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Dennis (Dennis)
Posted on Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 1:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In early July, 2002, a jury convicted two Australian Seventh-day Adventist parents of manslaughter for killing their six-month old son, Baby Caleb. The reason was that the parents claimed the so-called "health message" of Ellen White. For example, these parents avoided all dairy products, etc. for their precious baby (fats are actually necessary for infant health and well-being). They sternly believed in the original Edenic diet (taught and recommended by SDAs) of only fruits, grains, and nuts. Furthermore, they were so sure of Ellen White's advice, that they even refused medical B12 injections for their dying, under-nourished baby.

Also, remember the tragic news story, several years ago, of a Union College theology graduate and his wife that literally starved their young son to death in Pennsylvania? The reason: They had no money to buy any food for their growing, nine-year old son. However, following the parents' arrest, the police discovered nearly $3,000.00 in the house that was strictly reserved for tithe.

My barber relates his childhood experience, in southern Colorado, of having to go barefoot a whole summer due to his parents' lack of money. At the same time, he was aware that his parents had $500.00 in cash for tithe in the kitchen cupboard.

The primary reason I am relating these tragic stories is to reveal the truth of the following, relevant statement that we have magnetically-posted on our refrigerator: SALVATION IS A GIFT TO BE RECEIVED, NOT A GOAL TO BE ACHIEVED (Christian author unknown). Sylvia and I were impacted enough by this statment to embrace Biblical Christianity.

Sincerely in Christ,

Dennis J. Fischer
Lydell (Lydell)
Posted on Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 2:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dennis, there are so many of those sad stories. The elderly mother of an SDA friend here died a few years back because she refused to take a medicine that would have saved her. Why? Why because it contained an enzyme that was taken from pigs. And you can't be consuming pigs, of course. Her doctor at the time was a friend of ours, a committed Christian, and he was deeply frustrated by this.
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Monday, September 23, 2002 - 4:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's truly ironic, isn't it? It's better to be sick and wasting away (the very condition the health message purportedly prevents) than to consume a pig enzyme? No matter how often or from what different angles I look at "the health message", I can't escape the conviction that in an unacknolwedged but powerful way, its rigid diet and lifestyle requirements are a way of "purging" onesself from larger but more hidden sins one can't master. In addition, focusing on diet and lifestyle to the extent EGW taught, we truly have no room in our consciousness for relating to Jesus. We're too busy planning our next whole-grain, no free-fats meal for which we're already starving long before the clock says we can eat it (no morsel of food is to pass the lips between meals, remember, which must be spaced four to five hours apart).

Praise God all foods are declared cleanóbut especially praise God that what goes into our mouths does not make us clean. Jesus does thatóall without our help!! He loves us, and we are his!

Colleen
Lydell (Lydell)
Posted on Monday, September 23, 2002 - 7:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Absolutely, Colleen. Another thing I notice with those who are seriously vegetarian, whether SDA or not, is that there is an altogether too easy tendency to use it to fall into judging others. You can't just be at a potluck and enjoy yourself. No, you have to be closely inspecting the food to see whether or not it is "okay" to eat. And those you see who take too much of what you have deemed the "wrong" food, well now.... It happens with those who are really seriously into health in any form, I think. And maybe that is exactly why He declared all foods clean. Level the playing field and take away one of the measuring rods.

But then really it can be applied to so many things. It's a type of prejudice really.
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 5:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good point, Lydell. It reminds me that the natural condition of un-reborn humanity is WORKS.

Colleen
Dennisrainwater (Dennisrainwater)
Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 11:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Has anyone else ever noted that it seems that those most wrapped up in the health issues often are some of the more UNhealthy people with whom you are aquainted? At least in my experience, the folks who worry the most about living by all the health rules are often lacking in vitality, and have a sort of general pallor... And if that is not enough, their sourness of spirit makes them seem unhealthy in other ways...

Sad.

Den<><
Bmorgan (Bmorgan)
Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 12:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dennis,
I don't know of the general pallor. Many of the ones I know are blessed with darker skin tone so there is no way of it getting "pale".:)

However, I do get the general idea.It is the "sour spirit" That scared me to death. I used to be scared that I would be old and sour like those people.

I get a general tone from many adventists, they are always skeptical about taking medicines prescribed by doctors. They insinuate modern medicine is evil. The strange thing is that these are people who don't read/study EGW, however, that tone definitely came from directly from her influence.

Food and health seem to consume Adventists lives. Either they stifle their consciences and eat the "unhealthy" things,viz.sugar, meat, eggs, cheese,coffee, etc. or they are frantically reading labels and or "inspecting" food.
Trust me, I lived the latter for too many years.
Thank God for His grace, and freedom to live.
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Amen again, Bmorgan!! What a relief not to worry about either the guilt or the compulsion!

Praise God for freedom!

