| Author | Message | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
Susan 2 You must have very srong shoulders, Praise God for them. I am not sure I could handle all that you have on your plate. Except for this thing with my son-in-law most things that I have had to deal with end positively and I can even say that about my daughter-in-laws death because for her it is positive and for those of us who will one day again be with her. As I said in another post when we think we have it rough we can always look at another situation and see more despair such as someone who needs a pair of shoes until you see someone who has no feet. I would also say do not let yourself get too caught up in being all that your Mother wants since I believe sometimes we do more harm being a co-dependant. I would also encourage you to be in a group whereby you could share your trials and tribulations. I might add I think this is one place that this is possible. I have felt much release being able to converse with people who have been in SDA and it gives me such HOPE to see those who have come out. Just wanted you to know that you are in my prayers, Carol | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
My brother says the Sabbath is the ultimate test of obedience to God for the end times. But what about the Jews who keep the Sabbath yet don't believe in Jesus. According to that theology they will pass the test. Scripture says that no one gets to the Father except through the Son. So to me that is faulty theology. Has anyone ever posed that question to an SDA and if so, what was the answer? | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
Pjeeki, That sounds like a good one for you to pose to your husband. So much of what they believe does just not stake up to what the Bible does in fact actually say. But of course if like Doug or maybe it was someone else, says they don't really read their Bible then how will they know? I'll be praying for you if in fact you do want to ask the question. Carol | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
Usually, when asked to prove that the Sabbath is the ìUltimate Testî an Adventist will start with Revelations 12:17.
The assumed interpretation of ìcommandments of Godî is ìthe Ten Commandments.î Then, of course, they go to Exodus 31:13
They conveniently ignore the part about the ìchildren of Israelî and show that this is how the LORD knows his people. However, that is exactly opposite to the meaning here. Instead, we are taught in Second John 1:4-6
and Ephesians 4:30
Plus many others. The foundational law of God is Love. Another thing that Adventists misconstrue is the Book of James. They use it to reinterpret the writings of Paul about the word ìworks.î What they fail to understand is that Paul is denouncing works of ìThe Law.î James is promoting the importance of works of ìFaith.î These are two different types of ìwork.î What James says is, you cannot have true faith without acting on that faith. What Paul says is, you cannot save yourself by what you do or do not do. Using James to negate Paul shows a very poor understanding of the Gospel message. | ||
| Gatororeo7 (Gatororeo7) |
Pheeki, Your question is the dead end I came to when I was studying SDA. To take their false theology, it makes Christ irrelevant. Either Christ or the Sabbath is the final test. If the Sabbath, then Christ (and ultimately the Gospel) is irrelevant, and therefore the Jews are okay. But if Christ, then the Sabbath becomes irrelevant in the end. Does the Adventist hold onto the Sabbath and reject Christ, or does he embrace Christ at the expense of the Sabbath. His answer determines his destiny. In that light, I'll take Christ over the Sabbath any day! Joel | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
Joel, That is exactely the way I try to reason this SDA stuff all out and the bottom line is; it is Christ or it is something else. Like you, I know what I will take and there is no doubt in my mind that I have received that from the HS and it is all corroborated by the Bible. Philippians 2 1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, 2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. Praise God that we can agree in the Lord. I might add that is without any instruction except the one God tells us to use. Man shall not live by bread alone but by EVERY word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. For those I love who have been caught up in this deception I pray God's words in my mouth at His time to cast doubt and thus reveal truth. In His precious Holy Name Jesus Amen Carol | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
I heard a well-crafted Adventist sermon several years ago about whether or not all non-Christians were lost. The essence of the sermon was that people of any religious persuasion, if they are honest and sincere and haven't heard about Jesus in a convincing way, may be saved. Even though they cannot profess Jesus, they will be saved because of Jesus. His sacrifice covers them, and because of him they will get to the Father. Now, I believe that in cases where someone really, truly has never had the opportunity to hear about Jesus and the one true God, this may be true. Paul, after all, says that creation reveals the invisible qualities of God so all men are without excuse. (Romans 1:18-20) But the way this sermon went, it implied pretty clearly that good, sincere Moslems, Buddhists, Hindus, etc. will be covered by Jesus' blood, even if they're sincerely worshiping a false god. This argument is how Adventists explain that no one gets to the Father except through Jesus. If a person acts sincerely, Jesus' blood will pave his way to the Father. As with almost every other doctrinal issue, Adventist will say the right words but have a completely different, unspoken meaning. Praise God for removing the veil! I pray that he protects us from deception. Colleen | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
