| Author | Message | ||
| Sherry2 |
Hey there. Has anyone talked about these at all? Lydell, I think you mentioned something about them. Are these unsafe books for the kids and why? Also the toddler/preschool version...I have them too. I think they're called Little Friends. What about these? I just want to say that I haven't found anything off in the Little Friends, but the artistry has given me shivers. Here's why. When I was reading my little girl the story of Noah and the Ark, in the painting was the waters with the Ark riding the waves being watched over by 3 angels. Anyone get any EGW quotes going through their head about now? I was just casually reading along, and then I saw that!! I was horrified, because I recognize the conotation - 3 angels message, and the ark that EGW compares the church to at the end of time...anyone else run into that? Ugh! Secondly I couldn't help but notice in the story of Naaman, that the blessed maid girl held her arms up in such a way in the different pages that it mimiced EGW pictures of her in vision..It was too weird. And maybe I'm off, but why do I get a feeling this stuff's been tainted too? | ||
| Colleentinker |
Sherry, thank you for bringing up Bedtime Stories and Little Friend! We got rid of all those books when we purged our library. I believe they're tainted, too. I'd never noticed the three angels and the similarities to EGW, though--but looking back on it in my mind, I think you've got something there! The Bedtime Stories can be seen as wonderful moral stories, but they teach works. You can't point your finger to them and say, "that's bad theology," but they do teach kids that your own hard work, determination, commitment, and honesty will make you successful or will earn you the respect of the adults in your life. Not that I disagree with those ideas, but even children need to be taught how to live from the point of view of being IN salvation, not trying to gain it. The point is not that Jesus will be sad and disappointed and disapproving if kids fail, but that Jesus loved those kids enough to kie for them and to give them His power to help them live the lives he wants them to live. It's a completely different focus to teach How To Live from the perspective of "Jesus is calling you and is offering you his power" than to teach "You need to learn to be responsible and to work hard and to be unselfish and to tell no lies and to be respectful because is you don't yhou'll be found out, and you'll be naughty." That trying never worked, and from an early age it drove me to distraction and despair. Praise God for his finished work that is available even to children! And if they don't "get it" right away, we still teach them to obey within a context of a completed salvation instead of an incompleted one! Colleen | ||
| Lydell |
No, Sherry, I was talking about the Bible Story series. Remember the expensive 10 book set that is advertised in all the doctor and dental offices? I can't give you specifics right off the top of my head, but I do remember coming across some doctrinal garbage in them, all strictly EGW based, of course. So it just gets my blood going when I walk into an office and see the ads for the series. How deceptive. | ||
| Violet |
Speaking of books put out by the Adventist. Last night my 11 year old daughter brought me a book I had bought her at campmeeting last year. It is called "Secrets of the Treasure Chest" by Charles Mills. I started to read down through the pages and was appauled at the jugdmental statements in this book for 11-14 year olds. A child asks about his thoughts on jewlery. His answer was: "I really think it is an awful waste of money. And I really think that those who believe that hanging something made out of gold, silver, diamonds, or whatever on their bodies makes them more beautiful or handsome haven't spent enought time reading their Bibles." Excuse me but why would anyone make a statement like that to a 14 year old child. How does he know how much time others spend in the Bible? Another question from 11 year old Ashley "Do you think I will go to heaven if I wear pants. I know it's a sin and I don't want to sin." He avoids the direct questions and gets into idolitry and obeying your parents. But I am very concerened that this child actually believes its a SIN to wear pants. What was the Review and Herald thinking when they published this judgmental book? I dare not say lest I judge them. This book is full a deceit, "Jrs believe Ellen White is a prophet". Yet on page 356 he states that "We SDA look to only one source for truth. We depend on the words of just one Person as we construct our beliefs. The Bible and Jesus Christ form the foundation of evverything we hold a truth." He continually refers to "Ellen White, our friend". I shiver at the thought I bought this book for my daughter to read. I just pray now for forginess of bringing it into my home. | ||
| Sherry2 |
Yes, Lydell. That is the series I'm talking about - the 10 or 12 series Bible Bedtime Stories that are in the doctors' offices as well. There's the Uncle Arther Bedtime stories too in hardback. These also can be found in the dr. office. And there are new ones out there as well...what are they called "greatest stories" or something like that. Anyhow. Colleen, what have you come across for children (mine being preschool age) that teaches life in Christ like you are talking of? I could stand to be emersed in it myself! :) Vi, ooooh...I bet that just made you ill. Burn it? Don't just trash it, lest some poor suspecting garbage person think he found a find and take it home!! I wish I had burned some of my stuff rather than pitching it simply. | ||
