| Author | Message | ||
| Doug222 (Doug222) |
Jerry, you and I are on the same sheet of music. I was thinking the same thing about his use of Romans 6. Romans is one of the easiest books to pervert because it has so many verses that can be taken out of context of the entire book. I also had problems with his statement that:
If God only fulfilled the ceremonial laws (of which the Sabbath would have to be one, since it is not moral in nature), then that leaves an awful lot of laws that we are still obligated to keep. You can't simply pick and choose. In His Grace | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
Pheeki, I would urge you to present these questions and statements made by Jerry and myself and pray God's help to you to be strong in the midst of trial. Love & prayers, Carol | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
If we are going to keep the Sabbath, we are going to have to define what Sabbath keeping is. Here is what God commanded regarding Sabbath observance: 1. Not building a fire on the Sabbath. Ex. 35:1, 3. (Don't go camping with any SDA's they break this one all the time) 2. Staying in your place, not traveling on the Sabbath. Exodus 16:9.(Well, I guess that would eliminate going to church) 3. Not carrying a load on Sabbath. Jer. 17:27, Neh. 13:15.(No Potluck carrying, oh, but we can't travel anyway so this wont be a problem) 4. Not to bake or boil on the Sabbath. Ex. 16:23.(Better hope God sends some manna on Friday afternoon!) 5. Not buying or selling on Sabbath. Neh. 13:15.(Well, this is going to be a problem for all of those cafeterias in the SDA hospitals that sell food all day on Saturday, I know 'cuz I used to work in one) 6. Death Penalty for Sabbath violations. Ex. 31:14,15. Oh my! God commanded that a man be stoned to death for picking up kindling on the Sabbath-guess he was gonna build a fire and break two laws) You can not pick and chose what part of the law you want to observe. Gal. 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. If you try to keep one part of the law you are indebted to keep the whole thing. Aren't they just warped? | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
Yeah, Doug222, Not only does he break the Law into "moral" and "ceremonial," but also into "sanitary" and "health" (what's the difference please, and where does the Bible say we should make that distinction?) then "equity." Puh-lease!!! How about "up" laws and "down" laws, "yes" laws and "no" laws, "in" laws and "out" laws, "to" laws and "fro" laws? Or maybe semi "moral" contra "moral" ultra "moral" and so on. Give me a break! (OK, I'll calm down now) | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
I just want to make one statement that I believe will be forth coming if in fact Pheeki's brother sees what we have posted. We will be called according to Gal. 5:21-23 not living in the way God wants us. I will say to that; it is exactly what they want;they use it as a spring board, since they know that we as Christians will accept most anything(I'm speaking for myself) and then when they pervert the Word of God we come unglued and they say ah, ah, ah that's not the fruit of the spirit. Or as my son-in-law did it; just quoted me the verses. I said in the name of Jesus Satan be gone. And for that I am the mother-in-law from #%^%&**&(*, never mind we had a wonderful relationship when he was allowed to do anything he wanted and I said nothing. Why? Because I do what my Father God tells me to do. I can and do/did accept, but when it comes to someone telling me that what I have found in Jesus Christ needs to be added to I will not just sit and say nothing. And if you think that is not what God wants of us then He should have controled His Son when He was in the Temple throwing chairs and upsetting tables. I say He was doing it for the same reason. He was going to a cross for the very things they were doing which were already starting to fade but some just could not let go of the old and here we are today. If God wanted me to be quiet and just sit and listen to people tell lies about what in fact my God and only my God has revealed to me then He should have tongue tied me. But quite the opposite I am told to witness as to what has happened in my life and I will go to the gallows doing so. A life ended by professing what in fact my Father God Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ has told me to is just a pitance compared to the fury He will have for those who trample His Son underfoot.Hebrews 10:29. And besides my God has told me once He would be with and He was and I will rest in it this time too. I would like to hear of what the Lord has done in your life Pheeki's Brother Because He lives in me and I in Him, Carol | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
