| Author | Message | ||
| Gatororeo7 (Gatororeo7) |
Hey everybody! It's been awhile since I've posted and I just want to let you all know that things are going well here in Gator Country. I have a question to pose to you all. My mother-in-law is planning a trip to visit us at the end of next month, and my wife and I both know that she'll be bringing with her her "SDA evangelism" for me. Now, my wife is completely split from SDA with the exception of removing her name from the membership, and she hasnt told any of her family yet, for fear of rejection. In addition, she fears for me, because if she tells her mom that shes no longer SDA, she'll know that its cause of what I've shown her from the Word, which is true. But as all of you who were SDA know, the real TRUTH is not SDA "truth" so now were both "deceived". She wants to go to church on the Sabbath and such, and Sara plans to basically appease her and go, but I have serious reservations. I'm thinking in light of Rom 14 saying that each man should be convinced in his own mind, and noit to do anything that would cause a brother to stumble, but honestly, does that apply in this case? Have any of you experienced this? can you share what happened and what you learned from it? it would help ease my heart a lot. Thanks Joel | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
Hi, Joel. I am a little unclear on a few things. When you speak about her ìSDA evangelism,î what are you thinking she will likely do? Are you saying she aggressively tries to persuade you? Does she just passively drop little indirect ìitemsî into the conversation so she can claim that she is not trying to persuade you? Is this based on past behavior? Does she likely think that you are open to persuasion? When you speak of your reservations, about what are you speaking? Are you suggesting you might need to tell your wife not to go? Does your mother-in-law think that you will go to Sabbath services? Is the decision about whether you should appease her by going? Just curious and ìconfused.î <;)> Jerry | ||
| Dennis (Dennis) |
Joel, My suggestion is for you and your wife to kindly inform your mother-in-law of your new paradigm of faith (biblical Christianity) even before her arrival at your house. Hopefully, she will not disown you like my mother-in-law did. My wife and I are even excluded from her will (my wife is the only child). There is no need to attend Sabbath services with her as your house guest. However, when visiting HER home, it would be polite, respectful, and thoughtful for you both to attend church with her. This will clearly show that your family units are now separate and special. In regard to wills, Ellen White's writings clearly encourage parents to JUDGE their children to determine if they are heavenbound. If not, the parents are encouraged to exclude them from the family will. The children might buy something with the money that Adventism cannot condone. Therefore, they claim, the parents could even lose their salvation or receive lesser eternal rewards by not being good stewards of their money. The investigative judgment would consider such shortcomings in their legacy after death. If this sounds awful and unchristian, you are right--IT IS! Sincerely in Christ, Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Carol_2 (Carol_2) |
ok everyone, don't get mad or throw anything at me, but joel, i think you should just leave it be if that's what your wife wants. it took me about four months after leaving the church before i could tell my mother and family. i was just not ready until that time. let your wife pray and seek God's will, or course, but if she is not yet ready to tell them, and she wants to attend church with her mother to appease her, let her. we are all different, some bold and aggressive, some of us are sensitive, hesitant, anxious, you understand i'm sure. i think you should let her do what she's comfortable with. God will bring her to where He wants her. He did with me. anyway, my two cents! love and prayers Carol | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
Mad at you? Throw things? Not a chance! I asked the questions in order to see if Joel would elaborate on his assumptions. There are two conflicting objectives here: First, an objective is the one Carol addressed, which is family peace. Avoiding an unneeded confrontation should be a very important strategy. Second, an important objective is personal integrity. In my case, I have chosen not to go to any Adventist religious service. Whenever I am asked by one of my wifeís friends or relatives about why I am not going, I simply say, ìI have chosen not to go.î Usually, they have not pursued it since they think that I am ìlost.î Once, someone went on to ask, ìWhy have you chosen to stay away from God?î To which I replied, ìThat is not the choice I have made. Please respect my choice not to attend your church.î Peace, Jerry | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
