| Author | Message | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
The reason there's no archive of the TEST section is that it doesn't have one! It was designed for people to test their passwords, so it doesn't have archiving built into it. I started this thread so the conversation there could continue here! Colleen | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
I went to that paranoid website. Unfortunately there seems to be one (purist, nut case, keeping the unadulterated SDA message, etc) in every church, as least until they get kicked out. Why is it SDA attract (create) such paranoid lunatics? Those rantings cannot be from God. There is a spirit of suspicion and fear there. If this person were trusting in God (for example, if God wanted to preserve the old ways of Adventism -he would) he wouldn't be flipping out so badly. I saw a huge lack of trust in his writings. And when he tried to defend the law, he left out many, many key texts- he never spoke about the Law's true purpose and how it is referred to in the NT, as the ministration of death, something that is fading, etc. I don't understand how people can miss whole chapters in the Bible! Really a sad site. Any religion that bases it's theology on hating another religion has a problem. I think it is not for us to hate anyone, God will work it all out. All we need to do is trust and stay in the word, we don't have to know the future or warn people about taking the mark of the beast. (God will not let his people take the mark of the beast, it is a lack of faith thinking that SDA have the duty to warn people not to take it, if you are right with God, YOU WON'T ACCIDENTALLY TAKE IT!) I think that is why God put Revelation at the back of the Bible, unless you have a relationship with Jesus Christ and know he is your savior and trust him, you have no business trying to figure out Revelation. I don't know how the time of trouble will play out but I am willing to bet that it won't be so predictible. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
And didn't you love the Health button with its vegan recipes and, (why should I be suprised?) pricey food supplements to cleanse the colon and boost the immune syswtem? I especially liked the "anti-plague kit" with the copy suggesting people needn't fear anthrax because God's given us this great built-in arsenal called the "immune system" which, of course, we can strengthen by buying their products! Colleen | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
Pheeki, I am so in line with you, not to say I don't agree with others who post here but you seem to just think about things the same way I think. I am in a Bible study of Ephesians and I can just not understand how you can read it and not know beyond a shadow of a doubt that when we accept the fact that God wants us to be His children and because He loved us so much that He worked out a plan so wonderful that we don't have to lift a finger to get it, and they say nothing is free. Maybe that's the problem; SDA's are just too suspicious of anyone giving them anything but what they haven't come to terms with is God is not just anyone. I think they have Him in a box. I know that one of the problems with my son-in-law is that he does not understand true love because he didn't experience it in His childhood and in the begining of their courtship I worried about it, but he said he was a christian and I felt like I could give him a home and show him the kind of love a family has and I did and he accepted it. But one day when someone came along with a sure way to not come under the wrath of God or whatever they told him he took the apple and ate it core and all. It was really when he would no longer accept the love his wife had or the home he had come to know and love that this happened. I would say someone will have to pay for that some day, I'm glad I can say with a clear consciene that all I ever did I did for my son-in-law not because I thought I needed to but because I had accepted him as my own child and when I see my own children running in the street and they do not stop when a car is coming and I snatch them out of the way just in time to save them I chastize them for not listening to me and if the whole world thinks I am not showing love by doing that I will still continue to do it. Why? Because as a Mother it is my God given duty and as a Follower of Jesus Christ it is my Christian duty according to Gal. 6:1 to restore one who is overtaken in fault. Many other books of the Bible Romans, Galatians, Hebrews, and 1 & 2 Corinthians especially chapter 3 of 2 Cor. are such a joy to read and I feel such a closeness to God just like my Father and have you ever heard SDA's speak of their Abba Father or is that too ireverant. He is my daddy and I can appreciate it so much more in those terms because I remember the years in my home and how when there was a storm if my daddy was home I was OK but if he was gone I was frieghtend, just so happens the day our farm was hit by a tornado my daddy was not at home but my Big Daddy did a good job of taking care of my Mom,little brother,myself and my oldest brother who was outside