| Author | Message | ||
| Kme |
Hello everyone. I need some help here. I was just told by an Adventist relative that Ellen White said Jesus would announce the day and hour of his coming shortly (like three or four days) beforehand. This is said to reassure the "Saints" who are being persecuted after the death decree is passed, that his coming is iminnent (sp?) I have looked on the Ellen G. White estate website and cannot find the quote. The closest thing I found was from the Maranatha transcript (I guess you would call it) where the Lord says he will announce the coming. I will try to look that up again and give a better explanation. Anyway, does this ring a bell for anyone? I was truly floored to hear such a thing as I have read in the Bible that no man knoweth the hour nor day, not even the Son. Thanks, kme | ||
| Lydell |
Absolutely, don't remember where it can be found, but do remember having read it. | ||
| Lydell |
Oh, found it after all. That would be Early Writings, pp. 15, 34, 285. "As God has shown me in holy vision ... we heard the voice of God like many waters, which gave us the day and hour of Jesus' coming." I'm thinking there are other places as well. | ||
| Allenette |
ANOTHER BOGUS EGW QUOTE...no offense Lydell..you were just quoting "THE ESTATE"... sheesh, when she contraindicates a traditional Christian book, the BIBLE she doesnt even get called on it very often....except maybe on here. GGG I'm thinking I'm intruding too much on here...gotta go. | ||
| Kme |
Hi again. Ok I went back to the Ellen G. White estate website and got the direct quote. Here goes. Maranatha page 287 "The voice of God is heard from heaven, declaring the day and hour of Jesus' coming, and delivering everlasting covenant to His people. Like peals of loudest thunder His words roll through the earth. He spoke one sentence, and then paused, while the words were rolling through the earth. The Israel of God stood with their eyes fixed upward, listening to the words as they came from the mouth of Jehovah and rolled through the earth like peals of loudest thunder. It was awfully solemn. At the end of every sentence the saints shouted, "Glory! Hallelujah!" The living saints, 144,000 in number, knew and understood the voice, while the wicked thought it was thunder and an earthquake." This is very close to what my relative was saying, except she said Jesus announced it instead of God. Big difference! My husband was even determined to find it saying that would surely prove the falsehood! Since we have gotten rid of our EGW books it's not so easy to find this stuff. Thanks Lydell for the quick responses. I will check Early Writings on the web. Do you think this is the same quote? Was it your understanding also that Jesus is going to say this? If so, is there any scriptural support for that? I certainly don't claim to be an expert on her writings, but I have never heard of Maranatha. Was that a newspaper or a book? Thanks again. kme | ||
| Allenette |
KME: I dont find it comfortable to hang around SDA even former sites, most of the time, EGW gives me the creeps..... whatever she said you should take with a big grain of salt...and get back to reaity. Forget what she said, if any of it makes sense, well, ANYONE could have said it. Back into the woodwork....she wasnt no great brainiac~~ | ||
| Mrkarl |
"The living saints, 144,000 in number, knew and understood the voice, while the wicked thought it was thunder and an earthquake." Maranatha page 287. There is a Bible text which reads, Rev.10:3, "And cried with a loud voice, as [when] a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. 10:4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not." Makes you go Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! Karl | ||
| Mrkarl |
"I certainly don't claim to be an expert on her writings, but I have never heard of Maranatha. Was that a newspaper or a book? Thanks again. kme" KME, It is one of her daily devotionals. Karl | ||
| Mrkarl |
"KME: I dont find it comfortable to hang around SDA even former sites, most of the time, EGW gives me the creeps..... whatever she said you should take with a big grain of salt...and get back to reaity. Forget what she said, if any of it makes sense, well, ANYONE could have said it. Back into the woodwork....she wasnt no great brainiac~~" Allenette, Kinda' in the wrong place? It's ok. Karl | ||
| Andrew_adams |
In my studies over the past few years, I have found over 86 items where EGW differs from the Bible. And finding more. AA | ||
| Sharon |
I kept a few books to reference and I found all three quotes in the pages listed in Early Writings. I am new here and this is my first post. | ||
| Sabra |
Hi Sharon, I don't know which 3 quotes you are talking about but I could sure use some definate error to show to my mother. Is Early Writings a book that is still published and used with the SDA's? I never liked EGW, even as an Adventist and I never got very far into any of her reading. One my mother tried to get me to read was directed at youth, I don't remember the name but i remember reading that young people should be serious and not silly and I thought this woman is a nut! Think it was messages to young people. God saved me from her I believe. ;) Welcome! Sabra | ||
| Lydell |
Welcome Sharon. Glad to see you posting, hope you'll do it more often. | ||
| Fdauns |
