| Author | Message | ||
| Max |
Exactly so, Patti. That's why all true believers repent and obey. | ||
| Patti |
All of our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. Why would we "witness" to filthy rags? | ||
| Max |
True believers should never witness to their own works. Rather their own works -- repentance and obedience ("filthy rags" though they indeed are) -- nevertheless imperfectly witness to Christ's doing and dying on the cross on the sinner's behalf. | ||
| Joel |
Hello everyone: I am a 17 year old male born again christian from Nova Scotia, Canada. I became a born again christian about 14 months ago, and I really like having bible study and reading it for myself instead of being "spoon feed" like some do. In my studies of the scritpures, right now I would have to say that the Seventh Day Adventist church is the closest church to the bible. I have not studied all the subjects yet, but I see that they hold dear to them the teachings of Jesus himself and the apostles. In my studies I will like to study very indepth, look at all the sides of the particular topic with an open mind. I find it sad how a lot of sda's fail to look at both sides of every argument, and I see some over look arguments of praticualr subjects such as the "sabbath." Since the bible is the word of God I feel there should be no contradictions if this is true. Right now I am doing a study on "Faith" which I will brake down to 4 parts 1)What is faith" 2)Hebrews11 3)Faith and works 4)conclusion After I do my study on faith I will be doing a study on prophecy such as the rapture view. I call it "DISPENIONALST DECEPTION" Left behind truths Discovered. After that I will moving on to defend the sabbath and the law, as I believe the law is still here and the seventh day(saturday) in particular. I will be studying these things indepth and typing up my studies as well as dialoging with other christians on these subjects through email to request to be added to my email list or to dialogue with me on any of the above subjects mentioned you can reach me at: bibletruth@skybiz.com I hope everyone has a great day and God bless "But God demonstrates His own love towards us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Rom5:8) In His love Joel Sexton | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Joel, It is great to see some one that is young interested in studying truth. Are you really 17 or was that a typo? My time has been drawn to other things lately and I seldom post anymore;-(( I would encourage you to study without the writings of EGW. Let the Holy Spirit guide you. Take a look at some of my favorite verses in regards to our salvation and the surity of that salvation. John 3:14-18 NKJ 14"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15ìthat whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16ìFor God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17ìFor God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18ìHe who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." And then: John 5:24 24"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." To me, that says that the judgement of the Wicked is in front of them and the judgement of the Righteous is behind them, 2000 years ago at the cross. Here is the icing....John 10:25-30: "25 I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Fatherís name, they bear witness of Me. 26ìBut you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27ìMy sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28ìAnd I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29ìMy Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Fatherís hand. 30ìI and My Father are one.î When we accept Christ and His finished work, we are born into the family of God. Our dead spirits are now alive with that re-birth. We are forever and eternally God's child and NO one, especially the devil, CAN NOT snatch us out of His hand!! Isn't that great news? And NO! This is NOT to say that we now have license to sin that grace may abound! Our lives change as we listen to the Holy Spirit and we begin to grow in our spiritual lives in the same way that babies grow in understanding, knowledge actions. There is so much to talk about but I must also mention that when the curtain was ripped at Calvary, the Holy Place and the Most Holy Place became one. We now have FULL access to the Most Holy Place through Christ. We don't have to go through all the ceremonies that Israel had to go through. We don't have to observe the shadows any more. We have Christ now. Read Hebrews 4. We have an eternal Sabbath rest "TODAY" and when is today? Today is the day you rest eternally from your own miserable, feeble efforts and accept the rest Christ died to give you. Don't hug the shadow! Hug Christ and accept your eternal citizenship. Again, I'm glad you are here and I'm sure there are those that will be tickled to continue talking to you. Maryann....IBC= Insured By Christ | ||
| Dennis |
Joel, WELCOME to FAF forums! It is refreshing to see that yet another teenager is excited about the Christian faith. In His amazing grace, Dennis J. Fischer E-mail: fischerdj@msn.com | ||
| Lucias (Lucias) |
Resurrecting an old thread simply to re-use the title...... My younger brother visited with me recently. We walked outside at night to go to the car and I took the time to show him some stars. He is 17 and working through the process of finding his direction. I showed him the north star, cassiopia, saturn and jupiter, the big dipper, and asked if he had seen orion. He said "of course" I explained that my wife had never seen orion until I showed it to her very recently. My brother responded "Doesn't she read the Bible ?" I asked him what he meant and he explained that the Bible says the new jerusalem will come through the star in the belt of orion. He also said that heaven is behind that star. I replied "It says that in the Bible" he said that it did. I asked him where, He said "in Revelation". This is a SDA fact derived from Ellen Whites writings that is not in the bible yet my brother didn't know it was not in the bible. This highlights the degree of seperation between the bible and ellens writings, on a practical teaching level, in adventism. Specifically there is no distinction between the two. Now I didn't correct my brother on these points. He still believes