at the time and held on to the rafters of the chicken house as it blew away with him. Just one more thing does anyone ever feel like I, that some of this is just a matter of common sense or are we not to have that concept as Christians. Doesn't it fall into the category of common sense that if God is our Father that He being so much greater than we, would not want us to suffer and how many of you would say OK that's it your not coming to this house anymore until you get your act together and you do everthing that I tell you to do(speaking of your own children). I have one child who has seasoned me well and there have been times when I have thrown up my hands but I have always loved him and always wanted him to be near me. I have a God like that and MORE. Can't wait to see Him, Carol | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
Once again Carol, we are on the same wave length. I did not have a loving father so I turned to my father in heaven. Whenever I think of him, I do think of him as my father. That is where my many blessings have come from, my father. See, we are not slaves, we are free our home is above with our father, we are sons and daughters of the most high God. But the devil likes to make us think we aren't worthy of this and I think some don't realize what an inheritance we are going to get. God has had his hand on me since before I was born and took pity on me being an orphan, illigitimate and unwanted. I know he has given me everything I have and therefore I can be very bold and approach him with confidence, not with a spirit of fear or distrust. That is why I am not worried about the time of trouble. My mother in law told me when I had children that I had to be prepared to lay down the lives of my children in the time of trouble (for the Sabbath) I always lived in fear I could not do that. But then I asked myself, would my father ask me to do that? He stayed Abraham's hand when he was going to lay down the life of his son, he will do the same for me becasue I belive he will. Not only that but he prospered those he loved like Abraham and David in many ways, family, livestock, etc. I know he will bless me too. I just left an SDA funeral, the pastor was his usual cutesy self, it is always a show for him. He was pretty flippant about the whole thing. He read some texts about death (fortunately not the Ecclesiastes one) and at the end they played a song by Bochelli (opera) that was quite lovely, everyone was moved to tears, this song meant a lot to the wife of the deceased. when it was over he goes "that was for those of you who speak Italian." chuckle chuckle. I wanted to slap him. We didn't have to speak Italian to be moved by that song. Just an example of the irreverency he displays on a regular basis. He read a text I think from Romans that said the dead would hear Gods voice and be raised. Which is it? A trumpet or God's voice? Could it be when we die God calls us and we awake and go to be with him? I am confused now. | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
Carol, yes, I too, have a child who has weathered me. It finilly got to the point awhile back that I got a restraining order out on him and he no longer is allowed on any of my property. We visit, but not at my house. It's been many years since ,my friends started telling me I should get a restraining order out on him but being a mother I was always ready to give him one more chance. I think it is almost impossible to be a SDA and fully believe and accept much of the N.T., especially the books you mentioned above. One more thing, who on here is from in the Orange County area? Please let me know. | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
Pheeki, your second paragraph made me think of the New Zealand couple who let their baby die because it just needed some slight medical care and they were SDA. I don't know if this is a new thing starting with SDA or if it is just this couples own idea but neverless I said the same thing you did about Abraham and if these people were doing the will of God like they said they were then that baby would still be alive. I would imagine it was their way of saying they totally trust God and that's all well and good to a point and the point is don't be stupid, if a car is coming get out of the way don't just say I'm trusting in God, use the brains and resources He has given us to have an abundant Life which starts with resting in what He did for us not what we do for Him. 1 John 4:10 This is love, not that we loved Him , but that He loved us and sent His Son to be propititation for our sins. And because of that 1 John 4:19 We love Him, because He first loved us. And there again you have the parent/child relationship. Do we come into this world loving our parents? Again use your common sense and all the paragraph and sentence structure that you know to try and decipher what this Bible is telling you. If you do not have a good understanding of english with respect to paragraph and sentence structure then ask God that He would put someone in your life that can help you and I am here to tell you if you truly ask with the intention of finding out the