| Author |
Message |
Alicia (Alicia)
| | Posted on Monday, July 01, 2002 - 8:04 pm: |     |
Hi ,
You are so right. God not only sought me out, he carried me even as I was yelling at him. I am so thankful for him and for this forum. To find folks that left sda and truly love God and have studied the scriptures, and who can explain things with openmindedness, is something I thought not possible. My friends who have not been raised adventist look at me like I lost my mind when I would try to explain the beliefs I grew up with. I can see why. I too thought the Catholics were coming to kill me. My first non adventist friend was Catholic. I was 15, and she invited me to her church. I went, mostly to defy me horrified mother. I remember thinking God was going to strike me dead when I entered. I looked around the whole time thinking "are they already planning how they will kill us?" Do you ever feel sad for the little naive child we were? love Alicia |
Sherry2 (Sherry2)
| | Posted on Monday, July 01, 2002 - 10:41 pm: | |
Welcome Alicia! I like your "He carried me even as I was yelling at Him"....He's good for that, ya know! 
Well I've simply learned from hanging around this world, that all people have the potential to kill, and some religious people will irregardless of their denomination when their put through the "Fire" so to speak...and others are truly righteous in Christ....the wheat and the tares grow together no matter where we're at. I just hate it that there is so much deceipt every where you turn. I'm just learning the more I study the Word how my own heart was really tainted by humanistic standards and I didn't even realize it...just from the culture, let alone SDA culture. But there are things I praise the Lord for in SDA culture, and I guess it's good to look at those things too. An AA phrase I used to think about often and need to again..."Have an attitude of gratitude."
Glad you're here and all the other new people signing up. Praise God for you all!! I know it was the coolest thing in my journey when I stumbled on this site, and other former pastor sites and found out people had left over the same doctrinal things I had. It amazed me.
Blessings to all, and to lurkers too! |
Alicia (Alicia)
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 6:05 pm: | |
Hi Sherry,
I am so thankful for the healthful way I was raised. I had some wonderful teachers as well. I believe my health is good now, after years of not taking care of myself because my Mom fed us so well. I remember always feeling not good enough for God tho. Always ashamed, guilty, secretly thinking there was no way I would make it. It was only acouple of years ago that a pastor of a Baptist church told me about grace. I felt like I had been given a new lease on life. Everything in my life has changed, tho it's all really in my mind. I have a Clear Word Bible my Mom gave me. I love the gospels in it. It's the first time I could understand some of it, being used to KJV. I read on a site this bible is incorrect. Do you know anything about this? love to you, Alicia |
Gentle1 (Gentle1)
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 10:41 pm: | |
Alicia and Sherry2: I wish I'd learned the truth about SDAism years before I did (and I totally relate to those of you who were "terrorized" as kids by the end-time stories! One night as a young child, I heard a couple planes going over our house and got out of bed to ask my mom if this was the night they were coming to kill us SDAs! Sad, huh??), BUT, I too, am thankful for some things about growing up in that denomination. I am glad for the health emphasis that taught me the dangers of alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, etc. I am also thankful for the teaching on a healthful diet and lifestyle. When my husband had congestive heart failure due to a virus several years ago (in his 30's), and we had to make dietary changes to help him lose weight, our earlier training was very helpful. EGW's "eight natural remedies" as outlined in "Ministry of Healing" provided a starting point for us. We used to eat some meat while in the SDA church, but now for health reasons a year ago we became vegetarians (nearly vegans!) My husband has been maintaining his fairly recent weight loss of 100 pounds and is so much healthier than he's ever been before. Anyway, I "take the good and leave the bad" in my experience with SDAism! :-) |
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 11:42 pm: | |
Alicia, the Clear Word Bible is an Adventist paraphrase. It is not a translation, and it is not true to scripture. The entire Bible has been paraphrased and re-written to include SDA theology taught by Ellen White. Jack Blanco wrote the Clear Word while he was head of the theology dept. at Southern Adventist College in the mid-í90's. It was never considered an "official" Adventist Bible, but the Review and Herald Publishing Assoc. printed it as an "outside job", and it is still sold in every Adventist Book Center. Recent editions have taken the word "Bible" out of the title because, obviously, it ISN'T a Bible! It is an Adventist reworking of the Bible including all SDA doctrines worked into the text.
For example, Daniel eight in the Clear Word clearly includes the Investigative Judgment. Compare it to any other version of the Bible, and you will not find it. And so on.
