| Author | Message | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
I am watching TBN, yes, the TBN with the big haired lady, anyways, she isn't on tonight but this woman is on with Juanita Bynum and she just shared the most amazing thing: She said she was praying and asking God how to make people believe (in healing, deliverance, etc.. She said He told her: Because Immanuel lives I expect victory everytime. She thought that was awesome and a perfect discription of the believer. She said as she was meditating on it she saw the word BELIEVE and then these words fell under it: B E L I E V E B-Because E-Emmanuel L-Lives I-I E-Expect V-Victory E-Everytime That's it, that's faith in a word.  | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Sabra, I didn't hear all of what was said, but I would disagree with the conclusion if it goes along with what I have heard on TBN the few times I have tuned in. They seem to be frequently be pushing the name it and claim it "faith" message of: everyone we pray for will be healed. (You can correct me if my assumption is wrong and the speaker didn't end up at that point.) The problem with that is that we WON'T see healing every time we pray. I firmly believe that God heals today, I pray for the sick believing they will be healed, and I know He often heals miraculously. But, we live in an interim period of the kingdom of God being already present yet at the same time it is not fully present. And that's not double talk. Jesus clearly taught that the kingdom of God had arrived. Yet He also clearly pointed forward to a future arrival of the kingdom. It's clear that the disciples also believed this. Right now we see glimpses of His kingdom breaking through. It's why we obey Him to pray for healing. But in praying and having the faith to fully believe that in any case we've prayed for we can expect to see healing, we also know that until the kingdom fully arrives not everyone WILL be healed. The healing not happening has nothing to do with a problem with lack of our faith or the faith of the one being prayed for. It has to do with the kingdom. Maybe it can be compared to the coming of a "day". (It comes to mind as I'm looking out the window watching the day arrive.) As soon as the darkness begins to recede and the light of the sun begins taking over the sky, we say the day has arrived, it's morning. It still takes some time for the sun to fully get up in the sky, but we are enjoying already the benefits of the light it brings. It's the same with the kingdom of God. | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
I'm not sure Lydell, I sometimes wonder if I don't have enough faith. I don't like for people to say, "If it's God's will, they will live or be healed." I think it is always God's will for us to be healthy and live out our years. I think our own will interferes with that. I am not suggesting that those who are not saved have the same protection or provision, they do not, but those of us who are His. According to Ps. 91 at the end He says, because he has set his love upon Me...I will deliver, answer, deliver, honor and with long life I will satisfy him and show him My salvation. Mark 16:16 makes me wonder if we aren't supposed to expect people to be healed in the Name of Jesus for His glory and a testimony. I know there are many times people are not healed and I know my ways are not His ways and He has it all under control. | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
I saw that lady and her "best friend" last night too. I can't get B-E-L-I-E-V-E out of my mind since I heard that. I must say I thought them to be acting (not sincere) and the one lady stated she was a prophet, which turned me off! But when she started to pray for the president, I felt power coming from her! That was some prayer! I guess I am not used to that type of ministry (preaching) and am not comfortable with it yet. Also, the speaking in tounges she did I am not used to either. Do you know why she claims to be a prophet? | ||
| Doug222 (Doug222) |
Sabra, Let me ask a question. If you could be healed in an instant by insisting , by dictaing to God, or you could leave the final decision in God's hands-- which would you do? To claim that our temporal prayers will (or should) always be answered in the very way in which we wish it, and for the very things we want seems to border on presumption. God in all knowing wisdom reads our past, present, and future. He answers prayers in the light of what would be best for us. God is too wise too err and too good to withold any good thing from those who choose to follow him. These were words that I received from a book entitled "Prayer Made Practical" by Frederick Pelser. They were a tremendous comfort to me when my father developed pancreatic cancer a few years ago. I may have shared this before, but the words of Joni Errickson Sentata (sp) came to comfort me then too. She said that after her diving accident, she prayed fervently for healing. She was angry when God "did not deliver." It was then that she realized that God had heard her prayer, and she was going to receive healing. It was just going to be 50 years delayed. I think we have to realize that we have