I don't even know what to say to him anymore. Everything you have said, I have said. However, I have tempered everything I said to him so as not to arouse anger. Perhaps it is time to quit pulling punches! The part about Lucifer really irked me! Lucifer has no kingdom as of 2000 years ago! He is a defeated, washed-up, has-been that someone needs to slap with a wake up call-IT'S OVER! Surrender! I am so tired of people giving him more credit than is due him. EGW sure gave him his due! She was obsessed with him. She sure knew his inner thoughts! Ok, with that off my chest let me say one more thing...I do not, nor never will I belong to the so-called kingdom of Lucifer. I do not oppose the Law of God, I simply have come to understand it and put it in it's proper place. It was put into place to show us our sin and point us to Christ. Romans 10:4 says..."4Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. Believes what? That Christ died for our sins? That Christ came and ended the Law? Yes. If you don't believe that then you haven't experienced the freedom of Christ in your heart. Why is it that SDA/Messianic Jews (I have come to believe they are kin, very close kin) think it is more important to obey than to have faith? Why is it they cannot accept that we can do nothing through the Law that is pleasing to God. To have faith is obedience. That is obeying God's plan! If you notice he (and my Messianic friends) use very little scripture to back any of this up. I send to them, text after text. I won't even send what my Messianic friend sent today, it made me really mad. I feel like I am being assailed on all sides by Judaizers! Thank God for all of you! | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
The shotgun method you mention is what my JW kin are very infamous for. Makes me go batty. To the letter of the law about doing good on the Sabbath, just how many SDA children do you really believe grow up with this concept? Except for doctors and the occassional nurse can you think of any other profession that does good that is embrased by Adventism as valid employment on the Sabbath? Just how any amballence drivers, emt's, firefighters, police officers and other do-good professions do you know of in the SDA church that are actually encouraged to do their good on the Sabbath? This doesn't even include telling little SDA children, "Hey, it says we are to do good on the Sabbath so maybe you should go to grandma's house today and mow her lawn, wash her dishes and otherwise help you old grandma spruce up her place a bit." It's not going to happen! I grew up SDA. Many of my kin are SDA. Their idea of Sabbth-keeping is to go to Sabbath School and then the 11:00 service, then stay for potluck if there is one, then go home and sleep all afternoon. Then time it just right so they get to the restruant, the boweling alley or the skating rink (but never a movie theater) just as they can no longer see the sun over the mountains. Makes me want to throw up when I observe their so-called Sabbath-keeping. They won't go shopping on the Sabbath, but they sit at the kitchen table at breakfast and read the advertisements for the stores in their morning newspaper and actually plan which stores they will rush to as soon as Sabbath is over. They won't shop on Sabbath but they look through catalogues that come in the mail. They won't watch the news on t.v. but they read the newspaper. I personally know a SDA woman whose 15 year old daughter went in for an abortion. The abortion was on Saturday morning and this lady tried to tell her daughter a non-emegency medical prochedure should not be scheduled on Sabbath. Makes me gag! | ||
| Janice (Janice) |
Doug, I enjoyed that post. How can anyone read about the verse that speaks of the laws that were etched in stone and conclude that it was "only" the ceremonial, sanitary, etc. laws? I thought that was the big "10" that God etched in stone on Mt. Sinai, and I don't think I am wrong, but you know, after writing and/or typing so many pages of dialogue on the subject, I am just plain tired of trying to reach my SDA family, my mother won't even "talk" about any of the issues, and my sister is more than happy to be my mother's spokes person on the subject of "law". I am afraid that nothing I have said has gotten through and with the return of my last letter, well, I am only human and now that I have said my peace with her by inviting her to attend this forum (begging), I just have to turn it over to God. Like we all say, one plants, another waters, but it is still GOD that gives the increase. He knows whose heart is right and who will or will not come to him with a repentant heart, I just can't help it that I want to know where they stand with God, just pray for me that God will give me patience to keep on praying for them. Everyday that passes is one day closer to eternity!!! Colleen, Thank you to for your reply to Susan's post. I