| Author | Message | ||
| Chyna |
dear everyone, since my first foray into the club this last June, a common theme i have read over and over is fear in Adventist lives. I myself have personally contacted the Adventists I know, including my ex, and boldly asked them to examine their beliefs prayerfully and gave them a few scripture verses, as well as the address to my webpage. out of a list of about fifteen, one replied and not even directly to me. i replied to him, but i have gotten nothing but silence back. Many of you have experienced the same thing after leaving Adventism, that many of your friends and/or family refuse to talk to you. After thinking about that for awhile, that no one will talk to me, including my ex anymore since I denounced Adventism as a cult, is that it has to be the fear keeping them from talking to me. If someone told me I was in a cult. At first I'm sure I'd be angry, but then I'd want to know just exactly how they classified my beliefs as cultic, and I'd feel like it would be NECESSARY to dialogue with this certain person. However, I have had the opposite reaction from Adventists. Instead they have shut me out. The deepest hurts I have received are from the shunning of my ex, and his grandparents whom I knew quite well. Searching for a good way to empathize with this fear I came up with this story, it is not pretty, but here goes. My then boyfriend and I finally brought up how we would choose a church. I wanted us to attend a nondenominational church together, he wanted to attend a Chinese Adventist church. Somehow we started talking about how to raise children again, and I repeated my stance about never in a million years would I put my children in an Adventist school and how it seemed he could only picture that way. in the end I brokenly admitted, "I don't see how we can work out." to which after said that after a long pause Andy said, "I don't see how we can work out either." That was it, I sobbed my heart out right then and there, I thought we had just broken up. but the most peculiar thing happened instead. when I went to leave, he still put his arm around me, was still affectionate. as we stood in the parking lot where he had kissed me for the first time. we stood there, tears streaming from both of our eyes and we kissed. I didn't understand, but my throat was paralyzed by fear. I was so afraid of EVERYTHING that I would say that he would respond to. I was most afraid of the truth that my words would voice of what i thought had just occurred. I swear it was an eternity. I was afraid of voicing the truth because it would make it more real and force our actions: which would be to break up because truth: i would never send my kids to a school that taught cultic doctrine, and truth: he has ALWAYS wanted to send his children to adventist schools JUST as he was raised. two truths force a breaking point. So the truth here that Adventists are afraid to voice is this: they believe in Adventism and its special truths. and the breaking truth is this: Christian believe that Adventism is a cult. what happened after that? I whispered finally, "I want us to work out." and he repeated the same. that night I prayed that God would carve a way for us. anyway, I share this intensely personal story to ask you to share your stories about fear in Adventism. I have heard some in the Childlike faith topic, but I think they would be a moving and compelling persuasion to prove what Adventism is. in Him, Chyna | ||
| Max |
Chyna, As a cultist SDA I remember avoiding certain people who were considered anathema. I remember socially avoiding someone who was ėsuing the churchî for reasons that were entirely righteous. And I -- along with thousands of others at the time -- knew the righteousness of the reasons. To be free of my denial in hindsight, I did so out of fear of loss of professional standing within the cult. --MC | ||
| Valm |
I have no specific story which comes to mind right now. I remember though as a child laying awake at night in fear of the time of trouble. I also remember being afraid of not going to heaven but afraid it wouldn't be all that great when I got there anyhow. As an adult, there were many times I would have anxiety attacks after being on the phone with my parents. They always had their warnings about the last days. There was always something in the news that brought to mind the spirit of prophecy and what would be happening in the last days. They always had news as to how even the SDA church was becoming apostate, a prophecy EGW had made. I would get off the phone and not be able to sit still, talk with anyone, engage in family activity or sleep that night. It took alot of therapy to learn not to react to my family and to also be able to politely change the subject or say something to stop the conversation with out a blow up on their part. Most Adventist MO is shunning someone when they are not doing in their opinion what they should be doing. Or atleast that has been my experience. My family has not shuned me but I am somewhat less in their eyes spiritually. I am never asked