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Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Saturday, February 08, 2003 - 11:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Carol, you said that so well. The translation really is not important as long as we're reading the Bible with a heart that wants to know God and discover truth.

I do want to clarify a couple of specific points--Lydell did not say that any translation of the Bible was suspect because it was done by a Southern Baptist. She only commented on the Ryrie Study Bible. The study notes in that Bible are what she said were written by a Southern Baptist.

In study Bibles such as the Ryrie, the Scofield, the NIV study Bible, and the NASB with NIV study Bible notes, the people that write the study notes are not the people that do the translations of the text. The notes are written by Bible scholars who write them about the texts which have already been translated by other people.

Also, there is no Bible translation that takes a soft stand on homosexuality or any other immoral behavior. The NIV (which has been identified in other posts as being translated by many theologians including some liberal ones) is incisively clear that homosexuality is a sin that is absolutely forbidden as are adultery and slander and greed and debauchery, etc.

God will bless your reading of scripture, whatever version you use, if you ask for the guidance of the Holy Spirit and ask to know God and to discover truth as you read. The Holy Spirit, after all, inspired the words of the Bible, and that same Holy Spirit will speak through the texts of whatever translation you use, even if it's Spanish or Romanian or Portugese or German--and those aren't KJV or NIV or NASB or RSV, either!

What matters is that we know Christ and grow in Him!

Colleen
Janice (Janice)
Posted on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 12:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For Another Carol,
I just received ten pages of information on the NIV Bible from my pastor and would like to share further why I keep dwelling on the subject.

You stated: I just say be careful because so as not to make a person wonder if they really were in fact saved since they might be using the "wrong" translation. You also stated that I was "attacking" the NIV--be that as it may because we are called to "defend" or "fight" against false teachings. (The reason for the web site www.formeradventists.net) Are we not exposing EGW, so, why not errors found in a Bible translation of any kind that deviates from the original Bible that we had for hundreds of years before someone decided that it wasn't "good enough" anymore? Shame on anyone who wants to continue to argue with me about this subject after reading the facts presented here!!!!

I would like to say that I do understand what you said about not wanting to argue and also understand that we are all here in this forum to learn. So, since we are indeed here to learn I would like to make mention of a few verses that I found in Sunday School this morning concerning preaching and teaching.

Ephesians 4:11-16 states:

11. And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some,ÖÖ..pastors and teachers.
12. For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ.
13. Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect manÖÖ.
14. That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive.

Having written this, I would like to elaborate on these verses. In the first verse we are told that he gave us preachers and teachers. The next verse explains that teachers are to help edify us and the next tells us that teachers bring us into a unity of the faith. The Bible teaches that we are to strive to be perfect, but that perfection will only be obtained when we receive our glorified bodies but are commanded to seek perfection none the less. Last, but not least, we are told that our teaching will help us to mature in the Lord and keep us from being tossed around with every kind of doctrine that is being thrown at us in these last days.

Having said all this, I would like to say that it is the Holy Spirit that draws a person to receive Jesus into their hearts and like many have stated "it doesn't matter what Bible translation you used as long as the Spirit led you to conviction of your sinful state" but I will say again that as students of the word, we need to know what the word really says, and I feel the need to let you all know of the deceptions of the devil found in the NIV.

On the radio this morning, our pastor mentioned that sinning doesn't make you a sinner because we are all born into the world with that sin nature. It is the sinner that sins and when a Christian sins, he can know that he has an advocate pleading his case. I would like to discuss more about the eternal security issue but just wanted to post a few of the notes that I received this morning about the many, many errors found in the NIV. I really don't feel that my exposing the lies and omissions will, in any way, make the truly saved Christian begin to "doubt" their salvation. Also, if there be any doubt at all, then maybe my exposing of the truth will set them free to "making sure their salvation." After all, ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.

I am going to list the main points in this post but will be preparing a complete paper on the NIV errors for anyone interested. I will send it to anyone who emails me at cjlump@bellsouth.net but here are the main issues:

Lies used to promote the NIV.
(Lie 1) The NIV "just" updates the "archaic" words and makes it easier to understand" Nothing is "really changed."
FACT: The NIV denies the deity of Jesus Christ; the virgin birth; glorifies Satan; openly lies; removes 17 complete verses and 64,576 words!!!

