked directly at me. Of course, another problem was pep squad. Every girl that didn't play basketball was in pep squad. Well, everyone but me. I took P.E., which wasn't really a P.E. class at all. My P.E. class, which contained only me and another really weird girl (who stole ice cream from the kitchen everyday) was scheduled at the same time as the girls basketball class so I sat in the bleachers and did my homework while I watched all the "normal kids" practicing for basketball. It looked like so much fun. They were having fun together and I was in the bleachers, for everyone to see, being a weird-o. There are many, many more of these wonderful memories. Yes, I agree that most of the things that happened to us as Adventist are not understandable to those who never were. I'm glad they don't have any understanding of them because for every musing that is humorous there are hundreds of them that are not. | ||
| In_his_service |
What an inteeesting thread. The memories are so fresh, after all these years. Memories of having to put food back into the serving bowl at family dinners (with Non-SDA'S) because it was the "wrong one" and contained meat. Of finding out that the neighbor boy, (my age and very friendly) was a CATHOLIC....and an ALTER BOY! I can remember hiding from him and avoiding him because I was afraid that he would be reporting on my family, information for the soon to be "persecution". Memories of growing up on a totally non meat diet that included huge qualtities of eggs, cheese, butter, salt, sugar and sugar rich desserts, but of course no pepper (that's a sin, you know). I can remember laughing at the Methodists as "believing anyting", the Baptists as being "misled", the Pentatostals as being "Holy rollers", the Catholics as being "duped by the Pope", and generally all "sunday keepers" as being "Babylon". To this day, I recently had a member of my family who is still an adventist hurl the most hated label they could think of, at an actor protraying a fraud minister on Television. They called him a "Blasphemer" and spit out the hated "SUNDAY KEEPER!". I can remember being taught that we were not a church but "The Truth". I can remember being taught that we were the "Remnant". I can remember being fearful of my own cousins because they did not keep sabbath. I can remember wondering where I would "flee" when the great persecution came. Recently I ran accross my SDA Baptismal certificate. You remember, the one that had all of the things you were swearing allegiance to, printed on the inside. I read them through again, and could not beleive that I actually was taught and believed some of these things. Then I remembered that most of my family is still involved, still in bondage, still believing that their names on the church roll is more important than their relationship with Jesus. Still making the statement that "To me, the Sabbath is all there is." And I am so sad. If the Son sets you free.....you are FREE INDEED! Isn't Grace wonderful? In His Grip! Thomas <>< | ||
| Fdauns |
Wow I had no idea how many different stories my post would dredge up. But you know they all connected with me. Lori, my memories aren't necessarily happier than yours. I'm simply choosing, at the moment, to focus on the aspects that have some good in them. Part of our difference is that I spent most of my youth in SDA schools with very little contact with non-SDA's. You it sounds like had the opposite, and IMHO harder road. We had a Pentecostal kid in the church school where I went. I bet his memory of his time among us was in many ways similar, in the opposite direction, to yours Lori. We all knew the Pentecostal movement was a deception of the devil. And some of us kids more or less let him know that. I remember one time he showed up at church. He was on his way to a ball game so was dressed in his uniform and had his ball glove. It caused quite a quiet commotion. I simply loved the stories that the three of you shared above. Sammi, your remembrance exactly fits, its just I don't have a personal memory like that, yet it is part of Adventism. Ditto for Lori and In_His_Service. Would it be appropriate for me to borrow your memories ? Credited however you wish. I really appreciate this forum and don't want to hijack it for my own development ideas. My email is setfreeindeed@lycos.com. Let me know if its OK. | ||
| Sabra |
I think it's the time of year that makes us a bit nostalgic. I have noticed a lot of these old memories coming up lately too. I really must say some professional therapy couldn't hurt in my own case. My whole life was spent with the certainty of empending doom. I remember being in a dark church on a Sabbath Vesper's program while the whole church listened to the tape "NOW!" I was absolutely terrified! Probably about 8 years old. Then around the same time we watch the Corrie Ten Boon (SP?) movie and I worried about being thrown into a concentration camp. Every time I mentioned my future I was always told the Lord would come before I ever had to worry about that. I felt there was no point to planning a future since the Lord was going to come anyways! Our neighbors were Baptist and I always wished I was born Baptist, they seemed so "normal" and happy. I was so