to lead in prayer because they believe that my prayers can not be answered in the state I am in. Chyna, as children we are taught that to date a non SDA is asking for trouble. We are strongly encouraged not to put ourselves in that position. We are quoted the Bible text, Two can not walk together unless they be agreed and Do not be unevenly yoked with one another as scripture that states we should not marry outside our faith. Some people fall in love with non SDA's and do so with the thought that once they see "the truth" they will naturally convert. Sometimes this is true but most of the time it is a dilusion. Never does an SDA enter a Bible study with another Christian to find areas of agreement or truth. The whole idea is to convert the other person. We are also taught the danger of finding agreement and fellowship with other Christians. Other than to give them the truth there is no purpose. Anthony and his family were deeply dillusioned into thinking they could convert you. When they realized that that was not going to happen their belief system required them to forsake you. His family does it because they wish to protect him from a potential marriage and a change in his own beliefs. He does it perhaps out of fear of changing or realizing that your relationship could not work with such disparent beliefs. I do not know. Fear of changing could be fear of loosing salvation or fear of leaving an system that encompasses all he knows about the rules of life. I do not know. There certainly is alot of fear in Adventist life. And I think people like you bring up one of the two biggest fears. Risk of damnation and risk of a change that seems too big to overcome. Valerie | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Yeah, that 'damnation' fear is the one that I, at times, still will fight with. I grew up with many denominations to back my fathers beliefs, one of them being SDA. Although, in the end, he stood with the Gospel of Christ. Still, many years later, the fear of damnation will attack me and that's when I open my Bible knowing that in God's Word, I am NOT damned. I also come here and read this forum. But, I do have a tendency to avoid people who insist that I'm damned. This is a struggle for me to not avoid them. Lately in my life, I have deliberately encountered them. By lately, I mean in the past year to year and a half. Deliberately I will invite those in that I know will try to bring me to feeling the damnation but I have God's Holy Word with me and have no fear in most cases. Of course, it depends on if I'm beat down or not too, as to how I react or how my faith holds up. This I have noticed makes a big difference. If I'm all beat down or worn out, as it were, I'm more vulnerable still. Hopefully in the future this too, will change. God Bless everyone, Denise | ||
| Lc |
I know how you all feel, I have been an Adventist most of my life, but stopped attending church some time ago. I still was in heavy with the Adventist way of life as my mother was living in a Seventh Day Adventist Senior apartment with adjoining pre- nursing home care and a Nursing Home on the property as well as the Church. Even though I did not go to service , I was always in fear. I was afraid if the Pope was not well, or if the weather pattern changed. I still worry about these things because I have never met or know of Former Adventists. I feel so out of touch with the world and worry that God will abandon me. | ||
| Sabra |
Lc-Welcome! Now you've met some former Adventists! Great to have you here. Just a little word for your fears: For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height not depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38,39 And Matthew 6:27 Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to your stature------v.33But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. Hope to hear from you again, God bless you in all truth and knowledge, Sabra | ||
| Colleentinker |
Welcome, Lc! I'm so glad to see you here. You will find that you are not alone in your experiences, fears, and questions. The good news is that, as Sabra pointed out above, our fears can be put to rest becaue the love of God is more powerful. God is sovereign; these things in the world are not spinning out-of-control. He reigns! Also remember 1 John 4:18: "There is no fear in love. But perfect loves drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment." God loves us, and his love drives out our fear. Praising God for his love for us! Colleen | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Hello Lc, A big warm welcome to you and thank the Lord that you have now met (although not in person yet) 'former adventists'. That fear factor is a terrible thing to try to live with and we know it all to well, don't we? Seems that for most of us, it was fear that kept us doing the rituals taught us. For we feared if we didn't, we would be 'cut off.' BUT...take heart! Do not fear! Think not that you are here by accident or coincidence. For God has forordained all things. Jesus Christ died for you so you wouldn't be cut