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Archive through January 30, 2003Jerry20 1-30-03  9:26 pm
Archive through February 02, 2003Susan_220 2-02-03  9:32 pm
Archive through February 04, 2003Janice20 2-04-03  3:51 pm
Archive through February 08, 2003Another_Carol20 2-08-03  6:39 pm
Archive through February 11, 2003Susan_220 2-11-03  12:13 am
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Gatororeo7 (Gatororeo7)
Posted on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 5:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Doug,

I use a New Living Translation frequently for personal reading and study, and when I post Scripture on here and other sites I usually quote from there. My understanding is that it is both translation and paraphrase, but I think more along the lines of literal paraphrase, but I think in the grand scheme of Bibles its closer to paraphrase. It keeps true to the original meaning of the languages and puts it into modern English. I like it for its readability and it's straightforwardness. I'd hate to find out that it was designed by some cult group though and I've been subtly reading lies all this time! =)

Joel
Another_Carol (Another_Carol)
Posted on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 9:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joel
Do not fear, God will not allow you to read error and that is the point I was making about getting uptight about translations.

1 John 5:4 everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith.


1 John5:5 Who is he who overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

Now with these verses in mind you are the only one who can say for sure if you in fact do believe that Jesus is God's Son and if you do then these verses will be true for you and God will not allow you to read error.

I have shared about my experience with tapes from SDA and not knowing anything about this religion and I might add at that time not knowing my Bible well, I was given a feeling of unrest and attributed that to the fact I had prayed some 12 years ago before any of this was minutely thought of that God would protect me from evil. I prayed this because of a book that I had read and wanted assurance that God would in fact give me wisdom to know the difference and I am here to witness to the fact HE did.

I was just on a web site a few days ago and a prominent person of Bible study and radio ministry was being bashed and I wanted to read what was being said and the way they were using scripture to attribute false teaching to this person. God would not allow me to read it because I just could not understand. But if I go to my Bible and read with a spirit of understanding what God wants me to understand I am filled to the measure. PRAISE GOD for the way He moves and works in our lives.

So again I would say Lean on the everlasting Arms and you will be safe and secure from all alarm.

Trusting in His peace that passeth understanding, Carol
Doug222 (Doug222)
Posted on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 9:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joel,
Just wanted to say that I recently purchased a New Living Translation and I love it! It makes the Word come so alive. In fact, it was as I was reading it that the Holy Spirit gave me the insight about the book of Ephesians that I shared on a different thread. I think the modern language requires less "interpretation" on my part, and frees my mind to hear the Spirit--especially on passages that are already familiar.

I also bought the Message, by Eugene Peterson. One of the Pastors from my church quotes from it frequently, but I find that I do not care for it as much. It is okay to look at select passages to see how someone else interpreted them, but I do not care for it for devotional reading.

I am not sure if this is progress or regression (I am sure people would differ), but I have gone from being a KJV only person to being sold on the NIV--which I think is still my favorite, to now reading modern translations. I speak only for myself, but I think that when I read the KJV, there was some degree of self-exaltationi involved. In a sense it stroked my ego to be able to say that I didn't need a "dumbed down" version. Its amazing how God humbles us isn't it?

In his Grace

Doug
Pheeki (Pheeki)
Posted on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 11:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Go NIV!!!!! I have had the Living bible for about 10 years and it was the only one I read. It really didn't matter b/c I had blinders on anyway. But now that I don't...I think it talkes too many liberties in translation...he says things that should be left up to us to draw conclusions on...it was written for his children, something I recently found out.

I haven't read the New Living Translation, I will see if I can find one.
Lydell (Lydell)
Posted on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 7:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Pheeki, the Living Bible was not a translation, it was a paraphrase.

Doug, isn't the New Living a translation rather than a paraphrase? I like reading in the Message Bible sometimes too. (That one is a paraphrase too Pheeki.) It is as plain spoken modern English as you can get. So the meaning of some passages just really hit you between the eyes. I love the passage where he is coming down on the Pharisees, you know, the "blind guides" passage. Man, it really gives a strong visual image of what that scene must have been like! ha
Doug222 (Doug222)
Posted on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 8:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow! Lydell I just looked at Matthew 23. It is powerful. For the benefit of those who don't have it (I don't know if it is on line) let me share just one portion of it and then I'll share something that happened to me today.

The religion scholars and Pharisees are competent teachers in God's law. You won't go wrong in following their teachings on Moses. But be careful about following them. They talk a good line, but they don't live it. They don't take it into their hearts and live it out in their behavior. It's all spit-and-polish veneer.