unbiased truth then you will not be lead to an SDA. God made the plan of salvation easy enough for a child to understand and God forbide that anyone should tamper with such a plan. I do not see how anyone can believe that Investigative Judgment is something a child can understand and someone correct me if I am wrong but you would have to understand it to understand SDA'S explanation of the their gospel. I say this knowing that D. R. asked repeatedly for a way to come up with 1844 from Daniel 8 or whatever it is and was told EGW did it and she thought she got it right from scripture. I work as a child care provider and one think that we are constantly reminded to do is use positive direction rather than negative and I guess that is why SDA goes so against my grain because I am a teacher at heart and this is not the way to teach. I told my son-in-law that you must teach God's wonderful love and grace before you can even attempt to try and tell a person in what manner they should live,but I said to him you were taught all the do's and don'ts before you knew the love and a cart can't go anywhere in front of the horse. Susan 2 while I have not been in that much distress with my son I can say as I'm sure you do because I heard the concern in your post when you talked of his bruises, that you still love him and you now know that this is the best for him and I am sure you are praying for him as I pray for you and him, as I also pray for my son-in-law who has given my daughter so much grief. The bottom line is I want an abundant life for him and it is not the abundant life EGW talked of when she said she thought what He(Jesus) was referring to was a healthy lifestyle-give me a break. I am not concerned that he will not go to heaven because as much as God has instructed us to keep on keeping on he has heard the truth and someday it will kick in, it may be just as he enters the gate but it will happen. I only pray he could realize that could start right now. I had some more things to say but I need to go to a bored meeting(oops). The one thing I have to say I hate about church. Later unless, He comes, Carol | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
Yes, your spelling of "bored" pretty much says it loud and clear! LOL | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Pheeki and Carol, I love what you said about God being our Father. One of the things I've been growing into is thinking of his Fatherhood to me in terms of intimacy instead of just benevolent distance. I'll never forget how startled I was a couple of years ago when the dean of students at our school (he had spent quite a bit of time working with juvenile offenders after a really rough teen-aged period of his own), who really is born again, prayed in a faculty meeting and began his prayer, "Dad, we want to thank youÖ" A few weeks ago Elizabeth Inrig said to the Bible study leaders in our pre-discussion briefing, "We need to make a point of addressing God as 'Father' instead of 'God' when we talk to him." She went on to say that the great privilege of being Christ-followers is that God literally adopts us into his family, and he is our Father, our Abba, and Daddy. That is a concept Adventists do not stress. But then, I don't believe they can. They do not have the assurance of being saved. How can they see the Father as intimate and surpassingly loving? Isn't it a remarkable privilege, to be the daughter (or son!) of God the Father?! Colleen | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
I just went to the web address Steve R gave, and I realize my post above must have made no sense to anyone! You're right, that is a really reactionary historic Adventist site. The site I visited I found by doing a Google search for Eternal Gospel, and that brought up a reactionary conservative Adventist site, too. It's the Eternal Gospel site that has the Health button and the anti-plague kit. Has anyone else gone through a period of acute embarassment realizing how bizarre our church, which we really loved, must have looked to outsiders? Wow, I was really good at splitting off the "offshoots" and "radical fringe" in my head and believing true Adventism wasn't like that! Colleen | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
At the local SDA church I often attend whenever my mother wants to go they ALWAYS say, "Father God, ..." and then continue with the prayer. THe teenagers lead out the worship service song service and they, too use those words in prayer. It just strikes me as rather odd. I guess I've been attending the Lutheran for so long now that I'm just not accustomed anymore to the pecularness of the SDA. BTW, over at St. John's where I attend the song "Jesus Loves Me' is sung quite often during the main worship service. It is not thought of as a kids song. And, the congreation sings that song with gusto. I love it. | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