You know, in some dichotomous way I agree with both Dennis and Carol. It took us one year to tell part of our family that we had left, and we lived in the same town. It was as bad as we feared when we told them, but that "badness" was not devastating. I agree with Dennis that telling them before they come is ideal, that attending their church when you visit them makes sense but not attending when they visit you establishes family boundaries. However, if your wife, Joel, is truly fearful, don't push her, or you will become her "enemy". I understand that you have some fear, also, that if she doesn't tell her parents, she may capitulate back into their "thrall" and lose what she has found since studying with you. This is one of those times when you have to completely trust God with the situation. The possible outcomes you envision may not even begin to play themsleves out. Or they might! The factor that you need to trust is that the Holy Spirit can redeem them and use them to cause strength and growth in you, your wife, and even your in-laws. I suggest you pray consistently with you wife before and during the visit. Ask God to direct what you say, to put your words in your mouths, and to give both of you discernment. Ask that truth will be known and that you both will trust God to work out his will in this visit. I know it goes against everything in us, Joel, but you might need to not "plan" what to do. Pray for your wife; pray for your own peace and willingness to release her and her folks to him. Pray that she will clearly see the contrast between what they have and what she has found in the Bible. Pray for protection for your family from evil, and pray that God's Spirit will be in your home and direct everything that is said and done. That being said, I do agree with Dennis's advice in general. However, if your wife is fearful, concentrate instead on supporting her and loving her. She needs to feel that you are a rock right now, not that she needs to protect herself against you as well as against them. Be her ally, not an opposing force pulling on her. I will pray for you both. Colleen | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
My feeling is the same as Carol's, you need to be your wife's ally. And that should be the thing that is uppermost in your mind. Not making an announcement or getting into confrontation, or debunking the SDA error, but supporting and encouraging your wife. You are pretty clear, it sounds, that the mother-in-law is going to be miffed or downright angry no matter when the truth comes out. You know beyond any doubt that the confrontation with her mother will come eventually. There's nothing you can do about the mother-in-law's reaction, and you have already realized that. It sounds as if your wife has not accepted that realization for herself. She will, I'm sure. But no matter when it comes, she is going to be wounded and need you desperately. One thought to consider is that if you went along, then you can more directly address whatever happens later on. But that certainly isn't a necessity. The alternative might be to later ask your wife privately if she sees any change in SDA theology. Are they now preaching righteousness by faith alone without the sabbath, etc.? Just a gentle reminder of the reasons why she is where she is now. Have you had a listening session with your wife? You guys, you martians, tend to start to listen to we wives and then immediately hop in and tell us how the problem should be solved. It works with other guys, but to a woman it can tend to sound like you are demeaning us. We know you don't mean it that way, but it does sound that way sometimes. We, on the other hand, need to talk it out, vent all our emotions on the problem at hand and get the support and encouragement that we can, in fact, handle this, break the news ourselves, and that you will be there for us. | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
As strange as it may seem, Lydell, this ìMartianî enthusiastically agrees with what you said. As much as I dislike sweeping generalizations, I can tell you that I have recently experienced the difference between solving and supporting. Joel: Just to give you a real example from a ìMartianî perspective. In my current situation with the evangelism seminar being held in our house, I have made these choices. 1. I am never going to confront, denounce, or argue with my wife or any attendee about this. 2. I have helped to physically set up the room and will continue to do so. 3. I have always warmly greeted whoever came and will continue to do so. 4. Whenever I am invited to attend, I have simply declined with a smile and no explanation. 5. In the case where my wife was not present, my reports to her have been factual and non-judgmental. (ìI saw this and that person. It lasted so long that time. She said she had no trouble with the equipment.î Etc.) 6. My discussions with her before and after the meetings have stayed away from the meetings and stayed with our relationship. I find the material highly offensive to my beliefs. I wish I could stop it, but I am leaving that to God. In short, support your wife, let her decide how she will handle things. | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Alright Jerry! so glad the Martian is trying to understand the Venusian. ha Still, I know it has got to be a huge irritant to you to have the garbage being presented. You know, I'm thinking that if this IS actually all for your benefit, they are going to quickly get tired of it when they see you aren't playing the game and they'll go their way. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Lydell, thank you for describing a "listening session." You are so right in your explanation of what we women need and of how immediate "problem solving" often is counter-productive because our emotions need understanding more than our cirucmstances need altering. By the way, you guys, Richard has discovered a great way to do this kind of listening. He walks with me every evening. If we try to talk at home, there is often some kind of distraction that prevents a discussion from really being completed. When we walk, however, there's nothing else to do but talk and listen. It's great! Even Richard likes it, because I listen to him as well. I highly recommend it. It's amazing what a half hour a day can do to make a woman feel really understood and HEARD! Keep us posted, Joel! Colleen | ||