a micro view of the world, and tend to look at things as they relate to the "here and now." God has an eternal view. Our four score and ten years here is but a blip on the radar screen as far as he is concerned. He is far more concerned with giving us eternal things, than he is in extending our temporal life here. That's just my opinion. In His Grace Doug | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Pheeki, I don't know if she is a prophet or not, I haven't heard her predict anything. They are a little loud for sure. I have a dear friend who is Pentecostal and african-american, she is the same way and I know she loves God, guess they just worship in their own way. Doug, I agree with you, God does know best and I definately want His will over mine. What do you take from Mark 16:16? What does He expect us to expect? Are we to know Him so well that we understand His will in a particular situation. Jesus went around healing people with few words and He said we would do greater things. What does that mean? | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
And.....the acronym (Is that right??) says, EXPECT victory everytime, not that we will get it everytime. Isn't that what faith is? We pray for protection, healing, and surely we don't expect the worse, we pray for the best and leave it in God's hands. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
When Paul talks about spiritual gifts, (1 Cor. 12 and 14, for instance,) he makes it really clear that he gives them according to HIS will. I believe that He also empowers people to do miracles and healings according to his will--and also according to His timing. I've come to believe that God wants us to primarily focus on relating to Him, on surrendering ourselves and allowing him to glorify himself through us according to his plan and will. Sometimes he clearly asks us to intercede for healing or for truth and justice to prevail. Sometimes he clearly asks us to pray for people without seeing or knowing how or when he will answer. The problem of the functioning of the gifts has cleared up for me quite a lot since I've begun to see them as things God will accomplish for his glory in his own time, place, and way. My calling is to pray for people while simultaneously leaving them in God's hands. The problem with focussing on prayer making things happen is that it's NOT prayer that makes things happen. It's God. Our focus has to be on Jesus, and our hearts need to be surrendered and willing to respond to him and on behalf of others as God puts things on our hearts. I know that when Greg Taylor visited Uganda this winter to encourage and help the former Adventist pastors there who were struggling with what to do next, there were many miracles of healing and divine intercession that accompanied his meetings. There are many people there who have been praying for a work of God that they felt impressed was coming to their area, and when Greg arrived, they prayed for his meetings and for the people coming. Many amazing things happened. God still works the miracles of Mark 16, but only He has the understanding to know when those things will be truly for his glory and the confirmation of truth. Greg certainly did not know before he left for Uganda that those miracles would happen there. But they did. We can trust God to intervene in powerful or subtle ways when we pray. And we need to be willing to be trusting and patient while we simultaneously pray without ceasing, boldly coming before God's throne with our requests. His answers depend upon His will, not upon our ability to pray right. I'm so thankful for HIS sovereignty! Colleen | ||
| Doug222 (Doug222) |
Colleen, Thanks for this comment:
A church I previously attended had a very active prayer ministry, but I got the impression that many of the "prayer warriors" saw themselves as having a "prayer gun" that they could use as they saw fit. I know this may be controversial, but one of the things they did was encourage (aka guilt) members into being part of "prayer walks." They would go to different neighborhoods and walk/drive the streets, bathing them in prayer. I always had this feeling that in doing so, they were taking unto themselves the role of being "dispensers of God's blessings." There were other things that were done as well, but they all seemed to place the focus on the prayer (and more importantly the pray-er) rather than God's sovereign will. Having said that, I will be the first to say that much about prayer remains a mystery to me, and therefore I am not in a position to judge. In His Grace Doug | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Doug, I think intercession is a gift too. We aren't all intercessors. I always remember "You have not because you ask not" I ask for some really silly things like when we moved it was raining and I prayed that maybe the rain could stop just until we got the Uhaul unloaded, well, it did and as soon as we finished it started pouring. My cousin says she can not get her car trunk open unless she prays first, it's broken, her husband laughs at her but he can never get it opened. I looked everywhere for about two days for my girls social security cards then duh, I prayed about finding them, about two minutes later, there they were, Same with the dryer cord... Oh my, air raid sirens are sounding over Bagdad, it's 9:53 my time, they reported 3 explosions, guess it's on. | ||