isolated. None of our family was Adventist (my Aunt had gone for a while but then left) so I didn't visit with them much, I was an only child, I couldn't go to neighborhood kids houses on Fri night or Sat before sunset.......on and on you all know. What I got from being an SDA was insecurity, low self esteem, solitude, alienation and little hope of anything. I was a little angry at first when I realized how disfunctional it all was and I asked God why I had to go through all of that, but when I receive the letters from Adventists thanking me for my testimony and when I'm able to share scriptures with them and help them find the REAL TRUTH of salvation in Jesus Christ, I know why I went through all of that, I know God had a purpose for my life and that all things do truly work together for good to those who love Him and are called according to His purpose. My Aunt called me two days before Christmas and said she had been studying everything I had sent her and that she is in total agreement with me. She hasn't been in church for over 20 years because she just couldn't live the SDA way so she quit trying. Now she has been reading her Bible and studying and she says she is closer to the Lord than ever before. I am so thankful to have you all to vent to and study with and just as we all come from the same place, we are all going to the same place, thanks to the grace of God. Having SDA family here this week has reminded me where I came from and how much better things are now. I hope I was a light to them and showed them the Spirit of Christ. My mother did say she isn't praying anymore for me to accept the Sabbath, but to know the truth, whatever it is, that is progress! I hope you all have a wonderful, Spirit-filled New Year!! OH, I thought it was interesting several of us had compiled our thoughts, I had started a book entitled "The Burden of My Spirit" and it is along the same lines....coincidence? | ||
| Colleentinker |
What a great thread! I love your memories, and they make me remember my own. What Sabra said above has been my experience this season; spending time with Adventist relatives over the holidays has reminded me starkly of how different it is to live in freedom. I remember as a young teenager being unable to sleep at night for fear I had committed the unpardonable sin, or for fear that I had one sin unconfessed that would keep me out of heaven. I remember my deep anxiety when I learned that EGW said those who eat meat will not be translated when Jesus comes. My parents ate meat at holiday times; even though their families were all SDA, they had both grown up on farms in rural, non-SDA environments. My mom's father raised black Angus cows in Saskatchewan, and every year he butchered the family meat. My grandmother (both she and my grandpa came from Europe) raised her own geese and chickens and turkeys which also served as food. Consequently, when the family got together when I was growing up, we had unimaginably delicious European food featuring meat if my grandma cooked, and at the least we had a turkey at Thanksgiving if we gathered at a cousin's house in the states. The meat, of course, was ALWAYS clean meat. I remember how anxious I was and how I wrestled with whether or not I should forgo the meat next time the family gathered. We ate vege at home most of the time, but I had such a feeling of allowing sin in my life by continuing to occasionally eat clean meat. I also remember that most conversations when we had Adventist company over (my mom liked to entertain) centered on gossipy-type "news" and stories and quite seldom on issues that questioned life and reality and truth. I've begun to realize that almost all my conversations in groups of Adventists before being truly "born again" and getting to know other Christians were superficial and fatiguing. I also realize that I usually disliked being in groups of women with the men congregating in the living room, because it always felt to me as if women talked about trivia. The irony, however, was that the men didn't seem to talk about anything more significant than the women--it was just that their topics were ones I wasn't as familiar with. Now, however, I've discovered (to my shame and great surprise!) that women who are born again have significant and stimulating conversations, and so do born again men, and so do born again children and teenagers! Perhaps the greatest surprise this Christmas was the permeating schizm I felt between those in the group who knew the Lord and those who only knew the church. It was impossible to carry on a sustained, meaningful conversation without resorting to superficial trivia. It makes me remember how comfortable I used to feel in groups of Adventists--protected, understood, similar--and how astonishing it is to find myself looking back at that "belonging" with no regrets and with great joy because of Jesus. He has brought us true reality, and the superficial focus on the familiar Adventist values just seems so empty. Isn't it great to share our memories and compare them to our current experience? God is so good to us! Colleen | ||
| Doug222 |