| Steve_R (Steve_R) |
Greetings all, Since I saw the topic of this discussion, I thought it fit in perfectly with what's been going on in my family recently. Some people may remember my firsts post some time ago, and how I talked about my parents who are teachers for the sda school system. Anyhow, while they are still involved in that, my mother, bless her heart, recently called me and as usual expressed her concerns that we've probably all heard. After she got through that, I simply told her that I've found that things aren't as hard and difficult as I once envisioned them, that really it's amazingly simple if a person will look at it with the mind of a child and not try to add anything to what the Bible says. Here's the surprise: She then told me that while she's lived as an adventist her whole life, she wants to "know if what I believe is right or not, I don't want to be involved in anything that is wrong." So after that we've had some more discussions and I think she's giving a very fair and open minded examination of the sda theology vs. true Biblical Christianity. It's been a long time in coming, but I do believe she's rounding a corner here and knowing my mother, she wouldn't do this unless she was very sincere and wanting to really learn. My only argument to her all along as been that truth is truth, so if you believe adventism is correct, why be afraid to test it thoroughly? so praise God for working on her heart and mind, it feels wonderful to see her willingness which has always been the biggest hurdle. I appreciate all the comments everyone makes even if I don't join into every discussion, I do follow along and enjoy the true Christian spirit on display by all. Please keep my parents in your prayers as they are starting to have their eyes opened bit by bit. On a side note, I was speaking to my father that same day and he was complaining about their church(nothing new there), and he was complaining about how the school had some non-sda teachers, which frankly shocked me, but they apparently are trying to snag non-adventist children in an attempt to convert them at a young age(more like entrap). So he says "It'll never work! if they want adventist ideals, they need all adventists in the teaching positions, but you can't reach out to the non-adventists that way, they'll scream 'Cult! Cult! Cult!' until they are blue in the face." Upon hearing that, I could really tell that he's starting to have some doubts creep into his mind with how he sees things and the inner workings between school and church in their area. It's kind of harsh, and I don't mean this in any sort of a flippant manner, but when I heard that cult comment from my father, all I could think was 'yeah, and those people screeching Cult might be on to something' but I didn't tell him that, it would just likely send his blood pressure through the roof. Ok, I think I've typed enough for one post. I really got going there. Thanks for a family related topic, such great timing for it in my situation, that's for sure. Steve | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Steve, that's wonderful!! Looks like you've really been a light to your mother. Keep up the good work and keep us updated. Sabra | ||
| Janet (Janet) |
Thats awesome, Steve! I continue to keep your family in my prayers. Janet | ||
| Faith (Faith) |
Hello all, While I have been reading things here since about March I have not actually posted. I have greatly appreciated the discussions and the archives. I and My husband are formers and have been for about six months. The things we have learned and the changing and growing have spanned out over the last 2-3 years. I have started in this thread because It is about deaing with family. Basically since we have been attending a non Adventist church my family, pretty much ingores this aspect of us. They won't ask us questions at all.I know they discuss among themselves (my parents,grandparenst,aunt and uncles, and siblings) what we are doing but I would have thought they would at least try to understand to persuade us how wrong we are to dismiss Ellen White and the doctrines that they hold so dear.I am glad to not be having strife with them but something just doesn't seem right. I really want to start conversing with some of them about what they believe but .... I am not sure what to do... leave it alone for now? | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Welcome, Faith! We're glad to have you here! I suggest that you ask God to direct your talking with your family. Ask him to provide clear