| Author | Message | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
The Catholic church has an authorized translation that I really like called The New Jeresulem Translastion.It is very easy to read and to understand. The New Revised Standard Version that I like so much is used in the denomination that I am a member of which is the Evengical Lutheran Congreations of America, otherwise known as the ELCA. Some of the churches have the pew Bibles with the Apocrapha but most of the churches don'y have it in their pew bibles. I inderstand it all depends on how much the individfual congreations want to spend of the pew Bibles as the ones containing the Apocropha are considerbly more expensive. The ELCA doesn't accept the Apocrapha as the Catholics do as part of the holy word of God but they do refer to it frequently as it is very accurate in the history of that time and in that region and provides a good learning experience. | ||
| Angie (Angie) |
In the book,Cultic Doctrin,Dale quotes some from the books of Macabees,which in turn,led me to the true understanding of Daniel 8&9.I have looked for the Apocraph but couldn't find it,I didn't know it was included in the NRSV,but I can't find one of those either!I did go to a book store and they ordered me the book recommened on the forem about the soul after death,I'll be so glad when it arrives!!!God Bless! Angie | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
Angie, I would just like to tell you the best book I have found on soul after death is the Bible and these verses. John 14 2In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4You know the way to the place where I am going." Please do not take this wrong, I am just telling you what I have come to be totally secure in and that is that He has it all planned and I am sure whatever it is I will be satified since I totally trust in Him. Having said that I know that I have not walked in your shoes and likewise you have not walked in mine and because of our differences I believe that God has lead each of us to other believers so that we together might learn collectively. Praise God I just figured out how to bring something from another site (Bible Gateway) onto this post now I don't have to spend hours typing in verses. Thank you Jesus. I have only had a computer since Nov. 2001 and Internet since February of 2002 and the best way for me to learn is by trial and error. I have asked my son who is a computer guru how to do it so many times but it has just not clicked until today. Resting in the Sovereignty of God, Carol | ||
| Angie (Angie) |
I have a question.I was re-reading 1Cor.in my NLT and in chapter 14 under'a call to orderly worship'[14:26-39]it says women should be silent in church,and ask their husbands when they get home if they have any questions.Since it is in the NT,is that saying exactly what it reads??And another thing,in the same verses,when it says that when one talks in tounge,there has to be someone there to translate.Okay,if you're sitting there in church,and the preacher busts out in tounges,without a translater,is this a sign of him being false??It always bothered me even before SDA b/c I thought what was the point.Now,when I see it,I really think that. Angie | ||
| Loneviking (Loneviking) |
Yes and Yes.............that's the short answer. Remember that the 20th century American culture is different from that of the 1st century Greek. Apparently there were problems of arguing between family members, especially with the women, during the services. We don't generally have that problem today, and usually any discussion is done after the service. And yes, one of the reasons I tend to stay away from blatantly Pentecostal churches is because of their unscriptural views and practices of tongues. (They usually have equally bizarre interpretations and applications of other miraculous gifts). If the preacher (or others up front) start speaking in unknown tongues you can bet I'm headed for the exit! | ||
| Angie (Angie) |
So,all these tv shows on TBN,and other stations,are wrong when they start doing this?If that is so,most of them are wrong?? Angie | ||
| Doug222 (Doug222) |
I know I am going to get in trouble for saying this, so I'll throw a disclaimer up front. please read my entire statement before you respond, because I am going to say something that if taken out of context will sound very sexist.I am only speaking based upon a rudimentary knowledge of the tongues movement, and I am repeating something that I heard elsewhere--in the SDA Church no less. But, if women adhered to the learning in silence instruction, it would be the death of the tongues movement in the church today. I firmly believe that the instruction to learn in silence was cultural in nature. I don't believe it is applicable today. However, as I understand it, the problem with the church at Corinth stemmed from women mimicing the sounds made at the pagan temples that were prevalent in the city. The result, was