| Author | Message | ||
| Lydell |
Brian, Doug's advise is sound. What is your goal in staying? Is it just to help the kids have a good time? Or is it to help them get to know that they serve a loving God who has provided completely for their salvation? Your answer is the thing you have to keep in mind from this point forward however long you stay. I'd encourage you to remember that you are working with youth. And youth hate hypocrasy. If you stay and continue to work with the youth, spouting the SDA line when you don't believe it, then when you leave those kids are going to be shaken. And they will be pushed toward accepting the party line that they have heard all their lives: Christians "out there" are not to be trusted. Can you stay at your job and not have to talk about SDA beliefs? Brian, what you have got to get firmly in your mind is this truth: your days in the SDA church are numbered. If the pastor and several others know where you stand, you are not going to be around for long, eventually you will be shown the door. They are undoubtedly watching you very closely. And you are there working with youth now only as a matter of convenience for them because they don't know of anyone else to put in your position at the moment. Working with youth is tough. Not many at all are willing to do it. I think I can safely say that everyone here would agree with the above observation. That being the case, what have you got to lose by being straight with the kids? Can you manage to have more direct input with the handful of kids who you think are most likely open and hungry for truth? I think Nate could tell you that he felt some freedom once he realized that it was inevitable that he was on his way out the door. Take every opportunity to show those kids -from the word- that the believers salvation is assured. Show them, from the Bible, that there is absolutely nothing a believer can do to make themselves more perfect than what Christ has already accomplished for them. At every meeting open the opportunity for the kids to make a decision for Christ. Brian, look at the situation our country is in right now. We are at war. It's still so hard to grasp, isn't it?! Don't let the kids get off on the SDA tangent of fear and trembling that the "end times" have begun. These kids NEED an anchor. And the anchor that is going to see them thru is not EGW! So plant those seeds man! Teach them that, as believers, we serve a Lord who will NEVER leave the side of His children. Teach them about the Father of the prodigal son (a running to you, hugging, kissing Father, not the SDA version who is storing up their sins to dump back on them when they mess up!) You want them looking to God, not the youth leader. Can you get them introduced to real worship? Can you introduce them to some solid worship music (Vineyard and Hillsong are good)? Can you take them to some Christian concerts? Music is an incredibly powerful tool with youth! Plant the seeds of the things these kids can turn to when you are gone. 'Cause Brian, you WILL be gone! | ||
| Sherry2 |
Brian, Doug and Lydell both got some good advice there. When I left the church, even though I didn't work with them, Jon and I were the respected couple by the youth who liked us and thought we were one of the "coolest" parents there. So for me, I was just bold, and told the youth who we were friends with that I was leaving the church, and about the awesome grace of God I had discovered, and the stand of Adventism that I couldn't live with any longer. I don't know what the outcome is for them, but I know seeds were planted and God will take care of the rest. Pray carefully about what you will tell them about your new understanding of Jesus and the Gospel, and you will not turn them off to christianity, but turn them unto it! God bless! | ||
| Brianglass |
Thanks Doug, Lydell, and Sherri. One of the reasons I was considering having my membership removed is because I suspect that the pastor will eventually move to disfellowship me. He recently had two individuals censured for stuff I don't need to talk about on this forum. Of course I'm not sure if he will move to disfellowship me, or will simply bide his time and work toward not having me reelected at next year's nominating committee. It's hard to tell. However, what do you folks think would be a better way for this all to come out? For me to request my membership be dropped, or for me to wait to be disfellowshiped? If the pastor moves to disfellowship me I think that will turn a lot of people against him and will give me an opportunity to voice my beliefs, yet if I don't move first I could come across as looking somewhat disingenuous for not having publicized my disagreements so that everyone could hear them (most church members are not web savvy and haven't viewed my website). Or even for simply maintaining an SDA membership when I am obviously not an SDA. | ||
| In_his_service |
I suppose the question of the day is; What does your conscience tell you to do. What does the Spirit tell you to do. Can you, in faith, continue to be a S.D.A.? Or are you remaining a member for a reason other than faith? Leaving can be very hard, and feel very lonely. There will never be an easy way or a painless way. Those, in the church who are honest and Spirit led Will come to the light. You're staying or leaving will not be the deciding issue. Follow the Spirit, not reason. God give you courage and peace. No one can answer these questions for you or any one else pondering the same decision. They could not answer for those of us who have left and we can't answer the question for you who remain. Prayer and the Word hold your only answers. God Bless <>< Thomas | ||
| Lydell |
