| Author | Message | ||
| Trippllb (Trippllb) |
I've heard quite a few different opinions expressed regarding the law and it's role in the new covenant context during the course of my study. This topic is relatively near and dear to my heart, and I'm sure anyone struggling with freeing themselves from the SDA denomination has looked at this topic at length. You folks are such a great source of information for me, so I'm interested in getting your thoughts. The three main views I have heard are as follows: 1. The law was broken into moral and ceremonial portions and the ceremonial aspects of the law were abolished at the cross but the moral aspects remain in effect even today. 2. Both moral and ceremonial aspects were combined in one whole law and the whole law was abolished at the cross but 9 of the 10 commandments were restated in the new testament so those are in effect for today. 3. The whole law was abolished at the cross and the law is now written in our hearts by the holy spirit. In otherwords, love your neighbor, love your God, and trust the Holy Spirit to guide you in all aspects of your life. | ||
| Windmotion (Windmotion) |
My view of the Old Testament law (and I will try to keep this short) is that it was something given just to Israelites and is not applicable to Christians at all except for historical context or when the laws were used as symbols of upcoming events. The New Testament law isn't a revision of the old law, it's a whole new framework. Think of when the fathers of our country first drafted the Articles of Confederation. For a first try, it wasn't bad, but they realized the U.S.A. needed something better. But they didn't just strike out a few paragraphs, add a few amendments and call it good. They completely rewrote it, gave it a different name and called it the U.S. Constitution. When Jesus came, He followed the law of the heart and not the law of Israel. Colleen pointed this out with her post saying Jesus didn't follow the ceremonial cleansing laws or the Sabbath laws before they had been nailed to the cross. The New Testament is filled with verses like "If you love one another you have fulfilled the law," (see Romans 13:8-10.) That's a lot easier to understand than the multitudes of commands in Exodus and Leviticus, but much more difficult to follow. For a current example, our driving laws could be summed up into one law "drive courteously." If every driver followed that law, accidents would be few. The law would be impossible to enforce, if people were inclined to break it, so we have other laws, such as drive 55 mph here, don't drive drunk, etc. (Can you imagine a policeman asking you 'was that courteous what you just did?') In our legal system, the more laws that are passed, the more loopholes are created by bored lawyers. The Old Testament religious leaders were experts at creating loopholes as well. In Jesus' parable of the Good Samaritan, the priest and the Levite both felt they were staying within the law by not helping the injured man on the road. But the Good Samaritan illustrated the law of love by helping the man. There are no loopholes in the law of love. To pick one of your options, I would pick number 3, but you probably already knew I would say that  As all this pertains to the Sabbath, which it always does. If you feel keeping the Sabbath makes you love God more (not makes God love you more) then you should keep it. But that doesn't mean someone else's keeping the Sabbath makes them love God more. This is explained in Romans 14. I hope this isn't too long, yet basically answers your question. Hannah | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
The New Covenant: 1. Love God 2. Love your neighbor It's just that simple. Those 2 will take care of all but the 4th, Hebrews 4 explains that one to me. Romans 14 says if you want to esteem one day above another, more power to ya, and if I choose to esteem everyday alike, good for me too. The point is that you walk in love 24/7. Blessings! | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
I agree with all of you above. Tripplbb, I've heard all three of those explanations, also. And I would also pick #3 if I had to pick one. The reason I wouldn't pick #2 is that it really doesn't adequately deal with the Sabbath. the marvelous thing that is becoming increasingly clear to me about the Sabbath is that it IS in the new covenantóit's just the person of Jesus instead of temporal time! The new covenant is a new thing on the earthóat least new since sin. We are literally reconnected to God with spirits made alive by the Holy Spirit because Jesus destroyed the power of sin and restored us to the Father. The OT Sabbath was just a physical symbol of this restoration we would have in Jesus. Since Jesus hadn't died and paid the price for sin, true Sabbath rest was not possible in its completion until the new covenant. Yes, people could find faith in God and trust him, but the cross had not yet changed everything from old to new. So, Jesus gave Israel a living parable of sorts to help them catch a glimpse of what he would do for them. One seventh of their time would be spent completely resting from their laborsóa physical symbol of a spiritual reality which was to come. So, Sabbath IS in the New Covenant; it's the reality instead of the shadow! True Sabbath is about atonement and rest from our own works; the OT Sabbath was a physical symbol of time representing the spiritual truth. It was the best way to explain what was coming before people experienced the reality. I suspect the physical Sabbath was to the real Sabbath what our descriptions of heaven are to ourselves. We can only approximate heaven in our understanding because we haven't experienced the full spiritual reality. All we have is physical comparisons. As Sabra said above, The point is that you walk in love 24/7! Praise God for Jesus the Sabbath! Colleen | ||