can only conclude that she has spent to much time looking at the wrong books to actually believe that it is okay to have a same sex relationship as long as you are in love, Lord help anyone who has this mind set. That was the reason that I suggested that the book of Romans be read. It plainly says: ...for even their women did change the natural use into that which is AGAINST nature; And likewise also the men leaving the NATURAL use of the woman, burned in their LUST one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly and receiving in themselves that recompence (payment,reward--aids,etc.)of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge; God gave them over to a REPROBATE mind *The Greek word is defined as a mind of which God cannot approve, and which must be rejected by Him, the effect of refusing "to have God in their knowledge;" in 1Cr 9:27 (for which see CAST, REJECTED, to do those things which are not convenient. I will agree that homosexuality is a sin just like any other sin but since God is just, he will chasten accordingly. (See the story about the servant beaten with many stripes and the other beaten with a few for an analogy) I also have read about eunechs in the Bible and believe that some people naturally should lead celebate lives, but a true eunech has no sex drive-desire, do they? There are many people in the world that once practiced the lifestyle of homosexuality and were led to the truth of their SIN problem and the Bible states that God does hear the repentant prayers of a sinner, so, maybe a study on the word repentant would be beneficial in this subject. To repent simply means to "admit" and it also means "to turn away from" to name a couple of definitions. I have asked God to show me if I have done anything wrong and haven't seen where I have spoken out-of-line with the scriptural facts that I have presented in my post. It was like I said in my post yesterday that some people let the devil lead them into reading more than what was actually said. Funny how I came across a devotional that spoke of that very thing today in my Daily Bread, here is what it said: Communication skills: Everybody is discussing it, studying it, practicing it. Yet, despite our improved communication skills, we may feel like the author who wrote, "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." Jesus, the master communicator, was often misunderstood, as we see in the scripture (John 8:30-47). Although he spoke the truth clearly, his hearers jumbled up his message and then rejected it, to which he replied "Why do you not understand My speech?" He quizzed them and then answered his own question, He replied, "Because you are not ABLE to listen to MY word" Susan, why are you not able to understand what I am trying to say? Why is it that you choose to call Jesus himself a liar. If a person is actively in a same-sex relationship and shows no conscious conviction of it at all (1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron), and no conviction that they are involved in an all-out sin, this is wrong and call it sexual orientation vs. whatever, but it is a lie that you have been spoon-fed by Satan. If you don't believe me, finish reading in Romans 2 and then Romans 3:16--In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. It is not that Jesus has failed to communicate what SIN is but the fact was that they did not want to HEAR the truth. And why didn't they want to hear the truth, because it made them FACE UP to their need to change. I also read about God's mercy system and again I say that God is JUST and the penalty for SIN is meted out ONLY to those who REFUSE to acknowledge their sin, and who reject God's forgiveness through Jesus Christ. This was the reason that I asked you to define a Christian homosexual to me. The term is "double-talk" because many homosexuals have indeed become Christians but by definition: Christians acknowledge their sin and seek forgiveness, they don't continue in their sinful lifestyle, and if they do slip up and sin, they know they have an advocate working on their behalf, with that sin will be a Holy Ghost conviction because that is one of the jobs of the Holy Spirit--to bring conviction that leads to repentance. Hebrews 10:26 is very clear about what kind of trouble we will get into if we willfully sin after we have received the KNOWLEDGE of the truth, (I don't believe that this is about getting saved, this is just hearing-not accepting)I don't mind hearing someone say that they are an ex-homosexual that claimed their free gift of salvation (fact is--I rejoice with them in their deliverance)but that certainly isn't the same thing as what you are attempting to define, excuse me if I misunderstood, but I don't think I did. You are telling everyone in this forum that you have a lesbian "couple" living next door to you, so, from