| Author | Message | ||
| Angie (Angie) |
I need to know some scriptues that deal with,the responsibilty that I have to Jerry Mack,mine and Jerry's son.I tried to show Jerry scipture that ,I thought,says that our sins have nothing to do with him.I believe that until he is of a age of KNOWING right from wrong,then he is rightious in Gods eyes,Jerry on the other hand believes that if he allows me to let Jerry Mack eat meat and all that other egw stuff,then he will be held accountable for that.I read Ezekiel 14:17-20,Ez. 18:4,18:20,&33:20.Do any of you guys know of any other ones that deal with this subject? | ||
| Janice (Janice) |
Angie, This is on the subject of meat eating: 1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 1Ti 4:2 Speaking LIES in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the TRUTH. 1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God [is] good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 1Ti 4:5 For it is SANCTIFIED by the word of God and prayer. 1Ti 4:6 If thou put the brethren in REMEMBRANCE of these things, thou shalt be a GOOD minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of FAITH and of GOOD doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained. Angie, I will send you more information on the rest of your request later. Janice | ||
| Angie (Angie) |
Janice,I know these verses,but sda's think that since mad cow and all the other bactierias[sp],that these verses doesn't apply to now-a days.That is the reason that they don't eat meat,or in Jerry's case,nothing from a animal.So these aren't exactly what I'm looking for.More like,is he responsible for what Jerry Mack does.He thinks it is salvational to eat certain things,watch certain things,I could give you a LONG list of things that he thinks is wrong b/c of egw,so therefore,if he does these things,will he go to Hell for our son doing them.Now keep in mind,I don't agree with what ISN'T in the Bible,but to him,if ellen said it,it's truth!!I guess what my ? is,are we held accountable if our kids are too little to know right from wrong? | ||
| Marykay (Marykay) |
Angie I heard the same thing from my husband. He even thought I would be saved if he was a sda adventist. Just a brain wash. First we all know that it is not a sin to eat meat. That is what counts. So how could you be held accountable. I found a great site www.truthorfables.com. Egw even ate meat and oysters etc. God Bless Marykay | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
Angie, I think what you are trying to say is that your husband (because of EGW's counsel) thinks he is responsible for your son getting to heaven. Somewhere in her writings this idea is given...I will have to look...I suspect in Child Guidance or the Adventist Home. What you are trying to ask (I think) is your son accountable at this age. Is he at the age of reason? I really haven't thought about it but if I were to wager a guess...I would say that each person is under the Law until they are saved. Now if your Son is a believer already the Bible says that there is no condemnation for those in Christ. Your husband can guide him in social behavior, etc. but Christ is the one who saves your son. Just a thought. | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
Angie, Here are a couple of quotes I have found from EGW...this may be where your husband is getting what he says...notice the guilt and the mistrepresentation of the Gospel. Mothers, to a great degree the destiny of your children rests in your hands. If you fail in duty, you may place them in the ranks of the enemy and make them his agents to ruin souls; but by a godly example and faithful discipline you may lead them to Christ and make them the instruments in His hands of saving many souls. If You Have Begun Wrong.--To parents who have begun their training wrong, I would say, Do not despair. You need to be soundly converted to God.(How does she know?) You need the true spirit of obedience to the Word of God. You must make decided reforms in your own customs and practices, conforming your life to the saving principles of the law of God.(So the Law saves us now?) When you do this, you will have the righteousness of Christ which pervades that law, because you love God and recognize His law as a transcript of His character. (Funny I thought Christ was the true transcript of his character...I thought the Law showed us the character of sin?) True faith in the merits of Christ is not fancy. It is of the highest importance that you bring the attributes of Christ into your own life and character, and educate and train your children with persevering effort to be obedient to the commandments of God. A "Thus saith the Lord" should guide you in all your plans of education. . . . Don't get me wrong here, I do think parents should guide their children but I am not sure God is going to hold the parents responsible if the child rejects him, each of us make our own decisions for or against salvation. Again, I am no expert, maybe others can help. | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
Angie, This verse came to my mind John 9 2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? 3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. 4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. If our sins would not cause such would it not remain that our "good works" would also not produce anything in our child. Notice it says but that the works of God should be manifest. It appears to me this would be the prime time for Jesus to teach that we will effect our children's salvation by our "good works" if in fact it would. I know this is probably streaching this verse but when it is contemplated along with other verses, of which I have only touched the surface in the ones below, then in my mind this would not be a viable issue, that being, that our parents could effect our salvation by what they do. Psalm 118 14 The LORD is my strength and my song; he has become my salvation Notice it states very clearly the Lord is our salvation. It does not come from our parents. Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, Here we see it is when you have believed. Our parents cannot do the believing for us it must be our own. Here again ground work can be laid but without Jesus being taught ie His death for remmission of sins His burial for change and His resurrection for Life it will be difficult for a child to come to the word of the truth the gospel of your salvation. I hope this helps. If you have any more questions please feel free to ask. Remember it is only by getting questions answered that you grow. I would also encourage you to read as much as you can on your own. Having said that I know that is hard with young children but when you read and find the answers out for yourself then they are yours and no one can take them away and you can debate much more effectively if this in fact has happened. Love for now, Carol | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