| Trippllb (Trippllb) |
Wow! Great answers all. Thanks so much for your input. I believe the third option to be truth myself, but I was interested to get the feeling of the folks here on the board. Funny how God works sometimes. When I first started studying I thought I was going to reinforce the Sabbath, but God led me to the New Covenant and the law first and the Sabbath just naturally fell into it's right place. It's like he knew he needed to teach me my ABC's before he could teach me to write. | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
I don't know that I would pick any of the three, tho the last comes closest to the mark. I think we are shown in the New Testament that the Law's purpose was to be a tutor. The tutor was to show us that we were hopelessly in need of a Savior. Once we have received that Savior into our hearts, we no longer need laws written on stone or paper(the tutor), because we have the real and better Teacher to live inside us to mold us into people who will naturally walk in love 24/7. | ||
| Trippllb (Trippllb) |
Lydell, I believe that the 10 Commandments were a yard stick given to help us recognize our sin and the need for Christ in our life. I'm not good at chapter and verse, so bear with me here. Somewhere the bible says that sin existed without the law. I think that the 10 Commandments were a yard stick given to a pagan Isreal to have something to measure themselves by. They had just come out of Egypt, come out of idolatry, come out of paganism, and come to Christ. I think that the law was given to a people who didn't know much better as something to point out the sin in their lives, their inability to conquor it of their own effort, and point them to Christ. I believe that it was nailed to the cross at the death of Christ and that he law is now written on our hearts and we walk at the prompting of the Holy Spirit. You said that 'Once we have received that Savior into our hearts, we no longer need laws written on stone or paper(the tutor), because we have the real and better Teacher to live inside us to mold us into people who will naturally walk in love 24/7". So do you feel that the law is still there for non-believers, but not for believers? Paul also says something to the effect that if you choose to follow a part of the law you are bound by the whole law. I'm just interested in getting my brain around the different views out here so I can keep studying. Also, to everyone, if the law was indeed nailed to the cross, what of the mention of the other 'big' 9 in the New Testament. Where do they fit into the big picture? | ||
| Doug222 (Doug222) |
I cam across a great analogy recently that helps to clarify the role of the law, Sabbath, and Sanctuary in our lives. Before my kids were born, the doctors did an ultrasound on their mom and printed out a copy of the picture for us. I remember studying that picture for hours on end. The funny thing is that I couldn't make heads nor tails out of it. The nurses pointed out the baby's heart, leg, ribs, etc., but I still had difficulty seeing it. In fact, the way they explained it, it seemed like my children may have possibly come out deformed. But I cherished those pictures because they were all I had. They were my first glimpse of who my children would be. In the fullness of time, my children arrived in all of their glory. They were everything the ultrasound picture promised and so much more. Now once my children arrived, I would have been foolish to take the ultrasound picture and put it in a frame on my desk. Or better yet, how about if I got one of those nice double frames and put the picture of the child on one side and a picture of the ultrasound on the other? I think not! Well it is the same way with the law, the Sanctuary, and the Sabbath. They were given to Israel in order to help a people who had never even heard of a Messiah get a glimpse of who He was. However they paled in comparison to the real thing. Unfortunately even after the Messiah came, many of the Jews continued to focus on the "ultrasound" or the symbols. Sadly, many today do the same in clinging to religious ceremony, ritual, rules, and laws. That's why Jesus said "you dilligently search the Scripture for in them you think you find eternal life. They testify of me, yet you will not come to me to receive life." This is also what Jesus meant on the sermon on the mount when he said, the law says..., but I say...." You see, Jesus is much more than the law or any of these symbols ever could have been. They