mass confusion in the church. Thus, Paul's instruction to learn in silence. Today, as I understand it, speaking in tongues occurs predominantly (although not totally) by women. I am not going to judge the authenticity of the gift for any individual, but I have difficulty with the idea that 1) everyone needs to possess the gift; 2) that God has given the gift almost exclusively to one gender; or 3) that it should be the central focus of the worship experience. I believe tongues exists (manifested both as a prayer language and as a foreign) in different circumstances, but I think it is also viewed by many as "signs and wonders." It is not for me to distinguish who is doing which. Hopefully I have not ruffled too many feathers. If I have I apologize. This is a sensitive topic--just like the diversity issue. In His Grace Doug | ||
| Freeatlast (Freeatlast) |
TBN - The Blasphemy Network. 90% of what they put on is either word-of-faith movement hooey or "feel-good" prosperity gospel. There is some substance there, but you have to wade through so much garbage to get any gold nuggets that it's hardly worth it anymore. I tend to stick with radio or print ministries myself these days. | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Freeatlast, to be entirely evenhanded, you would have to admit that one can pick up on an equal amount of confusion of doctrine by listening to Christian radio or reading books. (And I'm far from being a huge fan of TGN!) Or for that matter attending a vast variety of Bible studies. The problem comes when we shut down the use of the gift of discernment and just allow ourselves to be passively fed without comparing what is said to the scriptures. Doug, I'll agree with much of what you have to say. The bit with women keeping silent was a cultural problem of the day. I have heard tho that it was a matter of women standing up and shouting across the room to ask their husband a question. Tongues should NEVER be a primary focus, and it should not be a marker of whether or not someone is really Spirit-filled. And there should never be confusion in a service! But Doug, speaking as someone who is a member of a church where people exercise the gift of tongues, I can tell you absolutely positively that it is NOT something that occurs predominantly in women! The same is true in other charismatic congregations that I'm acquainted with. Really, the idea is very silly. Wherever you picked that up was a rotten source for information for you. I've seen the same silly comment before from some one who clearly had the view that tongues is only real if it is a recognizable "foreign" language. I view it as a "sign" because it doesn't come from man but from God. But maybe that just comes down to a matter of interpretation of terms. | ||
| Doug222 (Doug222) |
Thanks for the clarification Lydell. As I said, it came from a SDA Evangelist, so maybe that explains why the comment was made. Personally, I have only been in a church where the gift of tongues was evident three times. On two of the occasions, there was mass confusion, and I felt very uncomfortable. The third time, there was some speaking of tongues during prayer time, and I almost didn't recognize the fact that it was occurring. It certainly did not draw attention to itself. I apologize if I offended. I'll pleade ignorance. As a side note, I read the book "Fresh SPirit," by Jim Cymbala from the Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir a few years back. One of the things he talked about in the book was praying for people/situations audibly. For example, if someone said "I am having problems in my marriage and I request prayer," the whole congregation would form a circle around them and pray audibly for them in unison. I thought this was a neat idea, so I tried to introduce it at prayer meeting in my SDA church. We would sing a couple songs, then take prayer requests. Rather than take a whole bunch of requests, then ask one person to pray (and forget half of the requests that had been made), we paused after each request and prayed immediately. It was almost funny. Most of the people were VERY uncomfortable with the idea of praying in that manner. I think it sounded too much like speaking in tongues to them. Personally, I liked it because I could be come an active participant in the prayers and it demonstrated an incredible sense of solidarity for the person who was being prayed for. I know this has little to do with the topic at hand, but thought I'd throw it in, since it remotely related to tongues. In His Grace Doug | ||
| Freeatlast (Freeatlast) |
Oh absolutely Lydell! I just tend to try and stay away from the sensational and I have found less of that going on in radio/print than on Television. We must always be on guard to discern error no matter what the source of input. | ||
| Loneviking (Loneviking) |