| Doug222 (Doug222) |
Sabra, I don't want to give you the impression that I do not believe in intercessory prayer. I also believe that we can pray to God about anything. Maybe you are right about intercessory prayer being a gift. I do not necessarily think it is one of my strong points, and have tended to believe that it has to do with my spiritual maturity. Maybe it just isn't where I am gifted. I could give you examples of how I thought the ministry/gift was abused, but it probably wouldn't serve any useful purpose. I just wanted to make sure you understood that I was not against prayer or intercessory prayer. Doug | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Sabra, I also agree that God expects us to ask, and not to give up. I believe that as we pray and learn to trust him more, he also teaches us how to pray for his will and how to let him make his will our will. I've also had remarkable "trivial" answers to prayer, and I know they were from God. He truly does do for us whatever we need in order to learn to know and understand him more and more deeply and to truly worship him. He is so faithful tous! Colleen | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
I believe prayer is very effective as long as it is God's Will. Thinking of the Apostle Paul and his thorn. He prayed 3 times for it to be gone and it didn't go away. Rather, Paul tells us that God said "My Grace is sufficient" 2 Cor. 12:7-10 in answer to Pauls 3 pleas to God. So Paul boasts in his weaknesses! That's one I cling to sometimes. And yet, I've seen miracles and have been a miracle of God myself more than once. For me, it all boils down to God's Will. He ALONE is Sovereign and decides these things and He ALONE knows why. I always keep in mind too, the book of Job. Now, there's a book to read! That's how I look at prayer. And yes, I too experience (almost daily) those 'little thing' prayers. They are awesome each and every single time for me. Ever reminding me that God Almighty Himself Hears me. Very comforting to say the least. And my praise always goes up to Him each and every single time that happens too.......can't help myself. I'm forever being amazed by our Great God Jesus the Christ! And speaking of the prayers 'unvoiced' but 'heartfelt,' it just happened that today I've had many people here all shook up over this war. Some were new converts, some unbelievers and some fairly weathered Christians. Now, all of them, for whatever reason showed here today to ask me questions. Why me, I have no clue...but here they were. Well, a little heated dialogue ensued between myself and one another Christian regarding Jesus's own Words. Then some of the new converts were asking me a TON of questions and had been reading out of the book of Revelation to boot (no, I didn't lead them there). So here, in my livingroom, I've got one heated dialogue going on while I'm trying to hold up Jesus Christ's Own Words, with new converts here on top of that (so my thought was very much on them) and these new converts scared out of their minds due to "old teachings" from their youth. You can bet that by the time everyone left.....I was exhausted and praying to God, that I've taught His Word correctly. For I had worried about this and always do for some reason. I'm forever praying after an occassion like this that I've not led anyone astray or took text out of context without thinking. Well, not only being online are the very topics (this forum and a few other sites) that yesterday and today were discussed at length (to such an extent that one person actually stayed here all night last night out of fear and anxiety) with these people. Many different topics as you could imagine! Yet, later today, many of the things that have been discussed in this living room were brought up by some really weathered Christians that just happened to show up and this was confirmation for me that I'm not brain dead and that God is indeed my Strength! Then I get online and of course, one topic after another are the subjects of the threads I'm reading on many forums and then different articles. Including......Psalms 91 that just today I was reading outloud with a living room of people here! Someone above mentioned this Psalms and I nearly fell off my chair for the umteenth time tonight. Oh, how I love our Lord and HIS WAYS! With prayer in mind, let us all continue praying for everyone involved in this war. And that God will lead President Bush to do GOD'S Will and not his own. Praying for all of us, In Christ Jesus. Denise Gilmore | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