(Lie 2) The NIV is easier to read and understand.
FACT: According to a Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level research study, the KJV is by far the easiest! Out of 26 different categories in the test-the KJV graded easier in a staggering 23 points. The KJB average level was 5.8 and the NIV was 8.4

(Lie 3) Older and more reliable manuscripts have been discovered since the KJV.
FACT: Dr. Sam Gipp writes, "The fact is that the KJV translators had ALL of the readings available to them that modern critics have available to them today." It is also a well documented fact that 90-95% of all readings agree with the KJV.

(Lie 4) The NIV is more accurate.
FACT: The KJV is a literal word-for-word translation. When the translators had to add words for sentence structure they are in italics to distinguish them as ADDED for clarity. The NIV uses "dynamic equivalence" rather than a word for word translation, they add, change, and subtract to make the verse says what "they thought" it should say!!! The Preface to the NIV even says that they have striven for more than a word-for-word translation. (They got that part right anyway) They have achieved exactly what they set out for and according to God's holy word will be properly rewarded for what they did.

Just so you will know what they did, here is a brief list that I will expound on further in my notes:
1. Perverts the deity of Jesus Christ (I Tim. 3:16)The NIV is a subtle twist-I will explain in my notes.
2. Perverts the Virgin Birth (Luke 2:33)(Luke 2:43)
3. Totally removes the blood of Jesus Christ (Colossians 1:14)(Hebrews 9:22)
4. Perverts John 3:16 into a lie by changing the most important word "begotten"
5. Perverts truth into lies (Compare the KJV with the NIV in Mark 1:2,3 (The exact scripture is found in Malachi 3:11 and not in the book of Isiah as the NIV translated the word "prophets" into "Isiah the prophet". Also, Psalms 119:160, John 17:17 and Titus 1:2, and now read John 8:44.
6. Removes and perverts the place of hell.
7. Perverts Jesus Christ into Lucifer (very subtle)
8. Perverts the Lord's prayer into the devil's prayer!!!

You might be surprised in the subtle differences concerning sexual perversion too. Did you know that the word sodomite isn't even in the NIV? Also, to straighten up what I said about "a" lesbian writing the NIV, here is the actual account:

A literary critic on the NIV translation was homosexual author Dr. Virginia Mollenkott. In Episcopal Witness (June 1991, pp. 20-23) she admits "My lesbianism has ALWAYS been a part of me..."

In the NIV, the word "sodomite" found in Deut. 23:17, I Kings 14:24, 15:22, 22:46, II Kings 23:7 and has been replaced with "less offensive" tags such as male prostitutes. (Is this watered down?)
Also, I Cor. 6:9 of the NIV does not condemn homosexuals or the act of homosexuality but only "homosexual offenders." (What I read hear is something like: it is OK to be a "consenting adult" but only a sin if you "rape"--someone please correct me if I came to the wrong conclusion here)

One more point that I want you to see is this:
The NIV robs Jesus Christ of worship. In Matt. 8:2, 9:18, 15:25, 18:26, 20:20, Mark 5:6, 15:19, "worshipped him" is removed!!!!!!
Question: Why doesn't the NIV want Jesus Christ to be worshipped?
Hint: see Luke 4:7, Matthew 4:9.

I hope that this bit of information will help all of you, and again I say that this was studied in great detail for your edification, so, remember that God warns against taking away and adding to the words of God!!!

Deut. 4:2 reads: "Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it..."

Proverbs 30:6 reads: "Add thou not unto his words"

Revelation 22:18,19 mentions it one last time: If any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life.

Please listen to what Jesus, our TEACHER, has to say in Luke 8:12: Then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word....

Amen and amen, have a great day in the Lord.

Janice: cjlump@bellsouth.net
Doug222 (Doug222)
Posted on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 1:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Janice, if you are most comfortable using the King James Version, I applaud you and would never attempt to dissuade you from your convictions. However, I must say that I am personally offended (dare I say angered) by your continual attempts to force those beliefs on others--and to attempt to twist scripture in order to support a dogmatic position that is not even intimated in scripture.

I spent 40+ years as part of an organization that made its bread and butter by "majoring in minors." Among other things, they taught people what to eat, what version of the Bible to use, what to wear and what not to wear, who to marry, how much to give, what day to worship, where to school their kids, the correct interpretation of biblical prophecy, etc. etc. Just like the Pharisees, they produced the most "theologically correct" people of their day. Yet Jesus reserved his harshest words for them. He said, they were like whited sepulchres. They shut up the Kingdom of God in men's faces and refused to allow those people to enter who were trying to.