I don't concern myself with the salvation of the non-Christians regarding their reward or unreward. I concern myself with my being right with my Lord and Saviour. It is not my place to get worked up about those far away or even those near regarding their salvation and I'll tell you why I have such peace in my heart concerning this issue. I believe in a just and fair God. Whatever ends up being will be 100% just and fair. It is not and never will be my place to question God on those issues. Another thing, hearing and understanding are totally different things. I know you teachers on this forum know what I'm talking about. If everyone understood what they were taught, no matter how truthful and right is was there would be no need in the school system for special ed. Knowing this, I can't let myself be concerned about the salvation of Hindus, Moslems, Buddhists, and anyone else who doesn't understand the concept of Christ. That's God's job, not mine. However, I do believe the best wittness for Christianity is how we Christians live our lives as actions speek louder than words. Then if I am asked why I do this or don't do that I am presented with the perfect opportunity to explain the concept of following in the footsteps of Jesus. Yet, if the concept that I explained is not understood then God will do the right thing. Contrary to a recent article in the Signs of the Times Magazine we earthlings will not be judging God. BTW, did any of you read that cornball article? I mean it, the Signs Magazine has gotten way more goofy than it used to be. It's now a totally spun rag. As far as the SDA's and keeping of the Sabbath is concerned by non-Christians I can only go by the last presidential election. Many, maybe most, SDA's were totally elated that Senator Joe Leibermn was running for vice-president because Sen.Leiberman talke keeping the weekly Sabbah very seriouselly. On the campign trail he insisted his motel over Friday nights be within a Sabbath days journey to the synagoge as he does not use a vechile over the Sabbath but only walks. The SDA's I know were all very impressed with that. Fortunatelly Sen. Leiberman did say that in the case of a national emergency then it is alright with God to use a car and do his job as vice-preisadent on the Sabbath. Now, according to the news Sen. Leiberman is considering actually running for preisdent. I will survey the SDA's I know about that and get back to you with my polling results. My guess is they will be all a-gaa-gaa about posibly getting a Sabbath-keeper in the White House. Never mind that he's not Christian, he's a devout Sabbath-keeper and that is the end-all and be-all with the SDA's. | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
Good points by everyone. Last night I was listening to a tape by Mark Martin on the New Covenant and my husband came in and he said, "are you going to make me listen to that? It sounds Satanic." I asked him why he thought that, he said, "you say things like that all the time, why do you say it?" I persisted and he kept turning it around on me again. He never answered the question. Now why would you say that about any preacher anywhere who is in Christ? Just because you don't agree with what is being said? I don't say the SDA preacher sounds Satanic! I think it is the pervasive fear ingrained since childhood that any other interpretation of scriptures than EGW will doom you to hell. However, Mark uses straight scripture not his own interpretation! There is definately a misguided worship going on here. Sabbath is the main focus...instead of Saying things like, "Aren't we glad for Jesus and what he did for us!" they start the church service with "Aren't you glad it's Sabbath!" "Praise God for giving us the Sabbath!" How about "Praise God for giving us his only begotten Son!"? Even their name contains what they worship- the 7th day. There is something terribly off track there. Not to mention the sense of pride they have that they have a prophet who revealed the "truth" to them. Why would you need faith in Jesus for the future if you knew exactly what to expect and how it is all going to play out! Why would Jesus reveal who the anti-christ is to someone 1850 years later when the apostles knew it was already at work in the world...why didn't he tell John the Revelator who it was? I don't think he wanted it revealed, we'll know when it happens! I think he knew it would cause paranoia like it has for some SDA's (think Jesuit conspiracy, etc) and we are not to focus on that stuff. We are to be about our Father's business! Spreading the "Good News" to all. think of all the energy that has gone into "end times" writing in the sDA