Former Adventist Fellowship Forum: Ten comandments

Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 5:04 pm:

I've wondered the same thing.

I read an article (actually, I think you'll see it in the next Proclamation!) that explained that the fourth commandment was based on God's finished work/rest of creation. The idea of the seventh day Sabbath came not from holy time, in other words, but from a reminder to Israel that God was calling them to rest in his finished work like Adam and Eve enjoyed at creation.

The Sabbath rest in Hebrews 4, therefore, is not explained in terms of the fourth commandment and a holy day but in terms of entering rest. Sabbath, this article was explaining, has always been about entering God's rest, not about taking time off work or sanctifying a created thing: time. Therefore both the fourth commandment and the Sabbath rest of Hebrews 4 are linked to God's finished work which we see first at creation.

The Deuteronomy version referencing leaving Egypt would make a similar point: Israel was to enter God's rest and leave their slavery behind.

Very interesting.

Colleen

Dennis (Dennis)

Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 6:55 pm:

Please forgive me, if I previously posted the following position statement from Dr. Woodrow Kroll, Director/Speaker of the BACK TO THE BIBLE INTERNATIONAL MINISTRIES headquartered here in Lincoln, Nebraska:

SHOULD THE CHRISTIAN OBSERVE THE SABBATH?
By Woodrow Kroll

Often Christians who worship on Sunday are asked, "Why don't you observe the Sabbath as commanded in the Ten Commandments?" The answer is simple. The Sabbath began before the commandments and outlived them. Let me explain.

It was only when God finished the work of creating the heavens and earth that He rested. The Sabbath, the rest of God, implies perfect satisfaction in what He had accomplished ("it was very good"). The seventh day was fixed by God to be a time of rest and joy for Himself and all creation. Since no more work had to be done, God rested. It was not because He was weary, but because He was finished.

God blessed the Sabbath and sanctified it, setting is apart from the days of His labors. What's more, God had made man on the sixth day, so that the first day that dawned upon Adam was the Sabbath of God. Man immediately entered into the enjoyment of the Creator's rest. When God finishes His work, we benefit by entering into rest with Him.

But that rest was quickly destroyed by man's sin. THE SABBATH WAS DESTROYED. The tempter came, man rebelled against God and the rest was broken. In the ages that follow man appears to have forgotten that the Sabbath was "made for man" not man for the Sabbath. It took Jesus to straighten out man's thinking (Mark 2:27-28). He is Lord of the Sabbath, and still some thinking appears to be confused about what the Sabbath means.

The Law entered when man sinned. The Law was a moral code, a schoolteacher to bring men and women back to God. The Law was designed to point men to Christ, God the Son. Therefore, the Ten Commandments specifically ordained, "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy" (Ex. 20:8). As long as man lived apart from God, He lived under the Law. But if we remember the law of the Sabbath without remembering the purpose of the Sabbath, we only remember the code and not the Christ.

Of all the Ten Commandments, the only one not repeated in the New Testament, the only one not germane to living under grace instead of law, was the fourth commandment--remember the Sabbath day, keep it holy, do not work, rest the seventh day. There's good reason for this omission. When God finished the work of creation He rested. When God finished the work of redemption again He rested (John 19:30). Jesus finished the work (John 17:4). He put away sin; the work of redemption was complete, and it was very good. The rest that existed from Creation to the Fall was now restored. Jesus said, "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest" (Matt.11:28).

As Adam entered into God's rest after creation, we enter into His rest after redemption. Between these was the Law and labor. Keeping the Law never brought salvation, but it never brought rest either. Jesus is our Sabbath. The Christian worships the Lord on the first day of the week, the day Jesus rose from the dead, because that resurrection day was the day mankind again could rest in the joy of the Lord. The Sabbath pre-existed the Law and He lives again today in hearts unfettered by the Law.

COMMMENT: Some BACK TO THE BIBLE employees attend the same church I do. On one occasion, Dr. Kroll was our worship speaker. I was asked, several months ago, to critique their materials that they send out about Seventh-day Adventism, etc. Of the two documents they have about the Sabbath, I heartily recommended the above position paper. I am most delighted that Dr. Kroll has a biblical perspective on this topic.

Dennis J. Fischer

Freeatlast (Freeatlast)

Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 7:12 pm:

Dennis, this is quite probably the best, most concise, quick study on the subject of the Sabbath that I have ever seen. I intend to "borrow" heavily from his thoughts as I debate this with my hardcore, historical SDA family (that's not plagiarism is it, I'm not making any money!). Thank you for posting this!

