Former Adventist Fellowship Forum: Israel/Middle east

Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 4:41 pm:

This subject has not come up and I wondered what some of your thoughts on the current news are.

My mother forwarded me something really supporting the Palestinian side and it worried me. It was all about how Israel is attacking the civilians and basically an Israel-bashing article. I don't really know what the SDA's are thinking this conflict is, I don't remember ever hearing much about Israel when I was a SDA. I warned her as non-confrontationally (is that a word?) as possible, I tried to explain to her that Israel IS God's chosen people---sigh, I get no response EVER! Some response would be better than NO response!

Anyways, we were studying Luke 15 last night in the study group and I never realized the parralel in the prodigal son and Israel. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems the prodigal son was a Jew, left, became destitue and returned to his father-(God) with the robe representing Jesus and was resented by the brother-Jew who didn't have Jesus and didn't know his father's-(God's) heart even though he had been with Him from the beginning.

Colleen, I'm sure you have a wonderful insight into this. I always read it as a sinner returning to Christ but I saw so much more last night.

Sabra

Gatororeo7 (Gatororeo7)

Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 4:48 pm:

Sabra,
I never thought of the prodigal son parable that way, but it certainly makes sense!

Posted on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 11:19 pm:

I never thought about the prodigal son that way, either. That's a great way to see it. I don't feel like I can say for sure what I think about what's happening in the Middle East. Here's what I think, but this is by no means a definitive answer.

First, both Israel and Palestine are behaving godlessly. Both are killing innocent lives; both are fighting for self-centered reasons. Right now Israel is not a God-centered state; it's political and secular, and the Israelies are not trusting God to win their battlesóor even to determine themóas God continually instructed Israel to do in the Old Testament.

Second, Paul talks rather extensively about the Jew/Gentile issue in Romans 11. He makes a couple of points that are interesting in light of current events. First, he establishes that some of the "branches" have been broken off the root so that a "wild olive shoot", the Gentiles, may be grafted in. He makes it clear that they did not "fall beyond recovery," but that their "transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles."

He even says that "if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?"

Paul is establishing that God had Israel "experience a hardening in part until the full number of Gentiles has come in." He warns the Gentile Christians not to be arrogant because of their status as children of God while the Israelites have been rejected. He points out that if a wild olive shoot could be grafted in, how much more readily will the natural branches be brought back onto the root?

After making the point that God has partially and temporarily hardened the Jews against the gospel so the whole world can be saved and discover their identity as adopted members of God's family, he ends with this really insightful comment: "Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all."

In other words, the Jews have been rejected for a time so that they have to be brought back to God through an awareness of their own sin and need of a Savior, not by their inherited right to belong. All men and women, Jews and Gentiles alike, will be reconciled to God the same way. There will not be some who were born into the kingdom and others who converted into it. All will be converted into it; all will bow before Jesus as their savior from sin; all will come to Christ from a position of brokenness and disconnection from God. All will receive the new birthónot a natural birthóas their membership in God's family.

The Bible is clear that God's call and election of Israel is irrevocable. They are still God's people. But the current state of Israel is not God's kingdom. It is a secular kingdom. Exactly what will happen and how, I do not know. Whether or not God will somehow use this secular kingdom as the basis for transforming it into his kingdom, I don't know. I do know that Romans assures that salvation will come to the Jews, and they will receive mercy from God.

The Adventist view of Israel is basically that Adventists are spiritual Israel, and they discount the importance of Israel or of the Jews. They believe that the Jews lost their status with God when they rejected Jesus, and now God has spiritual Israel to take their place. Jews, they believe, are just like Gentiles in God's eyes as far as being God's people is concerned. Adventists are the new inheritors of God's special choice and blessing. Events in the Middle East are just proof that there will be wars and rumors of wars.

So, Sabra, I don't actually know what it means and what will happen. But I do think it's significant that these battles are intensifying.

Praise God for his inclusive, sovereign plan!
Colleen

Posted on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 11:21 pm:

OOps, I made a typo above; God did not experience a hardening in part. Israel did, by God's design.

Colleen

Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 12:38 am:

Sabra, that is a new thing I hadn't thought of regarding the prodigal son. Very interesting.