off. Now I say from my heart that THAT is the most wonderful news I had ever heard! He also was resurrected and so shall we be. When Jesus Christ died on that cross about 2000 years ago, He shed His blood, took our shame away, took all our sins away FOREVER. Hebrews 7:24-28 reads thus: "But because Jesus lives forever, He has a permanent priesthood. Therefore He is able to SAVE COMPLETELY those who come to God through Him, because He always lives to intercede for them. Such a high priest meets our need--One who is Holy, Blameless, Pure, Set Apart from sinners, Exalted ABOVE the HEAVENS. Unlike the other high priests, He does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for His own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins ONCE FOR ALL WHEN HE OFFERED HIMSELF. For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak; but the OATH WHICH CAME AFTER THE LAW, appointed the Son, who has been MADE PERFECT FOREVER." He cried "IT IS FINISHED." Meaning, you, if you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, lived a perfect life by fulfilling ALL the law, Died for your sins by Crucifiction, making COMPLETE atonement for you and you have repented and accepted Him as your SAVIOR....well then, you have no need to worry nor fear. Infact here, listen to Him: John 6:35 "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will NEVER go hungry, and he who BELIEVES in me will never be thirsty." John 6:36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. John 6:37 "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and WHOEVER comes to me I will NEVER drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of Him who sent me. And this is the will of Him who sent me, that I shall LOSE NONE of all that He has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that EVERYONE who looks to the Son and BELIEVES in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:32-33 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from Heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the TRUE BREAD from Heaven. For the Bread of God is He who comes down from Heaven and gives life to the world." John 6:27 "Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man WILL GIVE YOU. On HIM God the Father has placed His seal of approval." Lc, I sure hope and pray that you stay around and chat some more and we can all grow in the faith together. This is a blessing for me to type to you and may our Lord Jesus Christ be with you forever and give you HIS peace. This He will do if you are so willing. Grace and Peace always, your sister in Christ our Eternal redeemer DtB | ||
| Carol_2 |
Lc - welcome from one who has just recently become a "former" - we will all be praying for you, most of all to have the peace and assurance God intends for us all to experience. love and prayers, carol | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
I hope this is the approiate heading to put what I want to write about. I spent the evening at my mothers. She has been going through boxes of accumalated things. She came across a book printed by Pacific Press copyright date, 1993. The author of the book is, Marvin Moore and the title of the book is, "The Anit-Christ and the New World Order". Have any of you out there read this book? I wish every one of you could! It is the most outrageous book I think I have ever read that didn't come off the fiction section of the bookstore! It's a small paperback. The MAIN thrust of the book is how evil the Catholic church is. The second main thrust of the book is how evil all Sunday keeping Christin churches are and the third main point of the book is how evil the right-wing political proponants in the United States are because they want to make all the SDA's bow to the pope who is going to bring in Sunday laws. However, there was one paragraph I really got a chuckle out of. The author of the book had to have a business meeting with a devoted Baptist one day. The subject of religion came up and the SDA asked the Baptist if he'd like to know the teachings of the SDA church, especially regarding end-time events that will lead up to the second coming of Christ. The Baptist said he would like to know the SDA teachings on that so the SDA explained all the SDA doctrines about everything to the Baptist. After the SDA finished he asked the Baptist, "What do you think of the SDA doctrines"? And, the Baptist answered, "I think they're stupid". I actually burst out loud laughing at that while at my moms house. She asked me what was so funny in the book I was reading so I read that to her. I don't think she thinks that is as funny as I do. Have any of you read this book? It is totally, 100% a fear producing book! | ||
| Loneviking (Loneviking) |
Sure, fear is the basis for much of what is in the SDA church---that's why I'd label them as a cult. A real, God filled church doesn't operate on fear. The SDA's use this fear (as do the Mormons and JW's) to beat people over the head in order to make them line up and conform to church doctrine, and to keep them from leaving. Many SDA's spend their lives in an Adventist ghetto and have no idea what those so-called evil Sunday keepers are really like. But, that's why so many folks have such a rough time getting away from the SDA church.............. bill | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