Dennis (Dennis)

Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 7:41 pm:

Freeatlast,

To my knowledge, this one-page counselling paper is not copyrighted.

Melissa (Melissa)

Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 8:10 am:

When you give proper credit, it is not plagarism. I think it's a wonderful article as well.

Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 12:15 pm:

It's a great article, Dennis. Thank you.

Colleen

Violet (Violet)

Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 1:57 pm:

I have been hearing alot about the 10 commandments and putting them in public places. Why do christians make such a big deal about the 10 c's? It seems to me that they are focusing on something that is not eternal. Why don't they just put up "Love God, love your neighbour"? This would represent a higher calling and we do not have to argue about which version etc. I would love some feed back.

Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 4:13 pm:

Not much to add.....you summed it up quite well......ditto.

Chris

Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 8:07 pm:

Ditto again! I've become convinced that Christianity has become "infected" with various deviations from the pure gospel. I believe that Galatianism, the point of Paul's letter to the Galatians, is one of the most common ones. Actually, Galatianism is a heresy.

It's so tempting to teach law-keeping because then we have control over other people's behavior and "attainable" standards for ourselves. Living by the Spirit is ever so much more out-of-control. If we take our marching orders from God instead of an external law, we end up being a whole lot more accountable for our actions, behavior, and thoughts. We can't rationalize things when we answer straight to God! He calls us to submit in ways the law never can.

Praise God for being faithful to complete what he begins in us!

Colleen

Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 7:44 am:

The last couple of mornings on the way to work I've listened to Adrian Rogers' sermon series "The Battle of the Bottle". His basic premise is that no Christian should ever touch any form of alchohol, in any amount, under any circumstances. One of his very first statements was that when the Bible says "wine" it doesn't always mean "wine" and you need to know that or you'll get confused and think that Jesus drank wine or even made wine. Sound familiar? Now I'm not attempting to argue against abstinence. I think abstinence is a very valid and safe choice. What bothers me though is that when a minister teaches that no Christian should ever touch any form of alchohol, in any amount, under any circumstances, he is going beyond what scripture actually teaches. If he taught that no Christian should ever be drunk, in any degree, under any circumstances then he would have a much firmer Biblical foundation to stand on. Having this firm Biblical foundation he would not have to resort to silly arguments like, "First century Palestinian Jews were really drinking well refrigerated grape juice and not wine". Unfortunately, it's just a whole lot easier to teach your congregation, "Thou shalt not!" then to engage the concept of a life lived in Christian freedom, but guided by the sanctifying presence of the Holy Spirit. Life in the Spirit seems too scary. It seems too leave to much room for abuse. Better to teach "don't touch, don't taste". Unfortunately, this apporach is leagalism as defined by scripture.

If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, ``Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!'' (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)�in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no, value against fleshly indulgence. Col 2:20-23 (NASB)

Chris

Terryk (Terryk)

Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 11:10 am:

Preach it brother.Do you ever fell like you fit no where? I often feel that way because I feel like I have learned so much. When I go to my new Bible Believing church it is great but I still see and fell things that I feel God has shown me a new way that does not fit into any church. I am not saying do not go to church I love church. Its just I feel like an outsider looking in and thinking to myself no that is not what God means. He does not want us to follow rules set up by man or just be busy with church stuff. I do not know I think I am rambling but it has felt this way for awhile now that I just do not fit into one type of christian as the world knows. Just want to know if anyone else fells this way or have I just ost my mind since leaving the SDA cult. Terry

Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 11:48 am:

No, I don't think you've lost your mind :-) Actually, it sounds quite normal and I often feel the same way. One of the first churches I started attending when I left is just an awesome church with good strong exegetical Bible teaching from the pulpit every Sunday. But I noticed a fair amount of rigid dogma around things that I would consider to be secondary issues. For instance, to join as a member you need to subscribe to a specific escatological view. It's difficult for me to understand why believing the rapture will occur pre-trib, or post-trib, or mid-trib should be a point of seperation for Christians. It's certainly an interesting point to debate, but why devide over it or refuse fellowship over it? On the other hand, I'm currently helping with a new church plant affiliated with the Disciples of Christ. As a conservative Christian I'm able to get behind this project because our pastor identifies and conducts himself as an evangelical. However, I have to admit it bothers me to be affiliated in anyway with a larger organization which is known for its liberalism. It seems like there are two common extremes: a fundamentalism that tends towards legalsim or a liberalism that distorts the Gospel and undermines the validity of scripture. Finding a church that is truly well-balanced can be difficult and it's easy to feel lost out there......especially after leaving the only religous community most of us have ever known.

