| Author | Message | ||
| Janice (Janice) |
Our two biggest Christian holyday/holiday celebrations that have been defiled with many pagan rituals and symbols is Christmas and Easter. Halloween, believe it or not, is also a mixture of both good and evil characteristics. I will be trying to give everyone research material on these various objects and how they came into play in our American culture, but I think I will wait until tomorrow because my eyes are getting tired and I need to rest them. Looking forward to this study with you. Janice | ||
| Janice (Janice) |
I decided to go ahead and look up the word pagan in Goggle and winced at what all my eyes beheld. Pages and pages of sorcery and witchcraft information were at my disposal with a click of the mouse. I clicked on one page that I thought would give me some information for this thread only to find a "pro pagan workshop" for students of Wicca, Lord help these poor folks, amen? That just blew my mind people. I flipped on through this mess and found a paper on the subject "Should We Celebrate Christmas" and will paste parts of it here but want to state, up front, that I don't agree with it in its entire context. The person that wrote this is taking verses of holy scripture on one subject while applying it to another, so, I don't want to paste any of it here because I feel that it would only serve to confuse instead of enlighten. It does state, however, that many Christians speak against the Catholic traditions of Lent, Ash Wednesday, etc. but fail to recognize that the same types of pagan elements exist in the celebration of Christmas and Easter! But how did these festivals get their start? I will keep this section in my post because of the information given about the origin of Christmas The following is a quote from the 2000 Encyclopædia Britannica, Volume 11 ; page 390. "During the later periods of Roman history, sun worship gained in importance and ultimately led to what has been called a 'solar monotheism.' Nearly all the gods of the period were possessed of Solar qualities, and both Christ and Mithra acquired the traits of solar deities. The feast of Sol and Victus (open unconquered Sun) on December 25th was celebrated with great joy, and eventually this date was taken over by the Christians as Christmas, the birthday of Christ." Notice how it says "both Christ and Mithra acquired the traits of solar deities"? The Christians were apparently trying to get more converts so they tried to "paganize" the Messiah to make Him more attractive to pagans. They even officially brought the feast of the unconquered sun into their worship in 336 AD. This is the origin of Christmas. But the real question is, "Who converted who?" Do we murder to bring a murderer to Jesus? Do we rape to bring a rapist to the Messiah? It is true that by 336AD, the mainstream beliefs of Christianity were already far from the truth the apostles taught anyway. However, even giving them that, shouldn't true believers be teaching the unbelievers the true way of God rather than the unbelievers teaching believers these pagan customs and practices? Certainly! Yet, the Christians not only learned these heathen ways, they also incorporated them into their worship. Scripture says: Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. Today, Christmas is a very popular holiday. However, as is often the case, "what is popular is not always right and what is right is not always popular". Christmas means 'mass for Christ'. The name of the holiday is much newer than the holiday itself. The customs associated with Christmas, in one form or another, have been celebrated for literally thousands of years. 'Christmas' is just a new name for an old holiday. There is no doubt that the customs that are associated with Christmas, as well as the idea of a deity being born on December 25th are of pagan origin. One need only look to an encyclopedia or even many local newspapers in the 12th month of the year to find this truth. The real issue is whether or not we should walk in these customs. So what is so bad about it? Is it just for the children? What should we be teaching our children? Truth or lies? (I do wholeheartedly agree with this statement, it is a very good question that I have asked many, but only after my own two sons were grown and gone as it were, I am guilty as charged in celebrating the traditional Christmas, so, this makes me sound like a hypocrite, doesn't it?) The truth is that the Messiah was not born on December 25th. December 25th is the birthday of nearly every pagan god ever invented! In fact, the pagan customs associated with Christmas are clearly condemned in the scriptures. Paganism/Idolatry is something that is against God. If we know that the roots of Christmas are of pagan origin, shouldn't the roots of our worship be in the scriptures, rather than paganism? Consider the scriptures that I will quote that clearly proclaim that the keeping of these festivals is sinful. Perhaps a section on the origins of these festivals will be added to this Home Page in the future. However, for now I ask that you seek this out for yourself. Yahweh's people should always seek the truth. Consider these scriptures: Jeremiah 10:1-Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: 2-Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3-For the customs of the people [are] vain: for [one] cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4-They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5-They [are] upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also [is it] in them to do good. 6-Forasmuch as [there is] none like unto thee, O LORD; thou [art] great, and thy name [is] great in might. 