| Author | Message | ||
| Jtree |
The gift of rest! By Dr. James Kennedy, PhD "We live in a time when the institution of the Sabbath has come under great attack from several different points of view. There are those who declare that it was abolished by Christ and is no longer in effect today. But what do the Scriptures teach? The Scriptures do not teach that Christ ever annulled, abrogated, or abolished the Sabbath or any of the Commandments. On the contrary, the Scripture very plainly teach that the Commandments remain in effect today and have been strengthened by Christ who declared that not only the deed but the thought and the word are part of that which God has given us. He clearly states that if we love Him, we will keep His commandments. . . . Even as late as the Book of Revelation we read that here is the patience of the saints of God, those who have the faith of Jesus and keep the commandments of God. In the very last chapter of the Bible we read of those who keep the commandments of God and have the right to the tree of life." Source: http://www.crministries.org/ram/TTT020107.ram http://www.crministries.org/ram/TTT020108.ram (FAFFERS, you will probably be pleased to hear Dr. Kennedy's first sermon tape, You'll get a kick out of what he say's about "our friends the Adventist" | ||
| Colleentinker |
Several of us heard/saw Dr. Kennedy preach on the Sabbath a few months ago. He did make it clear that he considered Adventists to have the idea of Sabbath wrong, but he simultaneously made a case for keeping a day holy, using the commandments as his argument. He did not seem to have a clear understanding of the new covenant or of the fact that Jesus has fulfilled and superceded the law in the life of the Christ-follower. It was a sort-of "grace without abandoning the commandments" idea. It was just a tad "schizy" because he was making a case for keeping Sunday. I think most of us who have had to study the new covenant have realized that if one is going to "keep" the law, he or she must keep the seventh day. I'm convinced that the new covenant is something many Christians haven't thought about deeply because they never believed, as did so many of us, that the law was still in full, unabated effect for us. They always believed their salvation was by Jesus alone. The book of Hebrews certainly makes these issues unbelievably clear! Praising Jesus for being our new covenant, Colleen | ||
| Sabra |
Dr. Bacchiochi has sent me his lastest tome - an open letter to Dr. Kennedy. It is QUITE long and he is going to post an answer if there is one. Even offered to go to FL to meet him (on the conference's $?). I couldn't find what Dr. Kennedy had to say about the Adventists or anything about it on his site. I guess if he wants to observe a day to the Lord...Rom. 14. I don't really know what his position is on "keeping" Sunday. | ||
| Dennis (Dennis) |
Recently, I had a dialogue (via several e-mail messages) with Rev. David Rice, Dr. Kennedy's assistant. I pointed out the flaws and vulnerabilities of SEMI-SABBATARIANISM(terminology that he had never heard about before). Furthermore, I described the distinctiveness of the new covenant of Jesus Christ. He wholeheartedly agreed with my concept of covenant by declaring it "excellent." He also sent me three Sabbath documents, written by Dr. D. James Kennedy, as e-mail attachments. I was flattered that he thought that I might be a seminary professor (smile). At least, I got covenant theology across to Rev. Rice. Actually, the three Sabbath documents, by Dr. Kennedy, were quite good--especially the historical aspects. Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Sherry2 (Sherry2) |
Sunday at our church (it's Baptist) preached about the Sabbath as well. Unfortunately, the pastor made a seriously weak case for why the New Testament doesn't carry on the Sabbath commandment, and then talked about the principle of rest, and how it is good to take a day, though we are not required to, and ofcourse the Lord's Day being the best day for that. Then he quoted from John Calvin. I was so disgusted I wanted to just walk out. Is there no churches out there that get the New Covenant? I just cringed having Jon there too. Fortunately my little girl wanted to go out and Jon took her and missed the Lord's Day, keeping a day of rest stuff. To someone in the church who was never in Adventism, this sermon probably seems very reasonable, avoiding legalism, and just opening it up as a possibility, but after studying the New Covenant, it seems ludicrous. Anyhow. Hey, congrats Professor Fisher.  Keep spreading the Good News of the New Covenant!! Any message, Sabra, from a return letter? | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Pretty much the same as Dennis, David Rice wrote me,explained that we apparently agreed totally on the position of the Sabbath in the New Covenant and sent me the 3 attachments as well. Bacchiochi sent me the latest newsletter and he is so hopeful that Kennedy will see it his way, he has called several times and spoken to his secretary etc....Kennedy hasn't responded personally...David Rice did mention that they had, as I had written, received several things from Bacchiochi. If you get a chance to read the Bacchiochi newsletter, it is quite "out there", mostly a waste of time, so don't bother! I sort of felt that Kennedy himself was a little confused on the issue, sort of the grace plus a little works. Sherry, I go to the Baptist church and they are all so different. Our pastor does talk about the Lord's day but says that the Holy Spirit only should determine what the believer does or doesn't do. Our church is so big that they have added a 3rd Sunday School at 8 am. and the pastor said jokingly that if we could get some pioneers to come that early it would give the other classes more room and we could make it to the restaurant before the Methodists. I thought that was pretty funny considering what we've all been through! Sabra | ||
