| Author |
Message |
Susan_2 (Susan_2)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 9:32 pm: |     |
Just a thought or two: #1: Since it costs a pretty penny to put a kid all through SDA schools, especialy if the kid is sent off to high school boarding school and even more so if the parents pay out of pocket for the child to attend SDA college, do the SDA's whose adult children have grown up to attend a Christian non-SDA church just feel ripped off? I mean, all that money they've put out forthe kid to get totally indroctrnated into SDA'ism and then the offspring attends a real Christian church, just some thoughts on that. Aso, my kin don't even ever, and mean, ever mention Christ or the power of prayer or anything of the sort to my cousin who has turned athest. No, it's me they prostilize to because I worship with the heritics, babalon. The athiest couin, she went all the way from 1st grade through 12th grade in SDA schools. I have been told by various SDA' (including very close family members) that they would rather someone who grew up SDA, hence KNOWING THE TRUTH, if they leave the SDA church that they would go to NO CHURCH AT ALL THAN GO TO A SUNAY CHURCH! Now, isn't that about the most cultish thing you've ever heard? Have any of you others been told these things from those you most love? |
Jerry (Jerry)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 7:47 am: | |
My goodness, Susan 2, moms certainly know how to push our ěhot buttons!î
Of course, you are right about the dichotomy in dealing with ěSunday-keepingî versus atheism.
I have sometimes wondered about asking the following questions to a ěevangelical,î life long Adventist:
Suppose you had four sons raised in the SDA church and school system. Naturally, you love them dearly and did everything you could to bring them to ěthe truth.î
As each one reached twenty-one, they left the SDA church for good.
One became a public, high profile advocate of atheism.
One became a practicing Muslim.
One became a Catholic priest.
One became a Sunday Evangelist (you name the Bible based denomination.)
Which situation upsets you the least? Why?
After that one, which is the next least upsetting situation? Why? |
Terryk (Terryk)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 6:48 pm: | |
Susan2 of course we have heard all this garbage before. Some people I talk with do not even know what I am talking about when I repeat these sayings that the SDA church has told me for 27 years I do not know where they have been/ It is sad but I sit and talk about our crazy thoughts and teachings that we have heard and it all is so cultic. If you talk to your average church member who has been to all the meetings we all say the same thing in the same way like little robots. And I have felt even before I saw the light why do we always focus so much on the sabbath our friends etc when we got together it was all about the sabbath and how glad we were we had the sabbath well where was Christ in all that? It is very sad to think that so many people who really think they are following Christ are still in there. Another thought hit me while in church this week I saw all these people some in makeup earrings rings etc. and guess what they were Bible believing saved people wow I just have to sit back sometimes and praise God he showed me his real true self and not all that rubbish it all sounds crazy to me now. Thanks for letting me vent Terry |
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 6:53 pm: | |
Yes, Susan, those things you are hearing are standard Adventism. I can't speak for all Adventist parents, but I think at least many of them feel glad that they spent the $$ on Adventist education even if the offspring leaves the church. They know that they can face God having done everything in their power to keep the "kid" inside the fold. God surely won't blame them for their child's apostasy since they did everything right.
After all, another "Ellenism" is that God will greet parents at the second coming and ask, if their children are missing, "Where is they flock? Thy beautiful flock?" (I hadn't thought about that comment in years, but I realize I heard it often in my past!) Parents carry MUCH guilt if their children leave the church. Knowing that at least they financed SDA education helps assuage a tiny part of it.
I'm so thankful for Jesus and his grace!