Instead of giving you God's Law as food and drink by which you can banquet on God, they package it in bundles of rules, loading you down like pack animals. They seem to take pleasure in watching you stagger under these loads, and wouldn't think of lifting a finger to help. Their lives are perpetual fashion shows, embroidered prayer shawls one day and flowery prayers the next. They love to sit at the head table at church dinners, basking in the most prominent positions, preening in the radiance of public flattery, receiving honorary degrees, and getting called 'Doctor' and 'Reverand.'

Don't let people put you on a pedestal like that. You all have a single Teacher, and you all are classmates. Don't set people up as experts over your life, letting them tell you what to do. Save that authority for God; Let him tel you what to do. No one else should carry the title 'Father;' you have only one father and he's in heaven. And don't let people maneuver you into taking charge of them. There is only one life-leader for you and them--Christ."


I'll say it again, WOW!! And that was the light stuff. His seven woes really hits the spot. I love it!

Today I was talking to a sister that belongs to a different congregation. I made the mistake of referring to her Pastor by his last name (with no title attached). She was genuinely offended. She immediately corrected me and told me that I should show respect for his position. She said he requires people to address him by title, and wants all the other officers in the church to be addressed as such (i.e. deacon so and so). She couldn't believe when I told her that we refer to both of our Pastors by first name. I offhandedly mentioned this passage to her and she said that she would look it up--of course I was referring to the NIV or KJV, not Eugene Peterson's version.

I am so glad to be relieved of all that pomp and circumstance. Even in the SDA church, titles were important. Every church I went to, we used the title Pastor (although we would never say Rev or Father) and the person's last name. In some "progressive" SDA churches I have heard they refer to their Pastor's as Pastor Dan or Pastor Mike. One SDA church I attended, I became fairly friendly with the Pastor. After several years, he told me that it was okay to call him by his first name in the "proper" settings. I said "okay Pastor."

Anyway, I don't know how I got off on that.

In His Grace

Saint Doug
Lydell (Lydell)
Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 7:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm with you there Doug. We refer to our pastor by his first name also.

He is completely mystified when folks tell him he doesn't look like a pastor. He can't figure out what in the world a pastor is supposed to look like. One day I'm going to explain to him that people are not referring to the way he dresses. (Actually, when my dad died, the pastor showed up at the hospital immediately. He apologized profusely for the way he was dressed....he was wearing a suit. It was creepy!)

Rather it has to do with the way he carries himself. There are those pastors, I'm sure we have all met them, who one could pass on the street and immediately know what they do for a living. It's because they carry themselves with a certain pomposity. It's as if they can't quite bring themselves to step down off that pillar. Geez, how did we get on this from the original thrust of this thread, "once saved always saved"? ha
Doug222 (Doug222)
Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 7:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lydell, lol. Yes, I noticed a while back that we had departed from the original topic. But, this is an interesting new topic. You mentioned the ministers who carry themselves with a "certain pompsity." How about the ones who have a special "preaching voice?" You all know what I am talking about. When I hear that, I have to wonder. Anyway. The games we play, hmmm.

In His Grace

Doug
Another_Carol (Another_Carol)
Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 7:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Doug,

Tell me more about that special "preaching voice". I don't get it.
Carol
Doug222 (Doug222)
Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 8:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Carol,
It is an "air" that some people put on when theystand up to speak. Sometimes they will "boom" their voice, as if they are the "voice of God," sometimes it is aspecial cadence, sometimes there is an attempt to "sound intellectual." We can not judge another's motives, but when I hear it, I always ask, "why can't you just speak normally? Maybe others can describe it better.
Sabra (Sabra)
Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 6:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Paula White???

Have you heard her preach? I like what she has to say but can hardly take the way she preaches. How about Rod Parsley? I do like him though. Bacchiochi calls him a circus clown. I think a lot of seminaries "teach" them to speak theatrically.

I do remember when I was SDA and a Baptist convert came to preach at our church, Tony Mavrakos, he was very loud and different from the mundane monotone I was used to, I liked him. Let's face it, SDA preachers are boring for the most part.
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 7:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've always wondered if can blame those "pulpit address" classes the theology majors have to take in college for the vocal delivery that seems such a trademark of "finely crafted" sermons. Sermons, it seems to me, are quite different from Bible teaching which the pastors at our church usually do.

And I agree about the pastor's "title"; our pastors always go by their first names, doctorates or other degrees notwhithstanding. In fact, if you just met them, you'd have no idea who they were or what they did for a living. (Ditto for the doctors and other professionals in our congregation.) The only times we ever see a tie on a pastor are the occasional Easter, funerals, and weddings.