My belief from the biblical perspective is that Israel belongs to God in accordance with God's promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. I'm sure there are as many opinions to that as there are people. But either way, there are many innocent lives being killed and it is a very sad thing to witness.

Paul tells us that all Israel will be saved. I'm sure there are many people in that region who are not Jews and don't believe in Jesus Christ being the Messiah. Just as there are many Jews who do believe in Jesus being the Messiah. Only the believers will be saved in Scripture. God is true to His Word.

Yet, at the same time, for some reason the more this worsens, the more excited I'm getting about going HOME!

As soon as I read "prodigal", the first thing that came to my mind was the fact that there were 3 prodigals in that parable. The Father, the loyal son and the son that wanted his inheritance early and ended up in a pigs pen.

The definition of 'prodigal' in websters:

1: Recklessly wastefulness.
2: EXTRAVAGANT
2a: Profuse in giving
2b: Exceedingly abundant.
3: Profuse: lavish <prodigal praise>-n. One inclined to luxury or extravagance.

As for myself, I see these traits in all 3 characters.

Just a thought.

Back to the terribleness (if that's a word) of the happenings in Israel area. Let's all pray together for the suffering people, who tonight, have no bed to sleep in, or food in their bellies and absolutely no security.

Blessings to all,
your sister in Christ Jesus,
DtB

And we shall meet HIM face to face!

Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 4:27 pm:

Denise, good point about "prodigal"! Thanks for pointing that out!

Colleen

Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 7:59 pm:

What do you think about the rest of the story? Luke 15:23-32? The father orders the fatted calf killed and a big feast/party (possibly the marriage supper?) and the older brother, who is upset and doesn't understand the big to-do, wants no part of it, even though his father pleads with him to enter (verse 28) he-the older brother- says, "Lo, these many years I have been serving you; I never transgressed your COMMANDMENTS at any time; and yet you never gave me a young goat that I might make merry with my friends"

Could it be that the younger son, by receiving the robe, which represents Jesus is raptured while the stubborn, jealous older brother who doesn't have Jesus misses out even though he is told in the end, Son you are always with me and all that I have is yours?

If the traditional view of the rapture is correct this could be the marriage supper and Israel is not included.

Let me know if you think I'm nuts

Sabra

Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 11:34 pm:

Hello Sabra,

I, for one, do not think you a nut.

As to the the rapture position, whether it be pre trib, mid trib, post trib or pre wrath, I'll let others reply as I've not taken a hardline stance on any one of these positions.

Of course I would like to believe that the rapture (harpazo) is an event that is pre trib and for the Church, but I'm still in between two positions.

Israel is in a terrible state and it is my belief that whatever happens in Israel, will affect us.

But that is simply my belief.

Blessings always and know that I'll be reading this thread for some insights from others along with you.

your sister in Jesus Christ
DtB

Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 3:49 pm:

Denise, that is not just your belief, Genesis tells us that those that bless Israel will be blessed and those that curse her will be cursed. I think that is why we are so blessed in this nation. Now, whether or not that will continue is unclear to me as I can't find much in the scriptures about the US. I'm not sure about the rapture either, I don't think a lot of people are, really. I go to a Baptist church and I thought all of them believed in a pre-trib rapture but when I asked the asst. pastor some questions he told me he was a pan-melliniumist--that he felt it would all pan out in the end.
Maybe we aren't supposed to know for sure, I'm sure it will all pan out, but I'd like a little more definition!!
Thanks for your thoughts,
Sabra

Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 11:41 pm:

Sabra, I think you're right. We'll know what's going to happen when it happens! Some things are so clear that all true Christians agree and understand them, such as Christ's substitutionary death, the resurrection, the new birth, etc. Other things are just not as clear in the scriptures. I suspect the sketchy prophesies we have are for the purpose of reassuring us that we're in the fulfillment of God's plan when they actually happen. We won't be caught completely off guard. We'll be able to say, "Ah-ha, so THIS is what that prophecy meant!"

(Still, it does seem that it would be nice to know more, doesn't it?!)
Colleen

Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 1:25 am:

Well, I don't know if it's okay to post this article or not but it's interesting and something to think about. So Colleen or Richard, if this is not okay to post this please remove it and then I will know. If you enjoy this article, is it okay to post the website from whence this came?