chruch...remember "Project Sonlight"? That book scared the poop out of me! Very sombering for a teenager to be required to read. I believe it is a trick of the devil to keep people from doing (focusing on)what Christ asked them to do. If you are too busy building your mountain hideout, stockpiling supplies, criticizing the falling standards of your fellow church members (think celebration)you are focusing on saving yourself! Where is Christ in this whole equation. And while I am venting, (this feels pretty good), what about all the time and money the SDA put into health. My in-laws spend all their extra money on fake cheese, fake sour cream, soy milk, nutritional supplements, fake meat, fake butter, make cashew cheese- basically totally non-dairy! THink of the time, money and energy that goes into that. The Bible plainly says to ask the Lord to bless whatever you are going to eat and eat it with thanksgiving for he made everything to be received with thanksgiving. I know that if the Lord blesses our food, we are having faith that he will keep us healthy. The time and money it takes to be totally non-dairy/vegan and buy every diet supplement that comes down the pike, Grapeseeds that can keep you from getting cancer, Lecethin, yeast supplements, (I am not talking a plain multi vitamin here...I am talking piles of pills...a whole kitchen counter full of them) and they are given to kids too. These same people have the most sickly children I have ever seen. It can't all be genetic. broken bones, all have systemic yeast infections, chronic sinus problems, anemic, pale complexions, very thin... I think it is a lack of faith not to trust your health to the Lord. I am not talking about being totally gluttonous and expect him to keep you thin and your cholesterol down...no, that is an addiction to over eat ( I think of it like drunkenness) however, to eat normally and whatever the Lord provides for you- you can expect him to bless it to nourish and strengthen your body if you pray. I realize I am bordering on judgmentalness here and for that I am sorry, I felt I wanted to vent some frustrations. Strangly enough the inlaws do eat the dreaded mustard and spices...I haven't noticed any unusual animal/sensual behavior from them. tee hee. | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
Pheek, If only this were in audio you would have heard me say Amen...Amen......Amen......Amen. It's all about taking the impact off of Jesus and putting it on something else, for what reason; I can only surmise from reading what Satan does in the Word of God. Some people(I don't believe it is all SDA's) believe you must strive to be perfect in God's eyes and then I say what will you do with Jesus. Think about it, if it were not for sin we would not have a Saviour and if it were not for our sin we would not need a Saviour. Except they stop short of the sin issue and never get to how will we get life. God took care of the sin issue so that we could be sinless in God's eyes, but he did not stop there because if he did we would die and that would be it. No he raised Christ from the dead and likewise will do the same for us. Someone might be gullible and arrogant to believe that they can in fact be perfect and lead a sinless life, nevermind they would be going against what the Bible says 1 John 1:8 If we say we have no sin the truth is not in us and we decieve ourselves. But who can say that they have the power to resurrect themselves. That is why I believe in Death for remission of sins,For this is My blood of the New Covenant, which was shed for many for the remission of sins, Matthew 26:28 burial for change,Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain-perhaps wheat or some other grain: but God giveth it a body as it hath pleased Him, and to every seed His own body. 1Cor. 15: 36-38, and resurrection for life, I am the resurrection and the life, he who believes in me though he were dead yet shall he live.John 11:25 I praise God that I will not have to stand in front of my maker and say when asked what did you do with my Son: I observed the Sabbath. No, I will say I believed in Him and say thank you for His mighty act of suffering for me and your mighty act of raising Him from the dead. May what we believe be what is needed for eternal life not what is needed to belong to a denomination. Carol | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
You know what Pheeki, I was just thinking yesterday how mad I was that we were always poor because we had to buy those stupid red books, and then the white ones and then the Bible story ones and then pay for SDA tuition. I had to work 20-30 hours a week starting at age 15 to pay that stupid tuition in school where a lot of my friends were having sex and doing drugs and faculty was having sex with students and good grief, I could have had some money and gone to public school! I can get real bitter about it, let me tell you. Since we are venting, let me say too that I really hated that Friday cleaning business! I did more as a little girl than I do as an adult and my house is clean! I was always expected to act grown, to be responsible, to be good. Then to fear for my life since the anti-christ was coming to kill all of the Sabbath keepers, those evil Sunday keeping neighbors of mine were going to turn on me! We are damaged from this cult and I try not to think about it too much but sometimes I could just smack someone. This is not so good, hu? Maybe I should hush now. | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