Colleen |
Susan_2 (Susan_2)
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 8:18 pm: | |
Several years ago one of my children became the school scapegoat, for some reason the school bullies began picking on him and the other kids didn't stand up to the bullies and needless to say, my son was extremey distraught. This was in 5th grade. I took him out of school and was going to send him to a local inter-denominational schoolin my community. There are around six churches that support this school, and the school is loated on the grounds of a Baptist church. My mom actually told me this,"how can you send him to a school where you know he will be taught so many bad things"? I was appalled! I asked what bad things would he be taught at a Christian sachool? 1st I was told he'd be taught that he should keep Sunday holy. 2nd I was told he'd be taught it was o.k. to eat pork. Those two are ALWAYS the big ones in my family. Then it branched out from there, even getting into Easter, etc. It turned out that I home schooled him for the rest of that year and then in 6th grade and then sent him back to public school in jr. high and had no further problems whatever. But, those teacher, staff and kids were so nice at the Christian school.Totally a real wittness to the love of having Jesus in there hearts. I just felt such sadness in my heart that the family members of mine that I love so much would rather my child who was having a hard time, that they would rather he be taught rules, rules, rules, than unconditional Christian love and acceptance. It still seems so sad to me. |
Susan_2 (Susan_2)
| | Posted on Saturday, December 14, 2002 - 7:29 pm: | |
Hi. It's Saturday evening. Tomorrow is Sunday morning. My mom is very deep in greif over my dads death just two months ago. She is elderly and doesn't drive anymore and I love my mom so much that I cannot even find the words to say how much. Once again she needs to run errands tomorrow morning. Before she found out I like to attend the Lutheran church on Sunday mornings she was always willing to do things like her errands when it was conveinent for me. These past few months though she needs to do her errands on Sunday mornings. And, I will accomadate her because she's my mother and I love her and I'm all she has. I'm an only child so I really do need to give her that respect. But, what is a real irritant is when I hear things such as, "I was so hoping I could go to my grave knowing you will stay true to The Sabbath", and, "When the Sabbath-keepers start getting persucated are you going to join in persucating them now that you've become a Sunday-keeper"? and, "At what point in the end-time events will you realize that it's the Sabbath-keepers that are God's chosen people to go be with Him in heaven when Jesus comes? Do you think you'll yet change your mind before it's too late"? Well, you get the drift, I think. I don't backtalk my mother much but this evening it just went on and on for a long time. I finilly told her in Revelation and in the writings of Paul Sabbath-keepers aren't mentioned, Christians, those true to Christ are mentioned. Her comeback is that only Sabbath-keepers are true to Christ because He said, "I am lord of the Sabbath". Also, only Sabbath-keepers can be real Christans and this DOES NOT include Seventh-day Baptists and the other Sabbath-keeping groups because they teach just like The Sunday-keepers on the state of the dead. When I wouldn't get into a big deal with her on all that she started in on the state of the dead, wanting to know why Sunday-keepers even bother believing in Christs second coming if they believe the souls of the righteous go be with God at death anyway. I need some encouragement, prayers and advice. Thank-you. |
Thomas1 (Thomas1)
| | Posted on Saturday, December 14, 2002 - 8:41 pm: | |
Susan,
it is so hard to "honor your mother" yet keep your eyes on the Cross, when they really, in all sincerity, try to take your eyes away. My prayer is for strength and wisdom for you, and peace for our mother.
My mom went through the same things. At the end of her life, at an "annointing" held by her church, there were three SDA pastors who would not (could not) offer her assurance of her salvation. I was allowed to offer prayer at the end of the service. This was done on the request of my brother, even though the SDA pastors were NOT in agreement. At the time I was a member and lay minister in the United Methodist Church. During my prayer, I assured my mom of assurance in Jesus. It was the only way available. Though she never spoke to me about it, she did tell my wife that she was very surprised that I "had a realationship with Jesus", even thoough I had left the "church".
Keep your faith and do not be afraid to live it by sharing the Gospel with your mother. She may not agree, but seeing you live your faith in action....including your church worship, will be the best sermon she will ever "hear". I really believe the best way to "honor' someone is to point them to Jesus.
You are
In His Grip
<><
Thomas |
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
| | Posted on Saturday, December 14, 2002 - 10:53 pm: | |
Susan, I second what Thomas said above. And I also agree that your church worship is part of your witness to her. Perhaps you could take her on her errands after your service. It is not disrespectful to take the time to go to church. Your love and respect for her are clear, and your mom knows how you love her. Your departure from Adventism she may take personally, but that is something you cannot fix.
I know a couple (he's a retired SDA pastor) who have three grown daughters. One is a former Adventist and attends church on Sunday. The others are still Adventist to some degree. The woman confided to a close acquaintace of mine recently that the non-Adventist daughter treats her with much more love and respect than do the two Adventist daughters. "My husband doesn't want me to tell people this," she further confided!
Your mom will see that your experience with Jesus is enhancing rather than hurting your love for her.
My prayer for you is that you will be able to love your mother for God and that you will have the courage to worship as God leads you.