Chris

Jerry (Jerry)

Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 2:38 pm:

Are we really sure what constitutes the �Ten Commandments?�

Consider this:

Between Exodus 20:1 and Exodus 31:18
God spake one time.
The Lord said three times.
The Lord spake six times.

Add it up, yourself. That is Ten sayings or words. That is exactly the meaning of �dabar� in Ten Commandments.

At that point, we hear that God wrote on the tables of stone.

Now, does anyone really keep the Ten Sayings?

Think about it.

Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 2:46 pm:

Chris, I've been taking a course on the Kingdom of God since January. This last module was really interesting. It got into the topic of the idfferent millenial views and how they tend to affect doctrine of a church. (When I first saw that this one would cover this subject I just groaned....I really can't much stand the topic since leaving adventism...) And I'm not looking to step on anyones toes with this post! Remember I am talking about the radical extremes here. Consider it an answer directly to Christ if it helps.

One of the observations that was made was that a denomination that radically holds a postmillennial view, also tends to focus on the idea that Christians must force changes in society. If society must be totally reconstructed, then the 10 commandments are a huge deal, they MUST be enforced (actually heard one of these folks on the radio saying there should be an automatic death penalty for homosexuals and those committing adultery.)

The author's observation was that folks can end up with one or two extremes of view. They focus on the world-denying texts (those on the tribulation, those that show that the world will be destroyed....a focus on which can cause one to decide that since the world is soon to be destroyed, we might as well not bother trying to fix it.) Or they can focus on the world-tranforming texts (Those that show we have freedom in Christ, are leaven and salt, orderly government is ordained for the protection of mankind, and we are overcomers....the focus on these leads to teaching that we can make the world a perfect place.)

An extreme focus on either body of texts causes a certain degree of arrogance to set in inability to dialog with those who disagree. As with adventisms "WE are right and everyone else is wrong." But, if we try to keep these two different kinds of texts in balance, we can end up talking to each other without animosity or pride. We end up with a view that recognizes the responsibility to do what we can to effect change to wrongs in society, without assuming that the power to do so resides in us.

The things the author had to say explained a whole lot about how the different denominations don't relate to each other many times, and a good bit about the history of our country as well, which really surprised me! And that last bit was not something he was addressing in his study.

Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 4:22 pm:

Lydell, how interesting. That really makes sense; I'd never thought of eschatology and social attitudes as related that way.

Your observations bring me face to face, once again, with the fact that anytime we spend our time and energy to "convert" people to believe something other than Jesus and his finished work is of essential, central importance, no matter how significant, we are missing the mark.

I recently read a letter from a former Adventist who was trying to figure out what the Bible said about tongues, becaue this person was with a group who was trying to teach him/her to speak in tongues. Many of you already know what I believe about gifts of the Spirit--God grants any or all of them to people as he sees fit and when such gifts are going to be edifying to the body of Christ and when they'll bring glory to God.

The problem as I see it is this: any time our desire and focus is on experiencing any good thing, including the Holy Spirit, instead of on knowing Jesus, we have veered from the gospel. The job of the Holy Spirit is to witness to Jesus. If we seek anything for its effect on us, including the power of the Holy Spirit, we're looking for something for ourselves insted of wanting to knew Jesus better.

If Jesus is at the center of our attention, all these other things (including peace about eschatology) will be added to us, to paraphrase one of Jesus' promises!

Chris and Terry, I understand your feelings of not quite fitting. I do believe that is a common occurance for many of us. I often find myself realizing that I don't see eye-to-eye with Christians I truly admire--or at least, I don't always feel as certain as they do about some things, especially eschatology. What's interesting to me, though, is the fact that if these people with whom I may disagree re: certain points of doctrine really know Jesus and trust him, we have a common footing, and we can pray for each other and strengthen each other anyway.

I believe that Jesus being central is the only way that Christians can avoid factions and power plays.

Colleen

Sabra (Sabra)

Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 5:41 pm:

Amen!

Our pastor said the same thing last week and it has stuck with me all week.

He is preaching on the sanctuary or the temple, and how you have to go through the ONE door into the outer court, where you first pass the altar--the blood. (representing the cross) and you can spend all day talking about the deep things of God, you can speak in tongues, you can talk prophecy but unless the person you are talking to has come through the door (Christ) and come to the cross they will never get anything that is in the Holy of Holies.