This board is a haven of support for people who have been delivered from intense spiritual abuse. You cannot even begin to imagine the weight that many of the people here are carrying. Paul states boldly in Galatians 5:1 that "it is for freedom that Christ has set us free." He counsels us to "stand firm, then, and do not let [ourselves] be burdened again by a yoke of slavery." I for one can not sit by quietly while you attempt to place wounded peole back under another yoke of slavery. I MUST contend for the faith.

No one has ever been saved (or lost) by the version of the Bible that they use. The Word is not contained within the pages of a book. The Word is the Living Word. He became flesh and dwelt among us. When He left this earth in bodily form, He promised to return someday, but in the meantime, He promised that He would provide us a Comforter (a Teacher) who would guide us into all truth. I believe that! I am not depending on a learned theologian. I am not depending on whether someone perfectly translated the words of truth.

Through the centuries, many have attempted to destroy the Bible in its various forms, but have been unsuccessful. It's longevity is not owed to the works of man (which borders on idolatry), but is the manifestation of the works of the Holy Spirit. Even if I had never seen any Bible, I am promised (in Romans 1) that God would reveal himself to me. Even if the only Bible I ever saw was the much maligned "Clear Word 'Bible," I believe that God could use it to reveal truth to me if I am truly seeking.

You correctly quoted Ephesians 4 when you said that gifts have been given to men to lead us to the unity of the faith, but allow me to elaborate. Earlier in that same book, Paul mentioned the three things that that faith consists of:

1) The Spirit of wisdom and revelation so that we may know him better

2) Enlightenment, so that we may know the hope to which we have been called

3) Understanding of his incomparably great power for is who believe--the same power he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead

This faith is not the result of an intellectual knowledge gained by reading the correct version, but is revealed by the Holy Spirit, by which we were all sealed from the moment we first believed.

So, to answer your charge that the KJV is the only "accurate version, I say, isn't it great to serve a God who can even use the imperfect works of man to draw us to him? Aren't you thankful that we serve a God who says that his strength is made perfect in weakness?

When I hear that people are coming to a saving knowledge of my Lord and Saviour (by any means), I say to God be the Glory. Once again He has done great things!

In His Grace

Doug
Janice (Janice)
Posted on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 3:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Doug, I will claim Proverbs 17:28 for everything that you have attacked me with and just say that others who want to hear what I have found are free to do so by e-mailing me their request for it.

The Lord rebuke thee for standing in the way of it.

Janice
Carol_2 (Carol_2)
Posted on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 3:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Doug, thank you for voicing what some of us have been feeling.

Janice, I truly am sorry you often feel you are attacked on this forum. I personally do not see in any way whatsoever where you have ever been attacked. Please, please, in the name of our Lord and Savior, and for the good of all on this forum, please read your posts and those of others very carefully, with a sincere heart, asking God's Spirit to guide you, and see if you do not find that whenever anyone disagrees with you, or voices an opinion opposed to yours, you think you're being attacked.

I personally came to a saving knowledge of Jesus through the NIV Bible, and thanked my Lord over and over for this Bible, as I had never been able to understand the KJV. I know, without a doubt, that God has used the NIV in my life, and in the lives of many others I know.

Doug is right, and this bears repeating..."This board is a haven of support for people who have been delivered from intense spiritual abuse. You cannot even begin to imagine the weight that many of the people here are carrying. Paul states boldly in Galatians 5:1 that 'it is for freedom that Christ has set us free.' He counsels us to 'stand firm, then, and do not let [ourselves] be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.'"