7-Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? for to thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise [men] of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, [there is] none like unto thee. 8-But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock [is] a doctrine of vanities. Is this where the origin of the Christmas tree began? It was something that I never took time to study before and found it to be very interesting reading, but that wasn't the information that I had about the tree, but I will make mention of it later. (Janice) Back to their article. First of all, Yahweh is telling us in this verse "Do not learn the way of the Gentiles" Don't even learn it, let alone practice it and incorporate it into the worship of Yahweh! Secondly, it says that the Gentiles were dismayed at the signs of heaven. History tells us that when the sun began to go further away from the earth and the days grew shorter in the winter, the sun worshipping Gentiles were "dismayed", and feared that the sun would not return. So they held certain festivals just after the time of the Winter Solstice when it did begin to return. This return of the sun is why December 25th is the birthday of so many solar deities. One of the customs the pagans has was to decorate a tree that they had cut down and fasten it so that would not topple. Yahweh tells us not to learn the way of the heathen. And here He even goes so far as describe a custom that is a way of the heathen. Yet, we see this same custom exist even today which is called the Christmas tree. Have you ever wondered why in the world someone would do something as strange as cut down a tree and put it in their house and then decorate it with all different types of ornaments? Not only is it odd, it is wrong. This custom, along with other pagan customs like it are clearly condemned in this passage. We don't need a prophet to come and tell us today that this custom is wrong. Jeremiah said so a long time ago! This custom, along with other pagan customs like it are clearly condemned in this passage. Other customs include Mistletoe, the Yule log and Santa Claus. If you seek, you will find that these things are rooted in idolatry also. Here is their information on Santa Claus which saves me a lot of time here: All over the world, Santa Claus is God to the children of the world (move the "n" to the end of Santa). Others say 'Father Christmas'. Parents purposely and deliberately lie to their children and tell them that they should fear Santa Claus because "he knows if you've been bad or good". These same parents also lie to their children about the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy. Then they wonder why their children become liars and don't believe the Messiah is real later on in life. (This has always been my question when I discuss these lies we teach our kids, when your children loose that faith in what you are teaching them, how can they be expected to believe in the Messiah when everything else is exposed as a lie?)I also agree with what is said here "This is clearly a total abomination to God". You don't have to look very far in the word of God to find out how much he loathes idolatry and lies. God is the only true Mighty One. Our children look to us and believe every word we say. Do they not deserve the truth? How abominable it is for a believer to teach their children to fear Santa Claus and in so doing creep an idol into the conscience of a child! (Can I get a great big amen here?) I have told my son that IF I had anything to do with raising my grandson that it would be all together different, I would never allow those lies to be taught to my children and hate that I am guilty of it, so thorough was I in the teaching that my children feel guilty if they don't spend a fortune for Christmas, and I told them that the least they could do would be to let my grandson know who paid for their gifts. Lies, lies everything is lies The very foundation of the Christmas holiday is a lie. The Messiah was not born December 25th. He did not ask us to celebrate his birthday. He did not say to set up a tree in our house and decorate it and our houses with anything. Santa Claus does not exist. He doesn't have reindeer that fly and he isn't going to come on December 25th and leave any gifts. Everything is a lie. Is God the originator of this holiday? Or is it the father of lies? Jesus condemned the leaders of that generation for teaching lies: John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. It's high time that we forsake these lies and abide in the truth! Let's forsake this foolish practice of yoking the Messiah (who said "I am the TRUTH") together with lies, for He has nothing to do with lies. Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 5 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. The book of Revelation also predicts that those who hate Yahweh will be glad when the two witnesses of Yahweh die, for they will make merry and have a gift exchange: Revelation 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth. Sound familiar? Mixed worship condemned in scripture Now let's take this a step further. Not only is it sinful in the eyes of Yahweh to practice these traditions, it is also a sin to take these traditions of pagans and apply them to the worship of Yahweh. Deut 12:29-When the LORD thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land; 30-Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. (This is Yahweh warning the children of Israel about what NOT to do when going into the promised land) Not "Let us serve there elohim (gods)" but "HOW did these nations serve there elohim" 31 "You shall not worship Yahweh your Elohim in that way; for every abomination to Yahweh which He hates they have done to their gods; for they burn even their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods. 32 "Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it. Very CLEAR. "Thou shalt not do so unto YAHWEH thy Elohim:" It is abundantly clear. Do not worship Yahweh in that way, the way of the heathen! Do not add to His commandments and do not take away from His commandments. Both Christmas and Easter take pagan festivals and traditions and apply them to the worship of Yahweh. This is clearly condemned here. Would it be right to take a Satanic holiday that Satanists have invented and then incorporate that holiday into the worship of Yahweh? Surely not. Yet all paganism is Satanism. Satan is behind all pagan worship. And whatever god the idolaters worship, they are actually worshipping Satan. 1 Corinthians 10:20 Rather, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to Elohim, and I do not want you to have fellowship with demons. Now consider this next verse: 1Cor 10:21 (NKJV) You cannot drink the cup of Yahweh and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of Yahweh's table and of the table of demons. I don't really care for the version of scripture that was used in this paper and changed most of them to KJV but I am tired and figured that the rest of it spoke for itself. I will be posting more though with some of the other things that I have studied on my own. Good night for now, Janice | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Janice, I have to respectfully disagree with the viewpoints of the authors of the study you've shared in part. I've posted elsewhere my views of Jesus redeeming the world and forever destroying the "clean" and "unclean" distinctions that prevailed during the time of Israel. Whether or not Jesus was born on December 25 (and we know he probably wasn't), that fact is immaterial when we celebreate Him on that day. In fact, as Richard heard one preacher say on the radio about a year ago (he couldn't remember his name), because of Christmas the entire world has heard about Jesus. The name of the holiday, Christ-mass, declares Him, and the fact that Christmas is celebrated around the globe and is known even where it's not celebrated has made the whole world conscious of Jesus in a way that is different from any other deity. Jesus is sovereign, even over evil, and He can redeem any day or custom and made it speak truth about himself. As far as Easter is concerned, we can still time it exactly because of its proximity to Passover. That's why Easter is on a different date each year. The fact that we celebrate Jesus on or near a day that was a pagan festival does not make that holiday evil or questionable. Satan tries to counterfeit every good and real thing God gives us. He has tried to replace God's gift of life and eternal life with consciousness of pagan fertility rites, even before Jesus came. Satan has tried to distract us from the singularity of God becoming a human baby conceived by the Holy Spirit by mimicking miracles and by distracting us with dark traditions and fears. The fact that paganism has infiltrated just about everything does not mean we should cease celebrating. God was here before paganism, and God has defeated the power of paganism and Satn and death, and God will ultimately destroy evil! If we celebrate God and his gifts to us, we allow him to redeem the evil Satan has tried to infuse into our beliefs. Again, whatever we do should be to the Lord, but worrying about paganism being part of Christian traditions is a distraction from the overarching reality and power of God. I believe it's good to know the facts about these things, but the take-home value for me is that Jesus wastes nothingóeven Satan's attempt to distract us from realityóand redeems everything we submit to him! Praise God that he gives us the freedom to celebrate Him and His love and to further proclaim his majesty and sovereignty by allowing Him to redeem even the paganism with which Satan meant to distract us from Jesus! Colleen | ||
| Janice (Janice) |
Colleen, That was great as usual, and I am glad that you did the post because I was really tired this evening, and I have hit a button on this computer that makes everything on the internet appear in verrrrrry small print. It was straining my eyes just to cut and paste, and that 38 miles of driving in the pouring rain didn't help my equilibrium much either. Concerning that post, I did in fact take a lot of the junk out of it, like I said in the post, a lot of it was bunk that only served to confuse, so, I didn't think that it deserved the time it would take to study it. I hope that I wasn't sounding too high and mighty when I took that liberty with their web site. I didn't even bother to reveal the source because I just didn't see a whole lot there other than just some basic facts that I was going to share with Denise. The web site sounded to me like it wanted to basically 'throw the baby out with the wash water' and I do believe that we have great cause for celebration of Christ at Christmas and at Easter. What is your opinion concerning this question: Isn't asking which is the most important of the two, the birth or the resurrection, like asking which is most important in the human body, the brain or the heart? Am