|Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 11:04 pm: || |
Hello Janice and Welcome Gene!,
Interesting stuff about the apocrypha and the Catholics. I never knew that they added it to the canon. So it makes perfect sense and has answered a question that lingered in my mind for years now about why we don't have it in our Bibles. Thank you!
I have relatives that are Mormon, Catholic and some Pentacostals. I've heard alot of stuff from them while growing up and it still sticks in my head. Of course at that time, I was being raised with the Jewish customs so knew not to listen to any of them.
Now I know not only to not listen to the Mormons, the Catholics, and the Jewish ways. Which by the way, the Jewish ways are the hardest for me to let go of still.
Now when it comes to Pentacostals, I had one aunt that everyone in my family called "the holy roller." And now I know why. But at the time, it was a mystery to me. So when I started smoking pot in my late teens, I thought of my "holy roller" aunt. <chuckle> true and sad story. Naturally I came to know myself as a "holy roller" due to the doobies and the rolling thereof.
Your dad and my dad must have had the same thought about the term Father. And to this day, I still have a hard time referring to my dad as my father. While growing up, we called him "sir." It was "yes sir" or "no sir." But never dad or father. And he too, had this giant Bible with lots of pictures in it. But my dad would rip all the pictures out as that was "idol worshipping" to have them in there.
He was young and only 34 when he died. But on his deathbed, he was shunned by most family members and all the clergy, including our rabbis, for proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ! I'll never forget his describing the Kingdom of God to me over and over again. He would describe when Jesus comes back and what kind of Kingdom we would live in forever! To this day, those pictures painted by my dads words, still remain and are my hope and comfort.
Gene your post and description of the apocrypha makes alot of sense to call it hidden. I've heard others, while growing up, define it as the "hidden book" as well. So who knows?
What we DO know, is that the Bible is our source alone. And I mean ALONE.
I've studied with the Mormons, the JWs, the Christian Science, the SDAs (of course), the Catholics and a mess of others since I've become a Christian. I began reading the Bible in 1999 and it is still my ONLY source that I will refer to for teaching me God's Truth.
I too, have the 'book of mormon,' the jws 'new world translation,' the 'Torah,' the 'koran' and a few others here like the 'book of urantia.'
In all of these, with the exception of the Torah, there is heresy upon heresy.
Oh yes, and I live two doors down from a Mormon church. They keep changing the name of it, so as to not give away the fact that they are Mormon. So far it has changed names 3 times in 3 years. Amazing what lengths some denominations will go to to hide their real identity. Kinda like the SDA Revelation seminars that don't tell you they represent the Seventh Day Adventist Church.
We need always be on guard!
Peace to you and thank you for being an open person. I enjoy that about folks. I'm like an open book to everyone I think.
God Bless you,
Gene, thank you for that information about the apocrypha! And you are right, it is ahem...apocryphal!
Peace to you and Welcome by the way. I saw your test and wanted to reply in there as that was cute what you said and it did have humor in it..which is always a good thing!
God Bless you and hope to see you some more!
Denise, the berean IN Christ Jesus
|Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 2:25 am: || |
Pheeki, Please don't give up in your studies. The Bible says that a natural man cannot understand those things that are spiritually discerned and when you voice that you aren't getting it, it sounds to others like you aren't indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Make sure your salvation and pray for understanding, listen to God and say get behind me Satan, in these times we must stay strong because many are watching us and we are the only Bible that some people will ever read. Hange in there. Read up about putting on your armour, that was what our preacher spoke about last night.
Check out sites like- http://www.gospelcom.net/ and http://www.gospelcom.net/rbc/odb/ for many study aids. Daily Bread has archives with topical books to study all about the rapture of the church, the eternal security doctrine, and the state of the lost as well as many others. I have used their books and prepared two notebooks full of subjects that we openly discuss during our breaktime at lunch with my coworkers, I praise God for the liberty that I have on my new job.