Sabra, I thought it was funny that you mentioned the tape, "Now" as though everyone would know what you were talking about, then I realized that everyone probably would. I doubt if there is anyone who has been an Adventist more than probably 20 years that is not familiar with that story. I remember that we read it for our Friday evening devotions when I was a kid. I liked it because it was more interesting than having the Bile read. I also can relate to feeling like an outsider. I spent my entire formative years in public school (except for one year). No one but an Adventist can relate to the agony of having a teacher say that she was going to order pizza for the class as a reward. Of course the pizza was going to be pepperoni (sp). I also remember seeing advertisements for movies come on TV, then feeling m heart sink when I realized that it was going to be at the theater. When people would ask me what religion I was, I would tell them Seventh Day Adventist. Of course they would have no clue wat that was, so they would say, "what is that?" I would respond by telling them that it was kind of like a "modern day Jew." Boy I tel you, out of the mouths of babes. Little did I know how accurate I was. I am amazed when I see the parallels between the Pharisees and many SDA's. Amazingly, we don't see it--or we do, but write it off to the fact that the church isn't perfect, but at least we have the truth. Anyway, those are just some musings. I am so glad that my kids do not have to carry that same baggage. In His Grace Doug | ||
| Sabra |
Doug, That is so funny that you mentioned the kids! I'm so excited about my little boy playing t-ball and Friday night football and the girls getting to be cheerleaders if they want! I really felt that I missed out big time on all that fun stuff! I wanted a prom not a BANQUET! ha! And about the pharisees....as I talked to my mom, briefly, about my new faith, I mentioned that the pharisees and the jews in Paul's day had the exact same misunderstanding of the gospel as she has, and how frustrating it must have been for him not to be able to get through to them the simplicity of the plan of salvation. Colleen, I also noticed the endless GOSSIP as my mom and step-dad talked about their church friends....WOW! I realized I used to LOVE to gossip too and now always seem to change the subject with "oh, they are doing the best they can, God bless them" Praise the Lord, the Spirit is working in me and I hardly recognized it before spending time with the Adventists, sad. My youngest daughter got her ears pierced and was worried about what Grandma would say, she informed us that all the young people in the church are getting their ears pierced and wear them to church and that it is fine, she even wears a cross necklace and a diamond ring now...Is she trying to show me that they are changing to mainstream? I found it very interesting and also Bacchiochi has informed me that they don't teach that the Pope changed the Sabbath anymore but now it was the early christians. I told him that if the original message was from God it wouldn't need periodic updates...I think the man is thinking about a lot, I keep praying for him, for all of them. Sorry to change the subject there, so exciting!!! | ||
| Sammi |
gee sabra, you struck a chord with me when you mentioned being unable to plan for a future since Jesus was supposed to come before we grew up anyway. you know, that even bled into my adult life, i'm embarrassed to say. after my daughter was born, for some time i thought that Jesus would surely come before she turned the magic age "12", and if i got my act together and "straightened out" in time, she'd be automatically saved. (pls don't anyone laugh!) thanks everyone for sharing, this forum is such an encouragement for me, when days go by that nobody posts i feel like i'm missing some close friends. i thank God for this forum and all of you. carol (p.s. sabra - your conversation with your aunt was very exciting!!! thanks for sharing that.) | ||
| Fdauns |
Banquets instead of proms, stripples instead of bacon, X instead of Y. Everything has to have an imitation. I have decided, being the forward looking fellow that I am, that when soymeat becomes mainstream an imitation version will be needed. I'm going to make an imitation soymeat. I think I'll make it out of chicken. ;-) I was talking with my wife about the general theme of this thread. She had a memory that we both, in hindsight, found funny, in an odd sort of way. She had some Adventist friends who were convinced that bowling was evil. This seems odd to me since I grew up Adventist and never knew that bowling was supposed to be evil. Anyway she was able to get them to go bowling by telling them that they were going "duck pin" bowling. ( duck pin uses a much smaller ball, no holes, about the size of a small cannonball and smaller pins ). The rationalization was that duck pin bowling wasn't bad. I've met some others in college that thought bowling was bad so it must have been somewhat common. Anyone else here ever hear of that ? What about pinball/video games ? That was straight out but yet it was OK to play PacMan on Atari at home just not at the arcade. And of course with the advent of VCRs, which weren't around to get declared to be immoral, it suddenly became OK to watch the same movies your friends did, just a few