Verle Streifling, an independent Biblical scholar in British Colulmbia whose work is being published by Dale Ratzlaff, did a verse-by-verse comparison of sections of the Clear Word with the Bible, referring to original Hebrew and Greek. One of the truly amazing things he showed was that the Clear Word veils the divinity of Jesus. In passages which clearly communicate Jesus' deity, Blanco has altered the phrasing just enough that a casual reader would not notice the difference, but his words emphasize Jesus' humanity and leave out the emphasis of his deity. The startling thing to me is that until the Desire of Ages was published in the 1880's, the church clearly taught that Jesus was not God but that he was the created son of God. That Aryan belief is subtly but repeatedly emphasized in the Clear Word.
In short, Alicia, you ought to get a true translation of the Bible to read. As mentioned earlier, the New International Version is an excellent study Bible and is easy to understand. If you want an easy-to-read paraphrase based on original languages and content, get a copy of The Message by Eugene Peterson. Right now the New Testament is published separately from the Old Testament, but I understand the whole Bible as one book is being released soon.
Just a word about the health message. I'm also grateful for what I've learned about healthful diet and lifestyle, but I must say that Adventists do not have the exclusive scoop on health! There are MANY non-SDA and even secular organizations which teach the same principles. (Mormons even have bans on caffeine, alcohol, and drugs.) Dean Ornish and others also have therapeutic health plans that are very similar to Weimar's.
One comment about the much-touted health studies done on Adventist life spans as compared with the rest of the public: those studies compare Adventists with the general population which includes smokers and drinkers. I heard one Loma Linda physician say a few months ago that what we're not told is that if you compare Adventists with other Christian populations who do not smoke or drink but do eat meat, the life spans are comparable. Mormons also have comparable life spans, and they have no meat restrictions.
In short, I don't see the "health message" as uniquely Adventist. The thing that makes it stand out from other health conditioning regimens is that it is a central tenet of a church. It is called the "right arm of the message". We were taught it was unique and enviable. In reality, many people live by the same principles.
The problem with it being a central tenet of the church is that it is a completely carnal focus. Its subtle (or not-so-subtle) message is "salvation by health". We have to keep our bodies and minds clean so we can understand scripture and be proper dwellings for the Holy Spirit. Those are completely unbiblical principles. The Holy Spirit lives in us when we accept Jesus regardless of our diet or exercise plan. He may guide us toward a better way to live, but our health or lifesytle does not fit us for Him.
I've found that I've had to jettison completely my Adventist biases before I could really find freedom in Christ. The good things Adventism taught are out there and very accessible through many other venues. I just had to think of them as separate from my spiritual experience. Jesus is the sole focus of that!
Colleen |
Sherry2 (Sherry2)
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 6:28 am: | |
Amen Colleen. I so hear you.
I understand that it is something we can say we're thankful for, but at the same time get rid of SDA ideas in the "health message" that made it congruent with being saved...for instance "Counsels on Diets and Foods" that tells us that those who will be translated will not touch meat at all. When Jesus our High Priest and God ate fish upon the earth...go figure. And do you love what we were taught...that they didn't have the health message back then so it was ok for them. The Son of God did not know the will of God in eating and drinking? Hello!! But I actually bought(sp?) that line.
Well I've enjoyed eating meat again. It has been a joy to eat with my relatives and not have meals restricted to SDA design. I mean, bless my relatives...for years they have worked around our eating ways...never complained...never mocked...just did their best. That says alot about their character! So this years Easter I made the traditional ham for them, and turkey ham for my husband. It was delicious, and it was a joy to serve them with no contraints about the false notion of "sin" there. I admit I've gained some weight I did not have being vegetarian, and I think when I got my freedom, I was gung ho on eating meat all the time. Now I'm working on the balance.
Now I'm not cutting anyone for being vegetarian at all. I just pray that we all walk in true grace and don't have salvation tied to it. I know for me it made me feel I was better than others. And that's just not truth.
Alicia, I'd burn the Clear Word....and buy a true translation such as the NIV or New American Standard Version. It is chucked full of twists in the Word of God. Go here :http://www.ratzlaf.com/ or here: http://www.ratzlaf.com/news.htm and download the file on the Corrupt Word. Alicia, I was shocked about all the distortions. It is interesting to see that in some of these corruptions they've interjected specific things we were taught Ellen White saw in vision, but no where in the Bible itself does it support it. It's aweful!