Brian, I think for us it came down to realizing that we could never take one of our friends to church because we knew they wouldn't hear truth, and we didn't want our sons to grow up exposed to the false teachings of the church. We too stuck around for awhile...years actually... thinking that maybe we could have some impact on a few individuals at the church. You have to realize that you are not going to win out. Those in power want to keep their power. They aren't interested in truth you have to share. And the denomination, and congregations, are both structured to silence dissent. That's not being pessimistic, it's just being real. The timing of leaving is different for each individual. Only the Spirit can direct you when the time is right for you. Sorry Brian, but we really can't give you direction on how it is best to proceed. Only you and the Lord know what the situation is in your particular congregation. But we CAN and ARE praying for you to be able to clearly hear His direction! However, I do believe everyone here will tell you to make the most of whatever opportunity you get to clearly lay out why you are leaving. For some it was preaching a sermon on "why". Many others have written a letter to cover "why" and sent it to all, or just to those who they thought might be open for seed planting. Those who go quietly still regret not having spoken out. The rumors will be flying pretty thick. So get your shot in to tell the story straight of what you believe. | ||
| Trippllb |
The only advise I have on this is not to run ahead of God. Ask for wisdom and clear guidance on the right time to make your move. Then leave the timing up to him. Be open to hear his voice, but don't drag your feet once you hear it. However, be sure you don't act so quickly that you run ahead of him. If you leave this in his capable hands, you can't go wrong. Let him figure out the how and when, you just follow along. | ||
| Sherry2 |
I mentioned this on one thread, but want to mention it again, and see if there is more response under Southeast Michigan. I would like to see about forming a get-together with us formers who are in Michigan. I'm in Grand Rapids. Some are in Kalamazoo that I know. One by Cedar Lake area, and some over by Detroit. If you're interested, please let me know. It would be simply a time of fellowship and eating together. That's about all I could organize at this time. Any takers? Any ideas? Thank you. | ||
| Nate |
Sherry2, My wife and I are on the list for a church up in the Flint area. We know they have gotten the list to a final three names. Who knows, maybe we might be southeast michiganders. We love the church. It is a Church of God (Anderson) and has a wonderful open spirit. It is by definition non-denominational. The Anderson association of churches is just that, a loose association, not a denomination. Who knows. We are praying that God will lead. God Bless, In Christ, Greg | ||
| Bob |
Nate/Greg: We have continued to pray for you and your family. We thank the Lord for what your courageous stand for the Gospel and your testimony are doing for many in the SDA Church who are seeking Truth. Praise God for this indication of movement in the realm of the Spirit! Whether or not this Michigan pastorate proves to be the Lord's will for you, it is another encouragement to stay strong in faith. "His eye is on the sparrow, and I know He watches me (and you)! | ||
| Joni |
Dear Greg, I live about 45 minutes east of Flint. If you and your wife, or you, need a place to stay while looking for a place to stay or to check it out, you are welcome to stay here. We have an extra room. Just let me know. lbuhler@tir.com We continue to pray for you and the rest on this forum. God Bless You, Joni | ||
| In_his_service |
Bro. Greg; My prayers will be with you, that His will be done. If this is not to be your calling, that your calling will be made clear. All things are in His hands and He controlls all things. Thomas <>< | ||
| Sherry2 |
Very cool Greg. When I was reading though all the denominational beliefs, etc. of many, many churches last year, the Church of God (Anderson affiliation) was one that I felt I could be in as well. We'll be keeping ya in our prayers! That's so wonderful how God is working. | ||
| Colleentinker |
Greg, we continue to pray for you, too. I am so thankful for the people on this forum! Even though many of us have not met in person, we really do have fellowship among us. I praise God for everyone here! Our Thanksgiving was quite interesting. We had a few former Adventist friends here, and we also had an Adventist family. Richard has quite a history with the man, and they've had some intense discussions, especially when we left the church. We really did have a good afternoon. The discussion was animated and friendly, and it was a blessing from God! I am often in awe when I watch how God orchestrates circumstances. For example, I was teaching essay pre-writing last week, and in one of my classes the subject of friendship and truthfulness came up. I've no idea how the subject surfaced. At any rate, several of the kids declared that they expect their friends to lie to them "about small things," and they lie to their friends. I was shocked, although I probably shouldn't have been. They used as examples loaning money to friends and then saying they didn't need repayment when the friend asked if he/she really had to pay it back, and saying they had seen certain movies when asked when in fact they hadn't seen them. I ended up having a discussion about truth and friendship in all my freshman classes as a result. I really don't know exactly what they all thought, but I certainly had the impression that the subject came up for a reason. In fact, during the next week various students would say, "Friends don't lie to friends!" when related subjects would surface. Have you noticed that truth, as Jesus said, sets you free? At every level of life, as Jesus reveals truth, he also brings freedom if we accept what he shows us. I really do pray that God will continue to reveal to me what he wants me to know and to help me change in the ways I should change. I continue to pray for us all as we enter the Christmas season. BTW, have any of you found the holidays, especially the religious holidays, to be significant in new ways? Praising God for his sovereignty, Colleen | ||
| Sabra |
Colleen, I am so amazed at the significance of Christmas and how I didn't realize the awesome love and sacrifice involved in Christ coming to this earth while an Adventist. Sometimes I ask myself what I thought the purpose was for His coming! I know we said He came to save us from our sins but how did we see the AD being any different from the BC? I thank the Lord everyday for the awesome blessing of the LOVE and for opening my eyes to experience the security of His Grace. I too, am so grateful for this forum and this is what the Lord has called you to do. Don't doubt that you are following His plan. Other christians bless me but they can not fathom the darkness I come from and the light that I now have like former Adventists, and I don't have any to share with personally. God Bless! Sabra | ||
