| Author | Message | ||
| Lee (Lee) |
Hi Everyone, I've been lurking around here for several months. Your stories have been an inspiration and a blessing. After 40 years in SDAism, serving in many areas I realise I have given the best I had to offer to a system that dosen't work! I am so angry and frustrated I could spit! I am convinced of the worthlessness of the "writings" I finally understand that the plan of Salvation is SIMPLE and BEAUTIFUL and INCLUSIVE!!! So simple that a child can understand, so beautiful that I am overcome with love and awe, and so inclusive that for the first time in my life I believe I will be saved! So...Why am I angry?!! I wasted so much time in the doctrinal mire that is SDAism. I dragged my children into it and they are now employed by it! My years in legalism most certianly have cost others eternity. I was not only a legalist, I was a cruel legalist...Is there any other kind? Now I want out, but I fear for the effect on my family,, especially my elderly parents. My leaving will break their hearts. While I have personally lost my belief in the SDA system I don't want to weaken the faith my adult children currently have. Like the title says... I feel trapped. I have resigned all offices in the church beliving it was disingenuous to continue. I have continued to teach my contemporary issues class however. Most of us in the class wear the heretic lable anyway. It is so good to come here and see the stories and thoughts of others who have and are going through the same struggles. It is encouraging more than you can imagine. Thanks, Lee | ||
| Carol_2 (Carol_2) |
Welcome Lee! The only words of wisdom I have are those I know from my own experience....stay focused on the Lord and let His Spirit lead you. He will bring you out at the best pace for you, He will watch over your parents, He will deal with your children....you will be in our prayers. God bless you, Carol | ||
| African (African) |
Hi & welcome Lee! I can relate to everything you are going thru. As you allow the Holy Spirit to take control, you will begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel. It's happening for me, as has has been and is happening for everyone else here. When you start focusing on Our wonderful Lord and saviour, things will begin to fall into place as and when the Holy Spirit sees fit. Not so long ago, I spent so much time agonising on how to tell everyone. I felt like a hypocrite trying to live two lives. I took some advise from the folk here, and just began to enjoy my newfound relationship with God and things are starting to fall into place. No, my problems breaking free are not yet over, but I just try to keep focused on JESUS and I can actually see God working out these problem situations for me. "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not unto your own understanding, but in all your ways acknowledge Him, and HE WILL DIRECT YOUR PATHS" Prov. 3:5 & 6 Will be praying for you. God bless. | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Welcome Lee. Yes, if we focus our attention on all the years we spent in Adventism, we can see the waste of time that was there, the frustration, and just general anger and gloom settles over us. But you know, our God is a God who can redeem our past...when we give it to Him to reinterpret it for us. As I read your comments above, a name suddenly came to mind: Saul. He was a cruel legalist too! He could have gone off and sat in a corner and wept over his "lost years". We don't ever read in the scriptures about it, but you KNOW he has to have had serious problems dealing with family members and friends! He certainly was not a well-loved individual after he left Judaism. But just look at what the Lord was able to do with THE REST of his life. And that's always the key. It isn't our past that is of importance to God, but our now and our future. And that is what we are accountable for now. I do understand what you are saying about the anger. We all deal with it at some time. Just wanted to encourage you that the Lord is still in the business of creating beauty from ashes. I see a ray of hope in what you have written that I think you are maybe overlooking. Your children, apparently, followed your example. Okay, so now you know you led them the wrong way. But Lee, THEY FOLLOWED! That indicates to me that your children have some respect for you. I'm betting that if you allow the Lord to show you how and when and what to share with them that there are going to be some pleasant surprises for you along this road at some point. It doesn't necessarily mean they will immediately snatch what you say and joyful agree. Hey, it took YOU awhile to think on things and have your eyes opened, didn't it? My guess is that you will have far faster inroads with them if you focus first and foremost in your sharing with them on the glorious things you have found: that the gospel of salvation is simple and beautiful, and this passionate love you have for God in response to the passionate love He has for you. That is, afterall, THE issue. It isn't the warped writings, and legalism, etc. It is that