that I take what you are saying to mean couple as in "sexually involved". Having said all of this, I think it is time to get back to teaching truth. The truth is that you were suggesting that I was implying that homosexuals were all a bunch of morons just because I stated that a lesbian was part of the team that compiled the NIV. I also took great offense in your statement that anyone speaking out against this sin is preaching a "hate" message, check your post out-that was what you said and it is a lie. For the record, in case you didn't know, it is a "hate" term to use the word faggot as you did in your post. Faggot is an ugly label used by ugly people just as the word nigger when used to define blacks, so, consider your words wisely too or someone who visits our post might get the "wrong" idea about you and put words in your mouth. I will close with something my pastor said: Be careful of the words that you speak, make them sweet because you just might have to eat them someday. I am not trying to flame-broil anyone here and have tried to clear up any misunderstandigs that have gotten started with all of this. I don't like upsetting anyone and hope that this apology isn't equally offensive, after all, Christian teachings are usually referred to as "apologetics" so, I will always try to apologize if I offend anyone. Just remember II Timothy 4:3-- For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; I pray for enlightenment as I search the scriptures for truth and am trying to be a willing vessel for the Lord's use. I hope that God will let you see my heart, I love you all and pray for each of your particular circumstances even when I don't post my every prayer. Yours in Christ, Janice | ||
| Janice (Janice) |
Doug, You truly said it all with this one: Finally, I will tell you that Adventists are notorious for what I call "speculation theology." I have never been so totally exasperated in my entire life after battling out scriptural proof texts, literally hundreds of pages, with my sister, spanning over a decade now. It is like I took every post that I have read in this forum and sent it to my sister, God help us all, truly. Love, Janice | ||
| Dennis (Dennis) |
Having researched many of the nearly four hundred Sabbatarian groups (this includes denominations as well as independent churches) in the United States, I have found a common thread amongst them. This commonality centers on their numerous man-made versions for Sabbath observance. Each group seems to have its own established tradition and culture as to how they attempt to observe the Old Covenant Sabbath. Interestingly, I have found that many Sabbatarians also believe in the Wednesday crucifixion theory, conditionalism/soul sleep,, anti-Trinitarianism, anti-holidays, anti-birthdays, and a host of anti-other things too numerous to mention. Collectively, they dedicate a vast portion of their time in Sabbathing instead of honoring the reality of the shadow, Jesus Christ (Col. 2:17). All seven of the festal observances listed Leviticus 23 pointed to Jesus in some manner. New Covenant believers do not find it necessary to meet and worship Christ only on a certain day and at a certain place each week, but instead the True Sabbath (the Lawgiver)lives in their heart EVERY day. Truly, with Jesus in your heart, EVERY day is a peaceful and joyful Sabbath in Him. In fact, the central theme of the whole Bible is Jesus Christ. Paradoxically, Adventists have no problem spiritualizing circumcision, animal sacrifices, grain offerings, and other festal observances. Why this hangup with one of the seven festal observances? Like the other festal observances, the weekly Jewish Sabbath is not a moral issue for Christians. Although moral obligations existed before Sinai, the Ten Commandments were historically-conditioned for the Hebrew people (Deut. 5:1-3). The Decalogue is a convenient summary of the Old Covenant. It is not, however, a summary of the New Covenant. Sadly, many people still delight in judging one another about a day--despite clear Scriptural prohibition against such actions (Col. 2:16). The New Covenant believer rejoices in God's rest CONTINUALLY (Heb. 13:15,16). "Today" is an ongoing period of time like the Edenic Sabbath that existed before the Fall (Heb. 4). I firmly believe that Satan is most delighted with religious systems that extoll and glorify the shadows pointing to Christ in place of His divine reality. Indeed, anyone that proudly and stubbornly clings to the shadows pointing to the Cross, is thereby denying the salvific reality of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. The SDA Sabbath cannot save us; but thank God, the True Sabbath endured the shame of the Cross for you and me. In awe of His grace, Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Brad_2 (Brad_2) |