Speaking of jobs though, I need to get ready and go to work. Looking forward to further discussions.
|Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 5:53 am: || |
Janice, We too had sermon on the armour of God from 1 Thess.4 & 5 about the HOPE we have and in 1 Thess 5:8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the HOPE of salvation.
In light of those words and especially HOPE of salvation what kind of hope is there for those who cannot say they are saved.
It appears to me that we are to put on a helmet of hope of salvation. Now a helmet is something to protect the head and what is inside the head? We should have something that keeps us fixed upon Jesus(not the Sabbath) our advocate 1 John 2:1-2 My little children these things I write to you, that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
& 1 John 5:5-6 says Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who BELEIVES that Jesus is the Son of God. This is He who came by water and blood-Jesus Christ;not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth(again I say not the Sabbath).
My thought and question here is how is there any hope for those who feel they must in fact be sinless (I've asked my son-in-law the question and he said yes he thought that in the end times it would be possible to be sinless) when everything we read says we will not, BUT if and when we do sin we have HOPE that it was paid for by the death of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
And if they ever get to the point they think they are sinless, how will they know since we cannot even be our own judge and God looks on the heart.
And according to scripture 1 John 1 8 says If we say that we have no sin, we decieve ourselves and the truth is not in us.
Let the word's of His word stand.
My HOPE is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness, Carol
|Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 9:32 am: || |
Carol, you are right, I need to be putting on the armor of God but lest any of you judge me too harshly for having moments of doubt (not about things I have already been shown, but things I haven't studied out) please remember my situation. Just last night my husband and I had the most horrible fight b/c he thought I said that SDA's wouldn't be saved. I have never thought that or said that, he twisted my words.
Then after our fight (which, I should have never succumbed to but I had had a little too much wine on an empty stomach)he went to my mothers house to pick up my daughter and was very angry with me and told her I had said that, which I didn't and got her upset.
He told her I spent a lot of time on the internet and was probably going to run off with some man from the internet. (absurd!) All b/c I changed my password and won't give it to him. he had it for years and always checked up on me, yet I have never asked for his. It is driving him crazy.
She called me this morning and told me I should lay off and keep my beliefs (also hers now too-for the most part) quiet so my family doesn't get upset. No advice to him about doing the same...like leaving me alone and letting me have my beliefs. It really discouraged me.
So, I prayed about it and then appologized this morning to him (even though I never said that) and he said he was sorry too. But, it will happen again. he doesn't give up on things.
So, I will try to post more positively as not to give the impression that the Holy Spirit is not in me. Frankly, I never set out with the purpose of convincing people the Holy Spirit was in me at all. I know he is, however, but I am me and that is all I can be. We are not called to be perfect though I should want to be a good example for those reading this. However, I thought the purpose of this website was to help those in need and searching (me) who need fellowship from former SDA's (which I am). Perhaps we have lost sight of the purpose when we are going to have to measure every word so as not to give the impression we don't have the Holy Spirit.
Thanks to all for the encouragement. Please pray for me to have self-control, which is a fruit of the Spirit, which sometimes I don't have.
|Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 10:36 am: || |
Yes, the Armour of God can be found in Ephesians 6:10 and onward.
Just thought I would throw that in in case I've missed seeing it in a post here. I've been up all night again....why do I do this to meself??!
I'm hopeless, that's it...just kidding!!
Peace and Top O' the Morning to you all!
|Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 11:06 am: || |
Pheeki, This is so much the pattern; twisting and turning what we say into something that can be used against us. But if you are taught to be suspicious of everything(such as everything is of Satan/bablyon except what they know) then I guess it is understandable why they think we are against them when in fact like I have said before we only want to reveal error and replace it with truth.
I am very concerned for your situation because either you go along with the status quo and accept everything to keep peace or you step out in faith that God will provide a way.
I see a situation like I have been in with my husband, the difference, it never affected anyone else besides myself and I could suffer that, but if and when it involved our children then that was not to be accepted and only then by God's grace and power did we make it. That is not to say that I still do not suffer but our children are no longer a part of it. This all happened when they were small and really do not understand and they will never hear it from me out of respect for their father.