God delights in His children. The rest of the unraveling of error follows along behind that. Hopefully the mistakes you made in teaching your children were genuinely done from believing that you were doing the right thing. Now you know you were wrong. Now you know that you muddied the gospel in teaching them. And that you complicated the simplicity. Lee, they may be adults but they are still your children. I think there is something else that you will have to do at some point, and ONLY when and how the Lord leads. And that is to apologize to them for how your error affected them. But when you do it, remember that God has already forgiven you. You are not responsible for whether or not they immediately forgive you. But you are responsible to apologize for steering them wrong. But you know, along with that apology has to come this message to them very clearly: "so I screwed up. Now you are an adult. YOU have a responsibility before God to investigate this and find out what is truth for yourself. Follow my example and realize that no one can do it for you. No one can predigest it for you. It's just you and the Holy Spirit. So what are you going to do? What are YOU going to teach YOUR family?" | ||
| Lori (Lori) |
I discerned the same impression from your post as Lydell. And you must remember Lee that your children are not doomed because of the decisions you made. The law of culpability stands supreme within the complete righteousness and justice of our God. Your children were not responsible for the way they were reared until they reached maturity and made a conscious well informed decision from their own volition to do the same thing you did. We underestimate the power of God when we think that our children can not be reached and spoken to by God and made to understand the things that we rejected. This is clearly delineated with the children of Israel. The generation which escaped from the bondage of Egypt were negative to God. They always yearned to go back. They whined, they complained, they never enjoyed the riches of God's grace in the desert. With two exceptions Joshua and Caleb. When they left Egypt they were taken to the desert to "march" into the promised land. Yet instead of "marching" in their souls they chose to "wander". They would not believe in God's promises enough to march so God let them wander in the desert just like their souls wandered. However, the next generation, grew up with the greatest teacher there ever was, Moses. There parents loathed and rejected his ministry to them. But the children believed him anyway. Inspite, of the negative comments they must have heard about Moses in the privacy of their homes. They continued to listen and they continued to believe in the messages they he gave them. The first generation was cursed; they died never realizing the spiritual blessings they chose to refrain from. However, the second generation, even though they made mistakes, persevered and they followed the commands of God and they entered the land. Lee, I encourage you to press forward to the goal before you. You will have a support group here that knows and understands your fears, your hurt and your pain. It fear which prevents us from taking a stand. I know it well. I have not fully escaped from it myself. I have often wished Paul could tell us the emotional reactions of his family and friends. The only record of Pauls past is recorded when he returned to Jerusalem for a celebration with his old buddies. (They were believers yet they held to the laws of Moses and criticized Paul bitterly because he did not.) Paul returned there against Gods approval and he made a terrible emotional mistake of taking part in a "ritual". Paul was severely reprimanded by God for this decision. We must go forward, we must "march" and not "wander". The words of Paul ring forth within my mind whenever I am feel discouraged against revealing my new beliefs to others. "I am not ashamed"....."I AM NOT ASHAMED of the Gospel of Christ". I often think about the way I used to be and how much faith I placed in going to church on Saturday. How it was going to be "the proof"!! And, how I hoped, without much confidence, that when the time came I would be able to say, "Yes, I'm a Sabbathkeeper!" When in the face of death I could trust that the Sabbath was the key. I was so afraid. In stark contrast, if someone threatened to kill me if I believed in Christ. I would say with confidence, "YES, I BELIEVE". When we spread the gospel message and reveal the deception this is what we are attempting to save them from. We are saving them from the fears and we are offering them confidence. Lee, God made you aware of this deception first for the same reason he did many others. Because you were the best one for the job!!! I have asked many times, "Why, me? Why didn't my parents figure this out first; why didn't someone else in my family show it to me? Why did I have to be the one?" The answer is because God knows best!! We can try to run and hide like Jonah or we can keep on marching like so many others before us!!! Remember its not your job to change them; it's just your job to deliver the message!!! | ||