(I removed the article because it is protected by copyright law. Thanks for the post, Denise. -Richard)

Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 8:35 pm:

That's very interesting, Denise, I think there are a lot more implications hidden in scripture than I ever realized. I really like to watch Perry Stone, have you heard of him? He goes into a lot of the Jewish traditional meanings of things. I don't know that I agree with everything he says but it is very interesting.

Thanks for sharing!
Sabra

Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 10:56 pm:

Richard,

I understand.

Blessings in our Lord always,
your sister, DtB

Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 11:13 pm:

Sabra,

I've never heard of Perry Stone. But if he goes into alot of the Jewish traditional meanings, I can bet that is very interesting.

Personally, I enjoy reading much of what alot of Rabbi's have to say on traditional interpretations of prophecy.

And you are so very right in that there's a whole lot of hidden treasures in Scripture! It's putting it all together that takes time. Kind of like a giant jig-saw puzzle with millions of pieces! Still, time goes by quickly and before you know it, you have studied the Scriptures for more years than you would have ever have planned. Fascinating letter from our Lord!

We have a wonderful God, in that there is no doubt! Bless Him!

And may He Bless you with much Grace always

DtB

Posted on Friday, April 19, 2002 - 8:53 am:

check it out on www.perrystone.org

Sabra

Dennis (Dennis)

Posted on Friday, April 19, 2002 - 8:11 pm:

Being that God's people had various inaccurate interpretations about Christ's first coming, Christians today are undoubtedly misinterpreting certain events surrounding His second coming as well.

Even though we would like to know more eschatological details, God has given us sufficient salvific information to successfully complete our earthly journey.

In awe of His grace,

Dennis J. Fischer

Sherry2 (Sherry2)

Posted on Saturday, April 20, 2002 - 5:54 am:

Tis true, Dennis. I've got to agree on that. But it sure will be good when He gets here and the earth made new, and no more sorrow or death! I am so thankful for the hope we have in Him and His awesome promises. May we serve faithfully to the end, whatever the end of this world looks like for us.

Speakeasy (Speakeasy)

Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 6:39 am:

Any body that could help me would be great. What do you think about people that say. When you become christians you really become Jewish, Therfore you are under the same Laws that the Jews are and if you would study and Learn Hebrew you would understand that our bible has been corrupted. I have been told by some people these things along with many other Law type things. It seems like with Adventist,Jewish people and other sects that salvation always gets back to the law. Also how would you answere people. When they say Just because you follow the Law or some parts of the Law that does not mean you are trying to earn your way to Salavtion. Like I said in my first message ever on Former Adventist. I am Battling the Law from the Jewish angle. Any help will be greatly studyed. Any web sites that could help please send them my way. I need some help that will help me answere questions that just because we are christians we do not become Jews and Follow there customs.
Speakeasy

Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 7:34 am:

Speakeasy, The Bible is clear that we do not become Jews when we become Christians. In fact, Acts 15 records the historic Council of Jerusalem where Peter, James, and the other apostles discussed what would be required of Gentiles who accepted Christ. They specifically said, under the Holy Spirit's guidance, that they would not put the Gentile Christians under a bondage to the law that even they, the apostles themselves, had not been able to keep.

Several believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees (Acts 15:5) said they had to circumcise the Gentiles when they were converted. Circumcision, as you know, was the entrance sign into Judaism. The assembled apostles and other believers subsequently agreed that Jewish ceremonies and laws did not apply to the Gentiles. If they accepted Christ, they did not need the Jewish old covenant to have a relationship with God.

Verses 19-21 in Acts 15 records what they decided to require of new Gentile converts: abstinence from food offered to idols; abstinence from sexual immorality; abstinence from eating strangled animals and from eating blood. That's it. Absolutely no Jewish rituals, ceremonies, or laws are necessary to become a Christian. Christians do not take on the old covenant. They are in direct relationship with the Father through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ and by the indwelling Holy Spirit.

The Old Testament is extremely important because it testifies to the coming Messiah. Jesus's coming and sacrifice and resurrection have much deeper meaning to us because we have the millennia of prophecies and ceremonies which pointed to him. Without the law and the prophets, there would have been no clear way to identify Jesus except by his own testimony. The law and the prophets, however, confirmed Jesus's claims for himself. Even for us today the Old Testament is a witness to the identity of Jesus and the plan of the Father to save mankind.