Any ex SDA Could someone please explain to me this thing with milk products? I totally understand the fat in the milk but we use skim milk and there is no fat in it. Also what about this mustard thing, isn't mustard from a plant and spices also are they not from something other than animal? I have also heard about vinegar. Does comman sense play into any of this? I mean do you think they made cheese out of cashew nuts in Biblical times and do you think they had soy milk? Is it ok to breastfeed your baby? Why would it be if in fact you cannot drink milk from animals? Nothing is sensible with the whole thing so that a "normal" person could figure it out. Why would my son-in-law who is a nurse not know that it was not good to eat a lot of fat but until EGW told him he only ate things that were deep fat fried and loved his chocolate and rich desserts. And of course would not even touch a vegetable. Now we are told why didn't you tell me it was not good the way I was eating. Wouldn't you think a person would learn about the food prymid in nursing classes? We are telling him now that this religion is not good but where are we getting with that. This is the way I see it, we're dammed if we do and dammed if we don't. I am the kind of person I don't do things just because someone else says they are right or good, I figure it out for myself such as little things like shampoo. I don't buy expensive shampoos just because someone says they are good I might use a sample and if I think it works better I'll pay the price but if I see no difference I don't use it just because someone said it's better. I lived in a time when we didn't have an out of date sticker on the milk we got from the cow consquently how do you think I know when the milk is bad? Many times one of my family has come to my house and used the milk and said is this milk any good, it's outdated, I say smell it and if it smells bad don't use it if it doesn't then use it. Simple to me. I do the same thing with cheese if it has mold on it I take it off and nobody knows and I might add none of my family that I have served meals to for 38 years has ever been sick with food contamination. Just some things that I find hard to understand why someone would not question. Carol | ||
| Janice (Janice) |
Another Carol, I asked my sister about the milk, cheese, and the egg thing once and was simply told that these were the products of an "animal" and therefore, animal in nature and not good for the vegetarian, but funny thing is "we" are mammals (animals) and my sister did "breast feed" both her girls!!! It is also strange to think that anyone would try to force a person into being a vegetarian but try so desperately to "substitute" God's gifts with something "man-made" just to satisfy their desire for the "real thing". Why not eat the real food from God? After all, we are told that ALL things are made clean through Christ and everything is to be considered a gift and nothing to be refused! We accept his provision with thanks and in doing such we santify (make clean) all that we eat. I would think that we would have all the more to worry about when eating something that man developed as a substitute for the real thing. (Sounds a little bit like the way religion is taking a turn for these days, huh?) Doesn't God warn that in the last days that people wouldn't be able to "endure" sound doctrine? I think it is in this same chapter that in the last days, people would try to make you give up MEAT, doesn't it? To those who were praying for my sister: My letter was mailed to her on January 30th with an invitation to visit this web site, and I went to the mailbox yesterday (two weeks later) and found the letter had been "returned to sender" but could tell that the writing was my sister's, and I know that the letter had been steamed open and read, so, just keep praying that God will work on her heart and lead her to a web site like this that will open her eyes. To the rest of you in the forum: I am truly sorry if I offended anyone hear at the forum with anything that I tried to expound on, I will remain in prayer that you will all grow in the truth and the truth is "we are living in the last days" and need to show the world that Jesus is the only way to salvation. Just remember that sin is still sin and those who willfully practice an open, sinful lifestyle (not daily sins in general that God says we are all guilty of) after supposedly getting "saved" probably didn't really get salvation in the first place because true salvation will allow the Holy Spirit to dwell in our hearts and will show us where we need to clean up our act. Remember, we are told that the holy spirit can be grieved but will not leave us (the truly saved and indwelt)and we will always have him, but some people will "Profess" but in the end, we are told that God says "depart", for I "never" knew you, Not depart because I changed my mind about the plan of things. Many will never "KNOW" him, these are the deceived that I thought we all wanted to reach, so, I ask only the same thing that others has asked for here, please quit putting