months later. It seemed to me growing up, and still does, that it was the location that you engaged in the action, arcade or theater -vs- home that somehow made it wrong..... Sabra, your comment "I told him that if the original message was from God it wouldn't need periodic updates..." is an excellent observation. The reasons have completely changed as to why Adventism is the "Truth" but never the conclusion. The examples of that could set me on a rant that might not end for some time so I'll move on. One more random thought. We had a dinner at a nice resturant with all our family this holiday. Most are still SDA. They were happy they found something on the menu they could eat without questions of conscience. I and one other person had fresh ground black pepper put on our salad by the waitress. The others did not, black pepper is, as any SDA knows, verbotten. It bothered them. But you know the same set that doesn't eat black pepper will eat salsa and hot peppers, those are apparently vegetables, but then so is black pepper. There is a bit of illogic there that makes division by zero look like a reasonable thing to try...... | ||
| In_his_service |
Ah yes, the old Bowling and Biking problem. When I was just starting to date, I took my girl to a bowling alley. There wasn't much else a "good" SDA kid could do(I thought). One of the good Sisters saw us leaving and promptly reported it to the pastor. He came by the house and asked me if it was true. I, of course said it was. He proceeded to show me from the "writings" where Sister White had spoken against the evils of frequenting bowling alleys. I asked him if he had ever been bowling. He replied that he hadn't. I asked him if he would come with us the next saturday night, then tell me what the evil was. To his credit, he agreed to go. The man and his wife had the time of their life. Later he had to admit that he saw no evil there, but as the "Spirit of Prophecy" had warned about it. it would be best not to go. There was also the council against biking. This was always explained as her not being against riding a bike, but in spending large amounts of money on worldly prusuits that could be given to the Lord. It was always funny that when they were confronted with some of her really silly admonitions, there was an "explanation" that made her make sense. Thomas <>< | ||
| Grok |
Hi Ya'll from the cold south... I have been lurking here for a few weeks. And can't resist "looking back". I was a 3rd gen SDA who left about 11 years ago. My uncle told me I was going to hell, and no one else has ever discussed it with me. The most amazing thing about this site is that it confirms that all the bizarre things I was "taught" growing up actually are truly a part of the SDA experience and doctrine and are not just a figment of my feeble memory. Like someone mentioned, people who didn't grow up SDA are incredulous when I start recounting events of my SDA years. They seem so shocked that sometimes I even doubt my own recollection of events and doctrines. This site is exciting to me because, as I mentioned above, I have never discussed any SDA stuff with any other SDAs since. All the SDA church's I had attended (from the conservative east coast group to the backsliding west coast group with one foot in hell) were imploding. Thankfully the Lord led me to a "sola scriptura" church with a brilliant expositor in the pulpit every SUNDAY!!!! Here's a memory for you---I went to an SDA "self-supporting academy". Wow...are those places a magnet for the weirdest of the weird! I recall that every year (sometimes twice a year) we would be sitting in chapel and suddenly some big, rough men would burst in a drag students out their seats and a mock court scene would ensue...well, you probably know or can guess the rest of the story... | ||
| Sabra |
You guys were more oppressed than I. My mother somehow rationalized that in EGW's day the bowling alley and theaters were places where people drank and smoked and were therefore bad, but in our day they were ok (though the bowling alley still serves beer and most allow smoking)we were allowed to go to the movies as long as it was a "decent show" We were strict vegetarian until she discovered that the pastor ate eggs and cheese....then when she started dating a man who ate clean meat we started eating that and drinking cokes and she is now the biggest coffee feen Ihave ever seen! We also went through the period where red pepper was ok but not black HA!!! They (my mother and stepdad) now eat pepper, clean meat, coffee, go to movies, wear wedding and engagement rings, my mother even wears a cross on quite an elaborate gold chain! She said she was wearing earrings to work since all the young Adventists are wearing jewelry now but quit as she felt it was too flashy for her. She argues that she never thought jewelry was wrong, she just didn't want to be a bad example to anyone. She didn't remember making me throw away a necklace my half-sister gave mefor Christmas when Iwas arould 7. God bless them all! I never heard the bike thing, we in Florida must have been a lot more leanient Adventists! Fdauns,I really liked your idea about soy-meat sub. Maybe you could call it "newer meet" | ||
| Sabra |