| Chyna |
Dear Vi, That *is* awful. I am learning so much about Adventism, thank you :). I love wearing pants also. Chyna | ||
| Violet |
Chyna, I love wearing pants too. I cannot imagine trying to help my husband clean out the gutters of the house or work in the wood shop with a dress on----how dangerous--. I remember when my daughter was in Adventures in 1st grade, 6 years old, I bought her a navy blue skort, shorts with the flap in the front and back. The Adventurer leader was upset at me for it not being a skirt. When all was said and done you did not once see my little girls panties, I can't say the same for the little girls in the skirts. I hate it when comon since takes a back seat to religious dress. | ||
| Chyna |
Dear Vi, Although coming from a baptist background, I do admit to enjoy wearing nice dresses to church services. When I started attending a different church in college people wore shorts, and jeans! At my previous church my pastor had personally called me to scold me because I had worn keds helping lead worship team. I like to wear pants because I hate nylons and knee high nylons and whatnot. too much of a pain, pants are much easier to wear... also, particular to this subject, I had been telling my friends that when it comes to raising your children, things become piercingly clear ... I had been willing to stay with my then b/f who was SDA thinking he didn't believe in EGW doctrines, but I absolutely was unwilling to send my children to SDA schools (and for good reason!) or raise them SDA for fear of what the SDA church/schools might teach them. from another vantage point, even though my SDA b/f did break up with me and not vice versa, is that I took a position that I refused to budge from which was diametrically opposite to his, and it basically forced him to reveal how hardcore traditionally SDA he actually was ... in Him, Chyna | ||
| Sherry2 (Sherry2) |
Well it's been a while since this subject has been talked on. Thought I'd give you a personal update. In Grand Rapids, I'm finding many doctor's office lately have been stockpiled with brand new Bible Story books, Uncle Arthur, and The Greatest Story books...all SDA ofcourse, and full of lovely coupons for more info. I've been throwing the coupons in the trash, and if I know the doctor, I've been informing them about the books. One doctor let me take the book right out of his office. The one that I read was the Creation, and now I know that, despite the beautiful pictures, there is Adventist theology teached. The creation sabbath was ofcourse talked about and espounded upon how the sabbath was throughout history and today, and well you know how it goes...totally Adventist theology. I was ticked. Couldn't believe it. It is amazing but Adventist stuff really is everywhere, just like Dennis talked about on the other post with Little Debbie, Kellog's, but not only that every doctors' office. I mean I ate those things up when I was at the laundry mat with my mother as a child, before we ever came to Christ. It certainly put a hunger for God in me. And what's wrong with that? But look at the end result of leading people to a certain denomination that holds things that are false, especially EGW. It's sad. I mean, the SDA could do so much good for the Gospel of Jesus Christ if they got rid of their false prophetess and admitted the error of some of their doctrines. These books could be revamped with the True Gospel, and then put into doctors' offices and reach many with the True Good News!!! It is such a shame. They're beautiful books....ugh! Anyhow, thought you'd like to know what I've been up too anyhow. | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
That's so funny Sherry, I've been in the process of throwing them and all of the other SDA books my mother sends, out as I find them...under the beds, in the toy box etc. I couldn't believe either how much SDA theology was in them! It started one night when I thought I would read them to my kids before bed, I got vol 1 out and started with the creation and BOOM! Like the first page, Adam and Eve kept the sabbath. Ok, kids, lets see what other books we have. Ha! Educating the Dr's offices is a great idea, maybe we could make up our own tracts (ha) | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Sherry, I totally support your discarding those cards and educating the doctors! We came to the same realization; those Bible Stories are full of SDA theology. I have had continuing realizations that the way I learned certain Bible stories was straight out of Uncle Arthur. They seem lovely and innocuous, but they're not. I like the way you described their effect: they create a hunger for God, but they don't offer the gospel. Instead, they lure one to their church and their doctrines to fill that hunger. They remind me of something I heard this week about the Mormon visitor's center in Salt Lake City; the Center, I was told, is lovely (it is; I've seen it!) with its panels of paintings of creation and the Bible stories. (Those paintings in the Salt Lake City visitor's center, by the way, were painted by Harry Anderson, the SDA artist who illustrated Uncle Arthur's Bible Stories.) The effect of having visited the center on the people reporting this news was that they came away with a sense that even though Mormonism is not really a "true" church, the Mormons