Colleen |
Susan_2 (Susan_2)
| | Posted on Friday, December 20, 2002 - 2:09 am: | |
IT'S TWINS!!!!! My son who isin the Navy and is stationed in Italy just phoned. His wife is pregnant with TWINS!!! WOW! I get two grandbabies at one time to love. She is going to have to go to Germany to have them. The due date is in May. P.S. Colleen, since this has nothing to do with being a Former, just delete it after everyone gets to share my joy for a day or so. Thanks. Oh, and everyone please remember my daughter-in-law in your prayers that the Good Lord will bless her with a good pregnancy and that the babies wil be just a-o.k. Her name is Shirley. Thank-you for your continuing prayers. That know one is a boy. They coudn't tell about the other baby. |
Carol_2 (Carol_2)
| | Posted on Friday, December 20, 2002 - 4:44 am: | |
Congratulations Susan! I'm so happy for you and a bit envious too. I cannot wait to have grandchildren - God bless you and your precious family! Happy Holidays and much love and prayers to all, Carol (P.S. I think Colleen will agree that news like this is perfectly appropriate to share with your forum family.) |
Lydell (Lydell)
| | Posted on Friday, December 20, 2002 - 7:21 am: | |
How exciting Susan. I think you ought to start shopping now, don't you? |
Susan_2 (Susan_2)
| | Posted on Friday, December 20, 2002 - 9:00 am: | |
You are so right about that. I already have a store down in Southern California ordering a crib I want to give the kids. Today I will phone the store and have them order another one. Let me tell you about the crib. It's just too cool. First, it's cloth with metal legs and comes apart and has a carry bag. I figured with them being in the military and having to travel so much they would be better off with something portable to confine the kid in. It's the size of a porta crib. Fist, it has contraption that hooks onto the rails so when the baby is a little newborn the adults don't have to bend way over to change him or pick her up. Half is made into a bassinette and the other half is a changing area. When the baby gets too big for that it just lifts right off and the mattress unfolds and becomes a mattress for the bottom of the crib. Then in the corner is an electronic panal that required two "D" batteries. On this panal is a soft light that can be turned of and on. Also are several buttons that when pusher makes the crib play various lullibies ihn the built-in sound panal. (Is this just too cool, or what?) It has a recorder so the others can leave recorded messages for the baby. For instance when my son goes to work he can leave a message for his little sprout so the child can hear Daddy during the day. Whatever. But, the really most awsome thing of all about this crib is there is one button on the panl that when pressed makes the entire crib VIBRATE! IS that just too wild, or what? Yep, it's supposed to make the baby feel like he is still inside of Mommy. Ah, modern technology! BTW, I never had anything this classy for my own children but the idea of Grandma has transformed me from Miss Frugal into Miss I Want Everyrthing For My Grandbabies! |
Susan_2 (Susan_2)
| | Posted on Friday, December 20, 2002 - 7:40 pm: | |
I will share what just happened about two hours ago. My mom is elderly and has been having some health troubles. Her doctor apointment was scheduled for 4:45 this afternoon. Finilly around 6 o'clock she got taken in to be seen. By this time the sun had set. As you all know, today is Friday. She mentioned that if she had known the apointment would have gone past sundown she would not have made her doctor apointment on Friday. I said, "Mom, don't worry about it. Jesus healed on the Sabbath". She agreed and was pleased to have a positive apointment with her sweetheart of a doctor. After her apointment she needed to go to the supermarket to get a few groceries and she wanted an ice cream. She asked me what I thought about getting those groceries on Sabbath. I told her, "Mom, don't worry about it. When Jesus was hungry on the Sabbath he picked grain and ate it". She agreed and got hr few things and an ice cream and seems to have no guilt feelings about either the doctor apointment or the food. I think I deserve a good pat on the back for the way I handled the situtation. Do you all agree that I was tactful and it is a good thing that my mom got her medical care and something she will eat. I'm quite proud of me! CLAP! CLAP! CLAP! |
Jerry (Jerry)
| | Posted on Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 8:07 am: | |
That is EXACTLY what Jesus meant when he said, "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath."
Hooray, Susan!! |
Rkymtnhi (Rkymtnhi)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 3:03 am: | |
Wow, way to go, ata girl, Susan. Good job!!
The peace of being led by the Holy Spirit who gives you the words to say at the time you need them. |
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 10:14 pm: | |
Good responses, Susan! Praise God for the authority and grace that comes from His Spirit!
Colleen |
Windmotion (Windmotion)
| | Posted on Thursday, December 26, 2002 - 5:37 pm: | |
Here is a question:
My husband comes from a family of Adventists and his family now thinks he's going to hell b/c he's no longer an Advenist (I was never an adventist, but he left the sda church after we were married.) Anyways, his mom is coming from across the country Friday to see her new grandchild. Should we ask her to go to church with us on Sunday or would that be offensive to her? Should just I go and David stay home, or should no one go to church. I really love my church, but the worship style is "peppy" compared to what she is used to. My pastor is really great and preaches as nonoffensively as can be. (Our "slogan" is "come as you are and you will be loved.)I don't want to hurt her feelings, but I don't want to turn down an opportunity to "share the love."
--Hannah |
Doug222 (Doug222)
| | Posted on Thursday, December 26, 2002 - 5:45 pm: | |
Hannah,
Offer her an invitation to come to your church, but also seek out where the local SDA Church is and offer to take her there if she would like. Do not be afraid to go to your church because she might be offended.
Depending on the circumstances, I might even consider visiting the Adventist church with her on Saturday and then attending my church as well on Sunday. By your showing a willingness to break down barriers, she may be more willing to do the same.