Prayers for us all,

Carol #2
Insideoutsider (Insideoutsider)
Posted on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 8:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Doug, and Carol 2, for your kind and Holy Spirit filled words of response.
Janet (Janet)
Posted on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 9:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thank you also, Doug and Carol 2. May God continue to reveal His Truth to all of us, is my prayer.
Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore)
Posted on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Amen to your prayer Janet.
Angie (Angie)
Posted on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 10:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I must agree with you guys,I wrote Janice a e-mail,so this will be a repeat to her.I am also so thankful for my NIV,always using the KJV in the past b/c it was the only 'correct version' made it hard to understand,in turn,that made them [adventist]explain it to us.Unfortiantly[sic]it was to their benifit.Now that I am 'out'and read the NIV,I feel I understand alot more.My husband on the other hand still won't read nothing but the KJV,so when I point something out in my Bible,he says that it is not what his Bible says.The truth is,he can't understand his Bible!!So to me,I wish we would have never even started using the KJV and stuck with the NIV.But I totally agree,whatever YOU choose to use is ok,after all it's the Holy Spirit's 'job' to show you in His time!!!Just PLEASE pray that Jerry will see the truth b/c it's really hard to live with someone who sees things so differently on such a serious subject!!May God KEEP on Blessing us all!! Angie
Loneviking (Loneviking)
Posted on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 11:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A couple of things to keep in mind:

First, no matter what 'version' it all comes back to the original languages. If you buy a Strongs and have a Bible keyed to Strongs---or a cheap version of the KJV, you can go back and do word studies by looking up the original word. That solves the problem of 'the KJV translates this right--or no it doesn't'.

Second, to see other ways in which whatever word or phrase you are studying was used, you have to use cross-references for a complete study.

So, the bottom line is that no matter what version, if you really want to know what the original languages said---you have to go to those languages and study. The Greek words often are more akin to a 'word picture' and sometimes they don't translate all that well. If you're really doing an in-depth study any of the versions that can lead you back to the original languages works fine.

For daily reading, how hard is it to have a couple of translations? Sure, keep a KJV around as it's keyed to Strongs, but the NIV or New Living Translation is easier for most folks to understand. I understand what Janice is saying, and I'd be the last to say that the NIV is the best, but I would affirm what others have said and that is that the Word is alive and well able to take care of itself. Most of the time, the oddities of translation I catch by going through the cross-references and find that a word or phrase just isn't the same from place to place.

Bottom line for me is have a couple of Bibles, Strongs for beginning word studies, and something like the Treasury of Scripture Knowledge for complete cross-references, or a good study Bible with reliable cross-references.

Bill
Lydell (Lydell)
Posted on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 7:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Excellent Doug! Janice, I know of a couple of folks in our church who were absolutely thrilled to get an NIV Bible. What they both said after reading it for a week was this: "I NEVER understood what I was reading in the KJV. Now I can read and understand. It's like I am seeing for the first time that God is willing to speak the language I understand."

Janice, if you were Chinese, do you really think you would be able to easily understand the KJV? How about if you were deaf? My friend who works with the deaf tells me that they have problems dealing with reading the typical English in books...ASL leaves out many of the words we normally use. It is a language that speaks in concepts or ideas, not word for word meaning as you and I do.

The Wycliffe translators will tell you that there are many times when a direct translation from the KJV into some of the languages with which they work would be totally useless. I remember seeing in their newsletter many years ago some interesting examples of the problems they encounter with language.

The KJV arguments really overlook the langauges of a huge portion of our planet. He is not a God who is restricted to communicating "best" in the English of one very past century!
Susan_2 (Susan_2)
Posted on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 8:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The KJV is in Old English. We just don't speek that anymore. That's why it's called King James because that is how the English was spoken during the era of King James. I happen to be a United States American and I want a Bible in the language I speek and understand. That's how come I mostly entirely use the New Revisied Standard Version. The NRSV is also what we have at church as our pew Bibles so I'm keeping myself consistant. // And, SO WHAT if a lesbian was on the translating committee?! Like, just because she's a lesbian you think she can't know anything about languages? Get real! Have you ever known any lesbians or homosexual men? Well, I'll tell you something about them-other than the sexual orientatoion THEY ARE JUST LIKE ANYONE ELSE. This is one of my reasons for no longer worshipping with the Baptists because everytime they start in on their "hatred(?)" of certain other people they loose the love of Christ and are instead focused on how horrible, how awful someone else is. Give it up. Give it over to the Lord. Your attitude about faggots is not going to change one faggot in the least except if he/she is aware of your attitude then maybe will make then catagorise Christians based on your bad attitude and then for sure they won't want to come to Christ (And I would like to add there are many, many Christian homosexuals.) My former next door neighbors are lesbians. Karen is suffering terrible now and most likle won't live much longer because of her Muscular Distrophy. Both have told me they want to attend church so bad but they are treated so rudely at churches and even have been asked to not come back. I told them to try The United Church of Christ, which is a denomination I am very fond of. Unfortunatelly the closest United Church of Christ is around 20 miles from here and Karen is too sick to travel that far, even once week for church. Get over it. Start reading some other translations. The New Jerselem Bible is another favorite of mine. It happens to be very expensive but is well worth the money. Or, you can read it on the Internet. Just go to the official Catholic website and you can link to it. And then get out and find you some lesbian and faggot friends. You just might find the reading is good and the people are just like everyone else!
Another_Carol (Another_Carol)
Posted on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 11:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Janice,
I have only one more post on this issue