| Sherry2 (Sherry2) |
That is funny!!! I love it. Great humor. Well our senior pastor moved to a University back last July, and this pastor is not as "seasoned". I know our senior pastor would have preached it the same way yours did, Sabra. Seems that so many do not get the New Covenant. Anyhow, blessings to all! | ||
| Dennis (Dennis) |
Dear FAF friends, Just a few lines to say that I am presenting a two-part series of lectures (one hour each for our Life Track class at the First Evangelical Free Church here in Lincoln, Nebraska). I was asked to lecture on Adventism for both class periods. Last Sunday, I gave the first lecture, and I will conclude, with the second part, this coming Sunday. I brought an empty Kellogg's Corn Flakes box and a Little Debbie Oatmeal Creme box as a visual aid, in my attempt to relate how we all have been impacted by Adventism--many times without knowing it. I am also showing clips of the video titled "SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTISM--The Spirit behind the Church." Hopefully, most of you have viewed this excellent video production, that I purchased from Pastor Mark Martin in Phoenix, Arizona. I will have a Q and A segment as well. Don't worry, I am telling the truth about SDA "truth." Many have never realized how cultic the doctrines and standards of Adventism really are. My two lectures are part of the "Contenders of the Faith" series (Catholicism was the first segment). Furthermore, I am kept most busy with my online ministry, Christian Resource Network, largely geared toward Seventh-day Adventists. As you well know, it is no easy task to impact a group of people that know everything. I also communicate with some Worldwide Church of God members. Many of these dear people have also suffered from spiritual abuse. Sometimes it is hard to hold back tears when ministering to present and former legalists. Sylvia and I never cease to thank God for calling us out of Adventism. We are also grateful that we both have the same commitment to Jesus Christ, the True Sabbath Rest. I realize this doesn't always happen that families are fully united in the Christian faith. We have never been happier in our entire lives. God is so patient and wonderful! So far, two of our three children, no longer claim Adventism. Our youngest daughter, and her husband, now attend church with us every Sunday. Regretfully, we educated our children largely in Adventist schools. Truly, God will redeem our past. Evangelism begins at home! Parenting really never ends. May we allow God to use us for His glory! In awe of Calvary, Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Sherry, Most people don't really see Sunday as an issue at all, they just know that they are under grace and I guess if they are asked, it just seems reasonable that they worship on the day Jesus was ressurected. Unless it's an Adventist, who's gonna ask? They haven't had to THINK about it as much as us if at all. We've had to go through unlearning our past, studying, praying, trusting God and still maybe doubting that maybe we're wrong before actually GETTING IT! It's so complicated to us (or was) but to them, what's the difference? Dennis, I think that is great!! I would love to hear you, too bad I'm all the way in Tennessee! If you tape the meetings maybe I can buy them from you. I haven't seen the video either or even heard of it! Interesting that they asked you to speak on Adventism. I think educating people to it is great, most around here have never heard of it or don't know what it really is and I guess, good for them! God bless in your meetings! Sabra | ||
| Sherry2 (Sherry2) |
What's that website, Dennis? I'm always amazed at the grace in other people's life as well as my own. But especially how it changes others. Your story, Dennis, and constant testimony is always an encouragement to me. Same with so many of you all. It is an encouragement. Well, Sabra, yes and no...many seem to be moving towards sabbatizing more and more on Sunday too it seems...the need to get back to the "fathers" like John Calvin. It seems the rest of Christiandom battles between trusting in the law or in Christ just as much. As SDA's ofcourse, there is a lot more trash that is simply trash and has to go that's for sure. But I don't know, it seems like formers who've studied the New Covenant have a better grasp of how deep and how wide, and wonderful God's workings are and how important the New Covenant really is to our whole understanding of Scripture. And how Jesus is the center of it all. Most people who worship on Sunday and have a grace base still do not see how Jesus is the center of Sabbath...they simply see it as an old custom done away with. And that really misses the point of why He fulfilled it, not simply deleted it. Does that make sense? | ||
| Lori (Lori) |