I want to make it perfectly clear what happened to me in no way invovled 2 different religious ideas, since we are both of the same denomination, although I am sure that I am the stronger in faith. I do not say that to boast, because I believe that just as there are different personalitites there are also different levels of our witness.
I only know that my level compels me to witness of what has happened to me and if in fact I cannot do that then I am surpressed and subsequently God is surpressed. And that leads to another thought; if our witness is squelched that is in fact exactly what the devil wants.
He doesn't care about the people who are lost and don't know Jesus, he wants those of us who do to lose confidence in what we believe and he will use any tactic he deems necessary.
It is very interesting to me that the very thing they worry about the most(Satan) has them in his clutches so tight that they are not free to live in harmony with those who want so desperately to be one with them in Christ. One way I know to be one with Christ is according to 2 Cor. 3:14 but I dare say you never hear sermons from them on that.
I can tell you with all sincerety that I have cried more tears over my son-in-law than I have over my daughter-in-law's death, which I loved like my own and enjoyed a wonderful relationship with.
Pheeki, I'm not sure exactly what you mean by posting more positively as not to give impression that the Holy Spirit is not in me. You don't have to tell me or not tell me the Holy Spirit is or is not in you, because we are one in Christ I can precieve that by the words you post as I have told you before, that you in fact do have the HC in you.
I am not telling you what to do or not to do only the Spirit of God can do that, I will only pray that you will know that when it happens even if it means you have lost self-control(as another person sees it). I have had that stigma but on me also and I say if Jesus could get angry beign the perfect person he was then there is room for anger in my soul also. I beleive with all my heart and soul that the anger he expressed was for the same thing that we do.
That anger is He was going to a cross for the very thing that they were doing and had already started revealing that to the people but they wanted to hang on to there old ways and thus deny what in fact He was on His way to do. When I think of the fact that SDA believes it is Jesus plus something I get angry and I am not allowed to let that error prevail.
I feel so close to you as a sister in Christ and also as one who is in the same cirmcustance as my daughter.
Hear our Prayers oh Lord, Carol
|Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 12:27 pm: || |
Pheeki, your expression of doubts or of not understanding does not give the impression you do not have the Holy Spirit in you. Please know that when you accepted Jesus and his sacrifice for you, you were sealed at that moment with the Holy Spirit (see Ephesians 1:13). Christ-followers do not receive all knowledge and insight the moment they are born again. Your comments have never sounded as if you're not filled with the Holy Spirit! Please don't worry about trying to write in such a way that you "prove" you are born again! The Holy Spirit who is in you makes your faith and trust in Him obvious. Doubts or lack of understanding do not equate not-born-again.
Pheeki, I'm feel for your situation at home, and I am sorry. I have no quick solution for you, but I will suggest that you pray that God will help you to love your husband for him. That means that you're not just loving him for his sake or for your sake, but you're loving him FOR GOD. That means you don't have to know what to do, and you don't even have to have certain emotional warm fuzzies at any given moment. What it does mean is that you are willing to stand before your husband in the sight of God and allow God to love him through you. God will be faithful to show you how to treat him with respect even when you disagree with him.
A wise counsellor said to me once a long time ago: if you're in an unsolvable disagreement with a lot of anger coming your way, it's OK to internally distance yourself from the emotion temporarily until things calm down. You can't make the other person change or see things your way, but you CAN apologize for any part of the argument for which you're responsible. After that, you can't force the other person to agree with you, but you can stop fighting. Just be sure (this is the part that really made an impact on me) that you don't do anything designed to hurt or insult the other person while you're waiting for resolution.
There will inevitably be conflicts with your husband and other relatives as you pull away from SDA-ism and root yourself in the Lord Jesus. Ask God to make you willing to know if there are "rights" or attitudes which you need to surrender to Him and allow him to replace with the love and respect generated by the Holy Spirit. I'm not saying this lightly or condescendingly, Pheeki. I have to pray the same pray about my interactions with people in my life. And ask him to guard your mind and heart with his peace and love as you walk through these conflicts. Ask him to be the love and the truth and the comfort that your husband and family see in you.