That is why our commision in to preach from the outer court and compel them to come through the Door. Only christians get into the Holy of Holies.

Posted on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 6:59 am:

Great observations Lydell! I have had a few similar musings regarding escatology and social behaviour and outlook before. I've thought a lot about the implication of post-millenialism in particular. I think post-mill can be supported from scripture depending on interpretation, but it just seems so terribly unlikely (when compare with pre- and a-) and it seems fraught with problems as well. We live in a sinful evil world. We're told that only a few enter through the Narrow Door. So given all this, how can we ever expect to completely Christianize the world? And if we did, wouldn't it require an Old Testament-like theocracy to mandate behaviour and worship? Your balanced approach "that recognizes the responsibility to do what we can to effect change to wrongs in society, without assuming that the power to do so resides in us" makes a whole lot more sense to me.

Chris

Pheeki (Pheeki)

Posted on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 8:01 am:

I heard that sermon on how a Christian should never touch alcohol and I had to turn it off. I am really tired of people taking things that God made for good such as alcohol, sex, food, money and making them evil. Yes, they are abused but that is a human problem!

You hit the nail on the head when you quoted Colossians 2 in your above post Chris.

Paul gave really good advice!

Now about feeling like an alien in church...I do!
We attended a non-denominational church with our neighbors and boy it was active and vibrant! But it is really high pressure...to join you have to attend there basic belifs 101 class. Once you are in you are expected to take on jobs, like leading a group (they have all kinds of bible study groups and have group leaders)which isn't bad to have everybody invloved...it's just my husband and I are too busy! Plus, we have spent years "doing" for the SDA church and I am burnt out.

Truly...I don't think the Lord is leading me to attend any church. Most denom.'s teach something I don't agree with (observance of the 10 commandments, abstinence, tithing) and church attendence is not a requirement for salvation. I fellowship on line with people and try to tell everyone I meet (when the opportunity arises) about Jesus.

I still attend the SDA church for my family...my husband and kids are quite active. Listen to this! The church recently split in two over music styles (the devil sure has a foot hold on a lot of those people)my husband and his friend have really worked hard on the music, they do a lot of Michael W. Smith: Phillips, Craig and Dean, you know contemporary praise songs...they took the organ out and added the drums and a base...I love the music. Well, this really offends people and they weilded Ellen as a weapon...using her quotes about how in the end of time there would be dancing and drums and shouting in church.

So the church splits and they start another church 2 miles away (like we needed another one) and they tell all the people on their last Sabbath that they are getting back to their roots, Ellen, traditional SDAism and say that maybe in heaven we can all worship togeather...really condescending!

So we think the problems are over....wrong, some lady sends a letter to the whole church again quoting Ellen and saying how the old Kings of Isreal would turn from God's ways and be pagan and things wouldn't go well but when they would turn back to God and put to death the pagan priests and worship God as they were supposed to...they would again prosper.

Are the SDA's not the craziest people on the planet? (Well, probably not but I wonder sometimes!)

So my husband's friend had been composing his own letter (10 pages)on music and what the Bible has to say about it. But the pastor wouldn't let him send it out because now it looked like a rebuttal to her letter and he didn't want any more trouble. He did however tell him he could post it on the website for the church.

Well, it caused a backlash from a couple of people (monied people, I am sure) and they confronted the pastor and do you know what he did? He said,"I never told him he could put that on the website!" He lied, and it isn't the first time. Anyway, my husband's friend (who is a new SDA, he married into it) is very disillusioned and is ready to quit.

I asked my husband, doesn't it bother you that the pastor lied (it isn't the first time either). He siad, "now don't judge, pastors are human.' But aren't they held to a higher standard because people look to them for guidance?

He also thinks people misinterpret Ellen...she didn't mean what she said about music. Whatever!

Ok, I know we are all sinners and even though SDA teach perfectionism (we will all become "little Chirsts" before we die...those living in the end times must be perfect for translation) I know for a fact we are all still sinners, just forgiven! But it bothers me that a pastor would lie! Does it bother anyone else?

I know I am rambling today but...does anyone have any thoughts on perfectionism. I know we have the Spirit of God in us...I do believe the longer we live having it and studying the word and telling others about the Gospel, the Spirit gets stronger...but I don't believe we reach perfection on this earth! I argue and argue about this on another forum with SDA's but not one of them has been able to produce for me a sinless geriatric as an example! Where are all these perfected people?