1. If someone was attacking the NIV it was not I, as I printed off the my post and looked at it very carefully and the word NIV is not even in it.

If you are reading something into what I said then there is a vast missunderstanding. I might add I had such with the minister of my son-in-law's church as I was emailing to him the false teaching of claiming sleep of the dead thru Acts 2:29-34. When he could not get me to see his point of view he stated that I was under conviction because I had told my daughter to get a divorce.

He says he made this assumption upon my statement that Yes my daughter is the one who actually made the move to legally put an end to this marriage but it was not of her choosing and I know that you will not agree or understand but I pray that your little daughter does not have someone come some day and try to persuade her to do something against her will, then and only then would you understand what I am speaking of. I know that many people think that I am the reason for this, I think some in my own church might be of that persuasion but this is what I know and my daughter knows it also and God knows and when the Spirit according to Matthew 18:19 is involved then you know beyond a shadow of doubt and you cannot imagine the joy I felt that day after I told her to be sure you know what you believe and she came back that very evening with Bible in hand and said she had asked God to show her what she needed and she opened her Bible to Galatians and read that we have freedom in Christ that the law could not give us. After being overjoyed I also knew that this would be a great division between she and her husband but which should come first allegiance to her husband or to God? And for her according to Titus 3: 9-10, after trying to teach truth for over 3 years and not having response to questions asked she finally felt she must forgo her marriage to follow scripture. What would you do if your wife decided to study with Sun young moon, Jehovah Witness, Mormans?

Sorry for the lentgh and no pargraphs but this is what I wrote exactly and he accused me because of this and no other converstion that I was under conviction for telling my daughter to get a divorce, WHICH I NEVER, AS GOD IS MY WITNESS, DO.

My reason for making this long statement is to say I do not want words put in my mouth. If I am illiterate enough that people are not understanding me that is one thing and I will accept that but I will not accept when someone says that I said or did something when in fact I have not. One thing I have a great deal of is integrety and I will fight for it to the bitter end.

As far as your statement are we not doing the same when we are declaring EGW to be false teaching, I would have to say that I can accept a lot of difference and I have shared how my brother and sister-in-law believe in tithing but we will not split hairs over it because it is not a salvation issue.

When someone makes points about there is more to salvation than Jesus Christ then and only then will I raise up and defend what I believe. I could share with you how before this all happened I put up with my son-in-law's ways which one included watching anything on my TV he wanted to and when I said I would rather not have that on he would say "Why". I asked God what do I do and he said Love him and someday you will be able to witness to him. I might add that is what I did and I am still doing that by showing him error only because he believes there is something more to salvation than Jesus death, burial and resurrection.

One more thing after looking in Bible Gateway I say that NIV has worship listed 251 times and KJV 188 so what might that mean?

I still say I do not want to argue and I am not i only want what I have said to be what I have said and not words in my mouth.

Come let us reason together says the Lord, Carol
Another_Carol (Another_Carol)
Posted on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 12:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Edit # 1. statement of previous post.

1. If someone said that you were attacking NIV it was not I since I printed out my post and looked at it very carefully and saw no where that I mentioned NIV.
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 12:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This discussion demonstrates what happens when we make non-essential issues a point of debate. There will always be divisiveness when we defend as TRUTH an opinion that is just that: opinion. We cannot accuse people of a lack of integirty if their opinions differ from ours.

No matter how much I might prefer one version over another, I cannot insist that others see it my way. Versions are not TRUTH. The Bible teaches truth, and truth, not translations, sets us free.

If someone disagrees with us about absolute truthóabout salvation and Jesus and his death and resurrectionóthat truth we are called to defend. But even then, our defense of truth must be done with respect for the dignity and background of the one with whom we disagree. That does not mean we compromise, but we must be respectful.