words into my mouth. I do not hate anyone, and may God forgive any who say that I do, but to just accept everyone as they are is only living with one aspect of God and God is truly more than JUST love, he is a rewarder of those who seek truth as well as the one that rewards the unrepentant sinner with his wrath. (It is an awesome thing to fall into the hands of the living God) This is truly a warning for those who "think" they are saved and living in such a way that God describes as "a stinch" (stink) in his nostrils.) The Bible says that God changes not, he still hates SIN not the sinner. Not to say that we will walk perfectly because we are told in the Bible that "we sin daily" but the JOB of the Holy Spirit is always to point us to Calvary and bring us under conviction of unconfessed sin, not for salvation (that is a free gift)but for "righteousness sake" so that we can live a more "blessed" life in the Lord. It isn't enough just to SAY we love one another, we must SHOW we love one another and the greatest way to show that love is to let sinners know about Jesus and also about the wrath of God that will fail on ALL who refuse him. Is it really a display of genuine Christlike love to just put on a "show" of love or should we have a concerning love that will openly reprove, rebuke, and correct as scripture demands? Why too would anyone suggest that any religious denomination "hates" anyone just because we call sin for what it is--SIN? I do not believe that I have, in any way,tried to hang anything back around anyone's neck as some of you say either, by simply trying to show you some of the deliberate changes in the NIV that everyone keeps praising. To say that the Holy Spirit will always keep you from getting tripped up is only a partial truth, yes, he will but only if we ask him to lead us. The Holy Spirit is not like a "cruise control" that you just simply "set" and go on about your merry way! Why do you suppose that he warned us not to be "tossed about with every wind of doctrine" if it were not in each of us to get confused along the way to spiritual truth? Why should we study to show ourselves APPROVED if God, in fact, does not DISAPPROVE of some of these paths that we get over into? I have even come under fire and accused of forcing the KJV on everyone, but the fact is that we are all "free moral agents" and God does not force himself on anyone in any of the many translations of his word that we have available to us now. Hebrews 10 is a very important chapter to study (we are told to study) and for a complete list of last day sin that will abound in the world just read the book of Romans. I have never read anywhere in the Bible that we, as Christians, are not supposed to call SIN for what it is and to say that this is a HATE message is just one more lie from the devil, be careful in your pointing of fingers because the Bible says to "take heed" because you might just be tempted and fall into the same trap. We are, however, called to witness to the sinners and even to warn the Christian who is still living in sin. (Study Ezekiel 33). For those of you who don't think the Bible passages are important unless they are concerning "salvation" is calling God a liar as well because he says that "ALL" scripture is given by him for WHAT? It is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, so that we may be made perfect, and to FURNISH us unto all "good works." II Timothy 3:16. We all need to grow and seek what God will have us to do in our lives, to believe that a loving Father won't punish his children (study WHO his children are too)is another misconception being taught today, just because a person claims that they have received their salvation is simply not the truth, and even though we aren't suppose to judge, the Bible says that a tree is known by the fruit it bears and we are called to listen and obey God and to whom much is given, much is required, and I think that this means that as we all are growing and acquiring knowledge of the truth, we are in turn required of God to share in ALL his truths, not just the ones that don't upset the applecart as is were!!! God will punish us both here and now as well as in the eternal based solely on what we do with whatever gift he has given us, and our works as a Christian will be tried to determine our rewards in heaven while the "unsaved" will be tried to determine what degree of hell's punishment that they will receive, for God is JUST and I have this on the absolute "highest" authority. We need to be about the Father's business and quit backbiting one another on every turn, too much time has been spent in this forum debating over what many call "non-essentials" while what we need to be doing is seeking God and asking what he would have us to do. I have spent too much time on the web reading "cute" e-mails and such and should be spending more time on my Bible studies. After all, God says that study is what helps us "grow" and I want to put on the "full armour" of God. So thanks again to the person that sent me the bluedot Bible study site. That web site has got everything that you could possibly ever need to study the word with. Thank you so much!!! God bless you for finding it and forwarding it to me. I hope that you all will take what I said as a final answer to all your many accusations concerning me and my intentions. God knows my heart. Janice | ||