Yes, it makes sense. I was a little disillusioned right after I left Adventism. I thought I was joining the masses in growing in Grace--apart from the Law. It was very disturbing to find that the people you thought you were joining didn't understand the Old and New Covenant any more than you had as an Adventist. The only difference being they weren't hung up on Saturday, diet, jewelry, theaters,etc.... There are very few Sunday worshippers (including ministers) who have a grasp on what the New Covenant really means. Like any other member of any other denomination they only know what they know because that's what they grew up with. The majority have not sought the truth any more than the bulk of Adventist have. We are living in a nation that consists of many believers in Jesus Christ that don't have a clue what the Christian way of life REALLY is. (And don't realize that they have accepted a poor substitute) And if they get a glimmer of the real Christian lifestyle--they ignore it because the familiar is more comfortable. The worst part is: so few churches have ministers that teach the true Grace based Christian lifestyle. The ministers don't even know. And, a minister of a church can't lead a congregation where he himself has not been. If you are in a congregation where you have more understanding of Grace than your minister then that church has absolutely nothing to offer you. You will either move on and find a more studied pastor or you will remain and stagnant. Incidentally, thanks so much for all the comments many of you posted concerning the diet and jewelry issue on another thread.--Lori | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Yeah Sherry and Lori, it does make sense, if we are talking about people who have simply continued in tradition and don't actually have a relationship with God. Thankfully, and with God's intervention I'm sure, I've really come in contact with some very enlightened people. The first person I asked about Sabbath vs Sunday told me that we are to set apart everyday the same and to strive to worship God everyday and grow in our walk with Him. Another close friend, who also keeps my kids has more faith than a lot of people, whatever comes her way, she just trusts that God will handle it, that is the true rest of the burdened, the peace that puts our minds at rest. I think that is the purpose of the New Covenant, to restore that peace that was originally intended. The christians I've met who seem to have the closest walk with God really seem to have that peace, whether or not they understand the Jewish Sabbath in it's entirity. I haven't come into contact with anyone personally sabbitizing, but I have seen some TV preachers with a confused interpretation of the 10 commandments. I'm not sure how they can keep the 4th and agree with Romans 14. Thankfully, I didn't get into that type of congregation. The difference in traditional religious conviction vs personal conviction is going to be the key I think, whether or not we really know Him will determine where our understanding lies. Sabra | ||
| Lori (Lori) |
One of the biggest problems Adventist have when a family member or a friend leaves the Sabbath is when they begin to worship on Sunday. What a victory it was when my parents confronted me several months ago about 'the day of worship'....reprimanding me for exchanging days....condemning me to receive the mark of the beast because I was observing the supposed Catholic mandated Sunday worship. Their accusations came to an abrupt end when I continued to state (with Scripture)"there is no sacred day". My father continued to press his argument any way and my mother ended up shouting at him--"It's no use talking to her about Saturday and Sunday worship because she doesn't believe in the sacredness of either day." The fact that my rest is in Jesus Christ left them with no argument against me. To have continued the argument against me would have been to accuse me of putting Christ above the Sabbath--that was a "doctrine" that left no room for them to contest. It all comes down to one simple point--our salvation glorifies Jesus Christ; it does not glorify us. All the glory belongs to Christ. Above all else his name should be lifted up. He is even more important than the Jewish Sabbath!!! --Lori | ||
| Sherry2 (Sherry2) |
There's an argument they don't want to have...Jesus is higher then the Sabbath. Well that's cool, Lori. I pray someday they get it. That must be hard. I think you got something there, Sabra. If they sabbatize, they don't seem to have the peace or understanding of the awesomeness of the New Covenant as those who don't sabbatize. Do you feel like you're in a spiritual battle all the time though? Like there's the temptation to fall back on logic of sabbath-keeping, but yet you know you've studied and cannot go back to that logic. I don't know...I feel like I'm in a real tug-of-war going on. Logic vs. feeling, and a guilt that comes down that I have to rebuke all the time.... | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Wow, Lori--that was a victory! Sherry, I understand your feeling of being in a spiritual battle. I struggled for a long time with that guilt/logic/fear/Bible tug-of-war about the Sabbath. A couple of things helped me finally get past it--besides time! Always, of course, I was praying that I would know the truth and not be deceived. I remember when I finally decided I had to act on what my head believed and deliberately refuse to "keep" the Sabbath in any way. I had to treat it like I used to treat Sunday. That act linked my actions with my head and also my faith. The second thing that helpedóand this was a big help!ówas when our family knelt together and asked God to replace the spirit of Adventism in our hearts with the Holy Spirit. We decided that since we believed Satan had a claim on the church, we had to renounce the subsequent claim he had on us. It was very simple and straightforward. We thanked God for calling us out of Adventism and for choosing us for himself and saving us. We just asked Him to take the place in our hearts where Adventism used to be. After that prayer, it was amazing how all emotional ties to the church and feelings of doubt and guilt simply disappeared. Richard and I both experienced that same release. I am so grateful to Jesus for his grace and his salvation! Colleen |