Web site; I don't know if I found the site that you all have, but the one I came upon with by going onto to google search for Eternal Gospel brought up something that was very interesting since my son-in-law told my daughter this in effect but when she questioned him about it he said no that was not what he meant. This is what I found aa icon that said pictures and then on this one it said Billboards and upon getting on this page I saw this on a Billboard: SATURDAY the TRUE LORD'S DAY SUNDAY will be enforced as THE MARK OF THE BEAST Anti-Christ Revealed FREE BOOK 1-866-POPE-MMM Has anyone else seen it. I don't think I was on the web site you all were because I did not find the health page. | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
To summarize, the website I saw was a man who won't let just anyone post to debate with him. He said only those that he deems having a fresh idea will he converse with. Isn't that convienient..(said as Dana Carvey's church lady would say). He tried to refute the Law being done away with without quoting Paul at all and wasn't open for discussion on it. Then he devoted a lot of time to the Jesuit infiltration into SDAism causing 'Celebration' (bad word) to spring up in their churches. I really think celebration can only help SDA, worship songs are very spirit filled and frankly the only time I feel the HS at an SDA church has been during praise time (with words on a big screen projector, remember how that was received when that first took place, they thought it was of the devil, words on a screen!) I have yet to see any SDA raise their hands but I know some want to! (maybe they do???) It was a ridiculous website. Colleen, I have gone through many embarassing moments over strange people in the church. My office mate for 3 years had a brother in law who was a member in good standing at the SDA church. He treated his wife horribly .... he wouldn't work but made her pay tithe out of her check (she wasn't really an SDA but attended with him) so he would still look good to the church members. He spent a lot of her money on clothes for him and berated her non-sda (teenage kids) for eating meat and not keeping the sabbath. He made her take off all her jewelry and here is the kicker! He was really a drug dealer! He would tell her that he couldn't get a job because he had to only work for the conference, but he never did work for the conference. He would disappear for several months in search of work in Calif. and was really dealing drugs. She found out about it some how. She told the pastor of the church here in Texas and disgraced him so he won't go back to that SDA church. But do you see the hippocracy here! Trying to make her miserable by driving her kids away b/c they didn't understand or want to be SDA, trying to look pious when he wasn't and wouldn't take care of his wife. I had to try to defend SDAism to my friend knowing there were more just like him. Judgmental about meat, keeping Sabbath while dealing drugs!!!!!! But, the saddest thing is...her family and her were no religion ever. So when my friends mother died they called the SDA pastor to do the funeral, it was the most depressing funeral I have ever attended. SDA funerals are very unhopeful. They go on and on about how the person is sleeping...what do all those non-SDA think about that? Why not think he/she is in heaven with Jesus, even if one scripture says the dead know nothing, why not think the best and have faith? I really don't know what to believe about the state of the dead but I know the SDA will always pick the most pessimistic view, Ellen sure must have been a pessimist! | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
Watch what you write on here about SDA drug dealers because I got called a liar when I wrote about a friend of mine that sold drugs so he could affoed to put his child through SDA school. But, do keep in mind that SDA's as everyone are just human and make mistakes too. Sometimes very serious ones. I hope your friends husband has become more kind to her. We have a lady in this community that is an Historical SDA. I know her quite well. She eats at the community soup line so she won't have to spend more money on groceries. Yet, she spends her money on that "National Sunday Law" book and then leaves them in the laundrymats, the postoffice, etc. I have told her she should spend her money on necessities for herself but she says it's more important to get out the word of the last days so that so many people around here won't be eternally lost. I just think it's sad. She won't even go to the local SDA church because she know the Jesuits are running the church and she won't have any part of it. | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