| Janice (Janice) |
P.S.--I don't understand the vinegar denial either!! My sister asked me if I had ever seen what happened to a worm when it had vinegar poured over it. SO? | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
Dear Pheeki, Another Carol, Janice and the rest, Just this week my mom pointed out to me that the SDA health message from Adventist Health in their reasearch shows that SDA's are healthier and have longer lives than other folks. I just don't believe it. I say it all depends on who they are comparing their control group (the sda's) with. The Quakers drink alcohol, eat unclean meats and all the other stuff but the Quakers (and I know this because I have many Quaker friends as I worshipped with them regurally for around two years) are very frugal and self-controlled in everything. They don't over eat and they don't over drink. In my opinion they follow the Bible teaching on eating much more than the SDA do. And, I believe this because the Quakers teach much simplisity. My mom was even telling me how EGW was ahead of her time with her health message. I try not to talk back because I think m mom has been having a lot of little strkoes (t.i.a's) lately and I don't want to rile her. But yeah, some sda's are really spun about their eats. Most sda's in my opinion eat just like everyone of their culture when in their own homes where their sda peers aren't keeping an eye on them to see if they mess up with their eating. I personally have known several sda's who grew up very sickly because of extreme allergies to grains and/or having Crones Deaease, in which they COULD NOT have the vegemeats and really did have to have animal meat for the protein. It's really sad because when SDA kids are very sickly the sda parents generally don't look to the diet because they believe they are following the Eden diet and the kid just gets sicker and sicker until a medical professionsal will finilly figure it out and then hopefuly the sda child will get the foods he/she needs. My cousins daughter was away at a sda high school boarding school and was just getting more and more sick and was finilly hospitalized for a very long time (six month or so) until it was finilly found out she was deathly allergic to all grains, except corn. And, this includeed the Noble Soybean. So, her parents, and her dad was even on the school board, went to the school people and told them the daughter had to have animal meat and she was not to eat anything with any grains in it. Even under these extreme dietary needs this girl was not allowed to take her meat to the cafeteria and eat it at the meal table where the other students could see her eating meat. She got to have meat at school but only could eat it in her room. Is it any wonder she has no regard for sda'ism anymore? And, this was probable only around 10 years ago, or so. About pepper, spices and mustard-well, that always seemed really stupid to me. That is 100% EGW. The bible speeks in mumerous places abput spices, which pepper is. Jesus gave the parable of the mustard seed so I can only assume the folks he was speeking to knew about mustard. All I can figure is that EGW had something to say on almost anything and everything that she was aware of and most of her opinions are stright from looneyville. And, if she even had a teensey but of prophit in her then she should have let us who are living nowdays know what to do about genetically engeneered foods, and if we should be eating South and Ceatral American produce because of all the chemicals sprayed on the foods down there. She was a lously prophit because her prophicies did not address the important things in the future. She never even warned us not to eat at Chinesae restruants that use MSG, we had to figure that out without her imput. She sure was one lously prophit. | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
I would just like to make this statement for the record. My grandparents on my Father's side lived into their 90's and they ate pork heavily, used cream (seperated it themselves) and until his late 80's probably my grandfather never say a doctor. My grandmother had arthritis but other than that was very healthy. My grandparents on my mothers side lived to 75 and 79 and were in good health until their deaths. Grandpa died of a heartattack and grandma had a stroke but these ages were for sure 40 years ago normal range. My Mother-in-law died at the age 89 and never had a surgery nor was hospitalized until she needed a pace maker at the age 83?? and then again when she broke her hip. She had a steady diet of pork all her life. My father died at the young age of 61 from lung cancer acquired from smoking. My mother is still living at age 81 and in excellant health, still watches her great-grandchildren. Long life does not come from eating vegatarian it comes from the right genes and if you are not lucky enough to have then you will just be one of those lucky people who gets to see Jesus face to face sooner than the rest of us. I'm not saying that we should not be aware of things that can effect our health such as smoking, doing drugs, wreakless life styles but do not make it a doctrine of salvation. I think the main reason for the diet and the Sabbath and the jewlery