|Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 5:40 am: || |
My mother said something yesterday that got me thinking. She said Jesus will not touch foot on this earth until it is purified with fire. I don't think that is in the Bible.
|Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 6:20 am: || |
I can't add much here in the form of actual references, but I do remember my Mom telling me that we will know the anti-Christ because he will walk on this earth and Christ will not. I think that this is from Ellen White, but can't remember where she got it from. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's an Ellenism but am unsure if it's grounded in Biblical fact or not.
|Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 6:34 am: || |
More Bible or Ellen. The other day my husband was watching the history channel and they had a thing on Cain and Abel (or covered them in another story). The narrator said that the Lord was pleased with the offering brought by Abel (fruits of the soil), but displeased with the offering brought by Cain (fat portions from first born of flock). In my head an old Ellenism came back and I thought out loud to my husband 'that's because Cain didn't bring what the Lord commanded him and Abel did'. The narrator said the reason for the Lords displeasure in the offering had been a point of debate between bible scholars for years. I looked at my husband and told him I thought I might have just weeded out another Ellenism.
We don't really actually know why the Lord was displeased, but I think the explanation growing up had something to do with the 'meat' that was brought before the Lord. Can anyone else shed any more light on what EGW teaches on this (or what light she 'adds' to the bible on this)? I'd be interested in seeing the explanation that all of you were raised with and even theories on why the Lord accepted one offering and not another.
|Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 6:52 am: || |
Although there is no scriptural reference that I am aware of, I have come to believe that God rejected Cain's offering because it represented the fruit of his labors (remember the curse), whereas Abel's offering represented the fruit of the Creator's labor (life).
I don't have any light to shed on how EGW explained it. On a slightly different note, I will say that she came up with some funky explanations. Take the transfgiguration for example. She said that Moses and Elijah appeared to minister to Jesus. They were chosen because as humans, they could identify with his suffering more than an angel. She also said that Moses represented those who have died and Elijah represents those who will be alive when Jesus returns. When you think about it, this makes no sense at all. She makes no reference to the law and the prophets. I wonder why?
In His Grace
|Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 7:28 am: || |
Because like Moses and Elijah the law and prophets disappeared and only Jesus was left!
|Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 8:58 am: || |
Right on Sabra!!!!!J
|Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 11:06 am: || |
Hebrews 11:4 says that Abel's sacrifice was by faith, so evidently Cain's was just "works" there are two religions essentially, those of works and those of faith. That's my understanding of that story.
So....does the Bible say anywhere that Jesus will not set foot on this earth until it is refined with fire? Or even that the earth will be refined with fire?
|Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 11:21 am: || |
I don't know if it was just a slip of the keyboard, but you have the offerings the wrong way round. Abel brought the offering from the flock, and Cain brought the fruits of the soil, see Genesis 4: 2-7.
One explanation I have heard is that God required a blood sacrifice for sin, which Abel brought and Cain did not. Another idea, is that God was aware of the heart attitude of the two men, and this was more significant than the actual offerings. These are not Adventist explanations, I have no idea what EGW thought.
|Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 12:31 pm: || |
Gracehound, Genesis clearly states that Abel brought "from the best" of his flock. Cain brough food, which WAS an acceptable offering under Jewish law, but the phrase "from the best" is conspicuously absent from the text regarding Cain's offering. Bear with me as I play armchair Ellen for a moment. Abel brought the best of his wealth, the "firstfruits", but Cain did not. Cain probably saw the offering as a legalistic necessity and performed his "duty". Maybe he grabbed some old fruit from off the ground, or quickly grabbed a sack of old grain before he left his tent, but there was no heart towards God in his offering. Because Cain did not regard God with his offering, God did not regard Cain's offering. God tends to treat us however we treat Him...
|Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 12:47 pm: || |
Come on someone,same question,'Will Jesus set foot on this earth?I have wondered that too!!! Colleen,how can I contact you,I have a personal ? for you?You've got my e-mail. Angie
|Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 1:15 pm: || |
He will definately touch the earth when He returns, what I don't know is if it will be what the SDA's are expecting. The Jews didn't recognize Him the first time and ya know, they're "spiritual Israel" They think they are going to heaven for 1000 years first and I know He's coming here for 1000 years.
|Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 1:35 pm: || |
Angie, I'll look up your address and email you. You can also reach me at email@example.com.
The Bible doesn't say Jesus won't touch the earth until it's purified with fire. Christians actually have a lot of different scenarios about Christ's return. Many believe that he will come without touching earth to translate the church and then return and set up the millenial kingdom after the tribulation.
Also, the Bible doesn't say the earth will be purified with fire. It does say in Revelation that heaven and earth will disappear and there will be a new heaven and a new earth--and that happens, according to the texts in Revelation, after the millenium. It doesn't say that the new earth will be the old earth purified, but it doesn't exactly say what it will be. We just know there will be a new heaven and a new earth. Whether that means the old planet will be renewed or whether something new will be here is not clear.
|Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 6:55 pm: || |
Please don't take this as offensive about the issue of will the earth be purified by fire before Jesus comes, but what does it really matter unless you want to try and give someone who believes it some truth about it.
For me when he says I go to prepare a place for you and if I go I will come again to recieve you, I leave the details to Him. As far as arguing about it, it would be useless just like sleep of the dead is useless since No one knows for sure and it does not really matter if we trust God for whatever happens.
I will and do argue the point of sleep of the dead though when someone tells me such as Doug Batchelor that Acts 2:28 and 34 make it clear that sleep of the dead is in fact a truth. That is false teaching the way it is presented and I will call someone on it to do my part in refuting false teaching as I am instructed by my God.
1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
These are things we are not to argue about
1 Timothy 1
4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do
9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
God really has no intention of some man knowing everything about what will happen because there would be no need for Him if that were the case. All He wants from us is Trust in Him that He said He died for our sins and He was raised from the dead so we also could be and that He is coming again to recevie us. Believe it and rest in it.
Trusting you understand my heart, Carol
|Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 6:58 pm: || |
Carol, you're right; God has no intention of our knowing everything. He really does want us to trust Him--completely and for everything. Thanks for that point!
|Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2003 - 5:47 am: || |
It matters not to me. I believe that I will be raptured and return with Him.
WHAT IF-we are raptured, the devil convinces the SDA's that some alien took us, or a nuclear bomb and we come back to rule and reign on this earth and they STILL don't believe it's us or Jesus? That's my thought.
|Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2003 - 7:16 am: || |
Ahem (throat clearing)....the text Angie and Sabra are looking for is Zechariah 14:1-4. I won't post all of it as it's too long for the window of time I have this morning, but here is verse 4:
"And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the montain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.'
But, of course, the SDA answer is 'But this prophecy is conditional!'---O.K., so find me the conditional language!