Does anyone have the scriptures on the sacrifices and other requirement that had to be performed on the weekly Sabbath Day. I would like to know as it makes it all the more convincing that the Sabbath Day was a feast therefore a ceremonial law. Even tho the law was to be one law "old covenant law". | ||
| Doug222 (Doug222) |
Our Pastor preached a sermon this past week that addresses the problem with the Sabbatarian argument perfectly. The argument perpetuates the "two kingdom" myth. After the fall, man was separated from God's Kingdom, and presided (albeit miserably) over his own Kingdom. Jesus made a way for us to be restored to His Kingdom again. Despite the fact that we have proved time and time again, that our Kingdom doesn't cut it, we stubbornly refuse to relinquish the throne. Instead, we compromise by trying to maintain dual citizenship. We want to be a part of God's Kingdom, while holding on to our own. The Sabbaatarian argument that Pheeki's brother gave us about the 24-hour period from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday is a perfect example. We give lipservice to the fact that this is "God's time." The myth is that the other six days are ours. Do you see what happends? We get to be "Lord" over our Kingdom, and still give God His "due." Of course as it has been pointed out, God had some pretty lofty standards for Sabbath keeping--ones that we cannot possible uphold. So, we adjust (compromise) the standard so that His Kingdom is a little more accessible from our Kingdom. This whole "two kingdom myth" sets us up as "contractors" rather than "stewards." In other words, we barter with God, and decide what we are willing to give from our resources (Kingdom), rather than seeing Him as Lord over our entire life (all seven days), and in turn living our whole life as a steward rather than an owner. The same argument can be made for tithing--with the idea that we give return 10% to God, and get to use the rest for ourselves. In reality, 100% of it belongs to God, and our decisions about how we use it should be based on the idea that we are stewards of all of it, and not owners of 90% of it. He quoted a couple of scriptures to illustrate the point. One was the Sermon on the Mount (Matt 6:24) where Jesus said that "no man can serve two masters." Another was the story of the Rich young Ruler (Matt 19:16-22), who walked away sad because Jesus asked him to relinquish control of his Kingdom. The last example he gave was the parable Jesus told about the pearl of great price. The man who found it, went out and sold all that he had and then came back to purchase it. Isn't it amazing how the Spirit works. I am dealig with this issue in other areas of my life, but definitely see the application to the Sabbath argument. So how about it? Are you a owner (contractor) or a steward? That's a rhetorical question that no one needs top answer here. In His Grace Doug | ||
| Brad_2 (Brad_2) |
Doug, A agree, it make perfect sense that we give Jesus 7 days an week and 100% of our possesions. In return we recieve the greatest reward and that is Christ living in us. Grace and Peace in Him Brad | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Wow, great posts these past two days! Jerry and Doug and Carol and Sabra, you really addressed the issues behind Pheeki's brother's letter. As we've said before on this forum, typical Adventist arguments create a "straw man". They misquote or misinterpret scripture, then use proof-texts to prove their false assumptions--which they call biblical truth. You all had wonderful answers! Pheeki's brother sounds like he's struggling with the cognitive dissonance most of us struggled with for years. It's crazy-making to try to fit all those ideas together. You absolutely cannot mesh the Old covenant and the New Covenant and throw creation in as well and produce an eternal covenant that never changes. I remember so well all those mental gymnastics. The interesting thing I noticed is that in all his covenant recountings, Pheeki's brother did not mention God's covenant with Abraham--now that was a covenant the pre-dated Sinai that IS eternal. And the new covenant has revealed the mystery that all of us Gentiles who accept the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus are also the amazed recipients of God's promises to Abraham. We are all Abrahams's seed. Jews and Gentiles who are Christ-followers are all saved by faith and are children of God. I suspect the Abrahamic covenant doesn't play well in Adventist arguments, however, because the Sabbath was not even hinted at in it, and further, because the "eternal" mark of circumcision as the sign of the covenant is clearly done away with in the new covenant. So Adventists leave out the one pre-Sinai eternal covenant that really does deal with salvation because the important part of that covenant is not the SIGN of the covenant but the promises of God! If they taught the Abrahamic covenant, they would have to deal with the fact that the new covenant excised the sign but kept the promises. Praise God for his faithfulness and for Jesus! Colleen | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