I learned this as a youth. It was part of the end time scenario. Of course it is contrary to what Christ himself told us on the Mt. of Olives. It contradicts the no man knows the day nor the hour because it results in certain men knowing the day and the hour, specifically the saved, in this case all 144,00 of them. Sabra, I sympathize with you wanting to find a smoking gun to show your mother but realize that what is clear to you will likely not be clear to another. Over thanksgiving visiting another family member who is SDA I picked up a book that "explained" the various texts in the Bible that "seem" to contradict what adventists teach. Two things struck me, first the need to have a book that explains away various texts should indicated that there is a problem. Secondly the logic contained in the explanations was so faulty it was amusing. From an SDA perspective it is more important to have an explination of why something that seems to point out a problem with the belief system is not really contradicting it than for the explination itself to be coherent. In the case of the passage this thread is discussing the dillema is resolved by stating "He announces this just as he is coming." Therefore he hasn't told anyone in advance, or at least far enough in advance to matter. No I'm not suggesting this is a valid answer but it is what I have often heard. The fact should be remembered that during the period covered by Early Writings she did in fact believe that the day and hour were known and that Salvation had passed and was no longer an option for those who were not of the "House of Israel". She also, like her other associates, believed the number of the saved was 144,000. | ||
| Sabra |
Fdauns, So what you are saying is that it is hopeless to witness to them? A friend of mine told me today that I can talk all day long to them and it won't do any good unless the Spirit intervenes and tries to move them to an understanding. From my experience, maybe it's true. My mother completely ignores everything I share with her, doesn't even respond, and mostly I have only asked her to read the Bible. She won't even do this! They are so afraid they might be mislead. I have been able to interest my aunt and cousin and they are quite openminded. Of course, they haven't gone to church in years until recently and they now go to a very charismatic SDA church which believes in the gifts of the spirit and grace and I feel that the Lord is working very hard in that church to bring people to truth. I worry about them not accepting the love and the dilusion being put on them to believe the lie, when does their time run out? Aren't we responsible for searching the scriptures or are we just accountable for what we know? I guess I should realize that I can't save the world and preach to the "gentiles" it's very frustrating and disheartening. Especially since my own mother thinks I'm going to hell when I've never been farther from hell in my life! It still amazes me that obvious scripture isn't enough to break the "spell" Sabra | ||
| Lori |
Sabra,...I understand what you are going through for I am in the same situation with my parents. It's very hard!!! I believe that the Spirit is always there intervening--I believe that he is always there giving understanding of "the truth". However, the one thing He can not do is change their volition. He can't make them believe it even if they come to understand it. Don't allow yourself to be burdened with the responsibility of converting your family. You will make yourself miserable and you will damage the relationship you have with them. You can't change their minds, you can't control there volition. There are no magic words; there is no magic scripture to "break the spell" and to free them from their bondage. My parents believe I'm going to hell. That's why they are angry and upset. They love me!!! Sometimes I am bitter because it hurts my feelings that they can't see the relationship I now have with Jesus Christ. But this bitterness is self destructive. I can't change them but I can change how I react to them. When I hand Christ the burden of bitterness I don't react to it and I can respond to them with love on the basis of who and what I am in Christ and not on the basis of their actions. When I confronted my mother about excluding me from salvation she said that she didn't think that I had lost my salvation. They don't believe I have lost my salvation---YET! This is the same typical Adventist response--they leave off the ending which changes the meaning. What she really meant was I haven't lost my salvation unless I die without coming back to the Sabbath first or I haven't lost my salvation unless the tribulation starts and I don't keep the Sabbath. At any rate, they think I'm lost or they wouldn't be so upset. All you can really do is pray for them and leave them in the best hands of all--God. He can take care of it without messing it up. I don't have time to edit. Sorry for any mistakes. | ||
| Fdauns |