| Thomas1 (Thomas1) |
Hi Lee, Welcome to the family! Like others I would suggest you immerse yourself in the story and writings of Paul. Could you be a more "cruel" legalist than he was? Could you face more opposition than he did? He was the ultimate law keeper, yet read his epistles and see what he believed and where he placed HIS faith. It will encuurage you and strengthen you. Like Brother Paul, put your eyes on Jesus and REFUSE to allow ANYTHING to take them off of Him. Another thing, If you have placed your complete trust in Him and asked Him to be your Lord and Savior, you ARE saved. It is not a hope of what will be, it is a reality that will never end! Start with that fact and the courage and joy it gives you....and work from there! Remember, you are always In His Grip! <>< Thomas | ||
| Bob (Bob) |
Lee, don't underestimate the positive effect your decision to leave Adventism may have on your family and your children, by the power of the Holy Spirit. During the 3+ decades that I was SDA, my brother, who had never been religious, wanted nothing to do with Adventism. After I had totally left the SDA church, and became Christ-centered in my focus and worship, my brother, to everyone's complete amazement, started to attend a Christian church, accepted Jesus as his Lord and Savior, and was baptized! He later told me that because of the changes he had seen in my life after I left Adventism, he had decided that Christianity deserved his serious consideration! My son was raised SDA and is still a member. After having prayed for him for several years, I now see him becoming intensely interested in examining the evidence against Adventist doctrine and practices. He is avidly studying all the materials I give him. With explosive power, the Holy Spirit has begun to open his eyes to the truth of the New Testament Gospel. So I encourage you to turn your fears about your loved ones over to God. Your bold decision to follow Jesus wherever His truth leads you will be used mightily by the Spirit of God in their lives as well as in your own! | ||
| Clay (Clay) |
Lee, I agree with all those who have written in reply to your message. The important thing is "What will I do now that I know the beautiful message of freedom in Christ?" You, like the rest of us spent years doing what you truly believed was what God wanted you to do, just as Saul did I am sure. That does not mean it was right but it was all we knew at the time. I too look back at 40 plus years in Advenitsm and wish I knew 40 years ago what I know now. At first I had anger with my parents but very quickly realized they were only raising me the way they believed was the best. I have 2 grown children, one of which attends an SDA church, but I know does it only for her son's sake. The other was hurt by the legalism both the church and I presented and pushed on her. I have asked her forgiveness and she also holds no resentment with me and is slowly coming back to a wonderful walk with Jesus. Both know where my wife and I stand now and we only try to love them as Jesus does. I have one remaining parent in the late 80's who's life is fast drawing to a close. She has been an SDA all her life and I feel that I would not be honoring her by upsetting her with telling her that I no longer am an SDA. I only try to give her the assurance of salvation by focusing on the gospel. I know it would be extremely upsetting to her to find out her son (a former SDA pastor) was no longer a believer. It would probably end her life. I just don't believe God would have me do that at this point in her life. Some might disagree with me and that's OK. I agree with Lori, the question is what would God have us do now that He has given us a clear picture? We have to trust Him to lead us and to show us what He wants us to do. Remember God's timetable is not ours. If we have laid everything on the line for Him, he will lead us and direct us what to do, but in His own time. I get too impatient at times and don't like to wait. Waiting develops faith and patience. AS African mentioned Prov.3:4-5.... trusting in the Lord means also waiting....and the promise is sure that 'He will direct our paths'. When you leave the so-called security of belonging to a denomination that claims to be God's remnant church, and realize that it is just you and Jesus, it is scary at first. However I have found that as you spend time educating your mind to the truth of God's word and in particular the "New Covenant Gospel", you begin to feel very secure and at peace. Oh yes there are days when you will feel overwhelmed with what the HOly Spirit has shown you, and you may tremble about what God my be asking you to do with it. At least this is my experience When this happens I have to spend serious time in prayer and study, and always a wonderful peace comes over me. I just praise God for His Holy Spirit. Lee, let God know about your anger, and let Him help you work it through. Don't get caught up in bitterness, resentment, and continually bad-mouthing Adventists. That can become a caustic poison that will destroy your spiritual vitality. I'm not saying to run from discussing the errors and helping other searching SDA's see the errors, but keep your focus on the wonderful, positive, New Testment (New Covenant) gospel of "FREEDOM and COMPLETE REST IN CHRIST 24/7" Truth will always expose error. Lee, Jesus wants to say to you, "Lee, I will keep you in perfect peace as long as your mind is focused on me" Blessings to you. | ||