were lovely people and did have a lovely presentation. That's what the Bible Stories do to people, also. I'm just SO thankful that there really is objective truth, and we really can trust the Bible! Colleen | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Well, I don't throw the cards in the trash. I figure, then whoever puts them there gets warm fuzzies over the thought that "so many people are taking the cards!" So, instead, I write inside the cards, "the stories in these books are taken from the writings of a false prophetess and not the Bible." Or, "warning, these books are produced by the Seventh Day Adventist church and are not based on the Bible." I've been telling doctors about them as well. Unfortunately, I don't think anyone has believed me thus far. I have an appointment with a doctor next week who I know is a Christian. I plan to speak to him about them again if the book is still there. Come to think of it, this is something we really all should warn the members of our churches about, ya know? | ||
| Grok (Grok) |
Great idea Lydell! I am going to follow your example the next time I see them in the doctors office! Thank goodness I don't have to visit very often! Grok | ||
| Sherry2 (Sherry2) |
I do think that is important for us to, as we do for each other, speak the desires of what one can become in Christ. Speaking words of blessings to those we come in contact with who are SDA, speaking words of blessings as far as what we know God could do if the SDA church repented of their false teachings and preached the Pure Word of the Gospel. Isn't this what we would want if we were still there? For someone not to just bury us with cutting comments about our cultishness, and our perverse prophetess, but to speak that truth in love, coupled with what Christ guarantees in a believer's life, and the awesome potential for what God could do through a repentant church? I mean, look at Paul. He was no saint - he killed God's people. Yet look at the grace of our Lord Jesus in his life. Surely God can do the same in our friends/enemies the SDA's.... I know He can and I want to pray that for them. | ||
| Jtree (Jtree) |
I have an question. How many of you "read Ellen" only to "know thy enemy"? I know many here flee those reading's because you "know thy enemy" already! | ||
| Sherry2 (Sherry2) |
What do you mean, Joshua? Do you mean we read Ellen to understand why "Sunday-keepers" were an "enemy", or we read it to show why we believe it's false doctrine? | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
I think he means read EW to know how the enemy deceives and manipulates. I don't read anything from her, anymore than I would read Harry Potter. | ||
| Lucias (Lucias) |
Remember the story of Samson ? I'm sure that this is not unique to the "Bible Stories" nor Adventism but something I always "knew" growing up was how evil it was for Samson to go off and marry that Philisitine woman. He sinned and he paid the price. Well funny thing is when you go and read the scripture it doesn't say that at all. His parents opposed the idea until they realized it was God's will. Now how does something that is stated in scripture as "God's will" get to be something of the Devil ? Just a rhetorical question. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Point well taken. And Jephthah, the judge who made a vow to sacrifice whatever first met him when he returned home after a military victory, actually DID sacrifice his daughter. The Bible is clear, and the original Hebrew uses a word that can only be interpreted as sacrifice. The idea that she remained a virgin was the brainchild of a rabbi in the 19th (I believe) century. It is not implied in the Bible. That was an extra-biblical insight EGW had when she wrote about that! Colleen | ||
| Lorinc (Lorinc) |
Good points, everyone. We still have the 10-volume set in our house, but whenever I sit down to read it to my girls, I find I have to paraphrase and reword things in order to screen out the "Ellen-White-isms". And you're right, Colleen, they also definitely teach a conditional love: 'Be a good boy or girl and Daddy will love you, and you'll be with Jesus some day.' I need to try to get buy-in from my wife for pitching the whole lot into the trash. Problem is, they were a special part of her upbringing (not this physical set, but the series), so there're some "warm fuzzies" involved. Pray for us. On a related note, has anyone seen the recently reworked Sabbath School Quarterlies for the lower divisions? My kindergartner brought one home from her uncle's church. A smaller form factor instead of the magazine style, very nice 4-color artwork. And far more Ellen White mixed in than the old ones had. I read the lessons for Genesis 1-3. The pictures even had Adam and Eve drawn clothed in white "robes of light" (as per EGW). And a whole extensive conversation between God and Adam and Eve about the Sabbath -- "the special day each week when I will meet with you" -- even though not a single verse in the Bible says such a thing. I guess the publishing houses are taking seriously the resolution from the 2000 GC session in Toronto, to "affirm and promote the Spirit of Prophecy in every level of church work." My heart breaks when I think of the innocent kids who will absorb all this, never knowing what's from the Bible and what's Ellen White's. I don't have an answer, though, other than just praying that God's Spirit will watch over these precious little ones, and guide them to the truth... - Lorin |