Well I've gotta run...I'd like to share more...I'll chat more later..... |
Gentle1 (Gentle1)
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 12:59 pm: | |
Sherry2 and Colleen: I totally agree with you about our diet being in NO WAY a salvational thing!!!!! My husband and I are not "legalistic" about our vegetarianism, and when we go to someone's home, we eat what we're served. Our motto is: "People are more important than food," and we are not going hurt anyone's feelings by refusing to eat what they have prepared! For instance, when we went to my aunt's for lunch, she served ham sandwiches, tuna sans., etc., and we ate them ALL. We are vegetarians for health reasons ONLY. Many Adventists don't eat meat for mainly "religious" reasons, but eat all kinds of junk and unhealthful foods otherwise. My husband and I eat healthfully "all the way around," because we want to be active "old people" someday. :-) I read "Vegetarian Times" which is a secular magazine that touts the health benefits of a plant-based diet. I would NEVER judge anyone in a negative way for eating meat, though. On the other hand, I hope former SDA's don't judge anyone as being still "under SDA law" for being "vegie." It's the motives and attitudes of the heart that can make something "legalistic" or not. (A few years ago, I came across the interesting biblical fact that not only did Jesus eat meat while on earth, but he ate fish AFTER HIS RESURRECTION while in His glorified body! Luke 24:36-43, 50,51. Then he was taken up to heaven!! That was enough for me to see the falseness of EGW's teaching that if we're eating meat when Christ comes, we'll have have to die before going to heaven!) Anyway, thank you both for sharing on this subject, as I like hearing other's opinions! |
Alicia (Alicia)
| | Posted on Thursday, July 04, 2002 - 11:11 am: | |
Good morning, Thank you for your info on the Clear Word. I am glad that I wasn't trying to study the "truths" of some of it. When I stopped going to church, I was angry. I tried to not think of anything I was taught. Now 15 years later I couldn't remember how my mom justified her reasons for the way we lived. I would not have known this book didn't replicate the bible. My mom and her pastor have never told me it was one man's take on the bible. Following this forum has inspired me to read the bible. For the last couple of years I have been talking with God. For a whole year before that all I could do was pray "dear God please help me to learn to love you more." I too think that my parents thought that we were the chosen ones. I think my mom thought the health messages of e.g.w. were specially given to us because we were special. She does seem to think works get you there. Her reasons were wrong but God allowed me to benefit from good nutrition. I have abused my health for years now. I was able to easily step back into more healthful ways because it was second nature. I just wish we weren't told the junk about how meat is evil. Do you remember the first time you ate a hot dog? I remember it like where I was when Princess Di died. Was sure I would go to hell. Why do those things we were taught linger so long? Quess because it's ingrained in us like second nature. love to you all, Alicia |
Violet (Violet)
| | Posted on Friday, July 05, 2002 - 7:51 am: | |
I am just now able to start buying anything with soy in it. Even when my mind knew the health benefits my stomach could not take the thought of it being associated with my salvation.
Its sad to think I actually believed that stuff. |
Gentle1 (Gentle1)
| | Posted on Friday, July 05, 2002 - 11:15 am: | |
My husband and I never consciously ate much with soy in it when we were Adventists, so thankfully it doesn't bother us now! We eat tofu, use soymilk, enjoy soynuts, etc. with no thoughts whatsoever that it has ANYTHING to do with our salvation!! It is sad, though, that we still have some lingering baggage to deal with in other areas! |
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
| | Posted on Friday, July 05, 2002 - 12:25 pm: | |
Richard still can't eat meat, and it's not because he thinks it's wrong. To him it isn't food. He always thought of meat as being as much like food as was excrement. That's pretty powerful! He touches it, carves it on Thanksgiving, and even encourages me to serve it on special occasions now. About a year-and-a-half ago he was helping a man from his Bible study move. He was absolutely starving by noon, and all they had to eat was chicken enchiladas and salad. He said he prayed for strength and ate the enchiladas. (They even tasted good, he said!) But he still doesn't voluntarily choose to eat it. No, it is no longer a salvation issue to him, but those emotional imprints are powerful! And it's OKóhe doesn't have to worry about the extra cholesterol, etc.! (Oh, yesóhe has even eaten soup that came with bacon in it. He didn't know beforehand that it would be there, but he was with someone else, and he just ate it! He could never have done that a few years ago!)
The bottom line is that God will redeem our past and release us from any bondage that stands between us and him. The powerful prohibition against meat with which Richard grew up was definitely bondage. He no longer has that bondage. Now, he just has no desire to eat it. He no longer feels that deep fear that it might be sinful or violating in some way.
I understand your reaction to soy, Violet. The spiritual and emotional overlay that always accompanied the "health message" was deceptive and truly wrong. Praise God that he both removes our antipathy for meat and also our counter-reactions to veggie food!
Truly, food is NOT to be the focus of a Christ-followers life. "The kingdom of heaven is not about eating or drinking, but of righteeousenss, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." (Romans 14:17-18) It is AMAZING how Christ's righteousness, peace, and joy improve our mental and physical health, too!
Colleen |
Violet (Violet)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 06, 2002 - 10:52 am: | |
As much as the american culture focuses on food with fellowship being able to accept any food from someone sends a powerful message of accepting them. Thank God we can openly eat at all friend's tables. |
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