Angie, I couldn't have said it better than 'Free At Last' did! And Doug 222, sorry, but Lydell is right. I've seen it just as often with men. Tongues was one of the lesser gifts in the Bible. Prophecy, at the time, was the highest gift. And yet, I don't see anything but blatant fakes in the pentecostal churches when it comes to prophecy. Ditto for the rest of the miraculous works. If this ruffles feathers---sorry! | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Angie, From the study I've done the Corinthians were kind of out of control and needed some strict guidelines. I was told that in that time the men an women sat on opposite sides of the 'church' and the men were literate while the women weren't so the women would constantly yell over to their husbands asking "What did that mean?" or whatever and there was a lot of disorder so Paul told them to keep quiet until they got home and then ask their questions. They also covered their heads and I don't think we would want to do that here in the US, people would think we were Muslim, so you have to consider the cultural aspects of everything and I feel if God wants us to be quiet, He'll let us know. Most of the churches that teach women shouldn't pray or lead in the church have no problem sticking them in the Sunday School class and letting them lead there. ------------------------ I don't want to offend anyone about TBN but consider that Jesus said the gospel would be preached around the world and they are the ones with sattelites around the world literally. Don't you think He had something to do with that? I used to be very critical about preachers and I know there are some corrupt people out there but there is that warning not to touch God's annointed so unless I'm sure, without a doubt, I keep quiet. TBN has helped me tremendously and there are some very sound teachers there: Joyce Meyer, Jentezen Franklin, Bishop TD Jakes, My pastor... to name a few of my favorites. If I turn on someone who is not preaching the word I change the channel. I remember telling people speaking in tongues was the devil! Think of all the misinformation we gave when we were ignorant. That's the point, just because they are ignorant or wrong, doesn't mean God isn't working in their lives. | ||
| Angie (Angie) |
Sabra,who is your pastor? Angie | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Ron Phillips  Next weeks sermon is on Jesus being our Sabbath!! | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
Is he on TBN? What time? | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/salttalk/polemicc.htm This ia a lengthy but good article on the Law vs. Grace written to a SDA. | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
TBN 8 am EST Sundays, but the TV is a couple of weeks behind our service. | ||
| Carol_2 (Carol_2) |
Sabra - do you mean Sunday the 16th or Sunday the 23rd? Because we might just take a drive up to visit your church. What time does it start? I guess you should just probably e-mail me with the details. Thanks! Carol #2 | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Ah Doug, no offense taken at all. Pretty funny story about the prayer you tried to get going in the SDA church. I would have liked to witness that! We sometimes pray that way in our church. I can tell you from having had the experience of being the one prayed for, it is an awesome experience. It's a bit like the difference between having someone tell you, "I'll be praying for you," vs. them actually stopping what they are doing and praying for you audibly right there. To hear all the variety in the prayers that people are praying for you (instead of them praying those things silently)just really focuses your attention on the power of God. I know to some who have never experienced prayer this way that might sound odd...listening to peoples prayers lifting your faith to God. Yet it is so very true. It makes you more intensely aware that it really is the Holy Spirit that prompts us in our prayers. To hear all the prayers going on at once turns your heart, mind, and spirit to realize that God is not concerned with just one aspect of your need, as you may have been. Rather He is intimately interested in every issue connected to the need. It is an amazing thing to stand there and hear people praying about points of the problem that you never mentioned to anyone. And I'm always fascinated by the ebb and flow of the prayers when the Spirit is leading. The prayers will fall silent, then several standing in different locations suddenly begin praying about some particular point. It just makes you wonder what the prayers of us here sound like in heaven, you know? Loneviking, I've seen too much, and talked to too many who have witnessed more, to toss out flatly all miraculous works. The Holy Spirit is still very much active today testifying to the Word with signs and wonders. That's a part of the activity of the kingdom. The ones I really really don't like on TBN are that one strange couple....she with all the piled up hair and makeup put on with a scoop, and him with the odd hair piece. ick |