Colleen
Carol_2 (Carol_2)
Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 4:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

exactly right dennis! it's amazing, the sdas i know most into the health stuff are usually pale & pastey, seem weak & frail, etc., it's strange but true! a couple of years ago at our church (where i was then the secretary) we had a bunch of students visiting for the summer (i'm kinda getting off subject, but oh well,) that were "LEs" or literature evangelists. they slept in the gym & school for the summer, and spent LONG days hitting the streets to "evangelize." anyway, these were some of the most legalistic bunch of kids i'd ever been around. the girls had to wear dresses, etc. anyway, i can remember hearing the kids talk among themselves about "gaining victory over peanut butter" and such. they also were rather sickly, frail looking kids, for the most part. looking back now and comparing them to the dozens and dozens of kids/teens/young adults at the church i attend, and how "normal," alive, and on fire for Jesus they are, it's as you say dennis, Sad. (am i being mean and/or judgmental? i'm sorry if i am. but it's so strange when you come out of that, you look back & think, how did i not realize how weird that all was!!!) love and prayers to all, carol
Dennis (Dennis)
Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 8:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Several years ago while visiting Andrews University and its adjoining Pioneer Memorial Church, a friend of ours who is a public health educator and a registered nurse, told us how shocked she was to see so many older women with serious osteoporosis (humped-over spines) far beyond the norm in the general population. Presumably, these older SDA women were around institutional centers for most of their lives. Their diets obviously lacked calcium due to their non-dairy convictions. Many SDA health enthusiasts do not even take any vitamin and mineral supplements because they firmly believe in the natural, all-sufficiency of the "health message."

Years ago, soy milk and meat analogs were not supplemented with Vitamin B12 and calcium as they are today. Even my wife, while pregnant, got Bell's palsy once due to Vitamin B12 deficiency. It was most scary experience for her to wake up one morning with her face and mouth pulled to one side like a stroke patient. Fortunately, with Vitamin B12 injections and a facial exercise regimen, she got well within two weeks.

Furthermore, we have some SDA neighbors that are virtual prisoners in their own home. They are vegans--meaning no dairy or egg products in their diet. Addditionally, they do not drink sodas, coffee, tea, et cetera. They have no desire to eat out ever. With them, it seems to be a march toward perfection. They subscribe to numerous health letters in addition to repeatedly reading Ellen White's red books. Without their admitting it, they never feel good enough to be fully accepted by Christ. This heavily-restricted lifestyle is often referred to as a "treadmill religion."

Dennis J. Fischer
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 10:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dennis, you're so right! My mom's doctor is a geriatric specialist, and once, in a conversation with me, she referred to all the Adventist women she sees with "bones of glass". And you're right about the health letters. While my mom is also a former Adventist, many of the diet practices have "stuck". She does eat meat occasionally (emphasize "occasionally"), but she eschews (isn't that a great word in this context?!) dairy, and she avoided calcium supplements for years. Only within the last couple of years did she start taking themówhen she was diagnosed with bones of glass.

It's really all very ironicóand it's really hard to get past because of the deep emotional associations we develop about food.

Still praising God for freedom and for understanding and leading us gently,
Colleen
Lydell (Lydell)
Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 6:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

and Dennis, don't forget having to ask what KIND of jello this is they are being served. haha I remember going to an SDA friends house one day for a get together with some other folks. One of the families, the extreme vegan types, had an adorable little girl about 5 years old. I remember seeing that little girl with a look of the most absolute delighted fascination eating a bowl of jello....the real stuff....for the very first ever! Her mom, of course, had this look of veiled horror on her face. pretty sad

And getting victory over peanut butter! My word! My mom grew up in a very poor family. She tells me that during the depression it was pretty much peanut butter that kept them healthy!

You can just look back and remember so many sad comments that you heard. I remember same woman I mentioned above telling me with great sadness that she was having alot of trouble deciding what could be taken with them in a move overseas. They were extremely limited in the amount of weight they could ship. She was agonizing over which of egw's books she would have to leave behind. That was just like dumping a bucket of ice water over my head. I remarked with shock, "well why not leave them all and just take your BIBLE!"

She sighed and replied, "well yes, I guess I just don't seem to have the same love for the Bible that I have for the writings of Ellen White." GAG, I mean GAG!!

We were already at that time beginning our move out the doors of the denomination. But that was a big shove, ya know? And I have to think that everyone of us can think back to those times when we heard those comments that were a real slap upside the head. It was those comments, I believe, that the Lord used to prod us all into the Word!

So, you other folks here in the deep south....how much rain are you up to now? Looks like we've had 5 or 6 in the past 2 days, so far. No tornadoes here, thus far, praise God.
Sabra (Sabra)
Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 4:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Raining cats and dogs here in TN!! YUCK

Not as yucky as picking EGW over the Bible, double yuck! And they say it isn't a cult. hmmmm
Janet (Janet)
Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Raining still, here in South Western, KY...flooding just down the road from here. I am on higher ground, though.
In His Care,
Janet

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