I tell them we are perfect in the eyes of God the minute we accept Jesus. We aren't any more perfect after having the Spirit 10 years than on the day we first recieved it! Amen?

Pheeki (Pheeki)

Posted on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 8:09 am:

I have one more thing to add. If Christ lives within us and we are his temple...why do you have to get in your car on Saturday and drive to an SDA church to meet Jesus?

The truth is, he is with you on the drive over there! You don't have to go anywhere...he is with us always. 24x7.

So it makes no sense to me when the SDA say...this is the day the Lord told us to meet him in his house of worship. Actually, as I have stated before, there is no command to congregate with worshippers on Sabbath, only to keep the day holy by abstaining from work. That command (to hold a sacred assembly to sacrifice) was given in Leveticus and is part of the Law the SDA say no longer applies.

It never made sense to me that the Lord would put a ceremonial, shadow of Jesus in the middle of the part of the Law that the SDA claim is eternal. The Sabbath is clearly ceremonial! SDA say it is moral...I can't wrap my mind around how it could be moral?

And if there is no command to congregate, that makes the Sunday=Mark of the Beast scenario stupid...how can you be punished for worshipping on any day that God made? Worship is never bad...that is another example of taking something good God gave us and saying, "Do not taste, do not touch!"

Any thoughts?

Posted on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 11:01 am:

Pheeki, you are in a tough, tough situation becasue the rest of you family is still in Adventism. I was there too for awhile my wife wasn't ready to leave and we have two little girls. I was tough. I really felt the need to be with believers who had Jesus Christ alone as their faith and focus, so I started occasionally attending a AOG church (right next to our house) by myself on Sun. morning and going with the family to the SDA church on Sat. morning. It seemed to get harder as I went along. It was a great joy for me when events happened (church tensions similar to what you describe) that made my wife ready to leave. Now we're able to worship together. Are we super busy with multiple roles in in new church plant? Yup! Do we sometimes feel just a bit out of place because most of the others don't have our background? Yes. But this I can say for sure, I have also experienced fellowship with our core group in a way that I had never really experienced in Adventism before. I now understand why the Hebrews warns us against forsaking assembling together. There is something special about being actively involved and united in fellowship in the body of Christ. I believe involvement in a local, healthy, well-balanced congregation is the best way to really experience being a part of the body and I doubt if any other medium can fully replace this experience. This is where Christians really grow as they live, work, and even experience conflict with each other in the life of the Church. I truly pray that someday you will be able to fully experience this with your whole family. With God, nothing is impossible.

Posted on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 1:13 pm:

Pheeki, I echo Chris's thoughts above. I continue to pray for you and your husband, and I pray that your whole family will be able to worship together in true fellowship with other believers.

I also have experienced the reality that being busy in a healthy church is actually a blessing, because it involves real fellowship that I never experienced in Adventism, even though I was really involved. Here's what I've come to believe, Pheeki: God brings you the work he wants you to do. You do not have to take any job just because people ask you to take it. If, after really surrendering the options to God and asking for his direction, it seems clear that you should not take any given job, don't do it. When God does bring the work he wants you to do, he will also supply the strength and means for you to do it without resentment.

I have been astonished at watching the body at work. I know Paul talks about it in 1 Corinthians and even Romans, but it was just a metaphor to me until I experienced the reality. The difference between truly born-again people working together for a common cause--the glory of Jesus Christ--and the projects we used to do in Adventism is as different as night and day. I really believe that our spiritual growth is limited if we do not share our lives and energy with other believers who hold us accountable, mentor us, and support us with prayer. One thing which I've found amazing is the reality of the cross-generational friendships and support that exist in a healthy church. It's really Titus 2 at work. I NEVER experienced this phenomenon in Adventism. I've come to believe it's only possible in an environment where people are truly committed to Jesus and are willing to let the Holy Spirit bring into their lives the experiences and friendships that are part of God's sovereign care of us.

God knows the plans he has for you and your family, Pheeki--plans to give you hope and a future! (Jeremiah 29:11)

Colleen

Violet (Violet)

Posted on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 6:24 pm:

We were also burned out on being involved when we left the SDA orginization. So we took our sweet time finding another church, over a year. When we did we laid low and did not get involved much past the church service for six months or so, then we started going to Sunday School. We have now joined a care group, but can not always attend as we have an elderly parent we have to help tend to. What I am trying to say is, take your time and don't let anyone at the church push you into service. Sometimes you need time to heal and have others minister to you. When you start to heal then you can become more involved. I don't think people who have never been involved in an orginization like the SDAs fully understand the trauma you go through when you leave everything behind to follow Jesus.