Janice, please reread my post. I will say it again-there is a big difference between sexual preference and actual sexual behavior. Homosexuality is defined as sexual preference for a member of the same gender. No amount of trying to convince me otherwise will make me believe it is sin to be drawn to folks of the same gender. That is not sin. The sin would be to let those thoughts turn into lust and then from there if it is further pusued to turn into actual physical sexual sin. Did you know that AA teaches an alcholic is and always will be an alcoholic? I have a friend who referrs to herself as an addict who has been in remission now for around six years. She is an addict but not a practicing drug user at this current time. Try to understand what I am trying to get across here as I think you just aren't getting it. A homosexual who is leading a celebate, cean-cut life is not giving into sin any more than the than the addict who is currently not using. Frankly, I admire the people who have the willpower and fortitude to not give in to the desires of the flesh in those matters. Again, I want to say, yes, sin is sin is sin. It is God's responsibility to deal with that. But, here in the United States of America a lesbian or homosexual who may be my neighbor who otherwise is a decent person sure is not the threat to my community that a molester, pedephile, wife-beater or even drunk driver would be. The best wittness a person can be is by setting a good example. Being a bigated neighbor will not win anyone over. Remember, you'll catch more flys with honey than with vinegar. I am not advocatin homsexual behavior. Actually, just the opposite. I am just defining the terms. I hope you get it, what I'm trying to get across. | ||
| Doug222 (Doug222) |
Susan, I agree with you that there is a difference between a person who has a tendency toward homosexuality (sin) and a person who engages in the act (sinful behavior). However, I noticed in both your posts, you took it a step further by pointing out that a person who is a homosexual is not as bad as a person who "engages" in other socially unacceptable behaviors (i.e. molestation, purse snatching, wife beating, etc.) It appears as though you are mixing apples and oranges. In order to make your comparison accurate, you would have to compare a person with a "tendency" toward homosexuality with a person who has a "tendency" toward molestation (or other type of sin). You could then compare a person who engages in the act of homosexuality with a person who engages in any other sin. In that case, they are all on equal footing. As human beings, we all have tendencies toward sin. I have come to understand sin not so much by the things that I do, but by the underlying motive that causes me to do them. That motive is unbelief (I could give some scriptural support for this position if you desire). We all have the "Eve Syndrome." We believe the lie that God is not really capable of providing for our every need, and therefore we seek to get those needs filled through all sorts of behaviors. I am going to say something that may sound blasphemous to some. God is not concerned with whether I am a homosexual, a thief, an axe murderer, a gossiper, etc. He is more concerned with giving me the peace that comes from resting (placing my complete trust) in Him. Which is harder, to conform my external behavior (by hook, crook, or willpower) to a moral code of conduct, or to really believe that God is my everything--beyond lip service? When I truly believe that, my behavior problems will take care of themselves. So with that definition, we find that the list of sins (behaviors) is endless. There are things that are seemingly good (i.e. to be a productive responsible citizen), that could in actually be sin, depending on why I do them. Romans 14 says, "whatever is not of faith is sin." By that definition, I would also say that to continue to identify oneself as a homosexual after you have come to a knowledge of God's saving Grace could (and the operative word is could) still be sin. It would sound like (and I don't want to judge someone's motives) that that person may be using their will power to abstain from a certain behavior (externally), but internally are still struggling with whether God's way is really the best way. It is this internal struggle that I think we will all deal with until the day that Jesus returns. That's why in Romans 8, Paul says:
That is why John writes in 1 John, that these things I write that you sin (unbelieve) not, but if you do sin (unbelieve), we have an advocate in the father. It is human nature for us to sin (not believe), but as God reveals the depths of His love and His trustworthiness more and more, our unbelief decreases. When we look at it from that perspective, our behavior is never an issue--except to reveal the depth of my belief/unbelief. Hopefully that makes sense. It is how the Spirit has revealed the Gospel to me. I know that this is not the message you hear in traditional Christian churches, so if others see it differently, I would be more than glad to listen--especially if you have scriptural support. In His Grace | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
Concerning Homosexuals or any other one of us... Romans 14:4 Who are we to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. I know for a fact that homosexuals think they are beyond God's reach-that their sin is so bad God can't use them. I think they should be included in the Church of God, we all sin and fall short. What about pervasive sin...people who try to do better but can't quite conquer a problem...compulsive liars, gossips, people who drink too much too often? The Lord knows our hearts and if we are his servants he will make us able to stand. Praise God! I am not condoning homosexual practices but I am saying that is between God and the person, we are to show love equally. If we all had to be perfect before we could gain God's promises none of us would be able to stand before God! Praise the Lord we have a new high priest/advocate at the right hand of God-his Son Jesus. | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
Ok, I have just found out that my brother aka "Pheeki's brother" told my mother that if I had it right (about salvation) I wouldn't drink. That makes me feel so bad. I had a glass of wine in front of him at Christmas and now I see I should have taken Paul's advice and not let it be a stumbling block to him. I really thought he was non-judgmental, I guess I was wrong. All I have written him (copious amounts)is all in vain. I feel so discouraged. I am having doubts about the New Covenant too. I have people on all sides of me telling me how wrong I am...the SDA say I have to keep the 10 Commandments, the Messianics say I have to keep all the Law...I really feel like crying. My husband tells me the New Covenant (the tapes I listen to) are Satanic. I want to give up. | ||
| Doug222 (Doug222) |
Pheeki, There is nto a person on this site who cannot relate to the feelings of doubt you are having. We all have them at times. Just the other day, I was asking myself the same thing after reading in Ephesians (I believe) about people being swayed by every wind of doctrine. When I was an Adventist, you could not have convinced me that I was wrong (the same wall we run into when we talk to Adventis now). Since I was in fact wrong then, I began to wonder if maybe I am just as wrong now. However, the difference is that I am in the Word for myself now. I don't read bits and pieces here and there. I don't allow someone else to shape my beliefs. I trust in the Holy SPirit to teach me. Since those doubts arose, I have been steadily in the Word. In the last week, I have read Acts, Ephesians, I and II Timothy, and am halfway through the book of Matthew. The Holy Spirit has confirmed for me time and time again that I am saved by His Righteousness and nothing else. He has also confirmed for me that the same arguments that your brother and the Messianics are offering are the same arguments that Jesus and the Apostles confronted in their day. Hold fast to your faith! Do not return from whence you came. As far as your having a glass of wine, Paul's counsel about not being a stumbling block was to keep you from causing a weaker brother to fall. It was not designed to make legalists think better of you. Remember in Galatians, some of the Jews wanted to "spy out his freedom" so they wanted Titus to be circumcised. Paul refused to give in to them, even for a moment. Read Galatians 2:3-5. In fact, while you are at it, read the entire book of Galatians again in order to put your doubts to rest. May God bless you, and I will pray for you in your struggle. In His Grace Doug | ||
| Insideoutsider (Insideoutsider) |
Pheeki, please don't be discouraged. Remember, the Lord comes and speaks to us calmly, with a loving voice. He doesn't rant, rave, scream or use tangential put-downs like "I saw you drink a glass of wine @ Christmas, therefore you can't know about salvation". I repeat what Colleen said, your brother is struggling with cognitive dissidence. I am going to pray that you do not take it personally, that you can rest in the fact that God will strengthen you with His Spirit and you will know that Christ dwells in your heart by faith. Read Eph. 3:16,17. The Lord Jesus has brought you this far, He is not going to lead you back into bondage. Know that many are praying for you. |