heaven lies behind the star in orion's belt. I write the next part so that when faced with error as this we can remember that sometimes there are deeper issues and not argue about "disputable matters". Just cause I don't believe ellen doesn't mean heaven might not be back there eh ? ( half jesting ). Instead I asked my brother when the last time he read his bible was. He said he hadn't read it for several years now. I told him that he should read it. Take a little time every day to read a bit and pray. Topic changed ... Couple days later I was out with my brother again. We talked about voodoo a little. He'd sent me a virtual voodoo card online. I told him that the devil was real and that he should be careful what he looked at and dabbled with. My brother then asked me a simple question, "How do you know if you have a demon ?" A simple point blank question but one that is not very easy to answer. I asked if he thought he had one. He said he didn't know. He had asked for one a few times now and wondered if he had one. He didn't really want one but now wasn't sure if he had one. He's done some bad things, hard to explain things, lately and he thinks it might be a demon making him do it. To tell you the truth I wonder myself. He told me he keeps a Bible laying out on the dresser in the room. He figures the devil won't bother him if he has a bible laying out. We talked I explained that he should get rid of everything related to this topic when he got home. Get it all out of the house. Pray to God, read the word, get involved with the Christian group that meets at his school in the mornings. And then driving home at night with him, not knowing what else to do, I reached out my hand and placed it on his head ( this is not something I have every done or really see it just felt like the thing to do ) and then with tears in my eyes I prayed aloud to God. I prayed for him to drive the devil from my brother. I prayed for him to protect him and to help him as he journeyed on in life. You know I could have spent the time showing him where he was wrong. How Adventism was wrong, how the Bible is not a magic book to drive off demons with, etc. etc. etc. But to him right now he needs to get on the road to God. Even if he siezes onto it and becomes a devout Adventist I will be a happy man. He didn't turn that night and become a christian again. But he saw his brother urging him in that direction. A brother who has many sins of his own. A brother who found out some of his and still loves him while letting him know where the boundaries are. A brother who pleads with him to not throw away his earthly life by his own actions or his eternal one as well. It took me a long time to see the light. Even now I wander sometimes. I have faith that in time we will wear him down. But you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Just remember this story next time you deal with the real errors of someone who is or once was an adventist. There can be much more depth and progress sometimes by ignoring the non-essential matters, diet, days of worship, etc. (See Rom 14) and welcoming each other in love. Do me a favor. Pray for us both. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Lucias, it's so good to hear from you again! I will be praying for you and for your brother. Praise God you were responsive to your brother and to the Holy Spirit! I'm certain that your prayer over your brother was more impacting than you know. Colleen | ||
| Carol_2 (Carol_2) |
Thank you so much Lucias for sharing your story. It means so much to me, and I hope will be a lesson for all of us. May God continue to bless you and your family. Carol #2 | ||
| Speakeasy (Speakeasy) |
Can anybody help me out on an SDA Topic about Spiritual Babylon and you must come out of the system. I am having some problems on this topic. This topic sounds like the SDA have this idea thought out and backed by scripture. But it is unsettling to me. So any help would be great. Start from the beginning. Speakeasy | ||
| Gatororeo7 (Gatororeo7) |
My understanding is that is all goes back to the 1844 Disappointment. If you remember, the Millerites got a lot of <honest> flack for believing as they did, and this made several of their leaders, not to mention the Whites, extremely upset. They honestly believed that everyone else was wrong and only they were right. (Sound familiar?) Well after the Disappointment, the Adventists that formed from the Millerites, as they were forming the investigative judgment, took out their anger on the Protestants who tried to correct them. Then they took from history that The Protestant reformation came as a result of anger with the Catholic Church and there you had it. They determined that the Cathoilic Chucch was the center of the problem the whole time so they pinned it all on the pope. And since Protestants were at one time Catholics, they were evil too. (Mental pictre of Dr. Evil and Mini Me, hehe). | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
Lucias, That was such a heartrendering story. I know its real because I have been there myself and felt so much compassion for you and your bother. While I will agree with you that honey catches more flies than vinegar I also believe that there are times when in fact we must stand up and dispel error with truth. I have a 10 year record(I do not say this for glory but rather as a statement of fact) of loving my son-in-law unconditionally when he did things which were not approved by me but when I asked God what to do He said Love Him and you will have an opportunity to witness to him someday. Today as I was reading my Bible thru in a year I came to Luke 21:12 But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name's sake. 13But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. I will pray for you and your brother that he will ask more and more questions and just like scripture says and you have already experienced Luke 21:14 Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist. May the resurrected Lord be with you and your brother, Carol | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
