| Author |
Message |
Dennisrainwater (Dennisrainwater)
| | Posted on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 12:26 pm: |     |
Thank you Sabra -- please do!! I am so excited for both him and my step-mom. They are both finally really GETTING IT!! In fact, my step-mother pulled me aside just a few months ago (she had been SO hardened for SO long) and said quietly, "Your dad and I want to thank you for praying for us for so long!" Those were just about the sweetest words I have EVER heard!! Praise God, He DOES work miracles!!
Thank you Sabra AND Lydell for your insights. I am blessed by your help.
Have a fantastic weekend everyone,
Den<>< |
Sabra (Sabra)
| | Posted on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 2:29 pm: | |
Dennis,
That's wonderful! I think my mom might be getting (some part of) IT too. She is taking Experiencing God (dangerous thing for those SDA's to be dabbling in a non-SDA study) ha ha. She said the other day she is really being enlightened to a lot of things. Such as the fact that God pursues us and draws us and the more we get to know Him the more we change instead of the other way around.
Our prayers are working and we gotta stay faithful!
Any progress on your mom? |
Kme (Kme)
| | Posted on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 4:01 pm: | |
Thank you Sabra and Dennis for your encouraging words about your parents. But how did you ever even get them to study anything else but Adventisim? My Dad won't study anything directly out of the Bible without a book (SDA)as a guide, and his wife is worse. We can't even discuss religious things anymore because he is not open to anything else and thinks we will surely come back to the church. I don't feel I can adequately explain with scripture alone our position.
Anyway, I admire how eloquently some of you put your thoughts and instruction together here.
kme |
Jerry (Jerry)
| | Posted on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 5:06 pm: | |
Ah, yes, Isaiah 66:23. That brings to mind an interesting, yet fruitless e-mail conversation I had with a Sabbath zealot.
I pointed out that if he was saying that this was a prophecy for our time and about the observance of the Sabbath (which it is not in both respects) that he should as himself a question:
Does not the verse make exactly the same statement about New Moons? Do you not need to observe the Levitical new moon offerings? The fourth commandment does not command a worship service or offerings. It commands REST! Only elsewhere in Leviticus 23 and other places are such things commanded.
He responded that ìI will only know the pleasure of offering on the New Moons when I am with the Lord after He comes again.î
I said, ìReally? So will you allow me to say the same about the Sabbath and not do that until after the second coming? Do you so lightly regard the verse that you will not be consistent in your interpretation? Do you pick and choose when you read the Bible?î
I told him that this was an indication of continuousness (day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year)
Besides, is it not interesting that they do not notice the signs of the prophecy?
It says, that then ìshall ALL FLESH COME TO WORSHIP before me.î Obviously, if one could but notice, this has not happened yet! Look at all the religions that cannot possibly be about the Creator we know that exist in this world followed by so many.
Not only do people, who use this verse to extend the seventh day to Christians, not look at the verse in context. They also fail to look at the verse itself with a modicum of common sense. |
Clay (Clay)
| | Posted on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 8:47 pm: | |
I have enjoyed reading this discussion and just want to make a few comments.
When we study the Bible to verify some pre-concieved idea we have either grown up with or been taught, we will only see in the text what we want to see.
It is only when we truly are open to fresh insights and are really willing for the Holy Spirit to reveal whatever truth he wants to show us, that we will truly see new truth.
I have been an SDA for 50 years and for 15 as a SDA pastor. It was only when I was truly open to whatever truth God wanted for me, even though it may contradict something I had already believed,that the Holy Spirit was able to reveal new understandings.
I had read the passages in Heb. and 2Cor. and Gal many times and never saw the truth in them. When my wife and I finally quit trying to defend Adventism and were open and free to whatever God choose to reveal, then we would find ourselves saying to each other as we studied,
"Wow listen to this text. Its a plain as can be. How could I have missed it before."
It was like we were studying the bible for the 1st time. I can't tell you how exciting it has been for us and how freeing.
By the way I highly recommend reading the "New Living Translation ". It is wonderful.
I just feel like God has so much more for me to understand about his word and I study it now as a child and not as a pastor who has all the answers.
Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit will guide us into truth and when we study with an open mind and surrendered heart, we must trust that the Holy Spirit is doing just that.
He will reveal only that which he feels is what we need at this time.
Jesus told his disciples that he had much more to teach them but they were not able to receive it at that time.