I have a Q. that is for anyone but especially anyone in Tennessee might know the answer. My cousins grandmother (other side of his family) lives in a SDA commune in Tennessee. Actually, to accommadate state laws the commune is for tax reasons clasified as a mobil home park. It is way far out in the country and the people are nearly entirely self-suffciant, growing their own food, living off the land, etc., living as closely as Mrs. White said folks should live. The people are all immagrents from Korea and are thus of Korean ethnisity. They weren't allowed to do their historical commune SDA/EGW thing in their hoimeland so they mass migrated to Tennessee so they could do their thing there. Do any of you know anything about this place? Have any of you visited there? My cousins go there several times per year to visit his grandmother. Apparently they just tay on the property, have church services their daily, hav a comnity eating room, etc. I just hope they are not as spun as those folks at Waco were, bless their heats they died because they were so taken in. | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Gee Susan, If it weren't for the EGW part, I'd move there. Sounds like Heaven to me. Well, except for the community eating hall bit....no thanks. I've learned to be quite the loner and the country is real earth not concrete...and it has trees and rivers for fishing. Oh yes,,,and deer hunting! Man do I miss hunting and deer meat! But you're right, if it is as you say, let's pray that it's not like Waco. For Waco was a very sad event. Let's pray that maybe (with an exception of EGWs teachings) they are more like the Quakers who live peaceably and to themselves..very content by the way. That's utopia if it were like that me thinks. Disclaimer: The opinions of this poster do not necessarily represent the opinions of this website nor anyone else posting on this website.  | ||
| Lee (Lee) |
Hi Everyone, At work last week, my SDA boss, who was having a particularly bad day, blew up. He shouted,"I feel like the Holy Spirit is being withdrawn!" He then went on to exclaim about the Wars and rumors of wars, the natural disasters, the moral depravity and so on. I shared some Bible verses with him in the effort to bring so hope to the hopeless picture he was painting. "lo, I am with you always even to the end of the earth." "I will never leave you or forsake you." and others. He thanked me and said, But Ellen White writes... Is it any wonder that a church who believes that the Holy Spirit is going to leave them in their time of greatest need still dosen't believe that they have ever experienced the outpouring of the power of the Holy Spirit? Another SDA collegue in our office said that the local pastor had been preaching this end times message for several weeks and leaving the parishioners feeling hopeless as they left the worship services. Any suggestions on how to combat this particular SDA Teaching? | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Lee, it's real disgusting isn't it? I believe one reason they get off on this tripe is because they are so cloistered away from the Christian world. They literally don't have a clue about the work that Christian groups are doing in the world. Thy don't have a clue, or won't believe it is of God, about any of the work of groups like the Wycliffe Bible Translators. Don't know that there are missionaries working with very specific people groups, like the gypsies, as well as with the Goths, skateboarders, surfers, GenXers. And choose to ignore or demean the interest in spiritual things shown by youth (heck, they've put their own youth to sleep with continuous teachings on the "pillars" of the teachings of the denomination). He sounded hopeless, because he IS hopeless. Remember the SDA teaching is always, "just wait until the time of trouble and then the Spirit will be released and THEN you'll see something happening, tho of course they'll be putting us in prison and chaising us into the mountains." It's really so sad! The Holy Spirit is HERE already. He is NOW working in awesome ways. But they refuse to hear because it doesn't fit their agenda. The only way to combat it is to continue to talk about a very personal Savior and the love relationship you have with Him. Bring up the things He is doing in your life...the practical stuff, no matter how small it seems. When you hear about some mission work that is going on, speak of it with delight. When the words of a song have set your heart aflame with love for God, tell them about your great discovery. When you know of a youth who has demonstrated the love of God to someone, speak of it. Drive them nuts with your real life stories. An excellent Father doesn't abandon His child when there is danger around. Instead He moves in closer than ever. It's really a warped view