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Freeatlast (Freeatlast)
Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 10:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If a sinner does not face anihilation, why then is there value in eternal life? Doesn't the sinner already possess eternal life?
Doug222 (Doug222)
Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 1:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Free at Lat,
I am not taking a position on whether sinners face anihilation or not, but the question I would have is whether quantity of life is really our goal. I would like to think that the emphasis is not on "eternal," but on the word "life. That abundant life begins at the moment we accept God's gift of salvation. Another word for it is restored "fellowship" with God. It just gets sweeter at the second coming when we put off this earthly tent. The sinner (under either scenario) does not have that benefit.

In His Grace
Freeatlast (Freeatlast)
Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 1:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the input. I read Colleen's statements about being "dead in sins", and that helped me reconcile somewhat.
Violet (Violet)
Posted on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 11:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The whole death eternal life has me in a quandry right now. The Holy spirt has peaked my interest in the story Jesus told of the rich man and Lazareth and the Witch of endor and Saul.

It seems if you put the two stories together you find a place Haedes that everyone goes to after death, but there are two compartments, hell fire and the bossom of Abraham (or paradise). People can be called from these places (by God's will) as Samual was and they can see each other(as the rich man and Lazareth), but cannot change places. Also the thief on the cross and Jesus saying that today he would be with Him in paradise, but Jesus did not accend to heaven that day. Makes me think there has to be a "holding tank" until Jesus comes.

Does anyone have any further insigh? I still struggle with the dead know not anything. But the story Jesus told does not seem to support soul sleep.
Vi
Freeatlast (Freeatlast)
Posted on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 1:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm looking more into the "sleep" analogy. In dreams, DURING SLEEP, we have emotions, love, pain, sense, all with no awareness of "anything under the sun". Perhaps this "holding tank", if indeed it exists (and I have not taken a position yet), is something akin to our spirit remaining alive while our body "sleeps", and we have no "knowledge of anything under the sun." Food for thought...
Sabra (Sabra)
Posted on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 2:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Violet,

My understanding is that Jesus WAS with him in heaven that day. His body didn't ascend that day but His spirit didn't cease to exist. As humans we have a hard time understanding physical and spiritual existence. This is definately still a gray area for me, so I'm not much help.
Violet (Violet)
Posted on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 2:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If we go to heaven when we die, even if in spirit form only, can the people in hell see us? I am taking this from the story of Lazareth and the Rich man. I don't know and am very open to discussion on this.
Vi
Sabra (Sabra)
Posted on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 3:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know but I hope we can't see them!
Violet (Violet)
Posted on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 4:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is there anyone who knows a text that supports the apostles creed that Jesus descended into hell and on the 3rd day rose again?
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 5:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Violet, I think the main text for the passage in the creed that says Jesus descended into hell is found in 1 Peter 2:18-20. It's not really specific, and people have disagreements about exactly what it means.

Aside from specific Bible texts, however, another argument in favor of Jesus descending into hell is that he experienced the death of sin in our place. That means he experienced the second deathówhich is the death of separation in hell.

I also know that many evangelical theologians say that Jesus did NOT go to hell. He was without sin and did not go to the place reserved for the devil and his angels. Instead, he died the death of separation, but his spirit went to the Father. (Remember what he said to the thief? "Today you will be with me in Paradise?")

The bottom line is, I don't really know where Jesus' spirit was throughout the time of his death. Did he go to heaven and to hell? Was the visit to hell during a different time? We're just not told clearly what happened.

We DO know that Jesus conquered the power of deathóand that means the second deathóso we don't have to experience it. And Jesus did say he would be in Paradise. I have to deal with this issue as I've come to deal with the prophecies of RevelationóI'm not sure, but I'm actually enjoying living with the mystery.

I know that my Redeemer lives, and he has given me and all of us who love him eternal lifeóand there is absolutely no question about that!

Praise him!

Colleen

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