God is so gentle and patient with us. Yea God! |
Thomas1 (Thomas1)
| | Posted on Saturday, September 28, 2002 - 5:46 pm: | |
Bro. Clay,
I so totally agree. When I first began to study in ernest, I had to empty my mind of what I thought was truth. I wrote a prayer that i have taped in the inside cover of all of my Bibles. It is a constant reminder of why I am reading. It goes as follows:
Lord Jesus
You are God, there is no other. You are the Lord of my life.
You promised that Your Holy Spirit would teach us and lead us into all truth.
Teach me the truth as it is. Not the way I think it is, have been taught it is, or wish it were.
Lead me into Your ways, as they are, not the way I think they are or wish them to be. Fill me with Your spirit and help me to trust You and love You more and more each day.
Thank You,
Amen
I hope this will be a blessing to someone, as it has become to me.
In His Grip
<><
Thomas |
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
| | Posted on Saturday, September 28, 2002 - 11:47 pm: | |
Thomas, that is a great prayer. I was just reading in Matthew 16 where Peter said to Jesus, "You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God," and Jesus told him that had been revealed not by man but by the Father. I realized that Peter's statement was evidence of a huge risk on his partósort of like the risk we have taken when we risked believing the truth of the gospel instead of the "truth" we had been taught. Peter rsiked everything he knew and understood to acknowledge Jesus as the Son of God. That acknowledgement bore no resemblance to what the Pharisees and Saducees had taught the Jews.
Acknowledging Jesus and being willing to know truth always means that we must be willing to give up everything we thought we knew. Keeping truth and not falling victim to deception or false doctrines also means that we must focus on God's word and continually yield ourselves to the Holy Spirit in us, moment by moment. We have to be willing to know the unthinkable. And we must be willing to surrender control to Jesus.
I just praise God for calling us and revealing himself to us and for continuing to teach us!
Colleen |
African (African)
| | Posted on Sunday, September 29, 2002 - 11:45 pm: | |
Den, thank you for bringing up this particular topic. I have truely benefited from this discussion as I too, have had these verses 'thrown in our faces!. We were able to use some of the verses some of you mentioned above, but boy, what I would give to have you all in our discussions at home here!!! I'm praising God for your dad Den and your step mom. How wonderful it will be for them to take this journey together. Prayers are NEVER futile.
We even had with us an SDA friend who is training to be a paster. He told us we have planted seed in their minds and that there is definitely a need for Bible Study and especially to be led by the Holy Spirit only.
Continue to pray for us as we are having so much opportunity to share with family these days. There's been no heated arguments as such - but deep, deep discussions.
We have had opportunity to just share how closer we are to God now and how the Bible is coming alive to us with sure simple clarity one step at a time as the Holy Spirit sees fit to reveal at His own sweet time! Sure, there are still so many questions, but we're learning to just enjoy our new relationship with Christ and the joy in our lives is something so wonderful - it has begun to take the place of the confusion, hurts doubts (& more!)which we experienced in the not so distant past.
I thank God for all of you and the part that you all are, in bringing us to a more meaniful relationship with our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. |
Carol_2 (Carol_2)
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 3:25 am: | |
Praise the Lord African! It seems to be rare when SDAs are truly so open minded about studying the Bible and to being led by the Holy Spirit. God is really using you, how awesome! |
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 3:09 pm: | |
African, I'm thrilled to read about your family's discussions and growth in Jesus. That relationship with Jesus is inexplicable to anyone who hasn't experienced it, but it is the most reality-changing experience of life. I am so thankful he doesn't leave when we feel discouraged, that he doesn't depend on us to "fix" the people in our lives, and that HE finishes the work he begins in us. We don't have to fix ourselves!
I'm praising God for his work in you and your family!
Love,
Colleen |
Sabra (Sabra)
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 7:50 pm: | |
Watching Joyce Meyer tonight she said she really feels there is a hunger for the Word growing rapidly, she's seeing it in attendance in her meetings and I think she's right. I feel an outpouring of the Holy Spirit in my own family. My cousin and Aunt are really studying and now my mom and step-dad. It's so exciting! Even at my job! So much talk about church today and things going on in everyone's spiritual lives. Guess, God is finished with me there and moving me on to something bigger and better. Can't wait to see what it is! |
African (African)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 5:02 am: | |
After thanking God for open minded people..we have to pray for some others.....