| In_his_service |
My biggest "eye opener" holiday is Easter. As a boy I was taught that this was only a pagan holiday that "sunday keepers" used as an excuse to worship on Sunday. When the real meaning of Easter (Resurection Sunday) began to sink in, I stood in awe! I felt so cheated for so many years. My relatives still can't see what I could possibly see in an Easter Egg holiday. Recently, I had a protracted conversation with my Sister in law, about my beliefs on the law. She finally ended with the statement that "Creation nd the Law were the same as salvation". I told her that to me, the meaning of salvation and indeed the greatest event in the history of humankind was not creation, but the fact that the creator of the universe would come to this earth as a man, allow us to torture and kill Him on a cross, then get up and walk out of the tomb on the most blessed of Sunday mornings. Her response was "Oh yea, that too."! Then I remembered WHY I can never follow Adventist doctrine again. Praise Him. This Christmas season, may we never loose site of how before He even created the earth, He planned for the salvation of ME with His own blood. Isn't Grace wonderful? Thomas <>< | ||
| Lynnw |
Around our church, we prefer to use the term "Resurrection Sunday" instead of Easter, a term I hope will catch on as a way of keeping the real meaning ever in focus. Even the Adventists can't argue with that. | ||
| Colleentinker |
I so understand your reactions to Christmas and Easter/Resurrection Sunday, Sabra and Doug! It dawned on me a couple of years ago that as an Adventist it was really OK to have Easter egg hunts and chocolate bunnies and baskets full of plastic grass, but going to a Sunday morning service was not allowed! The pagan symbols were OK, not the Christian ones. Wow! What an awesome discovery that Easter is as wonderful as Christmas--and in some ways more so! The Christian school where I teach actually gives us two weeks off for Easter vacation, and they deliberately call it Easter break instead of Spring break. I love it! Last year Richard said he finally understood why ham is traditional at Easter. "It's the New Covenant," he said; "what better way to underscore our freedom in Christ than to serve ham on Resurrection Day?" I praise God that he has redeemed even the holidays! Everything is different! Colleen | ||
| Jtree |
Colleen, it's just like they are a "delight"! Joshua | ||
| Brianglass |
Hello all, I guess I'm the guy who started this thread and I'm just now coming back to it. Greg, I'm glad to hear that you may be coming to SE Michigan. Flint would be a bit of a drive for us, but as Sherry2 suggested it might be fun to get together. Greg I really found your testimony to be powerful! My wife has read it and also liked it. I want to fill you all in on what has happened since I started this thread. As predicted, the pastor of the church finally came to me and asked me to write a letter requesting that my name be dropped from the books. I refused to do so. He consequently raised the issue of disfellowship at the next board meeting (I'm a board member so I was there). This board meeting was not very pleasant. While it was not very pleasant, I was at least impressed that only one person made a motion to disfellowship. There were no seconds and consequently no votes for disfellowship. They subsequently moved to have me censured. At this point I was quite aware that I would not longer feel comfortable in this church so I agreed to write a letter requesting my name be dropped from membership. Shari and I continue to attend the Crossroads Community Church (on Sunday) which is a great place to worship. We have no desire to go back to the old SDA church. We have considered the idea of attending the Toledo SDA church a couple times per month (it's about 1hr drive), but haven't really decided what we are going to do on that yet. For those interested in reading my letter to the board I have put it up on my webpage and will be sending it out to the church members and to the board on Monday. You can see it at http://www.glassbrian.com. I'm glad that I stayed there through the end. I believe I was able to reach some of the youth with the true Gospel which I would not have been able to do had I left earlier. I also believe that this method of exit will allow me to be a beneficial witness to some church members. God Bless, brian@glassbrian.com | ||
| Lydell |
Brian, your letter looks good. Obviously I can't begin to know all about your personal situation. So take this for whatever it is worth. I want to offer you something to think about relating to this idea of driving an hour to attend a church a couple times a month. Does your heavenly Father love you? Does He know where you live? And love you enough to find your family some healthy spiritual fellowship for you close by so you can be very active in a church? Would it help your wife's walk with the Lord to go and continue to be around the doctrinal error of Adventism, or would it be better for her to get settled into someplace where she can get to know Christians and be taught doctrine straight? Are there things you can do to facilitate her getting to know Christian friends locally more quickly (for a woman knowing someone they can trust to go to in a troublesome time is extremely important!)? Does the Lord love other people enough that if there is an SDA whose mind is open to the same questioning you have gone through that He will be faithful to put you together with them, close by, so you can encourage them? See, when we left our local congregation, we decided to make a 45 minute drive to another SDA congregation. Hey, surely it would be better! We soon discovered that the problem wasn't with the individual congregation, it was with the warped doctrines. Then we made the mistake of thinking that somehow we were just so special that God didn't have any other of His children around for us to fellowship with as a church body. Is that arrogant, or what! We wasted a heck of alot of time! |