helped to reveal his character and show how far we were from it, but can the law forgive, show mercy, or love? Absolutely not. Just like the ultrasound picture served a useful purpose in its time, so the law served a useful purpose prior to Jesus' incarnation. However, to continue to hold on to the law after he came is to deny the reality of the greatest gift the world has ever known. So, to answer the original question, I agree with Lydell that none of the three options are totally accurate. I too would chose number three if I had to pick one, but I really do not believe that the law was abolished at all. I believe that in the same way that the ultrasound continued to be a valid representation even after my children were born, the law continues to be a valid representation as well. The difference is that Jesus fulfilled the law and therefore the purpose of the law (not the law itself) was abolished. I no longer need it. Who needs the moon when the Son has risen? Just my $.02 worth. In His Grace Doug | ||
| Janet (Janet) |
Thanks Doug! That was a great help to me and my understanding! Would you mind if I printed your analogy for my "collection"? While I am asking, does anyone here mind if I print out things you all have written that have been helpful to me for my personal study? Just learning, Janet | ||
| Doug222 (Doug222) |
Absolutely Janet. As I said, it was not an original thought, but when I heard it, it immediately clicked with me. It is one of the best analogies I have heard on the subject. In His Grace Doug | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Trippllb, for more study, look at Romans 7. You might begin with v. 7 and run on through Chapter 8 about verse 17. Tho even at that you are stepping into the middle of what he has been teaching about the law. Sometimes it's helpful to do it that way, really. I think the law no longer has power over the believer. We've moved from the category of a slave being dictated to by the law into being a child of God, growing up, and learning how to be what He says we already are. I've said this before, so I'm sure some are tired of hearing it. As a Christian you are no longer labeled "sinner" you are now labeled "saved by grace". That doesn't mean you don't mess up and commit sin. I guess you'd say it is that your death decree as "sinner" has been nailed to the cross. Now you are the new person, "saved by grace". God still has things He wants you to do, or not do, but it is the indwelling spirit that lets you know about those things. I think of those 9 that you are referring to as being like the kindergarten version of what God has always wanted. He wants the tender heart of love in us. When that is in place, the other 9 happen. But they happen because we have spent time fellowshipping with Him. They don't happen because we are trying to be good enough to be worthy to fellowship. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Doug and Lydell, I completely agree with you above. I like the ultrasound analogy, Doug. The way I think of the "other 9" in the NT is that they describe the way a person in relationship with God will live. I don't see them as "commands" we still keep because they're repeated in the NT. They simply describe (in part) a holy life. They showed up in the 10 Commandments because they showed Israel how their lives were SUPPOSED to look. They were not rules God decided would be good for people to do; rather, they literally describe REALITY. Israel had completely lost sight of reality. The living spirits with which Adam and Eve had been created were long gone from the earth, and God was beginning to prepare people for the Redeemer who would come and restore that spiritual life to the world. But nobody would be the least bit interested in Jesus if people didn't have pointed out to them what they were missing and what God's intention was for them. We "keep" the "other 9" because they describe (in part) how a born again person lives because God restores reality and morality and the power of God to him or her. Again, "keep" really isn't the right word. We don't "keep" the laws of respiration and circulation. They are reality for humans. Similarly, the principles of holy living described in both testaments are simply the reality of life as a person grows in an eternal, living relationship with Jesus empowered by the indwelling Holy Spirit. Just as respiration and circulation cease upon physical death, so holy living does not exist in a person spiritually dead. Praise God for Life! Colleen | ||
| Freeatlast (Freeatlast) |
Lydell, I can't find a more apt and concise description of justification and sanctification than what you wrote in your third paragraph. I should tattoo that one to my forehead (backwards, of course, so I see it every morning in the mirror). Janet, as long as you don't publish this for a profit, claim "Divine inspiration, light from the Throne" prophecy over it, deny your plagiarism, and not give us any money if you publish it, go for it! (low blow, I know, but I can't believe some of the stuff that I'm digging up right now, Walter Rea was NOT a "hell-bound heretic"). | ||
| Janet (Janet) |
Freeatlast, how funny!!! I am still laughing... Thanks. |