Last night my brother in law came to visit again -bringing with him a magazine entitled "Landmarks". He came to tell us all about how EGW prophesied about the 11 Sept disaster in America. Everything this article portrayed was to uphold EGW and the Sabbath. He spoke about the time of trouble, and about the SDA's being the remnant and how the American Government was implementing certain strategies which unknown to them, were setting the precident for the Sunday Law to be enforced and the persecution of the SDA's in the near future. etc.etc.
I can't help but loose my patience. After much 'dictating' to us, my husband finally told his brother kindly, that we should be spending our energies on praying for the unsaved (so many in our own families), and evangelising and introducing people to JESUS. i.e. instead of always wanting to prove EGW as being correct or to uphold a day and loose sight of the ONE that should be lifted up.
His response was "yes, but..."
He never seems to listen if we have something to say. After we say something, or refer him to a bible passage - he's like "ye..er..now Mrs White says..." and he just goes on and on.
My husband says I come accross too strongly and that I should be patient, and loving, and..
In his prayer before leaving, he is thankful for The Sprit of Prophecy, for the Holy Sabbath day
and for being part of the (holy) Remnant Church.
All this SDA stuff just kinda jumps out at me in all their conversations and prayers.
Were we like that too? (shudder!)
Lets continue to pray for one another. Thanks |
Bmorgan (Bmorgan)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 9:57 am: | |
Yes African, I still get irritated to a certain degree wben I hear such nonsense.However, I m learning to be silent and just give a blank stare when anyone begins spurting their EGW/Adventist ines.
My husband amuses me with his comebacks.Someone said to us,
"Oh Mrs White prophesied about the September 11 disaster."
His response.."Why did the church NOT share such vital information so we could prevent it. Maybe the government should charge them for conspiracy, withholding information."
About the Spirit of Prophecy, he says,
"When I looked at the cross, I did not see EGW's arms stretched out for me. Keep her, give me Jesus."
You have to take it all in stride. Your tolerance level does increase where what they say bounces off like feathers falling. Irritating, but lightweight.
Blessings. |
Jerry (Jerry)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 1:41 pm: | |
EGW September 11 ìProphecyî: It is like stepping on a cockroach. You smash it with your shoe only to see it run away as you lift your shoe to inspect the damage.
Even the White Estate denies that this was a prophecy about September 11.
She wrote this in the first decade of the 1900ís.
Let us consider this:
In New York, at about that time, some of the dramatically taller buildings were being built. There were many vocal people, who were critical of these buildings. There were MANY articles published, which were critical of these buildings. Criticisms frequently mentioned fire as a danger. It was well known that fire equipment of the time tended to be inadequate for fires in these buildings. Much of the tall building construction occurred in New York.
How ìamazingî that a well-known ìprophet,î who obsessed on the end of the world and the destruction of current human society, and probably knew about these situations would ìpredictî that tall buildings in New York would be destroyed by fire.
Oh, Please!!!
I now ìprophesyî that there will be more acts of terrorism in a big American city.
Ooo! Maybe I can start a new religion. Ya think?
J |
African (African)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 10:40 pm: | |
Gimme that old time religion... it's good enough for me... :-)
Oh, the White Estate denied the prophesy? Is there any where I could find that statement? Not that I have to prove anything..but it would be great to know. |
Jerry (Jerry)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 6:46 am: | |
Here is an article explaining the quotes from an ex SDA point of view.
http://www.truthorfables.com/WTC_Attack.htm
Here is the official web page from the White Estate
http://www.ellenwhite.com/issues/Conflicts.asp
Here is a list of search results from the White Estate for the words ìfire engines could do nothingî
As you will see, she used the VERY SAME WORDS to cover more than one prediction. (Some of these hits cross reference to the same quote.) San Francisco was one of them.
http://www.egwestate.andrews.edu/cgi-bin/egw2html?C=22567735&K=094831100210228360
http://www.egwestate.andrews.edu/cgi-bin/egw2html?C=23890779&K=094831100210228360
http://www.egwestate.andrews.edu/cgi-bin/egw2html?C=62319250&K=094831100210228360
http://www.egwestate.andrews.edu/cgi-bin/egw2html?C=133692341&K=094831100210228360
The above four links may not work. You may need to redo the search on the www.ellenwhite.com search the writings.
Use the old database and use quotes like this : ìfire engines could do nothingî |
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