I realized as I had just noticed the "rapture" thread that, in some few other threads I'd been pretty much calling out for Christian fellowship. I haven't even read the "rapture" thread yet when it hit me that......my prayers have certainly been answered in the last few days as far as Christian fellowship goes. So, I had to quickly jump back to this thread before reading the 'rapture' one to post this post. Can you believe one can be so blind as to not see what has been so clearly given to me by God?!? Well, here's one poster who is amazed at her own blindness to God's answer to my prayers and I'm absolutely sure He heard the prayers of those of you who prayed for me in this arena. My Praise goes to God Almighty, first and foremost for His Ways! And my very heartfelt, love filled thanks goes to all of you who prayed to God in my behalf and that of Arleta's. Thank you! Wow,,,right in front of my eyes, in my own living room and I was over here complaining....Forgive me all that I've complained about and please continue to pray for the seniors, the dis-abled, the transportationless and the hurting. In Christ Jesus, your sister denise | ||
| Carol_2 (Carol_2) |
Wow Denise! God has blessed you! As I was reading your post above about all your visitors and Bible study, I was thinking that same thing. God is certainly using you in a MIGHTY WAY! I will pray for you and your studies. I admire your willingness to be used by God, and pray that I will be so obedient to Him. Love and prayers to all, Carol | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
"you do not have because you do not ask" Sabra, I was thinking about that very verse. Makes you wonder how much stuff we suffer through because we don't bother to ask, doesn't it? Like everyone has said, the sovereignty of God is at work. He is, after all, primarily interested in building us spiritually and His answers to our prayers ALWAYS are connected to that fact. However, I agree with you Sabra that we should most definitely pray with the expectation that we will see victory. We should definitely pray and invite Him to move in power in a situation, as you have with searching for things. To not pray with that expectation is to not have prayed at all, it is not to have prayed in faith at all. It is really to be praying as if God is too small to answer. There are two sides to the problem. We can pray with arrogance that we can command God, or we can pray saying that "oh well it is all up to God" when actually we just plain don't believe or expect He will answer and figure that is our "king's x" if the answer doesn't come as we expect. It's all a matter of balance. We pray recognizing that the power rests in Him not in ourselves. But I think you realize that looking at what you have said. I will strongly disagree with one thing I saw said here. I firmly believe that we are ALL commanded to be intercessors! For instance, if the believer doesn't stand in the gap to pray for the unbelievers salvation, then who is going to do it? If believers don't stand in the gap to pray for our country and our president right now, then who will? Hopefully that is what the folks are doing when they walk around their neighborhoods. I too have met some who get off into the realm where they seem to believe that it is them who makes the things happen. They don't. Prayer is powerful, but there is balance. I believe there are some that the Lord calls to more intense prayer, but I just don't see them as being more officially "intercessors" than the rest of us. And it is never their power that does the stuff. Denise...that's awesome about the Lord leading those folks to you to comfort them. You know, that thing about stressing about whether you ahve said the right things correctly. I believe that is one of satans favorite tools. I'm thinking he figures if he can get us to become consumed by the "I should have saids", then we will become overwhelmed with feelings of inadequacies so we won't even make an effort the next time. Or get into doubting we are hearing God when we are speaking. Hey Sabra, and anyone else interested, wanna here what happened at our church Sunday night in answer to prayer for God to move? ha E-mail me davdell@snowhill.com | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Lydell, I'm glad you re-visited the subject of intercession. I absolutely believe you're right. We are ALL called to pray and to intercede. I knew someone who used to deflect comments about prayer by saying, "Oh, prayer isn't my gift," as an excuse not to be praying about issues or events in his/her life. Every believer is called to pray and to intercede and to boldly ask God to move. And we're to continue praying even when we don't see results. We're also commanded to give thanks in all things. I believe that every Christ-follower's first calling is to pray. Prayer seems to play an important role in the spiritual warfare that surrounds us. Praising God for hearing us and giving us what we really need, Colleen | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Guess I was thinking of those people who pray for hours and hours a day. I pray all day all the time when I think of something to pray for but I don't feel I have the "gift" of staying on my knees for hours. Maybe it comes with maturity or maybe when the kids are gone and I don't have SO much to do! We definately all have a responsibility to be intercessors! | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Yeah, it's a bit hard to stay in prayer for hours with younguns running in and asking questions constantly, isn't it! ha Definitely breaks the concentration. | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