Please know that many of us are praying for you. Jesus promised us that we would have troubles when we follow him. Rejoice, he said, for great is your reward in heaven!
|Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 1:13 pm: || |
Please add me to the list of those who remember you in prayer. It is all right to have discouragement...even doubts, sometime. You are not alone! Read some of the Psalms. Read parts of the Prophets in the Old Testament. Read some of the writings of Paul. Were they down? Were they discouraged? You bet your bippie they were! It was Jesus who told us that in this world we would have trials. It was Paul who told us that when we follow Christ we can EXPECT tribulations. It was Peter who told us not to be surprised at the troubles and persecutions that come on us. But thanks be to God, the story does not end there. Jesus went on to say, "Do not be afraid because I have OVERCOME the world."!
You do not have to preach to someone to witness to them. Love them, even when they are unfair to you. Pray for them even when they persecute you. Will it make them nicer? Probably not. The evidence of the Spirit is a strong thing on others. Either they except Him and follow Him, or they will hate Him and try to drive Him away from them.
Remember, Jesus never said we would have an easy time. He said "Follow Me". Dear Pheeki, put your eyes on Jesus. Never take them from the cross. NEVER doubt your place in Him, or His place in you. He said He would NEVER leave you or forsake you.
He does not lie.
Aren't you overjoyed that you are
In His Grip?
|Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 2:24 pm: || |
Sorry I seem to have offended everybody at the forum. It was not my intention to suggest that Pheeki was not saved. I simply suggested that she needed to make sure of her salvation. I certainly believe that once a person is saved, it is a done deal for we are saved by grace through faith. It was just that she said she didn't know what to believe anymore. Several of you wrote that God is not the author of confusion, so, I in turn could suggest that those quoting that particular scripture were implying that Pheeki is confused. I honestly felt that God had led me to this forum but with everyone jumping on what I save in love to help and turning it around and putting words in my mouth, I guess I will remember Proverbs 17:28, from here out I will not have any input but rather study the archives and pray and trust God. Sorry for any input, after all, I wasn't a SDA so I can't possibly have an opinion that would help.
|Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 4:57 pm: || |
I attended a wonderful overnight retreat for the women's ministry leaders for our church this weekend. Elizabeth Inrig taught from the book of Philippians. The overriding principle from the book is how to live a life worthy of the gospel. As we grow in Christ, part of our calling is to edify each other. "Edify" means to "build up".
Edification is, I believe, one of the main purposes of this forum. We all have such different types and levels of pain and disappointment and questions, and we can't know how to address all of each other's experiences.
Jesus knows how, though. We can trust him to complete the work he has begun in us, (Phil. 1:6). We can also trust him to help us grow so that our "love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, so that [we] may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ, filled with the fruit of righteousness, that comes through Jesus Christóto the glory and praise of God." (Phil. 1:9-11)
Janice, I continue to pray for you and your mother and sister. Thomas, I thank God for your transparent commitment to Jesus. Carol, thank you for sharing your deep commitment to the gospel, and I continue to pray for your son-in-law. Denise, my prayers for you and for Arleta continue as well. Pheeki, you and your husband are in my prayers.
I thank God for bringing all of us to this forum (including all who haven't posted on this thread!) and for comforting and edifying us with His Spirit through each other.
|Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 5:41 pm: || |
Janice, it was not my intent to drive you from this website. I am sorry if any of my comments were hurtful to you. It just really overwhlemed me on a day when I am really overwhelmed. Please accept my apology if I have written anything offensive to you.
Carol, Jerry, Colleen,Thomas, Denise and Janice, Thanks to all of you for your comments and your fellowship in Christ.
