| Author | Message | ||
| Steve_R (Steve_R) |
Greetings, Lately I've been in discussions with my family who still clings to SDAism, and although they haven't presented this question to me yet, I'm sure there are others who have heard it. I'm curious as to everybody's take on this, so all opinions are welcomed and appreciated. I firmly believe that Jesus is our true Sabbath rest, but I suspect I'll soon be questioned about why Jesus was in the tomb on the 7th day. Of course the expected adventist response would be that he had to rest on the Sabbath, but I don't buy that for a minute. I'm just curious how to treat this subject for future reference. Thank you in advance. Steve | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
Steve, I have a viewpoint about this. It is not as Biblical as you probably need for these people. The idea comes from New Covenant theology and symbolism that, I believe, fits the Scriptures. Others may have a better answer. However, I would like to state my opinion, for whatever value you can use from it. First, in a way they certainly would not intend, I agree with them about resting on the Sabbath. I believe it is symbolic of the final Mosaic Sabbath. It is the first half of the transition from the ́ministration of deathî to the ́ministration of the Spiritî that ́gives life.î The second half, the resurrection on the eight/first day is the first and most significant day of the New Covenant. My question to them would be: ́Why do you think Jesus was raised from the dead on the eighth day? Why do you think there were so many scriptures about salvation depending on belief in the resurrection instead of the ërest on the Sabbathí after that time?î Their answer might well be something about starting the new week in an intensified relationship with the ́Law of Godî or some such Gospel diminishing explanation. I have read about a greater emphasis on the death of Jesus as opposed to the resurrection. I believe that they are both important and connected. I believe that one must grasp the importance of the total transition and not disconnect each day, even symbolically. My God grant you the wisdom and insight you need. Jerry | ||
| Clay (Clay) |
As I thought about this I wanted to add my idea's. They are only my thinking. First I would say that Jesus prophecy that he would be crucified and rise on the 3rd day were fullfilled. Jesus knew the future. Because they(Mary, Salome, and the other women)were Jews they did not attempt to see the tomb until the Sabbath was over. Then they came to open the tomb and finish the annointing of Jesus body on Sun. morning. Mark16:1 Luke 24:1 I believe God knew it was necessary for Jesus to come to life before the women came to annoint his body for the final burial. Had there been some very special religious feast or ceremony that would have prevented them from coming to the tomb until Monday am, Jesus may not have come forth until Monday morning. If that had been the case the prophecies would have pointed to a 4th day ressurection rather than a 3rd. Jonah would have been in the belly of the whale for 4 days. Is it possible that there is no significance to Jesus remaining in the grave over the Jewish Sabbath other than to fullfill the prophecy and other than because the women were Jews and would not make any attempt to finish the annointing of Jesus until the Sabbath was over? God knew this in advance and perhaps saw that is was necessary for the ressurection to take place before the women came to do the final annointing of the body for final burial. I know Adventist's make a big deal of Jesus resting in the grave on the Sabbath therefore showing the significance of the Sabbath. That almost makes Jesus ressurection not as important as his resting in the grave. For me the ressurection of Jesus was far more significant than the time he spent in the grave and had he not ressurected until Monday, that would not make Sunday any more significant. While Jesus walked among the people, he continually blasted the religious leaders out of their rigid legalism by doing good deeds on the Sabbath. What better work could Jesus have accomplished then to take his life back on that Sabbath and provide salvation for all mankind. In other words, I believe it was not because of what Jesus believed about the Sabbath that kept him in the tomb until Sunday morning but rather it was because of what his own mother and his Jewish followers believed about the sabbath. As I said these are only my thoughts. Blessings to you as you continue to study. | ||
| Shannono (Shannono) |
Steve, I'm certainly no theologian, but I'm also not former SDA, which I think gives me a different perspective on what Adventism teaches -- because I've heard the REAL truth all my life instead.  My answer to those who say that Jesus "rested" in the tomb on the Sabbath is this: Jesus didn't spend that Sabbath resting. He was suffering in Hell for our salvation, securing God's victory over death. I wouldn't begin to call a day in Hell "resting," not by any means. My prayers are with you and your family. Shannon | ||
| Freeatlast (Freeatlast) |