Carol, your posts have convinced us all that you are a person of deep sincerity with respect for truth. And Angie, many of us share your eye-opening experience of understanding the Bible when we finally read a modern version.

I don't want to say that we should not discuss translations at all, but I do want to say that the argumentative, defensive posts which favor one version while questioning the integrity of others and also rebukes to those who might disagree have no place here.

Here is the paragraph on the first page of the forum:

Welcome!

Everyone is welcome to join us and add their thoughts to this forum. When writing your messages, please use the same courtesy that you would show when speaking face-to-face with someone. Flames, insults, and personal attacks will not be tolerated. Posts may also be removed if the forum moderator believes that the message falls outside the scope of this web site.

I just praise God that he has protected his word so all people, regardless of where they live, can read it and can be taught by the Holy Spirit through it.

Colleen
Another_Carol (Another_Carol)
Posted on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 12:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Edit last paragraph from post previous to last.

I still say I do not want to argue and I only want what I have said to be what I have said and I do not want words put in my mouth.

Thanks for your understanding, Carol
Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore)
Posted on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 6:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan,

Thank you for saying this in part:

"Your attitude about faggots is not going to change one faggot in the least except if he/she is aware of your attitude then maybe will make then catagorise Christians based on your bad attitude and then for sure they won't want to come to Christ......"

AHEM......

Speaking as a "former" lesbian, this statement is absolutely true.

PRAISE AND WORSHIP GOD for HIS Goodness, HIS Love, HIS kindness, HIS Mighty Power and HIS Patience and HIS Mercy!

Because I can honestly say, without hesitation, that no Christian loved me enough back then to lead me to Christ, my God and my Saviour.

Can I get a hardy AMEN from my brothers and my sisters in CHRIST JESUS, OUR GOD?!!

Don't let your hands hang limp while PRAISING THE LORD! <grin>. Lift 'em up and PRAISE GOD WITH ME!

HE IS MY DELIVERER and let us give to HIM GLORY!! FOREVER AMEN and AMEN! :)

Denise Gilmore, the "former" who now reads the NIV most of the time but also other translations as well, even the KJV.
Susan_2 (Susan_2)
Posted on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My dear Denise, I so apriciate your reply to my tyraid above. I thought after I posted it that I may offend some on here but I am happy to find that at least one person appriciated what I wrote. I attended The Society of Friends (Quakers) regurally for several years. The Quakers have quite a large (and growing) membership and friends who affiliate themselves with The Friends who are homosexual. It goes to their understanding of God being within all of us. I really, super really like just about everything about the Quakers. I do not like the total passificiam idea though. Like our wonderful President said on the t.v. today war is to be put off for as long as possibe but sometimes there comes a point where force must be used so the greater goo will win over the evil. Now about Bible translations: it's cool whatever a person wants to use, well, so what? I do make the exception though with some of the paraphrase Bibles and warped versions such as the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (the JW) and The Clear Word Bible (the SDA). Those really aren't Bibles at all but fiction that the proponants are trying to pass off as Bibles. You can go to Janet's website and log onto Bibles through her links and read numerous translations. I often really get into the Darby translation. But, for my own understanding I nearly always go back to the New Revisied Standard Version. I have yet to get the Reader's Digest condenced version of the Bible. I think that will be a good one to look at, just for the fun of it.
Doug222 (Doug222)
Posted on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 11:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan,
Are you referring to the New Living Translation, or is there a "New World Translation" as well? If you are talking about the NLT, is ot a paraphrase or a translation? Thanks. Doug
Susan_2 (Susan_2)
Posted on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 12:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures is written by The Jeavoah Wittneses and is only accepted by the JW. No, and I mean, no bible scholar in the world will accept th New World translation as valid. This is one of the main criteria used in defining th JW s a cult. Rather than the JW's forming their doctrines to be compatable with the bible, they wrote their own version and made it compatable with their doctrines. It is pure trash. To give but one example of the trash and lies that the Watchtower Society teaches their devotees through this book all we need to do is look at 1 John 1:1. I a real bible it says, "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God". In the JW book that they believeis a real and true and accurate tanslation of the bible they have 1 John 1:1 written as this, "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was a God" Check it out! Changes the entire conept on one soverouign God.

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