When it comes to intercession, I always think of when Moses had to have his arms lifted up in order for the Israelites to continue winning the battle. For me, this is a lesson to all of us. Each and everyone of us should 'intercede' and help hold up our brothers and sisters in Christ. Just think what would happen if we didn't do that? I'm a firm believer in interecession and have always felt it my Christian obligation to pray for and in behalf of our brothers and sisters in Christ but also TOO, to pray for the unbeliever, that God will open his/her eyes to Spiritual things. Like Elijah or was it Elisha did regarding his servant when the servant saw that they were surrounded by the enemy. Elijah or Elisha prayed for God to open his eyes to the Spiritual reality. (sorry my brain slipped here when it comes to if this was Elijah or Elisha). Seems to me, this was a given. Apparently not all Christians feel this way. I do not believe it is a 'gift.' If we are genuinely born again, it seems to me that this comes as a natural response to all situations. Calling out to our Father in Heaven for help. I've not had parents since age 10. The reality that I now have a Father and He happens to be our God of the Universe, is fantastic to me. I KNOW for a fact that my Father in Heaven hears not only my voiced prayers but He also hears my heart. Afterall, He created this heart. In my lifetime, I've seen so many people who still have their parents and they are taken for granted. And it appears that "God the Father" is also taken for granted "sometimes." This will sound strange perhaps, but I feel blessed that my parents left my life at my young age. This gives me so much more appreciation and great comfort to know that God of Heaven is my Father. Afterall, does He not keep a special eye on the fatherless and the widow? And also too, I feel blessed that my life was NOT a bed of roses and was in fact very chaotic and full of atrocities and sin. This gives me so much joy that my Father in Heaven took note and brought my life to where it's at today. Suppose this could be like many SDAs who are not at all regretting that they were 'decieved' in so many ways. For now they can, all that much more, apreciate the Truth and our Father in Heaven. No, I'll never look back at my life again with any sense of regret. Infact I feel so much more blessed to have had a life that was very much different than most Christians I know. This not only gives me a feeling of AWE about our Father in Heaven but it also helps me in aiding others in seeing what they are NOT seeing nor appreciating. Infact, if anything, I see alot of folks who take way too much for granted and this is sad because it deprives them of the reality of the Riches we have in Christ Jesus. For an example, when someone is complaining that they've just had a fight with their mom or dad and this has devastated them to the point that they are unable to concentrate, work and all they do is cry.........I remind them that they are blessed to STILL have their parents and that one day those same parents will NOT be there. Ultimately this gives them some insight and usually they end up calling their mom or dad to makes things right. Or at the very least, it gives them more appreciation and an acute awareness that they have parents wherein some of us haven't had any since a very young age. Another example: If someone is soooo upset that they have a flat tire and infact they are making such a big deal over this that it makes me either sick or I just start laughing. I remind them that they could be walking everywhere, to work, to the store, to Church, to Bible studies, to the swap meet, to their doctors office, to the hospital to visit a sick friend or relative, to pay bills etc., or "begging for a ride," or be in a wheelchair like me or in leg braces everyday of their lives, barely able to manage their way down the hallway without an extensive amount of pain and complete exhaustion. This usually snaps them out of their little tangent or pity party over their flat tire...well, that is, if they don't let my words fall to the floor as so many are prone to do. There are others who visit from time to time and they are complaining because once again, they have to go home to cook dinner and all they have is chicken to eat again. They literally complain because they have to "go home", "cook dinner" and eat 'chicken AGAIN.' I'm the friendly reminder to folks like that of what dog food tastes like "on the banks of a river", in the 110 temperature, with no friends nor family who would care enough to even help. Let alone allow me to eat this "under a roof, at a table, with loved ones." OH yes, and a stove to cook this "chicken AGAIN." Infact, I go into great detail how me and my dog actually fought over that last little bit of this hot, morsel of wet dogfood. I'll also ask them if they've ever tried grubworm. Now there's a morsel that tastes beautiful when your hungry. Needless to say, they stop their whimpering about "have to cook dinner", "at a stove", "under a roof", with people they love to eat "chicken AGAIN." For others I tell them of the many many times in