Ephesians and 1 Corinthians make it clear that the conversion of the Gentiles and their becoming children of God was the "mystery" hidden through the ages. The Church was a reality hidden to the prophets. It was hinted at in the prophecies, but its reality was not made clear until after Pentecost when Peter preached to a large gathering of Gentiles at the home of Cornelius. (see Acts 10) At the end of his preaching, the Holy Spirit came upon those Gentiles just as He had come upon the 3,000 Jews at Pentecost, and Peter realized that those Gentiles, completely un-Judaized, were accepted by God and granted the new birth, so he arranged to have them baptized.

The reality of Gentiles becoming children of God was a mystery to the Old Testament Jews, and it remains a mystery to unconverted Jews today. If one dismisses the New Testament, one cannot accept Christianity.

Speakeasy, I suggest that you take a break from dialoging with the Jews who are attempting to put you in bondage to the law. Spend a month reading nothing but the New Testament. Literally read the book of Galatians every day for 30 days, asking God to reveal the truth to you. Be willing to surrender to him your attraction and ties to the law. Let him show you the truth, whatever that is and whatever it might cost you, through the pages of the New Testament.

As far as other helpful adjunct reading is concerned, the online book New Covenant Christians by Clay Peck at www.graceplace.org is a wonderful and helpful publication.

Mostly, though, Speakeasy, you must be willing to surrender everything you think you know and surrender your confusion to Jesus. Ask him to clear your mind and to protect you from deception. Ask him to reveal himself to you and to guide your reading in the Bible. Ask him to help you understand what the Bible really says, not just what you think it says.

I will continue to pray for you.
Colleen

Lydell (Lydell)

Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 7:53 am:

As for the bit about having to learn Hebrew, Speakeasy, let's begin by doing some thinking about the character of God.

We know that God is a Father who deeply loves His children. We know that God is a Father who wants His children to understand His truth. We can expect that, as with any loving Father, He will have found a way to communicate His word to His children with no confusion.

We know He doesn't just love those who are extremely well educated or wealthy. And He doesn't just love those who have the resources available to attend a school and be taught one particular language.

See, when someone tells you that you must "learn Hebrew to see the corruption in the Bible", what they are actually telling you is that they view God as being someone who can only adequately communicate in one language (now let's see, how many languages are there on earth?). Somehow he was able to create a world and continues to sustain all the life on that world. For some reason He allowed all these different languages to develop, yet forgot to find a way to communicate with the people in their language. And that somehow He is just too weak to be able to assure that His word has been correctly translated and passed down to His children today. That's a pretty warped view of God, isn't it?

Speakeasy, you really are better equipped to answer these folks than what you seem to think. When we have accepted Christ as Savior, He places His Spirit inside us. We literally are the temple of God. I believe His Spirit causes a stirring inside us when we hear someone spout some untruth against our Father's character. There is that immediate twinge that says, "hey, my dad isn't like that!"

Where we get in trouble is when we brush that immediate instinctive thought aside and instead allow someone to begin telling us that our Father is a cruel tyrant standing by with a measuring rod. Their view is one of a god who has a very conditional type of love that says, "IF you do this and this, THEN I will love you."

Speakeasy, don't get caught up in the feeling that you need to be able to argue theology with them. There is nothing at all wrong with a response of, "I know that my loving heavenly Father has provided a way to communicate with me simply without my having to learn a foreign language." Or even, "it seems that you have a very small view of God if you think He can only communicate in one language."

Jerry (Jerry)

Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 9:29 am:

It is exactly so, Colleen and Lydell. I think of it this way. There are two ways for God to look at people with different looks, cultures, or languages: Inclusively or Exclusively.

Which one do you think is like God? I strongly suggest that God is inclusive. God wants everyone to know his rest.

If exclusiveness is not from God, there is only one other source. Can you guess who that would be? I believe you must focus on the true method used by God to communicate with us. That way is by the Holy Spirit.

That is why one must pray for guidance when reading the Word. Whether words or phrases changed through the ages is not the issue. Any language can distort the messages from God. Any language is limited in its ability to convey the true meaning of Godís Grace. That is why we cannot focus on words. That is why we must focus on God through Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

Everything else can be deception.