I wanted to give up today and just go with the flow but I know I can't and the H.S. will not let me. I am feeling better now but if you could see my life and the pressure all of us (especially my husband) are under you might be amazed we are making it at all.
The Lord is holding us together and he will keep us together. My husband is in Anesthesia(nurse) school and he can't work. We are living on my income with a big mortgage and many bills that we could barely cover when he worked.
The Lord has managed to provide for us so far and I know will continue. We have spent several hundred on auto repairs this month only to have his engine blow on his truck this morning. Can you imagaine? We were 2 mortage payments behind and were receiving threats to foreclose when God sent a friend with a timely loan.
It all works out but when you have the pressure of a very intense Master's program (that many don't pass) with no income, a wife who he now perceives as turned against him (hostile to SDA, though I am not hostile to the people, I love the memebers of the church) and everyday stressers, it is more than he can take.
I have to keep praying for him and telling him that God has a plan. He says things like "well he better show us what it is soon!" I told him he may not show us what it is but it will happen!
The kids are good but we have a teen ager who is experiencing teenage delimmas...
So please bear with me and thank you all for your prayers!!!!
|Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 8:02 pm: || |
Janice, Please stay with us. I know for myself you have been an inspiration to me with your scriptural knowledge. I would like to say as I wrote earlier Satan uses every chance he can to try and break up those who agree in the Lord. I for one will pray that will not happen so as to let him win. 1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world.
Praying to hear from you again, Carol
|Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 3:37 am: || |
Sorry about the pity party. I will try to keep my heart in its proper place and pray that my studies will edify, your words certainly help me. I feel that this is what God speaks of when he tells us to bear one another's burdens. As far as hardships go, it never ceases that when I begin to voice negativism, someone seems to be so much worse off than me, you know, like the saying goes: hurt that you have no shoes till you see someone with no feet. I have met some wonderful saints of God during my 51 years and how they seem to keep that spiritual flow in the mist of heartaches is a mystery to me. I am kind of scared to be writing now, I am at work and using the company computer, I don't want to get into trouble,so, I will write some tonight. Love to all, Janice
|Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 7:37 am: || |
Janice, one thing you need to keep in mind is that there is a definite 'experience' of coming out of Adventism. SDA's at first glance, seem to use the same language as other Christians---but usually mean something entirely different.
The result is that the newer members may not truly understand what you are (sometimes) talking about. Those of us who have been out for a while are pretty well grounded in real Christianity, but the newer members are still struggling with the very real hangups from a very cult-like church.
So, please be patient with them and don't be surprised when things are sometimes taken the wrong way. It's part of the journey away from Adventism.........
|Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 7:44 am: || |
Janice, You have a heart for God. I can relate to sharing one another's burdens. I don't know how a person can think they can do that when they are the only ones with truth. I have such a burden for false teaching but if another of God's children does not want to share with me and try to resolve our difference of opinion then I am so frustrated. Notice I said try to resolve. You do not resolve anything until there is dialoge.
I want to give you an example: I have a grandson who is 8 years old and just since Christmas we have been playing Monoply. It is a most wonderful tool for learning. Math and decision making are 2 that come to mind. But something else we found one day was communicating. Something had happened with an exchange of money that he was not understanding and it was upsetting to him. Well my husband is not a communicating person and thus he just wanted to forget it and i said no lets get this settled since I knew from a previous time that if we would talk about it he then understood.
After going over again how the transaction happened and allowing him to say what he thought had happened the light came on and he said I understand now.
I did not press the issue because I want to be right I pressed because I wanted him to understand. Why did I do it? Because that is the only way I know to teach a person to think for themselves.
I might add we have our 5 year old playing with us also and again my husband said when he asked to play he said no you are not old enough. I said let him play if he only can count the #/s on the dice and move the right amount of spaces that will be all that is needed and the rest of us are surely big enough to allow that.
Well as it turns out he not only is counting the #'s on the dice but telling me when I as the banker put money in my personal instead of the bank when making transactions such as property buying. He also is learning so much about the values of money. I am thrilled to watch children learn and what better way than in a way they don't even know it is happening.