Shannon, with all due respect to your position, I must ask how you get your postion to harmonize with Scriptures such as Jesus proclaiming "it is finished" and "Father into YOUR hands I commit my Spirit" (not "Satan, into your and your minions hands I commit my spirit"). I assure you, I mean no offense, I'm genuinely curious about how that doctrine is taught and how harmony is achieved in view of the above texts. I have been told by some scholars I trust that it is important to understand that the work of atonement was completed ON THE CROSS, and nothing more was necessary. I am presently investigating these doctrines for myself in light of SDA's teaching that atonement was not complete at the cross. It is important to me to come to my own undersanding from Scripture and any assistance or resources you could provide would be appreciated. Thank you for your reply. | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
Shannon may be referring to Acts 2:27-31. The problem with this verse, in most translations, is that there is another credible choice of words based on the various definitions and the contextual reference to corruption (decay of the body). The word hades in the Greek of the time did mean ́hell,î but it also meant ́deathî or ́grave.î Shannon, if you were basing your statement on that passage, please consider that. | ||
| Freeatlast (Freeatlast) |
Yes Jerry, I have studied "hades" briefly and am familiar with the differences in language usage to a certain extent. I will look further into this, thank you so much for your thoughts! Shannon, I would definitely appreciate any additional references and thoughts you may have on this topic. | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Hi Jerry, I've heard the same thing from others regarding Jesus descending to hell. It is pointed out to me in 1 Peter 3:18-20 for one. There is another referrence somewhere but I forget off hand what was pointed out to me. Anyhow, if that's any help at all, let me know what you think of 1 Peter chapter 3:18-20. Anyone know much about this teaching? Colleen? Doug? Sabra? ANYONE? So many are now teaching it as Shannon is that I'd really like to have some hard evidence either to the contrary or if it is true, this is strangely new to me. Although I've heard it before, about two years ago, I suppose it didn't really set in my memory. Who knows. Any answers or thoughts would be great though. Thanks and Peace. Denise | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Shannon, If you are referring to 1 Peter 3:18-20, it does not say Jesus Christ was suffering at all. It talks about Him preaching to the spirits in prison. Really would like to hear more on how you see this. Peace to you. Denise Gilmore | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
I've heard all sorts of explanations for the 1 Peter text which is, in the opinion of the translators of the NIV, open to two or three different interpretations. It is vague, and I don't think we can use it to form a doctrine. There's no other text to specifically support a doctrine that Jesus went to hell. In fact, Revelation says that the lake of fire is reserved for the devil and his angels, and that is also where the false prophet and the beast are thrown as well as unbelievers after the Great White Throne judgment. I've heard our pastor say with extreme emphasis that Jesus DID NOT go to hell. Hell is the place of eternal suffering and is the place where unrepentant sinners go. On the other hand, the Bible does refer to Hades, or the place of the dead, and it seems to suggest that the wicked dead to to a waiting place that is other than hell (the place of final, eternal judgment where the wicked go after the great white throne judgment) until the last resurrection when the wicked are raised to face judgment. The text in 1 Peter is enigmatic, but the translators suggest three possible intepretations that theologians have suggested in the NIV study Bible: 1. Jesus, in his pre-incarnate state, preached through Noah during the building of the ark; 2. Between his death and resurrection, Jesus went to the prison where satans angels are incarcerated and preached to those who are said to have married human women during the time of Noah. If this interpretation is true, the message he preached may have been a declaration of victory. 3. Between his death and resurrection, Jesus went to the place of the dead and preached to the spirits of Noah's contemporaries, again declaring victory for Christ and doom for his hearers. Whether any of these interpretations is exactly correct or not is somewhat speculative; the verse doesn't give us much information! I believe it's safe to say Jesus suffered the fatal, unbelievable, agonizing separation from God that the sins of the entire world caused. He did not merely suffer this agony with the intensity of a single sinner; he suffered the accumulated agony of the sins of the world. He had a sinless soul, however; I do not believe he suffered in hell. This verse in 1 Peter suggests that he may have actually done something in the spiritual realm during his death which we are not equipped, in our limited existence, to understand. It seems likely that in some way, he declared his victory in a uniquely powerful way in the spiritual realm. We know that Satan was defeated at the cross; how that may have looked or been communicated during Christ's death we don't know for sure. But according to Peter, something apparently happened! Praise God for Jesus! Colleen | ||
| Freeatlast (Freeatlast) |
Thank you Colleen, I will continue to study this topic. Does anyone have any thoughts on 1 Peter 4:6? It occurs later in the same discussion Peter is having above, and seems to be referring to the subject of preaching in another sphere of some sort. I haven't a clue, I'm still getting my hands around the idea that maybe soul sleep isn't all it was cracked up to be. Jesus in Hell? Preaching to the dead? I must say, I'm a bit overwhelmed by it all... |