Susan2- Yes, I read that exchange but forgot about the guy I spoke of above until now. I think he is totally out of the church now but not before he reaked havoc on everyone. My whole point is that SDAism sure attracts some lunies. I really am basing this on experience. I have met more crazy people in Keene, Tx. (SDA stronghold) than anywhere else. And a lot are drug addicts (not practicing church members) but still claim to be SDA- good impression huh? I know the surrounding towns think Keene is a crazy, strange place that no one who isn't SDA feels comfortable living in. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Pheeki, I agree that SDAism does attract troubled people. I have a friend whose brother (and here I'm in trouble because I can't remember exactly what her brother doesópsychologist, or something like that?) was involved at one time in studying the personality profiles of Adventists using standardized personality tests. The results showed that the average SDA personality (at least in this study) paralleled the personality profiles of alcoholicsóstrong addictive tendencies and probably some other in-common neuroses as well. These results lead one to conclude that, with the exception of those who are born into it, perhaps many people join the church because of the rigidity and control it "offers" them. Perhaps many people are attracted to the external rules because they feel internally incapapble of handling their own lives. I suspect the converse may also be true (judging from my own experience which includes both attending and teaching at SDA schools and living in an SDA dorm): growing up Adventist produces many people who are scarred and skewed in ways similar to children of alcoholics or other types of addictive parents. I know what you mean about Adventist ghettos such as Keene. I don't know Keene first-hand, but I have lived in College Place and Loma Linda, and I also lived and taught in the N.Cal. Conference town of Pleasant Hill, CA (not really an SDA ghetto, but still populated with a large sub-community of Adventists). I suspect each has its "flavor" determined both by geoegraphy, demographcis, and the types of SDA professionals who are drawn to that particular town. Loma Linda, for instance, attracts medical professionals while Walla Walla attracts more professor-types and retired church workers. While there is a difference in the "brand" of Adventism in these towns, there is still a strong community presence and a mystique which the "outsiders" cannot penetrate. When I lived in Loma Linda, I was still an Adventist. Even then, the recorded carillon bells playing "Day Is Dying In The West" from the steeple of the Campus Hill Church every Friday at sundown really ANNOYED me in a way I couldn't define then. I'm so thankful that now the Sabbath keeps me! Colleen | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
My cousin is SDA and lives in Keene, Texas.E-mail me and I will send you his name and then you can let me know if you know him. What a small world this huge planet has become! | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
I don't have your email but send it to (removed at Pheeki's request). I probably know him. I lived in college place for a year and I didn't notice quite the assortment of weirdness associated with Keene. Could be southerners are peculiar ;) Me,myself being a southerner too! I think you are right about addictive personalities being drawn into SDAism. No doubt about it. You have to be one of those personalities that do things in extremes, like just quit cheese one day, someone who is not or can't be moderate. I had a friend whose husband went totally coservative to the point of women (his wife) wearing long sleeves, no makeup, no curling of the hair, etc. STrict vegetarianism, made his own bread...turns out he was fighting a porno addiction. He had been spending a lot of time in strip clubs prior to his newest stab at piety. That is the type I see it attracting. Maybe I am wrong? | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
I truly have given this topic a lot of thought and considersation. There are some people who are just not very good at self-disiplin. For them they need very strict boundries of what can and cannot be allowed. I have a 17 year old son who will most likely be sent to a grouphome for a year very soon. He has been in several grouphomes previouselly. He handles himself womderfully in the confined structure of a grouphome. However, when he gets back home and has to use his own self-disiplin, well, it doesn't last long and he's headed back to a very structured environment. This is how controlling religions seem to me. They serve a purpose of keeping certain people in line who otherwise would have little struture to motivate them maintaining honorable actions. Jesus gave us the two greatest commands, "love God and love others as you love yourself". Those two commands take a lot of dedication, prayer and constant thinking things through-to a much greater degree than saying, "o.k., today I will remember to not commit adultry and I will remember to not bear false wittness". Just a thought of mine. | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
I want you all to watch the news tonight. This morning a 15 year old boy held his 9th grade English class hostage with a loaded gun. He intended to commit sucide in front of the class. Several of his classmates wresteled him down and held him until he could be taken away. The school was on lockdown for an hour and then the kids were all sent home. The school is about one mile from my house. Two of my children went to that school. Please, can we all pray that the boy gets the help he so desperatelly eeds. And let's praise our God in thanks that no one was hurt (or worse) during this horrible time. |