I have some smart grandchildren, I don't say that because they are mine I say it because it is truth. I can prove that by many examples one being 3 years ago this February (the reason I know the date is because it was on the occasion of my mother-in-laws death and subsequent visits to the funeral home). He would have been 5 at the time and when talking with someone the subject of #'s came up and I asked the person to write out a number such as 15,780. This is a random # not one that he has memorized and he told the person exactly what that # was.
I had found this out quite by accident one Sunday morning as we sat in church and he told me the #'s of pages in the songbook. These went to 3 didgit #'s and I asked him how do you know that and he said I just figured it out. I then went on to see just exactly what #'s he did know, thus I found he could read such as above.
I say this and yet that does not make me convident that his intelligence will save him. I have seen with his father from whom this intelligence came that the heart must be involved. And when it is only in the head then you have a relationship with whatever you are reading and if it is the Bible plus something then you have a problem.
Here I go again. What I really wanted to say is yes I understand how to relate to someone in pain and how I do not what the pains that I have been thru to come upon anyone else. This was so evident when we lost our daughter-in-law and as we drove to my mother-in-laws house to tell her I heard sirens on that hideously icy road day and said please God do not let anyone else suffer as
And I too thank God that I have not had to indure the pain that I have seen, when others in accidents have become vegetables. I prayed that day as I drove to the hospital not knowing for sure then what the outcome was "Please God don't let her be a vegetable". God answered my prayer and I thank him for it. If you would have known my daughter-in-law you would understand. She was so full of life and God knew what I could bear and what I couldn't and so he took her home.
Janice, it will be so good to hear from you again tonight,
|Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 7:58 am: || |
Bill, Thank you so much for sharing somethting that I have felt in my gut for 4 years now. Even though I know it I still am a a loss to know how to deal with it. I guess I would like to understand how you think that happens ie they undersand things differently than we do.
I know it must come from the fact that they have their own select way of interpreting and when that happens for 119 years just like a tree that is that old there are long, strong roots.
I know that many people have given suggestions that you can't debate them out of this. But what do you do with the fact that I as a disciple of Jesus according to Matthew 28:19 want and need to teach truth where error prevails?
Just rambling about what's on my heart.
|Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 10:32 am: || |
Bill, Thanks for input. How confusing the sda church can be at times.
I can remember a couple such incidents back when I was real young, and how confusing it was to me.
It was back in the late 70's, about the time when the SDA church threw out Desmond Ford out of the SDA church. And how confused I was about this incident at the time, because my mom would not give me any info on the incident. She was trying to protect me in her own way at this time, she was on the side against Ford group and thought she would polute my mind if she told me anything Ford believed.
I can remember the church we attended at the time was a fairly large sda church, and that when Ford was thrown out half of the members of the church left. And I can remember asking my mom a little time later, why so many people were attending the Bible Commmunity church just down the street from us on a Saturday, she told me that this is where on the Fordites are meeting. And she seemed so bitter about this at the time. I tell you I was really confused all about this, until just recently when I ran upon a website that told the story of the ford desmond incident.
I can remember also being in the Medford mall parking lot with my mom in Oregon sometime in the early 80's. I was aproached by some christian church members giving out some literture of some type, and being asked if I was born again, and I told them yes. And my mom at the time jumped all over me and said their meaning of being born again is not the same as ours. And I can remember how confused I was at this time.
|Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 4:41 pm: || |
This is from a devotional that I just read from my e-mail:
When they shall lead [you], and deliver you up, be not anxious beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Spirit.--Be not anxious for to morrow: for tomorrow will be anxious for the things of itself. Sufficient to the day [is] its own evil.
The God of Israel [is] he that giveth strength and power to [his] people. Blessed [be] God.--He giveth power to the faint; and to [them that have] no might he increaseth strength.
My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.--I can do all things through Christ who strengtheneth me.--O my soul, thou hast trodden down strength.