| Janet (Janet) |
Glad you are here, Lee. I know I have found lots of help and encouragement through this forum! I will be praying for you and your family. I pray you feel Jesus closer than ever, and that He will lead you step by step. Knowing He Is Faithful, Janet | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Lee, welcome to the forum! I have often reflected on the verse in Joel that says God will restore the years the locusts ate. He has done that, and he's still doing it. Jesus wastes nothingóeven our deception and demanding teachingóand he redeems everything we submit to him. I've had to ask God to forgive me for the times I reinforced or outright taught SDA doctrines to my students and Bible study classes through the years. But I also know that those people whom I taught are ultimately in God's hands, and his desire is to save them, too. My teaching will not keep them from the kingdom if their hearts desire truth. Rejoice in your security, and trust God with your children and your parents and friends. Let him lead you step by step, even allowing him to lead you away from that contemporary issues class if that time should come! But don't run ahead of God, making yourself anxious with the "how's" and "what if's"! He is sovereign; he is in control; he has us all in his hand. Nothing can snatch you out of his hand! You are his. I'll be praying for you, too! Colleen | ||
| Lee (Lee) |
Thank you all for the encouragement. I'm finding every day is a little easier, though I continually have to remind myself that God will lead me out. My inclination is to still try to do things "my" way instead of waiting on the Lord and following his leading. Old habits die hard. At one moment I feel secure and then the next I question. I had never considered that my parents did not need to know of my decision. But it does seem to make sense to just not make tham aware of the change in my thinking. If I only share my new found love for Jesus with them how could they be dissappointed? My adult children are just starting their careers one a pastor the other a teacher. It was a dream come true to see them choose to work for the church...now it seems more like a nightmare. I love them and am very proud of their success. Only now I pray they will begin to see the truth about the "true" church. My wife is not on the same page in all this. While she does have many doubts, she is unmoved, especially on the Sabbath. I will not push. God give me patience...and hurry up about it!! We both are friends of Richard Fredericks and he had a great influence in beginning my new life. We have visited DRCC on several occasions. Thank God for the courageous leaders who are willing to follow Christ at all cost. For quite some time I was of the belief that I could change my local church from the inside and it would become a more Gospel oriented place to worship. I thought then I'd be able to endure the rest of it. Instead it just makes church a battlefield. I'm sure I'm heading in the right way, but I'm haunted by doubts. Those who know me keep reminding me that the very elect would be decieved(an effective tactic that I always used so well). Pray for me...thanks Lee | ||
| Dennis (Dennis) |
Lee, A hearty welcome to this forum. I too have been greatly inspired and blessed by the ministry of Richard Fredericks in Maryland (even though I live in Nebraska). Several years ago, while doing some research online, I downloaded his study on the Sabbath. After only a few minutes of studying the outline, the Holy Spirit boldly impressed me with the wonderful truth that Jesus is indeed our True Sabbath Rest--the reality of the shadow (see Col. 2:16,17). Without immediately informing my wife, I knew I had become a FORMER Sabbatarian. After more than forty, devout years in SDA legalism, the simple truth of the Gospel had reached my heart. Yes, Adventism is incredibly complex. Most Adventists have a very limited understanding of their church's doctrines, policies, organizational structure, denominational history, et cetera. Yes, I too once foolishly entertained the notion that I could assist in the reform of Seventh-day Adventism in some way. I soon came to the stark realization that the heart of Adventist dogma is not worthy of amending, saving, or propagating. Of this I am most certain, Adventism does not have a valid, Biblical reason to exist in the first place. As my wife and I continued to study and pray for light, the Adventist biggies (e.g., the legal Sabbath, the uncertain state of the dead, the investigative judgment, Ellenology, etc.) soon fell out of the puzzle because they did not correlate with basic Christian beliefs. Today, my wife and I are delighted with our new church