God has a church family out there for you. You will find the right fit. It may be a painful journey, but well worth the effort.

Vi

Posted on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 6:29 pm:

Colleen, I think another one of the reasons that body life is such a blessing is because you have all the people there with their various spiritual giftings. You need all the giftings to have a whole body.

Part of body life too is the sandpapering we get from being actively involved with other believers side by side. If someone is annoying you you can't just turn off the computer and walk away. You have to work it out. Sometimes it is their rough edges that get rubbed off, and sometimes it is your own. Part of body life is challenging our little problem areas.

Pheeki, it does sound like you are in a tough spot. And I'm praying for you too. Sounds like stuff is happening there to irritate your hubby at the church, and being disquieted is a good thing.

I wish to goodness I could remember where it is that I saw this on the Interenet! There was a site that had a list of like "10 reasons why" the new worship music is bad. It was stuff like,the songs are too hard to learn, there are too many songs, the rhythm of the music is strange, etc. Thing is, it was written in like the late 1700's!

Posted on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 6:51 pm:

Hey Pheeki, I found it!
www.fnicom/worship/199708/msg00013.html

Melissa (Melissa)

Posted on Monday, November 03, 2003 - 7:47 am:

Colleen, you talked about the cross-generational contact, this is really the first time I have been really in a strong support group of women who are 10-20 years older than I am. They have been incredibly helpful as I have gone through this time and are a great sounding board when processing B. It makes me realize how much I have missed by only seeking those of my own age and in my own marital status. They have already walked many of the paths I'm on. How encouraging that is. It's funny listening to them wonder where their Titus 2 support is... (some of them are probably in nursing homes.... :-)...)

Pheeki, I know our church has membership classes and expects its members to find a place to "plug in", but certainly not outside where God is leading you. I think it was Violet above who talked about a time to heal. That's great advice. See how a non-SDA body functions and God will lead you in his time. But for healthy Christians, refusing to help with the work of running a church makes me question their priorities. I am a single parent with kids from 7 months to 14 years old. (My oldest has special needs) The only "job" I have at church is working in the tape ministry one Sunday morning a month and burning CDs for the missionaries we support, which I can do at home at my convenience. Everyone wants and enjoys the programs, but few want to actually help. It just sounds like you have some other things, however, you need to work on right now. Though it is expected our members will find an area of service, I think that it is Biblical to exercise our spiritual gift in support of the body of Christ, not just to take care of ourselves. Afterall, none of us embody all the gifts. We need each other. I can't say I've been where you are, but I have been in non-SDA churches my whole life. I used to sing in the choir, an ensemble and teach 2-year old Sunday School. I was also active in my singles groups, Bible Studies and various productions our church put on. But as my circumstances have changed, I had to change my activity level. That's life. I felt a lot of guilt about not being able to sing in the choir any more since I felt music was MY gift, till I heard someone else with a special needs child say that if the only ministry God gave them was to serve the needs of their special needs child, that was an honorable ministry too. It seemed so inward-focused to just take care of my own, but for a while, I had to rest in the FACT that is what God had called me to. Only God can guide you to his specific will for your life.

I echo the sentiments above. It sounds like you are in a really uncomfortable position. I pray you can find God's direction for you and peace for your journey.

Pheeki (Pheeki)

Posted on Monday, November 03, 2003 - 8:00 am:

Thanks, everyone. Lydell, I couldn't access that site! Can you check it out and see why?

Posted on Monday, November 03, 2003 - 12:31 pm:

Lydell, I totally agree re: one reason for church life being so rich is the spiritual gifting of the members. And that "sandpapering" part is true, too!

Melissa, what an important insight about God calling you to the ministry of caring for your child. I've often reflected that perhaps God's biggest and most demanding call on my life was becoming "Mom" to my two step sons (who are like my own children) when they were two and six years old. I could never have foreseen what that role would entail, and I could not have seen in advance how much God would ask from me. I praise him for this call, and I thank him for his faithfulness to me and to them through the past nearly fifteen years. And I thank him that our children are ultimately His to love and nurture and heal mature as they grow up, and that he equips us to love them for Him when we have nothing of our own left to give.

God is so good.

Colleen