De 33:25 Mr 13:11 Mt 6:34 Ps 68:35 Isa 40:29 2Co 12:9,10 Php 4:13 Jdg 5:21
Awake, O north wind; and . . . blow upon my garden, [that] its spices may flow out.
No chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness to them who are exercised by it.--The fruit of the Spirit.
He stayeth his rough wind in the day of the east wind.
Like as a father pitieth [his] children, [so] the LORD pitieth them that fear him.
Though our outward man is wasted, yet the inward [man] is renewed day by day. For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh out for us a far more exceeding [and] eternal weight of glory; while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen.
Though [Jesus] was a Son, yet he learned obedience by the things which he suffered.--In all points tempted as [we are, yet] without sin.
So 4:16 Heb 12:11 Ga 5:22 Isa 27:8 Ps 103:13 2Co 4:16-18 Heb 5:8 4:15
I thought you might want to check these scriptures out in full content for further study if you want.
After reading some of your posts, I prayed and asked God what to do and when my break came, I pulled out a devotional to read and here are a few things that I ran across. I think it shows how God's timing is always perfect because this was a December devotional and I just read these lines today. I hope you get as much of a blessing from it as I did.
Please read the following and you will understand why I got so excited about it. Of course, miracles and God's timing are very awesome things to behold.
Wednesday, Dec. 11, 2002:
He has assured us that He will provide everything we need according to His unlimited resources (Phillipians 4:19) and that He "is able to do far more abundantly beyond ALL that we ask or think: (Ephesians 3:20)
Thursday, Dec. 12, 2002:
"The law detects, grace alone conquers sin."
Jesus has redeemed us, glorified us, and has placed us into union with Himself. (Note: this is all past tense--a done deal!!!)
These two paragraphs really jumped out at me in light of some of the discussions that I have been in.
Grace is given...to lay out, not lay up!
God is responsible for the effects and fruit of EACH believer's ministry. However, the believer HIMSELF is responsible not only for discovering his giftedness, but also for putting the blessing to use in the ministry to which God has called him to do. In the same way that God holds us accountable for our physical treasures, we are also answerable for the use of our spiritual gifts. (If I truly see that my insight to the scriptures is a gift that I can spread out to others, then I should be taking my own advice and saying 'get thee behind me Satan.' Guess I need to grow a thicker skin.)
The same devotional continued to say that it is impossible for a believer to be Spirit filled, or living within God's will, without serving others. It is how He designed the body of Christ. The way He meets most needs is through FELLOW-BELIEVERS. God is effecting the results, buty He's doing it through US, because the ministry of every believer is to love God, love others, and serve BOTH!!!
ISN"T THIS WONDERFUL?
Saturday, December 14, 2002
I thought the following was too good not to pass along to everybody:
The skeptic's doubt, the mocker's scorn, the professor's criticism, the public's apathy, the crowd's jeers, the pagan's blasphemy, the authorities' threats, the executioner's sword, the Devil's lies have not diminished the HOPE that was born that night (Christmas-the savior) nor dimmed the glorious dawn of His story that continues to radiate down through the years, until it envelopes your heart and mine.
One more devotional and I need to get ready for bed. I underlined a few things in the Dec. 17th devotional and wanted to comment on them. In Dealing With the Pressure of Time from Psalms 16:11, the devotional tells us that God wants us to be still and to know that He is God--He wants relationship and pouring ourselves into relationships can result in some of the deepest friendships we've ever experienced, and those bonds are absolutely priceless. The devotional adds that it is no less true when it comes to deepening our relationship with the Lord. Regardless of how busy our lives become, we must guard our time with Him. He is waiting for us to enter unto His presence--to sit at His feet and listen to His voice.
(When I read this devotional, I caught a glimpse of the major difference between the SDA and most other Christians) Did you notice that with the story of Mary and Martha the difference between faith and works? I hope you are following me with this one--if you aren't quiet understanding, you can read about how Jesus had come to the home of his friends for a visit. (Luke 10:40) But Martha was cumbered about much serving and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.