family at the First Evangelical Free Church here in Lincoln, Nebraska. By the way, October 16,2002 will mark our second anniversary since we had our names removed from the SDA membership roster. Sylvia and I refer to that date as our Freedom Day from doctrinal and monetary abuse. It certainly was not easy to admit to our three children that we taught them wrong. Two of our adult children have left Adventism already. Our youngest daughter and her husband regularly attend church with us each Sunday. We are praying that our oldest daughter will leave Adventism soon as well. On the other hand, my Adventist mother-in-law even took us out of her will, so sometimes there is a heavy price for embracing freedom in Christ. As the gospel song says, "I wouldn't take nothin' for my journey now." Again, a warm FAF welcome, Lee! In awe of Calvary, Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Clay (Clay) |
Lee, I understand your uncertainty at times. I also felt that keenly at first. I remembered EGW's statement about" the very last deception will be to make of non-effect the spirit of prophecy".I'm not even sure the quote, and maybe someone on the forum knows it. I used to think about it as I was exiting and then one day I realized 'what better statement could a person make who wanted to be sure their influence remained strong in the church, than to put that kind of fear into people. It would almost garentee people would think twice before rejecting their writings. Its a great statement for the leader of a cult to make. I'm not saying Adventism is a cult but it most surely has cultic practices. I also have benefitted from Richard Fredericks. Ten years ago when I started searching for truth and was attending Willow-Creek leadership weekend, I met Richard and was impressed. I invited him out to the church I was pastoring in Alberta to do a weekend. It was a powerful weekend that challenged our thinking and encouraged me to continue my searching. He also has tried to change the Adventist church from within but realized that was impossible. Like the apostles and Jesus, who preached in the Synagogues until they were kicked out, he too found himself outside. Dennis I agree that most Adventists do not understand how complex their denomination is and how trully locked into their doctrines they are. If they (the denominational leaders) change one doctrine, it will affect the viability of EGW and when she is held in question every other doctrine is on shaky grounds. For example, if it was admitted that EGW was not a prophet or did not have the gift of prophecy, they would not be able to hold the doctrine of the Remnant Church because it is dependent on EGW fullfilling the "testimony of Jesus, which is the spirit of prophecy" statement on Rev.19:10. Yes I believe there are SDA churches that are very much gospel centered and evangelical in nature but you can be sure that the pastors in those churches do NOT preach on SDA doctrine. And if they do they only preach the doctrines that SDA's hold in common with other Christians. I know in my experience, the last 5 years of my pastoring I rarely if ever preached on SDA distinct doctrine. I preached on "the gospel of salvation by faith" and general "Christian living" messages. Lee I too will be praying for you in your journey. As the song says "Put your hand in the hand of the man who stilled the water". Jesus will walk with you and be in you as you journey in faith. | ||
| Faith (Faith) |
HI Lee I am sure many "formers" struggle with doubt in one way or another.I especiallly. I has been only six months since we(my husband and I)actually left and though it had been over to years in coming the doubts come creeping back. The thing that really helps me is going back to the scriptures and I can say "Yes, yes this is right this is why I left." I have read the New testement more in the past six months then in the previous 27 years of my life. It is wonderful for the bible to make sense.It is such a joy to read now without the baggage. | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Hi Faith, welcome to the forum...and freedom. Hope you will post often. Clay, I wonder how accurate it would be to say this: if an SDA church is evangelical and gospel centered, then either it's pastor is on the way out the door of the denomination, or the congregation itself is headed toward being kicked out. It just doesn't seem that "evangelical" and "gospel centered" and "not preaching SDA distinct doctrines" and/or "contemporary worship" are all things that open the door for the Holy Spirit to take over, and that, of course, ends up breaking satan's chains. At any rate it would sure make an intersting study to take a look at what happens to the numbers attending when those things are brought in! | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Clay, I'll just go right 'out there' and say I do believe SDA-ism is a cult. It's founded on false doctrines, a false prophet, and a spirit of deception. It proclaims that if you leave it, you're lost. It makes salvation conditional upon proper Sabbath and law observance. It adds to the gospel