of the character of God that they are presenting, isn't it? | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Lee, your personal intimacy with God is something they can't argue. As you talk about God's work in your life and in the world, they will know you are not "just talking". The Holy Spirit in you is visible; remember, His purpose is to reveal Christ, and He will do that through you. They may not like what they see, especially if they are resistant to truth. Pray that God will protect you from evil and deception and that He will make you light in darkness and give you His words to speak. God will glorify himself through you, and sometimes he may do that by giving you words, while other times he may do that by holding your tongue. You are in that place as Christ's representative because He is in you. You can trust him to give you his wisdom and words! My prayers for you continue. Colleen | ||
| Kme (Kme) |
I'm always amazed how the Lord leads me to this site perodically, prompting me to take some time to reflect on where I've been and how to deal with present unique challanges. I'm in a unique position now, working with many S.D.A.'s. I sometimes wonder if I'm being hipocritical in some way by doing so. However, it just happens to be in my job description. I seem to be more entangled with S.D.A.'s now than I have in a couple of years in so many ways that I find myself questioning whether or not God is wanting me to be one again! But, then I remember why I left the church and realize once again that I cannot subscribe to any part of those beliefs even though at times it seems I'm fighting an uphill battle. I don't know why God has placed me in this position, but I really have to depend on him to keep my eyes focused on Jesus and not everyone else. Thank you Colleen for your thoughts above and others of you too. I just pop in every once in awhile when I feel the need to find input from someone whos been there too. No one else can really understand. In His Grace, kme | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
The title of this thread is, "...Adventists Are You Living In Fear"? You know, I just got off the phone with a close friend. We've been best friends for nearly 30 years. In fact we met when our oldest children were toddlers and we'd take them to Cradel Roll. She just got off the phone telling me that a former neighbor of hers had once told her, "you know, I'd be so mch happier if I'd never heard of the Adventist religion. But, now that I know the truth I can't turn my back on it because to turn your back on the truth once you know it is to turn away from the gift of eternal life." And, the lady had continued on with how much happier she had been as a Methodist. Now,I just think that is so sad. My friend and I were talking about how God doe not want His people to be sad and miserable in their religion and if this is the case then their religion for sure is not the right religion, well at least not for that person. I believe a persons religion should give contemptment and a peace in ones heart. | ||
| Angie (Angie) |
Susan,yes they live in fear,or I did anyway.I praise the Lord that I am out!But at this very minute,Jerry is at a sabbath meeting!yea everyone that knows my situation,he went back!!!I can already tell the difference in him,very serious about everything,no tv,no meat,no caffine,no anything after sundown except the Bible.Which as a whole,these are not bad things,but the look on his face,all the time,is so depressing that it makes me kinda angery at him.Always thinking he has to do something to get into Gods grace.I know this isn't the subject of this tread,but it is the reason for me getting on while he is gone.Last nite he asked me to write down a list of things that I do now that'I think'are ok,that I didn't think was ok when I was sda.I just told him no,that he can believe what he wants,and that I will believe what I want,and that we won't push each others beliefs on each other.That was my answer then,just so there wouldn't be any conflict.But I know that will not work,he is very over-bearing and thinks things always has to go his way or the hi-way!So here I am,in this situation that I have been dreading for the past 6 months and don't know what to do!!I know that God has a plan,and I really have prayed about this.But I know him,sooner or later he will demand that me and the kids give up this or that b/c he says that it is a sin unto death!!!So prayers is definitly requested,but I will take any advice into consideration also!!!!! God Bless, Angie | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
Well, Angie, I think we have a "cornered tiger" situation going on here. I am sure he is bolstering his defenses because he probably sees you growing while he is not (not that he would \b(ever} admit it.) I am certain things can get pretty difficult in this sort of situation. The only thing I can suggest is that you do not focus on this conflict and instead focus on your faith. Avoid whatever conflict you can. Not much help, I imagine. Jerry (on the other side of the coin) |