I being dumb or am I relating it right? What I mean is that the heart pumps the blood to the brain to keep it conscious but the brain is the instrument that transmits the signal for the heart to pump, right? So, in effect, we should have just as strong a desire to worship baby Jesus as we do our Savior Jesus, amen? If he had not been born, he could not have lived and taught his disciples to become fishers of men. Had he not died, he would not have risen. Had he not risen, he could not have become our high priest and taken his spotless blood to the mercy seat in heaven, and lastly, we would not have received the comforter that dwells within the hearts of God's children that is ever present to lead and guide us in all spiritual truths, amen and amen. Let me know your final decision Colleen as to whether or not you want this thread removed. I respect the committee's final decision on this. In my old Bible Dictionary, printed in 1972, I found this definition of Christmas and want to share it here. Christmas=The anniversary of the birth of Christ, and its-observance; celebrated by most Protestants and by Roman-Catholics on December 25; by Eastern Orthodox churches on January 6; and by the Armenian church on January 19. The first mention of an observance on December 25 is in the time of Constantine, about A.D. 325. The date of the birth of Christ is not known. The word Christmas is formed of Christ+Mass, meaning a mass of religious service in commemoration of the birth of Christ. Whether the early Christians thought of or observed Christmas is not clear. Once introduced, the observance spread throughout Christendom. Some Christian bodies disapprove of the festival. Many customs of pagan origin have become part of Christmas, e.g. the Christmas tree, but most of these no longer have a heathen connation, but have acquired a Christian meaning (e.g., the Christmas tree points upward to God and reminds us of His gifts). A commemoration of the birth of Christ in harmonious keeping with the events surrounding that birth (Luke 2:1-20; Matthew 1:18-2:12) is a natural and normal expression of love and reverence for Jesus Christ. I did tell Denise yesterday that I had hopes of helping her to embrace our Christian holidays and did tell her about how I decorated my tree for the holidays. However, I will go to the edit section and remove this post before anyone else sees it if you think best or if you want to do it, I won't mind. I don't want to argue about it, I was just answering Denise's request. I made an offer and she asked for it, sorry if I got the thread off on a wrong note. I certainly praise God that those changes did take place in history when Jesus hung suspected between heaven and earth with the weight of our sins so heavy on him that God had to turn his back to the ugliness of it all. So many people just want to argue about how we have STILL GOT TO DO THIS AND STILL HAVE TO DO THAT, and it is getting to a point in church history that people just can't endure sound doctrine. That was why I felt it was a sign or something when I had the opportunity arise to purchase a web site. I really felt like God was telling me to begin a site that was based solely on getting the message of grace across to people. I get so excited reading the Pauline Epistles that I just want to sit here for hours looking through the concordances and listening to the various evangelists give commentaries on audio links and such. People go from one extreme to the other on every issue imaginable. Checking out the web site on the cults was a big eye opener for me and those web sites on paganism that I saw today were downright scary. It was like I stated in my letter to you this weekend, the question as to whether or not to answer some charges made against me is like being in a Catch 22 situation and for someone to actually threaten to rip you to shreds with your own writings, so nicely taken out of context while at it, is grounds for legal action in my opinion, and it certainly isn't the mind of Christ, it soon gets to the point where we just want to throw up our arms and quit and that was why I wanted to start up the thread on perseverence and discuss too the effects that pride and arrogance can cause if we aren't careful. God bless and good night, Janice | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Ummm, about this one line: "I respect the committee's final decision on this." What "committee?" Thanks and I need to mention that if a study on the cults can be done on this forum, then why not a study that could help those of us out here, understand about our childhood being taught things about "paganism." My questions, as a member of the Body of Christ, are just as valid. Kinda like the Sabbath. I was taught that too. And In Fact, probably kept a much more stringent Sabbath than any SDA I've ever encountered. I was raised "under the Law." Not just the 10. Denise Gilmore | ||
| Brad_2 (Brad_2) |