is to keep you tied to the church and if your tied to the church you put Christ 2nd like I said in another post. It's not about what we do it's about what He did. I would sure like to hear more about the sickly people in SDA. Of course SDA's don't judge anyone although my daughter while she was going to the church for about a month heard the Pastor say referring to someone who had died of a heartattack that if in fact he would have been eating healthy he would not have had the heartattack. Sounds a little judgemental to me. But what I have come to believe is that SDA's can say anything they want because after all the are the "Chosen" are they not. I am not chosen by what church I go to but I have been predestined by My God and He gave me that wonderful assurance when He sent His Son to die in my place and now everything has been declared clean and I can eat anything or drink anything I want in temperance and common sense, something else my Lord and Saviour gave to me. Carol | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
Oh. Carol, you said you above post so wonderfully. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
I agree, Susan. You said that wonderfully, Carol! Adventists and Mormons, I might add, both live on the average about seven to ten years longer than the average American. A former SDA physician friend of ours pointed out once that Adventists do not live any longer than other conscientious people, usually Christians, who do not drink or smoke. Those external factors seem to be the ones that really make a difference in life expectancy. This friend further pointed out that the non-smoking, non-drinkers do eat meat, and their life expectancy is comparable to that of Adventists. Those factors would explain the Mormon's comparable life expectancy as well. They prohibit drinking and smoking and caffeine, I might add, although I believe they do own a cola company--RC Cola, I think. The vinegar issue is because Ellen called it a stimulant. She forbade any substance that she thought might cause irritation to the stomach or be a stimulant to the body. She similarly forbade black pepper and warned against spices. Truly observant, conservative SDAs will avoid spices including cinnamon. Mustard and ketchup and even mayonnaise contain vinegar and hence are frowned upon. Mustard has the added distinction of being a "stimulant' (or irritant) in its own right. I have a personal hunch that EGW struggled with personal issues of stimulation in some form. I can't remember the book it's written in, but there is in her writings a record of her experience of being "sick" for an extended period and having to give up a favorite vinegar which she loved and used frequently. She blamed this vinegar for her chronic sickness, and she had a hard time giving up. Now, I ask you, how many people do you know who use vinegar regularly, get "sick" from it, and struggle to give it up? And does anyone remember how vinegar is made and what stages the substance goes through on its way to becoming vinegar? I just can't help being suspicious that her "vinegar" problem was really an alcohol problem. But I realize I speculate-- Praise God for the New Covenant and the word of God which we can read for ourselves with the direct help of the Holy Spirit! Colleen | ||
| Loneviking (Loneviking) |
Yep, with the exception of excessive drinking and smoking, the rest is a roll of the genetic dice. If you are prone to heart disease, cut down on the fat intake--that's just common sense. My wife is vegetarian and folks on her side of the family live up into their nineties. Three of her grandparents died in their nineties (one is still alive at 93), and her dad at seventy looks fifty. Her cholesterol is low and she's in great shape---probably live to be in her nineties. Ditto for many of my family who aren't vegetarian. My cholesterol level at it's worst is the same as my wife and often lower---and I eat anything that isn't running fast enough to get away! My grandmother is 89 in April, never been a vegetarian. My dad is 73---no heart disease. It really comes down to the genes. What I really have against the 'health message' is the two errors that stem from this---somehow 'health' is taught in the Bible and truth is progressive, because the church never had this truth until it was shown to EGW. My response is BURP!---and pass me another pepper steak and salad!! | ||
| Doug222 (Doug222) |
I have no problem with the idea of healthy living. Many non-christians have adopted practices similar to those of Adventists, although maybe bot to the same extreme with positive results. I don't think that just because we have the freedom to eat whatever we would like that we should do it--I certainly could stand to adopt some more healthy practices. What I most have a problem with is the health message being referred to as "the right arm of the Gospel." That is blasphemous! At the church I used to attend, one person got up in between SS and Divine WOrship every week and read from "Counsels on Diet and Food" (and other such books). I used to think, "if I have to live like the stuff that I was hearing, I think I'd rather someone just put me out of my misery." Why would I want to live to 95 years old abstaining from everything and taking cold showers every morning? In His Grace Doug |