It's quite remarkable--I'm still getting used to it, but I love it!

Colleen
Susan_2 (Susan_2)
Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 10:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I didn't want to let myself get into this discussion but I just can't pass up getting my 2 cents in. I will say this loud and clear, I don't, have never and won't address a minister by his or her first name. Some folks where I attend always addess the minister as Randy. I will either refer to him as Pastor Randy or Pastor his-last-name. I am very formal on some things and addressing people with the proper titles only seems approiate to me. I never was in the military but think I would have made a good military person just because of some of my quirks. But, to me it seems so disrespectful to address a pastor by just a first name. He is my teacher on this earth presenting the perfect words of Christ to me and his position deserves the upmost respect and I offer him that repect by addressing him with his proper title. When I attend different functions at the Catholic church (oh, I think I'll get set "stright" on this) I refer to the priests as Father and I address the Sisters as Sister. Even when I atttend the SDA on Saturdays with my mother I will not address or refer to the SDA pastor as Jerry but only as Pastor Jerry or Pastor his-last- name. He is presenting the word of God as he understands it and even though most the SDA's around here refer to the misister as Jerry, well, I just won't do it. If I went to the Jewish synogue I would refer to their spritual leader as Rabbi. If I was to attend services with my Sikh friends I would refer to their spiritual leader as Geru and if I was ever to be introduced to a Moslem spritual leader I would only address him as Iman. This, of course, would not be the case if me and those folks were kin or personal buddies. I have three SDA cousins who are ordained SDA ministers, two are retired and one is just getting started. Of course, these cousins of mine I refer to by their first names. You get my drift? Now, about sermons: whoa, the minister whre I attend packed a heavey-duty whollop of a sermon several weeks ago about fornacation. He is generally such a mild mannered man and being Lutheran nearly always preaches on grace or somehow gets grace into his sermons somewhere. But, this week he had a "you do this and you go stright to hell, do not pass go, do not collect 200" sermon. Grace was not mentioned. Left me wondering who is doing what with who in the congregation. I'm glad I don't know everyone elses dirty wash, but I think the minister does.
Pheeki (Pheeki)
Posted on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 8:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think it is perfectly fine to call your pastor by his first name. We are all equal under God and if you are looking to a man to present the perfect words of Christ to you and not staying in the scripture you run the risks of traveling down the same road most SDA travel.

I am of the personal opinion that we don't need a formal church assembly. Why not meet for Bible study in small groups in a home? Why not look for people on the street to share the Gospel with. I am not saying you should give up church if you keep it in the proper perspective. I just don't want to get into hero worship here when the real hero is Christ.

These preachers are fine, but they are men and women like we are. We are all competant ministers of the New Covenant! We are all equal, we can all preach and give testimony! Praise God.

Look where it got the Pharisees (or SDA conference/clergy) to be placed on pedestals as the perfect teacher of what God wants. I believe we should study and pray and ask God what he wants for us.

Sorry to disagree, I don't like conflict but I think you need to rethink your position...remember what James said about offering people, who are important, good seats in the synagogue, while the poor people are told to sit at the teachers feet...nope, not right!

Just my humble opinion however.
Thomas1 (Thomas1)
Posted on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 2:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I believe the best organization for church is the one instituted by Christ through His Apostles. It is quite clearly outlined in acts. Though all were brothers ans sisters in Christ, there WERE churches, under Bishops (or Presbyters) and Deacons. These men were ordained to service, and had authority to teach and, if necessary, to correct. Although there is no direction on how they were to be addressed, it is clear that they were held in high respect and authority.

It is clear that the church had structure and formality in it's worship. It was not simply random groups of believers "winging it" on their own, in private or unstructured study. God has always been known by orderly transactions.

In Most instances, I prefer to call a Pastor, "Pastor". I can't bring myself to call a Priest "Father". That is one of the names God reserves to Himself. I have never met one who was offended at the term "Pastor".

<><
In His Grip
Thomas
Janice (Janice)
Posted on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 8:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thomas,
Very well said and thank you for the word, we all use the term Bro. or Sister when referring to anyone in our church family. Our pastor has a doctorate and is formally known as Dr. J. Howard Mills but to his church family he wants to be known as Bro. Howard or Bro. Mills, his wife is lovingly referred to as Sis. Judy. The only time I ever used Bro. Mills first name without a title was in a discussion with Sis. Judy and we were talking one on one together but had we been in public I would have referred to him as Bro. Howard.

I wasn't going to put my two-cents worth in but thought I would just encourage you to expound on what the "Bible" teaches and not get discouraged like I did.

Thanks again,
Janice

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