and puts people into bondage. It "bewitches" people, to use Paul's word in Galatians 3:1. It tears families apart and puts great economic and emotional pressure upon those who belong. Lydell, I agree that probably SDA pastors who teach salvation by grace through faith in Jesus and deliberately do not teach SDA doctrines ae probably on their way out one way or another. I do know of some pastors, however, who do not teach SDA distinctives (at least never in the traditional SDA way) and do preach "grace", but they still maintain emotional loyalty to SDA-ism and guage their words so the denomination can't "get" them and those listening think they're "evangelical". I don't think all of those are on their way out. Sometimes, I think, they have weighed the consequences and decided that staying is more comfortable than leaving. Their sermons are confusing and misleading, and while the congregants might hear Biblical words, they are not really seeing Jesus. Those, however, who believe that Jesus and his grace must be primary will probably have to face the decision of whether or not to leave. Faith and Lee, those doubts are absolutely an inevitable part of leaving. I can remember being gripped by paralyzing fear that I was deceiving myself and losing my salvation. The answer, as you've found, Faith, is continual Bible study and prayer. The Holy Spirit is stronger than Satan's doubts, and He will confirm the truth in your hearts. I really praise Him for being faithful to complete the work he begins in us! Colleen | ||
| Derrell (Derrell) |
Hi Everyone, Just want to let you know what a source of strength and encouragement all of you have been. I grew up in the SDA church, and my wife and I are part of an SDA television organization. I have tried to pretend that the inconsistencies don't exist, or that the carefully crafted answers are sufficient, but I am tired of this house of cards. I still attend church, and am uncertain about Sabbath, but I no longer subscribe to the dietary, music, jewelry, remnant church, sanctuary, and various other doctrines that I have determined to my satisfaction are not true, and I no longer believe E.G. White. All of this started recently when I met Jesus and was saved. I found that the Gospel and a large portion of SDA doctrine are incompatible. Well, I love you guys and appreciate your understanding. Derrell | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Derrell, welcome to the forum! We are happy to have you here, and we TOTALLY understand your uncertainties, disillusionment, and joy in Jesus. Meeting Jesus changes everything, doesn't it?! You can be certain he will continue to unfold his love and the truths of scripture before your eyes. Do not be surprised when waves of doubt wash over you and cold fingers of fear make you ask yourself if you've bought into a deception. (Remember EGW's "prophecies" about the brightest lights going out and the last great deception would be making her words 'of none effect'?) Just KNOW, at those times, that you can pray and turn to Jesus' words in scripture and find reassurance. The Holy Spirit will witness to your spirit the truth about Jesus and the security of your salvation. Please feel free to call on us forum members when you need prayer or special encouragement. Even though there will be hurdles in the future, still absolutely nothing can rob you of your joy. Meeting Jesus and loving him, experiencing his personal love for you and the certainty of your salvationóthese things far outweigh the difficulties of walking out of darkness and embracing the light. Being immersed, as you said, in an Adventist organization, the contrast between your experience in Jesus and the facades and deceptions that (I know) go on behind the scenes at work will be in stark relief. Seeing as you now do from a completely new reality will sometimes make your environment seem crazy. No matter what happens, keep you eyes on Jesus and your heart in his word. And, as our cyber-friend Lydell so often reminds us, listen to praise music as often as you can. I cannot explain how it works (except it is a work of the Holy Spirit!), but keeping worship music on keeps your heart praising and your mind more focussed on him. I've often found myself thawing out of anxiety or discouragement or just plain "overwhelm" when I listen to (and sing with!) praise music. Please know we will be praying for you. We look forward to hearing more from you! In Jesus, Colleen | ||
| Loneviking (Loneviking) |
Ditto on what Colleen said, and especially remember that the Bible was written to be understood. You CAN understand what is written without having to have a 'guide' such as EGW to understand the Word. Read the Bible and accept it as it is written, not as you think it should be. You can trust God and His Word to reveal the real truth to you! Bill S. | ||
| Janet (Janet) |
Welcome Derrell! So glad to hear about your encounter with Jesus. I know it made all the difference in my life! I will be keeping you and your family in prayer. Feel free to chat with anyone here, they have really been a help to me! God bless you, Janet |