My prayers go out to you and your little brother. I, had an interesting experience yesterday. I was at the medical center getting a procedure done (a colonoscoopy, all is fine, I'm o.k.) and the nurse in my room hapened to be my cousins best friend from elementary school at the local SDA school. She has not attended SDA for years and let me know she is very involved with her church which is called Vineyard Fellowshilp. When I went to visit my mother last evening I told Mom about my nurse being my cousins best friend from years ago. Of course, my mother asked if she was still an Adventist and I told my mom she wasn't and where she attends church and I mentioned that God is really blessing this ladies church with miracles, etc. My mom did not come right out and say it but I got the impression that she dosen't believe God will bless a whore of Babalyon, In fact, I recall as a child being taught that in the last days it will seem like the Sunday-keeping churches are being blessed but really that is satan making it seem like God is blessing the Sunday-keeping churches and we can then know for sure the SDA church is the right church because satan would not want to bless the one true church. Oh, the thot plickens! What rubbish! | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Speakeasy, spiritual Babylon, according to the Adventists, is false religion including all Sunday-keeping churches. Joel was right, above, in his conclusions regarding both Catholics and Christians being considered Babylon if they don't worship on Saturday. The true church will keep Sabbath first and foremost and will claim Christianity, according to the SDAs. Indeed, they perceive the pope to be the eventual antichrist and the Catholics to be responsible for seducing most of Christianity into Babylon with them. "Come out of her, my people," is the cry to those true Christians who want to be saved, and it is a call to leave Sunday-keeping and align themselves with the Sabbath, the final test of readiness for heaven. This is a simplifled version, but it is essentially IT. Many modern Adventists, especially in liberal places such as Southern California, do not claim this belief, yet if they are questioned closely, they will not renounce the seventh day. Even thought they say the day has nothing to do with their salvation, still they insist that they must keep it. They'll use many different reasons for their insistence including, "What if it really does turn out to be the final test?" and "I keep it because it's how I show God I love him." Etc. Praise God for making us His! Colleen | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Question, What do you do withEx. 16:22-30 showing that the Sabbath was observed before Sinai in light of Duet 5:2&3 showing that the covenant wasn't made before Sinai??? | ||
| Speakeasy (Speakeasy) |
Colleen Thanks for your input. Keep them coming. The more I have on these subjects to study about and to set my mind at ease and to defend myself is great. You and this website have been a blessing. Sabra on Ex. 16 Passage. To me it may seem that it does point to observing the sabbath. But someone may have to correct me. But when Moses wrote the Torah. would he not since God named the 7th day "THE SABBATH" would Moses not have always from then on and when he wrote the Torah say that "since it's the sabbath" To always mean the 7th day. I don't know if I am making this clear. I guess another way of saying this is "The 7th day to Moses everytime he would put the pen to paper would always call the 7th day THE SABBATH" and never call it after the revelation from God never call the sabbath the 7th day any more. I hope I didn't mess you up. Speakeasy | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
hu? | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
Speakeasy, please clarify, I want to know what you are trying to say. | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
Sabra, Think of it this way: The Law of Moses was put together in a complete, formalized form starting in Exodus 20. However, the Sabbath day was introduced just a little earlier in Exodus 16. Other elements of what became the Law were introduced earlier as well. Circumcision, an element of the Abrahamic Covenant, was included in the Law as expressed in Leviticus 12:3. If you look at Exodus 16, you can see that this was an incomplete Sabbath observance, a fore-taste of the Sabbath. This is similar to many legal agreements. Elements of the U.S. Constitution were in previous legal documents. What is true, however, is that we have no evidence that any Sabbath, in any form where any person was required to observe it, existed prior to Exodus. Furthermore, until Exodus 20, the Sabbath was not a perpetual or permanent command. There is no language in Exodus 16 commanding continued observance as a sign of relationship to any Covenant as it was later. As for what Speakeasy was saying, Iíll leave it to him to explain. If I understand what he meant, I think what he said is reasonable. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Good question, Sabra. The account of the manna is the first account in the Bible of the Sabbath being required. Nehemiah 9:13-14 clarifies that the Sabbath was not a covenant obligation until Sinai. What I make of it is this: God gave Israel the law in order to organize them, to make them a nation, and to establish his own standards instead of pagan ones as their guides for living. Even though the formal covenant at Sinai hadn't happened yet when He provided the manna, God still required the Israelites to observe the Sabbath as a pointer to Him. He is the source of their success and provisions and strength. He sent manna only six days a week so they would have no other choice but to rest in him and trust him for his miraculous provision on the seventh day. Even then, before the oficial law, the seventh day was a shadow of Christ. It was the day they didn't have to pick up their own food. God miraculously preserved the manna (it spoiled if they kept it overnight on any other day) on Sabbath, and Israel had before them a tangible reminder that God does the work of saving and preserving them, not they themselves. Again, there is no mention of obligatory Sabbath observance before Exodus 16, and never does the command for the seventh day occur for Gentiles. It was the foreshadowing of the covenant symbol which God gave them later at Sinai. (Sabbath and circumcision were the signs of the covenant between God and Israel. Circumcision also predated Sinai; it began with Abraham.) Colleen |