Of course, we learn about God through the reading of the Word, but that is only the start.

As for these people who are saying these things to you. No doubt, they are sincere. However, they have a very limited view of the Creator, as has been said here.

Pull away from them by saying something like this: ìI am certain that God is not that limited. You have not understood the Gospel message and have unintentionally perverted the message of grace to all people. You need to study the Bible without this mindset. If you do, you will hear a different message. We do not need to discuss this further. Thank you for your interest.î

Thomas1 (Thomas1)

Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 10:42 am:

Speakeasy, Take a real close reading of Pauls advice to Titus. (3:1-11). Pay particular attention to vereses 9-11. It doesn't matter what version you use but I prefer one that speaks plainly. I would quote it, but if you read it from the Word, it will be so much more powerful than if you read my words.

Paul is so clear here as well as many other places in his writings. The law is such an insignificant part of the converted (born again) Christian's walk that we aren't even supposed to argue about it with those who still believe it is their salvation.

I also like Gal. 5:4-6. It always interest's me that Paul was a Jew's Jew. A law keeper who described himself as fautless. Yet he could make statements that most Adventists would be shocked to read, if indeed they were ever to read them. "Christ is the end of the Law to everyone who believes", "You who seek to be justified by keeping the Law have rejected Christ, you have fallen from grace." "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. ....if you become circumsized, Christ will profit you nothing." These are just a few.

I really love this guy!

Thank God for His Son. Never allow anyone, "Jew or Greek" to take your eyes off of Him and His cross!

In His Grace

<><
Thomas

Lori (Lori)

Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 7:12 am:

"Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law, rather through the law we become conscious of sin".(We become conscious of our unrighteousness)

"But,.."(this 'but' is important! It implies something in contrast to righteousness sought through the law) "But,now" ('now' implies that it is already available--it is not a future attainment) "But, now a righteousness from God, apart from the law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. (Just as the Old Testament testified of Christ--the Law and the Prophets testified of God's Grace).

"This righteousness from God (righteousness apart from the Law) comes from faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe."

"There is no difference (in those who are believers) for all (believers) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." (All believers in their own efforts are unrighteous.) "and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus". (All believers are made righteous through the same means. It is a "freely" given gift--it is not something that must be earned after the initial salvation. All believers are justified FREELY BY THIS GRACE.)

God doesn't play 'favorite sons'. His grace is freely bestowed upon ALL who believe in the Son. The object of this grace is not based upon the merit of the receiver but rather on the merit of the redeemer--"redemption that came through Jesus Christ". Romans 3:20-22

"Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes." Romans 10:4

"if you" 1. confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and 2. "believe in your heart (mind) that God raised him from the dead, YOU WILL BE SAVED. For it is with you heart (mind) that you believe and are justsified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved." Romans 10:9,10

Conspicuously absent from this list of requirements for salvation is THE LAW.

"Anyone who trusts in Him will never be put to shame. For there is NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW AND GENTILE-THE SAME LORD IS LORD OF ALL AND RICHLY BLESSES (justifies freely by his grace--remember Rom 3:24) ALL WHO CALL ON HIM FOR EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD (Jesus Christ) will be saved". Romans 10:11

"For I AM NOT ASHAMED OF THE GOSPEL FOR IT IS THE POWER OF GOD"...."THE GOSPEL....IS THE POWER OF GOD FOR THE SALVATION OF EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES!"
Romans 1:16

For in the Gospel a righteousness FROM GOD is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last" (Righteousness begins with an act of faith in Jesus Christ, is sustained through an act of faith in Jesus Christ and is completed through and act of faith in Jesus Christ) Romans 1:17

At what point do any of these passages imply/conclude that salvation must be maintain through observance of the law?

"The law has authority over a man only as long as he lives" Romans 7:1 "You died to the law throught the body of Christ" vs. 4 "by dying to waht once bound us (the law) we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code." vs.6

"There is a remnant chosen by GRACE" Romans 11:5

"There is a remnant CHOSEN BY GRACE"!

"There is a REMNANT CHOSEN BY GRACE"!!

"THERE IS A REMNANT CHOSEN BY GRACE"!!!