Hey Grok! Welcome! This therapy session is free of charge and most helpful! Thanks Fdauns for starting this thread! | ||
| Doug222 |
I must say that I am somewhat embrassesed to admit that I did not suffer some of the abuses many of you did. Now isn't that crazy to be comparing degrees of abuse? I realize now why I have not suffered the same degree of backlash that some friends of mine who are walking the same road are experiencing from their families. I have never heard that there was a problem with bowling alleys. In fact, I thought that (along with Rook and Pit--I think they were okay because they used the "herb bearing seeds" that god gave at creation) were the only officially sanctioned Adventist forms of entertainment. I also was not aware that I was not supposed to be eating pepper. I think I had heard somewhere about not usiing condiments, and I believe there was also something about cinnamon (sp). I just found out in the last year that marshmellows were out, and I remember to this day the time I found out that I could no longer eat Jiffy cornbread. I think I had heard the vinegar was verbotten, but it was aways present in our home. How else are you supposed to eat cabbage? My family was no where near as strict as many of yours. We alternated back and forth between being vegetarians and non-vegetarians. We did not go to movie theaters, although by the time we were teenagers, you wouldn't get into too much trouble if you went. It was one of those deals where we respected our parents enough not to come home and boast about it. As it stands now, my mother (who was converted to Adventism) will go to theaters from time to time. My father, who was the second/third generation Adventist in the family would go to select movies in the later years. Friday night activities were out until we were in our late teens. However, the rules were that as long as you live under our parents roof, you had to go to church on Sabbath morning. Of course, the sanctity of the Sabbath had been so ingrained in me by that time, that I think I only went out once or twice on a Friday night--and felt guilty the entire time. Lest anyone thing I was a saint (afterall sainthood and Sabbath keeping are synonymous) I do remember sneaking downstairs and watching the Boston Celtics play the L.A. Lakers in the now famous double overtime playoff game that included the "shot heard round the world." At the time, my high school was also quite the basketball powerhouse, so I remember sneaking to my room to listen to the games on the radio--with the volume way down and my radio under my pillow of course. I am coming to realize that my family was less strict about all the rules (although I did not believe that growing up). The one thing I was taught that I am eternally thankful for is to determine for myself why I believed or did what I did. Unfortunately it has just taken me an additional 25 years to give myself permission to exercise that power. I know I am rambling, but I guess I could sum this up by saying that it is good (I am certainly enjoying it) to reminensce about where we've been and comiserate about how bad it was, but in the final analysis it doesn't really matter if you grew up as a strict sabbatarian or as a "Jack SDA," if you were not introduced to a healthy image of who Jesus is, your life/religion was just as empty and you were just as dead. He certainly fills a void that cannot be filled by anything else. In His Grace Doug | ||
| Jtree |
Welcome to the forum there Grok. I was not raised in a "Christian" home per say. You know the family who has a Bible, who attends church (funerals or weddings only type). ect. you know the story. Thankfully there was a neighbor girl, who from my 7th grade year kept asking me to go to church with her. I asked my parents for the permission to attend. I started going and going and going. You may or may not know the rest of this story. I got saved by going to church and got saved. Well it was a sunday afternoon. I rode my bike all over the place because I was not at the age of driving. I went to a local lake in my area, and once I got there, I was so hot, being mid summer. I dove into this lake and got wet and swam a bit. When I finished going for my swim. I thought of stopping by my at the time "girl friends" home. Who she along with her family attended the same church. Her mom saw that I was wet and asked if I had been swimming. I said "Yes ma'am" and then she CHASTISED me royally for swimming on the "Sabbath" (Sunday). I said, "Ma'am, I'm sorry, but yesterday was the Sabbath, today is the "Lords Day", I see no commandment that says I can not swim on Sunday". She felt it was a form of evil to swim on a certain day. It's ok to swim M-S, but never on Sunday (her "sabbath"). The comment on bowling whew. My spouse loves bowling, I wonder if that had something to do with her leaving the SDA organization? I'll have to ask her that one. | ||
| Fdauns |