my life that days and days went by with not a morsel of food. 13 days in one instance and without water. I was found collapsed, with my dog at my side, by this stranger. This stranger took my dog and put him in a nice kennel, and took me to St. Mary's Hospital, wherein I spent 5 weeks recovering. This stranger (who I believe was an angel), also insisted to have a bed in the hospital room with me the entire time I was there. The hospital gave this stranger a bed 5 feet away from me and he NEVER left my side. Upon discharge, this "stranger" disappeared. I could cite so many things it would turn your heads and stomachs, I might add. One day (and many people have asked me to do this), perhaps I'll write a book about my life and what happened. Of course this book would be dedicated to my Father in Heaven for having pity on me and taking me under His Wing and gave me such a beautiful Blessed life, abounding in His Riches and LOVE, that now when I complain, I find myself "repenting" and giving Praise and Thanks to my Father in Heaven for what He Has Done For Me. SOMEBODY OR PROBABLY MANY PEOPLE PRAYED FOR ME IN MY LIFE, while I was not a Christian. To this day, I believe that God heard their prayers (whoever they were) and to this day, I'm more than grateful, as a Christian, to have folks "pray for me." Intercession is essential. I'm a child of God and a child who is very grateful, except for those 'carnal times' when I momentarily forget what HE has done for me. Those 'carnal times,' come and I repent. But I'll NEVER EVER EVER FORGET FROM WHENCE GOD HAS BROUGHT ME. I should hope that none of us do. Glory to my Father in Heaven Forever! Jesus Christ our 'Redeemer!' amen. Denise Gilmore | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Praise God for His work in your life, Denise! And praise Him for calling us all. Colleen | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
May the Lord continue to bless you richly Denise! Love ya sis! | ||
| Janice (Janice) |
Hey everyone, Isn't it great to know that when we don't know what to pray that we have the indwelling Holy Spirit that prays for those things that we can't even begin to put into words? Prayer is no more than talking to God, and I find myself doing that all the time. The bad part is though that many times I whine to him by saying why, why, why, when I should be listening for the answer. On another subject, our preacher spoke on the tongue having roots to hell and being on fire for hell and how we should study in the book of James to learn to bridle our tongues and this is what he showed us: He said that if you don't see the dangers of the tongue, stop to consider that God put it behind two sets of doors (teeth and lips) and it is so hot that he has to keep it watered down with saliva, amen, what an analogy, huh? Bye again, Janice P.S.-Sabra, I really did like what you had to say about parables and especially liked the expounding that you did on the prodigal son, I had never heard it quiet in that light, I have heard similar but not that detailed. Great post! | ||
| Janice (Janice) |
Brad, I just read the story on the home page and thought that what you said was worth repeating, and this part is what I am in reference to: I was set free from the delusion that God wrote the Ten Commandment on stone to signify they were forever. I found out God wrote them on stone because of the stony hearts people have. Wow, that is deep, isn't it? I never really thought of it that way before. Also, you went on to quote the word: Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh. You expounded to us that God will take out the stony heart and give us a heart of flesh and put his Holy Spirit in that heart of flesh. A person with a stony heart is not capable of loving others as Christ loves us until God replaces it with a heart of flesh filled with the Holy Spirit. This is awesome too: Just like the Ten Commandments were on two tables of stone the stony heart is a broken heart that is divided between good and evil. God will give us one heart as it says in Ezek.11:19, and that is the heart of Jesus Christ as the Tree of Life. We all ate from the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil before coming to Christ. The Ten Commandments were written for the Sons of Israel along with the rest of the old covenant laws. The pattern of the tabernacle of David was for the gentiles. The Tabernacle of Moses represented the old covenant ways. King David was gifted to see the new covenant like no other in his time and he dared to move in that direction to some degree when it came to praise and worship and entering into God's presence. Deut. 1:8 is an example of children who have no knowledge of good and evil being able to enter into the promised land with Joshua and Caleb, where as the rest had to take their journey into the wilderness of sin where they received the laws from Moses. The law was a shadow of Christ and what was external and for the nation of Israel became internal and worldwide in the new covenant. This is great edification Brad, and I am certainly looking forward to getting into the four chapters of your book that you sent for me to study. Thanks and God bless you, Janice |