When I was an Adventist I dreaded Christmas and Easter because I thought paganism had creaped into those holidays. But it's like this, Sunday was 1st the Day that the Lord had made not the Day of Sun-worship. And God said let there be light and there was light. Jesus then said that He is the light of the world, then He said we are the light of the world. Satan would like to have some more credit for making Sunday a Day to worship the Sun-god. But when we look to Jesus as the light of the world that the first day of creation foreshadowed we bind Satan and His lies about origin of Sunday. Easter = passovers crucifixion. Easter bunnies and eggs are a sign of reproduction and a time of life. As we take the gospel out to the world by celebrating Easter people hear the gospel message and some believe. Therefore the Easter message of the death and resurrection of Christ reproduces born again people. Christmas = can be seen as when days start to get longer and brighter, so to the coming of the Lord will start like the morning star at the end of the night time hours. And as the Day of the Lord becomes brighter the Son of Righteousness will appear with healing in his wings. Now when it is Day light the light of the morning star or moonlight will all be as nothing compared to the light of the Day. Also the Day of the Lord will make all foreshadows and types dissapear because of there fulfillment in Christ. Jesus said in the book of John that He would no longer speak to us figuratively, but plainly so we will understand. | ||
| Lucias (Lucias) |
Been a while since I browsed this board, much less posted. There is a whole genre of logic that goes into the topics cut-n-pasted in the original posts above. Basically correlating a pagan thing with a Christian thing and thus discrediting the Christian day. The devil has his sights set on destroying all that is Christian by mixing truth with error. Now take today what we see happening with the rainbow. It has been siezed upon and now is representing the gays. Yet to a Christian and also a Jew it represents the covenant of God not to destroy the earth with water. Yet using the same logic applied in many of the arguments used against the celebration of the resurrection or of the birth of Christ we would be forced to conclude that the Christian church, by virtue of its use in symbol on stained windows etc, actually was engaged in homosexuality or at least its promotion. Indeed some prominent church people over the centuries have been charged with such things. Naturally the suggestion that the rainbow shows that the christian church promotes homosexuality is false. So the same logic should be suspect when used to try and prove that the celebration of the resurrection is pagan. So if the rainbow has multiple meanings some good and some bad does that mean it has become bad ? Or does it mean that evil has tried once again to glom onto what is good and thus like a parasite destroy it. There is no doubt that there have crept into society and culture the various aspects of paganism as it relates to the observance of the resurrection. Indeed the modern name, Easter, is of pagan origins. But then so is Sunday, Monday, etc. So also is the name of my Achilles tendon. There is also a dispute about when the time to observe the celebration of the resurrection. But this dispute predates Christianity and gets to a dispute within Judiasm itself about when the passover was to have been celebrated itself. My point in all of the above is that I reject the premise that just because the pagans have laid claim to some aspects of a Christian holy day the day itself is therefore corrupt. In every case where I see the "mixed worship" being condemned those people are actually worshipping the foreign God. So to the extent that we, as Christians, celebrate the fertility aspects of Easter, to the extend we honor the bunny and the eggs we may stand condemned. But when we stand on these holy days proclaiming the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ we do so as Gods redeemed and we honor and proclaim his death by doing so. Just my thoughts. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Lucias, well said! And in answer to your question, Denise, There is no committee! Praise God for being sovereign over everything! Colleen | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Lucias, This statement: "In every case where I see the "mixed worship" being condemned those people are actually worshipping the foreign God. So to the extent that we, as Christians, celebrate the fertility aspects of Easter, to the extend we honor the bunny and the eggs we may stand condemned. But when we stand on these holy days proclaiming the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ we do so as Gods redeemed and we honor and proclaim his death by doing so." So is this condemning me or agreeing with me? I'm lost unless you put this into a way I can better understand. I'll tell you that I'm NOT condemned. And I do celebrate the Resurrection. I just don't go by the name 'easter' as everyone else might. That doesn't make me condemned for I worship the same God, was baptized into the same faith as yourself. But the name 'easter' offends me. And if it offends me, then I cast it aside and call the day that it is called in the Bible "Resurrection." Need clarification to your conclusion that I pasted please. Thank you, Denise Gilmore, a child of God P.S. Colleen, thank you for the answer on that committee question....phew! That had me wondering.  | ||
| Lucias (Lucias) |
Denise, I was more responding to the general arguments that are so often tied to why easter celebration ( the christian one ) are pagan. These are the same arguments, slightly modified, for why Christmas is pagan. I believe my post would be more directed to what Janice posted though not to her directly. I don't think we are condemned unless our goal is to worship the pagan dieties and the rites of fertility. And I'm sure no one posting here has that as their goal. | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Lucias, Thank you, then I shall take that as a non condemning statement. Peace to your household. your sister in Christ Jesus of Nazareth, Denise Gilmore |