The remnant of God are not selected because they adhere to the 10 commandments and keep the Sabbath holy. The remnant are chosen by GRACE because 1. THEY CONFESS WITH THEIR MOUTH JESUS IS LORD 2. THEY BELIEVE WITH THEIR MINDS THAT GOD RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD.

"I am not ashamed of the Gospel for it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes"!!

Derrell (Derrell)

Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 7:34 pm:

Hi Guys,

It is so easy to go from one set of misconceptions and jump right into another when we take our eyes off of the power inherent in the pure simplicity of the Gospel of Salvation, and start looking for a new set of rules. Coming from our background of "proof-texting" and over-interpretation, it is very easy to fall back into old habits, and a frame of mind which needs impossibly high walls to scale in order to reach a very shaky "salvation".

Because of the simplicity of John 3:16, and because of the awesome power of Revelation 12:10-12, I KNOW that I am saved. When I lived under the law, my relationship with God was based on my fear, and His righteous anger. I lived with despair believing that I was predestined to be lost because I could never live up the law, I didn't know which laws were applicable, and I wasn't sure what the true interpretation of Scripture was. Now my relationship with God is based on a mutual love and my knowledge that his grace is sufficient for me.

This freedom and happiness is indescribable.

Derrell

Speakeasy (Speakeasy)

Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 7:12 am:

You guys have been a great help in the short period of time I have been with you.I have read Galations and other passages that pertain to the Law. And when you guys give me your input like you have on what it means to you. That is what has helped me the most. You can't get this kind of stuff from your pastor or other people that have not had problems in the observence of the Law. Keep it coming! I have so many other questions that I have. I have tried to post them but they get taken off. I guess the questions are attacking or to the point of what the Jewish people teach and believe or at least the ones that I have talked to. yes I have stepped away from studying with them and have asked God to fill the void of there loss. In the Last 2 years I have lost over 10 people that I know to Judaism,Adventist and Mormanism and I have not replaced there friendship. And of course all of them say we christians are lost and following PAGAN rules and things. please still keep me in your prayers that someone in Tulsa will come my way and help me answere some questions that I have.
Speakeasy

Lori (Lori)

Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 11:35 am:

Speakeasy...I just wanted to say I can identify with your desire for "someone" physically near you to help you find the answers. I remember that feeling of wanting "a real-live-person" to give me the answer.

God never sent me one!!! But HE provided the answers. And it worked out very well because had he provided the "physical body" for me to communicate with I would not have found the level of trust that I now have in Him.

More often than not, it took months for me to discover the answer to an initial question. This was frustrating. But I learned that God couldn't "give" me the answer to that particular question without providing me with other truths first. And, ALWAYS when I finally found "the answer" there was no question in my mind that it had been delivered to me by God himself.

We are SO HUMAN!!! I still fall into the same trap of thinking, "I want a flesh and blood person". But I realize now if I received what I actually petitioned (a person to answer all my questions) I would have missed gaining my ultimate desire (a real relationship with the God of the Universe)--A relationship with Jesus Christ based upon Time and Trust.

God wants us to have our desires. And the great thing is; even when we don't know what they are; he does!!!

You already have a "someone in Tulsa" to answer your questions---but it's not a flesh and blood somebody--it's the Holy Spirit!!

The Holy Spirit will utilize many things to aid you in your search. This website, nature, children, automobiles, house work, comments from other people, Bible study groups, neighbors, strangers. I've even been listening to what people refer to as "secular music" and suddenly had a Spiritual analogy come to mind that clearly defined a Biblical concept.

God is all around us in every aspect of what we do! He's the best "someone" that could ever answer your questions.

It was only after the bulk of my questions had been answered that I found a former Adventist in my area that I could share things with. Now we have moved and I know longer have that. But I still have the great relationship with Him!!

I think God "jealousy" keeps us for himself at certain times. Shielding us from the very things we think we need because they will distract us from what we could have WITH HIM. How extremely close you are to achieving ultimate rapport with God because you are SEARCHING so earnestly for truth!

God wants ALL of your attention--he wants ALL of your trust--and those things take time. In the process He wants your eyes focused on Him alone. You are his bride! He does not want to share your attention with anyone else.

"In all circumstances give thanks for this is the will of God".

Praise God that He alone can answer all your questions and that he doesn't need to have a "flesh and blood" body to provide them.

Lori