Sabra, I'm not saying its useless or that we shouldn't attempt to reach them. Simply that what seems to us to be such a simple fact can be so quickly an summarily dismissed even without a valid reason. I'm in a similar boat as yours with one parent, my set of grandparents going to my still living great-grandmother, my wifes folks are similarly convinced as are her grandparents. And to make things worse they are now convinced that our new daughter will be going to hell by our account. Its not fun, its not easy, and I don't know for sure what the answer there is. One thing I do know though, Paul's comments in Romans 14 (?) about the weak and the strong are relevant here. Without succumbing to the idea that they are right or that we should stop trying to show them the truth we also need to apply the counsel, "Welcome him who is weak but not for arguments about disputable matters". Two of the four people who had the biggest impact on getting me to actually believe in Christianity again were adventist. The third was, then a non-denominational, originally a Catholic, then Church of God, then non-denom, and now Catholic again. The other, I honestly don't know, probably Methodist, the other non-denominational. One of the SDA's has since passed on to Christ. Was she saved ? Absolutely, I can not find a more devoted loving woman who practiced the command of Love one another as I have loved you any more completely. The others as well ? I believe so even the Catholic. I try, sometimes not very well, to live my life the same as I would to any other person. Demonstrating love and compassion but not being confrontational about these things. Just my $0.02 | ||
| Lydell |
Sabra, it could only help you, I think, if you made your mind up now on what issues you will be willing to speak out about. End time events, the papacy, diet, etc. are not important issues. To continually speak up when those things are raised will cause there to be continual strive, would be my guess. What truth is it you most want them to know? Salvation, right? That God has already accomplished it all and the believer is secure with Him, right? That God desires relationship with them, not their following rules and regulations, right? You've got to pick your "battles" carefully...with the guidance of the Spirit. To everything else, pretend you aren't in on the conversation, change the subject, find something to do in the other room, or reply, "you know, I'm really not interested in worrying about how the last events will unfold because I know the Lord will be there through every minute with me". You likely aren't going to be able to speak the magic words that keep them from worrying about you. You can't control what they choose to think. You can only control how you choose to react, respond, or what you let affect you. Our pastor has a phrase for situations like this (and he has been through it...he was the first Christian ever in his Italian Catholic family) "I'm NOT going to let THAT steal my joy!" So yeah, Sabra, your friend is right YOU can talk all day long and they aren't going to hear. It may never come from you. The truth they finally respond to will likely have to come to them from someone outside the family...it's something we have had to accept about unsaved members of our family. I know, it's a hard thing to hear, but it is true. But don't ever feel like the Lord is not going to use you to plant seeds. I believe most strongly that he will! BUT, they have to be HIS seeds that are planted in HIS way in HIS timing. So the way you learn to help your family, is by learning to listen to the Holy Spirit and moving and living under his direction. So never, ever discount the simple ideas he brings to your mind of things you can do in this situation. Might be something as simple as giving them a pretty coffee mug with a simple message of truth on it...while doing the really tough thing of keeping your mouth shut. | ||
| Sabra |
Lydell, You're right, I will try to just be a christian example and show what the Lord has done for me through my example. My mother is already amazed at testimonies I tell her and obvious blessings that come from God and I know she thinks "why is the Lord blessing this lost child?" We have had some truly miraculous healings around here and she is shocked! You don't hear much of that in the SDA church, at least I didn't. I will try my best to be very neutral and show that my confidence is in the Lord. Confidence and peace are hard things to argue with! Thanks to all! | ||
| Colleentinker |
I just want to add my support to you, Sabra, and to say "Amen" to Lori and Fdauns and Lydell above. It sounds as if your mother is somewhat puzzled as well as upset. It seems as if she at least acknowledges that God is blessing you even though she can't figure out why! If she's acknowledging God's involvement, she will probably eventually have to face some of her tough questions. We have a relative who has told us several times that our blessings are coming from Satan because he gives good things to those who leave God in order to confirm them in their error. Also, blessings from Satan convince the unwary onlookers to abandon truth and apostatize. I've come to believe it's true that we accomplish nothing by continuing to pursue arguments and go-nowhere discussions. We may, as Lydell said, plant seeds, but the sprouting and harvest are up to God. It's his job to convict, and we may not know when it happens in another person. So, I continue to pray for them, and I continue to pray about my feelings and attitudes when I meet hostility or rejection. I still get caught off-guard by the anger and defensiveness people display! In all things give thanks! Colleen |