opportunities if it is His will that you speak, and ask him to help you know what to say and when to say it. Without knowing the dynamics of your family, it's hard to be more specfic. Will they eventually ask you questions? Do they normally wait for you to speak? It is amazing how God provides moments of clarity and words of truth when we trust these issues to him! I really don't mean this in a passive way; I really do mean that you can literally ask God to direct the conversation while you are with them, etc. Ask Him to help you love them for him and to minister to them through you. You don't have to know exactly how or what to do; but He does, and he will work through you. You may find that you feel compelled to tell them what you're discovering, to tell them about you new joy in Jesus. It's always hard for people to argue with your personal experiences! Praying for you, Colleen | ||
| Carol_2 (Carol_2) |
welcome Faith! i know, sort of, what you mean. when i first left i expected to be bombarded with arguments, concerns, etc., and it was strangely silent. i was relieved, because i didn't feel ready to "argue" with anyone, however, after some time passed, and i began to feel more comfortable discussing issues, they are still strangely silent! they don't seem to want to discuss the issues, and my personal theory/opinion is that they just don't know truly how to defend their own beliefs (at least i think that's the case with my family & friends.) i know when i was active sda, i didn't know how to defend anything i supposedly believed. that may be too simple, but might be a part of it. nevertheless, welcome again! God bless you and your husband in this journey. love and prayers to all, carol | ||
| Janet (Janet) |
Welcome Faith! Glad you are here. This forum has been such a helpful place for me to start putting things in perspective. I pray that God will continue to lead you and your family. God bless, Janet | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
Help!! I would appriciate your prayers, especially for my imediate sanity so I don't totally nut out in about five seconds. My cousin was here for the weekend, well, not here but actually next door at my mothers house. Several months ago I told her I have been attending The local Lutheran (ELCA) Church. Before that I had told my mom. Now, suddenly she has been prostilziing at me in such a subtle (HA!) way that I'm about to scream. Now I hear such things as, "we were told that those who know the truth would in the end times turn away from it", and another one, "we have the prophecy of the knowledge of the end time mark of knowing who will be lost and I know the Lutheran Church is the closest to the Catholic church there is" (that one really got under my skin!), well, these sort of comments just kept coming and coming so since we were in the car and I couldn't escape I just put my head against the window and let myself doze off while in a state of prayer asking God to help me endour this. It's crazy! I KNOW she doesn't prostilize to our other cousin who has turned atheist. But, me who has found a great body of Believers to worship with and fellowship with, I GET IT! I heard so much about "these end times" and how we have to be "ready for the end to come". I finilly told her I am ready for the end to come because just two months ago my daddy died and I was with him when his end came and I too am ready for my end. She just looked at me and said, "You KNOW what I mean". Yes, I do know what she ment as we both were raised SDA. AAAAAGH! | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Susan, I will pray for God to grant you peace through all the tirades. These sorts of things are inevitable when we stand for Jesus against the pleas and manipulation of those who don't understand. You know what? It's OK that you cannot please your mom, even though her approval and pleasure is what would feel the best to you. I'll pray that you will be able to love her for Jesusó-not for your sake or even for hers, but for Jesus. Just remember that when we follow Jesus, we take the arrows for him. His strength is made perfect in our weakness. With prayers for your peace and courage, Colleen | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Susan 2, I don't know if the rest would agree with what I have to say. And you'd surely have to weigh this out with the Spirit as guide. But it seems to me that the more you keep silent, the more likely your cousin is going to continue getting her jollies by making jabs. So maybe to the "we have been told in the end times folks would turn away from the truth" you could quietly reply, "that's why I feel so blessed to know that my salvation is secure because I have received Jesus as my Savior." Or the remarks about the endtime mark, "I treasure the promise of Jesus that 'I will NEVER leave you nor forsake you' so I'm not afraid of the endtime." And to the "you KNOW what I mean", "yes I do, but the scriptures don't agree with what you say." Always replying with something from scripture and flatly refusing to get into their "the Catholic church did this" or "sister white says". Two or three responses by you constitutes an argument. But, hey, one response qualifies as "conversation". On the other hand, maybe I'm just feeling rebellious! haha Praying for your peace! |