In His Grace |
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
| | Posted on Thursday, December 26, 2002 - 6:52 pm: | |
Hannah, I agree with Doug. I especially think that both of you should attend church as usual. Trying not to offend by not going to church as usual will send a confusing message and will certainly not lessen his mom's conviction that you both are wrong.
(By the way, it makes me so happy to hear that you and he are going to church together--I remember when you first started posting here how much turmoil you were in because David was insistently Adventist and disagreed heartily with you. I remember how we prayed for him and for you! Praise God!)
Attending your church may not make his mom more receptive to hear your understanding of the Bible, but if she's willing to go, it could help dispell whatever misunderstandings she may have about what you're doing.
Don't be afraid to talk about your experiences while she's there. Hearing you praise God for what He's doing in your life is something she can't argue. It may confuse her, but she really can't argue with your experience.
God will use this opportunity to glorify himself, even if you don't see how at the time. Ask him to be in your home and in your conversations with her, and he will speak through you and David.
Let us know how it's going!
With prayers for you and David,
Colleen |
Windmotion (Windmotion)
| | Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2002 - 8:51 pm: | |
Well, she is going to church, so if you can remember to pray. It is a Free Evangelical church woo hoo Dennis. I hope she wont think it is too laid back or loud or demonstrative. Pray for us.
--HANNAH |
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
| | Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2002 - 9:09 pm: | |
Hannah, that's great! I'll be praying!
Colleen |
Clay (Clay)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 11:24 am: | |
I thought since this thread is dealing with family, I wanted to share my recent experience with my SDA family.
My brother and his wife are very conservative SDA's who have had questions about my theology for years but they would never talk to me about it, but I would hear it from other sources.
We went to see them this Christmas and I was praying that I would have an opportunity to openly talk about my spiritual journey out of Adventism.
We finally got on the subject and it became a very interesting and lively discussion. My brother's wife got very defensive and was raising her voice in an effort to somehow proove me wrong. It was very hard for them I am sure to find out I did not agree with many SDA doctrines and specifically EGW. The Holy Spirit gave me such calmness I couldn't believe I was not getting deffensive.
My sister-in-law was making notes fast and furiously so she could do some checking later.
At the end I gave them Greg Taylor's article from this web site and they were anxious to read it to proove me wrong I am sure but who knows.
It was funny but they sounded like Mormons who have a few key text's that they go round and round on and I realize I used to use the same weak arguments.
In the end they thanked me for sharing where I was theologically becuase they had heard rumors but had been afraid to ask.
Before we left we hugged and I said I hoped we would still be friends and that I was not trying to change their beliefs but just letting them know where I was at. They seemed very relieved.
They will no doubt share this information with other family now so we may experience some problems in the future, but it felt so good to get it all out in the open.
I just want to be open with my friends and family but at the same time be loving and kind in sharing with them.
Both my wife and I felt so at peace and have the assurance that we are on the right track and that God is leading in our journey. Praise His Name.
We will see what happens. |
Terryk (Terryk)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 2:58 pm: | |
Dear Clay just wanted to give you maybe a glimer of hope. I was trying to prove what I believed was right and my friend was wrong and here I am today sitting on the outside of the SDA church. I still am going no where fast with some old SDA friends who said they wanted to know why my family left the church. I sure wish I could get to the point you are that you do not get upset by their blindness and really it seems and unwillingness to really study and know what their church teaches and what the Bible says. Please keep me in prayer. I still would love to hear some of the people on the forums stories for those of us who have just came on board. If anyone would like to share tbawgus@hotmail.com. Terryk |
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 5:09 pm: | |
Clay, that is such a wonderful story you posted above. Praise God for his peace.
Terry, I understand your frustration with your Adventist friends. Your post reminds me of something a friend of mine told me recently. She has family members whom she knows are lost and whose lives are full of abuses and indulgences that that hurt many people. Just recently she told me that she finally got to the point where she decided she had to trust God's sovereignty in their regard. She will continue to pray that God will do whatever it takes to bring them to himself, but if they do not respond, she will trust God even with that. She's pretty much given up talking to them about their lives unless there seems to be a moment of openness initiated by one of them.
You're right, Terry, about that unwillingness to study and know. That blindness, though, is the result of not turning their eyes to Jesus. The most powerful thing you can do is to pray for them (I know that sounds like a cliché). Then we have to simply trust God's timing and trust our loved ones to his care. And along with praying for them, I've often found I have to pray that God will show me how to relate to them in the meantime and how to love them for him.
By the way, there are stories of several forum members (past and present) on our Stories page on this website. By the way, we'd like to invite those of you who are reading and haven't written your story to do so and to send them to FormerAdventist@AOL.com so we can post them. I think you'll discover, as I did, that writing your story is cathartic and clarifying. It was a wonderful experience and affirmation of God's leading in my life.
Colleen |
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