Welcome Grok.... Doug makes a good point that the real key is Christ, not whether or not you were allowed to eat Mustard as a kid ;-) But what Doug said about his experiences illustrate just how hard, or impossible, it is to nail down what SDA's believe on any single point. You used the phrase "abuses" to describe some of our upbringing. I'm not sure I'd use that strong a word. What interests me is that you think I, and some others were "strict". But to us growing up we were not. I'm confident that it was not just my family or church because of the large numbers of churches we attended growing up. Dad was a conference employee and we moved a great deal. Also when I went to academy and college my word was not much different than many of the people I met. There were others that to us "took things to extremes" or were "fanatical". And since Ellen counseled against "fanatical" beliefs we were always sure she meant those stricter than us ;-) | ||
| In_his_service |
I have been away from Adventism for 18 years now. Yet there are some things that seem so much like yesterday. I was a second generation, born and bred, educated in the system all but three grades from first grade, through two years at Andrews University, Peanut (that's what the locals used to call them in Berrien Springs). For me the life was not abuse, it was simply our life. Looking back, I don't feel anger or even pain. I am so concerned for those who really believe they are in the Remnant Truth. This includes most of my family. I am concerned that they can even believe there IS a Remnant truth that differs from the truth that has existed for 1800+ years. Truth is Truth! What saints died for in the first century is the same as they are dieing for in the 21'st century. When you read Church history and read the writings of Paul and the history of luke, you find a faith that doesn't resemble what they call Truth, in any way. Did these people die in sin, just because they didn't have the last days message of EGW? When I think of the fear, the mind control through EGW writings, The suspicion, the "separateness" (I know, it's not a real word but it fits), I grieve for those still in bondage. Growing up I could never understand so much of the Bible, especially the writings of Paul. They simply didn't make any sense. They talked about things I had been taught were wrong, like living without the Law. As my circle of influence used to say, "They aren't God's suggestions, they're His COMMANDMENTS". Looking back at what we really were taught to believe, it is so easy to see why most of the people I knew that left, never went anywhere else! They simply stopped trying. The Gospel was just to "easy" for them to believe. The laws and rules and "doctrines" and yes, the Testamonies" were simply too much to live up to. No one ever told them that THAT'S THE POINT! If we COULD keep them, Jesus wouldn't have had to come. Many others simply no longer practice what their church teaches, yet believe that they are going to be saved simply because they are members. They are the saddest of all. Since leaving, I have read the Bible from cover to cover, non stop, in context, some 15 times, (more or less) in seven different translations. Everytime I read it through I am AMAZED at how complete the story is. It's all about Jesus. Not the Law. Not about Sanctuaries, or investigative judgements, or "last day" Remnants. Just Jesus. Try telling that to an Adventist and you will get a look like you are talking some kind of "offshoot" religion. (that's another word from my SDA past) As long as they hold to the "red books" they just can't get it. It goes against everything they are taught, indoctrinated in, and believe with all their heart. I know I too am rambling. But when you see what Reform, Evangelical, Christianity really is, it makes you ill to see what they are forced to settle for. Rules, and Testamonies and prophecies which only make sense when they are "interpreted" with a whole lot of rationalization. Taking a beautiful and perfect gift like Grace and adding to it any form of human effort which takes away from the sovreignty of God. Preaching the Gospel then adding "BUT's". "But" you still have to keep the Law. "But" you still have to keep the Sabbath. "But" we still have to keep the dietary laws. When will they understand, THERE ARE NO BUTS! The Gospel is complete. Grace is the sole action of God and is given as a complete gift. Id think it is healthy to share these experiences with each other. It helps us see that we are not alone. It should also make us sick. If so many of us from all over the country have had such similar experiences, spread over several decades, it is clear that this is not an isolated situation. Those still in Bondage are STILL going through these things and believing these damaging beliefs. I for one am going to make a New Years resolution. Each day, as part of my prayer life, I am going to concentrate one one Adventist that I know. By name for a whole day. There are so many that I couldn't possibly do the whole list each day. I will pray that God's Spirit will lead those who are willing and teach them the truth as it really is. Not the way they think it is, have been taught it is, or want it to be. I do not pray for the organization because as I see it, it has been steeped in flasehood for too many years. I am not an Adventist "reformer". I believe our prayers should be for those individuals who are still caught, that they may be FREE. "If the Son set's you free, you are free INDEED!" In His Grip! Thomas <>< |