Note Jesus' answer to her: Martha, Martha, Thou art careful and troubled about many things. But ONE thing is NEEDFUL, and Mary hath chosen that GOOD part. Which SHALL NOT be taken away from her.
I hope everyone is picking up on what I am trying to say about the differences in this passage. When you listen to JESUS and sit at his feet--it is a good thing and no one can rob you of that feeling that comes from having a personal walk with Jesus, PRAISE GOD! Martha was so busy DOING things (works) that she couldn't even see how at peace that her sister was, instead Martha got ticked off about it because Mary didn't APPEAR to being doing ANYTHING, but what did Jesus say to her request? He said that Mary had chosen the GOOD part (Please let's all just sit at the master's feet and rest for awhile) Like he said when he calmed the angry waves, let us all hear him saying "Peace, be still"
I have such a peaceful feeling tonight and also a shout of praise. My husband went to court a year ago with a matter and thought it was settled and just before Christmas (one year later to the day)was notified that he had to go back to court, he was so down in the dumps that I told him he needed to take it up with the church family to have them all pray for him and that he needed to just be still and watch God work a miracle, well, the e-mail prayer request went out to our church family and the very same day, he received a call that he didn't have to appear at all. The other party received the same call but had no idea that a court date was set up, her lawyer had sent nothing to notify her while we had received two letters from Mike's lawyer, she thought it was settled too. (A child support deal with his ex) Anyway, she was so concerned that she thought he was suing her and called up to see what was wrong and all this time, the devil was making him fear the worst. She said that she is happy with the settlement and we certainly are, he is five payments away from being through with this mess, so, maybe I won't have to put up with her lies and nonsense for much longer. I would go into it in further detail but won't for now. It goes back to when his oldest daughter came to live with us and several DEALS were made without being properly recorded, verbal promises don't amount to much these days, you know!
Oh, goodness sakes, I certainly want to end this with a good note before I sign off tonight.
If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. I Corinthians 15:19
Make a big poster of this one to keep in front of you as you keep at the task set before you:
LIFE WITH CHRIST IS AN ENDLESS HOPE, BUT LIFE WITHOUT CHRIST IS A HOPELESS END.
And all God's people said, "AMEN"
|Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 7:09 pm: || |
Janice, Our sermon on Sunday was on HOPE and just tonight I thought of that verse in 1 Cor. 15:19 as I was at Bible Study when someone said that even if they didn't do all that is needed to get the reward at least the years of trusting in the Lord would be worth while. I said oh but this verse says if we only trust Christ for this life we are to be of all men the most miserable. Pray that she will understand.
I know you will probably think she seems somewhat works orientated and I believe that is the case with many of my fellow church members, but things are changing especially with Sermons. I have never felt that I needed to be or do something to recieve the gift but never really understood it all until 4 years ago, so I'm sure there are many people in many churchs who don't get it either. My daughter and I talk about it so often. Oh how we wish we could just give it to them, but Jesus has and they have not accepted so why if we could would they accept it from us.
I'm so glad you're back. Carol
|Posted on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 7:01 am: || |
Janice---I really don't know where I would start! I was trying to find a very funny e-mail from long ago that had all sorts of phrases that mean something to an Adventist that wouldn't mean much to anyone else...............like:
Philistine is more than a description of an ancient Bible people (yep, it's for the really bad kids at school)
Jesuit is something other than a priest. (It's a Catholic infiltator into the church).
Ingathering is something more than what squirrels do (it's what's done to get money out of the local community every December)
and the list went on and on! This is in addition to all of the different twists on usual Bible stuff such as 'sola Scriptura'--which the SDA's say they believe, but only as interpreted by E.G. White.
I guess it would be easier to just explain things as they come up. It's interesting that the JW's do the same thing. My wife has a JW aunt and I've heard her a couple of times on the phone with other JW's refer to 'circumspeak'. It's just another way to hide what's going on........