About prayer: I attend a local ELCA Lutheran church. One of the hardest things for me to adapt to at the Lutheran church is when we give our intercessery prayer to God. This is done out loud but private. All the people in the congreation are saying their prayers out loud. It really took me a very long time to adapt to that. I also attend a prayer and praise group at the local Catholic church on Monday evenings. They do a lot of talking in toungs there. It is very soft spoken and very reverant. One would miss it if not being totally aware of what it is. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Angie, I know of no text in the Bible that links a child's salvation to his parents' decisions about his training. While Proverbs does say to train up a child in the way he should go, and he will not depart from it, that does not say children's salvation depends on the parents. It does imply that a parent's training can predispose a child to salvation, however. I completely understand your husband's fear. He BELIEVES that God will hold him responsible for not training his child right. God never said this, though. EGW says that at the judgment, if a person's children are not saved, God will ask them, "Where is thy flock, they beautiful flock?" (I can't remember the source!) I'm sure your husband fears being judged guilty for whatever happens to your son. Our salvation is entirely a work of God. While we must decide to yield to him or not, it is God who draws us to himself and opens our hearts to receive him. It is not our parents' reponsibility. Paul wrote to the Ephesians, "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus ChristÖ" (Eph. 1:4-5) To the Thessalonians he wrote, "From the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth." (2 Thessalonians 2:13) Further, if our job is to train our children so they will not depart from truth, we need to be sure that we are indeed teaching them truth. There is only one place where we can find truth, and that must be from the Bible. Nowhere does the Bible, even in the Old Testament, declare meat to be off-limits. Even the Israelites could eat clean meat (beef, lamb, goat, chicken, turkey, etc.) The New Testament teaches that all those Old Testament restrictions are no longer applicable. (Colossians 2:16; Acts 10:9-16; Matthew 15:10-20) But Bible records that Jesus ate fish, and he certainly blessed and distributed fish to the 5,000 and the 4,000 when he fed them. Speaking as one who has two sons, one who can easily eat meat and one who still cannot tolerate the thought of it passing his lips, I can tell you that I would want to raise my son with the freedom to know meat is food even if he chooses not to eat it when he's older. I have often wished that when my sons were young that they had had meat included in their diet and that they had learned that meat was not a sin or a questionable food. Richard, my husband, still cannot eat meat except in extreme circumstances if nothing else is available. He cannot think of meat as food. He totally believes meat is a non-issue, but the early training and emotional impact of the ban on meat during his childhood has made it hard for him. Some people's temperaments have a much harder time letting go of those deep imprintings than others. An intellectual understanding doesn't change the emotional reaction. Hence, he and my younger son struggle with the idea of meat. Perhaps, if the meat issue is becoming divisive, Angie, your husband would compromise with you, and you could give your son "clean" meats. That way he will be used to the idea of meat being acceptable food, and later he can choose to eat any meat he wishes. I would probably also teach him, as he got older, what the Bible says about no meat being unclean in the new covenant. Ellen strongly counseled against meat, but the SDA church only denies unclean meats. Clean meats are not a test of fellowship. Certainly I would present the Biblical evidence to my husband, if I were you, but I really believe that it will be crucial that you do so respectfully and that you respect his decision to be vegetarian. I would, though, hold out for training my son according to what the Bible says. Adventists claim that they believe the Bible, so he may not argue with you on that point! I continue to pray for you, Angie. Colleen | ||
| Janice (Janice) |
Yes Pheeki, It is in her Child Guidance book, all about how that by teaching your kids to abide by "the rules" you will open the "very gates of heaven" for them. What ever happened to John 3:16? That was all I needed to hear in Vacation Bible School Class the day I walked down the aisle, amen. Angie, Sounds like you have a closed door, but you know we are all praying for you and like I told you several months back, divorce should always be a last resort and I know that you do love your husband or you wouldn't be putting up with his nonsense, but the Bible does warn us not to be "unequally yoked" and since your husband doesn't seem to be willing to abide by God's plan of things, then I would think that you are not obliged to keep your end of the bargain concerning being "submissive" seeing as how he is not treating you in the same way that Christ treated the church. The Bible also says that we are supposed to ìtrain up a child in the way they should goî and with his word as the instruction manual, even with warnings included that say donít take from or add to the book, then it is also your place to be the ìresponsibleî parent here and teach your children ìRIGHTî from the Holy Bible and not ìChild Guidance by EGWî. Jesus laid down his life for us, and we should be willing to do the same, some things are just not meant to be compromised. It is even stated in the Old Testament that Joshua made a stand and said "as for me and MY HOUSE, we will serve the Lord. Our Lord is Jesus and we are saved by his grace, he is our law fulfilled and writes his laws on our hearts that should make us want to serve him ABOVE ALL OTHERS, even a spouse. My pastor told me and Mike before we married that as long as our priorities were kept straight that our marriage would follow suit and the TOP priority is always "minding" God and God said, concerning Jesus, in Matthew 17:5--While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; "HEAR YE HIM". (This was God telling the disciples to follow after the teachings of Christ, and no where did Jesus make mention that we had to obey a bunch of rules, but did say that HE would write his laws on our hearts.) Jesus even answered an inquiry about the law and said that the most important law was to love God with EVERYTHING we had in us and the second was to love one another and went on to say that "ON THESE TWO" everything is complete. If we have the love of Christ in our hearts, we will not be lying, cheating, stealing, coveting, etc. so, the commandments "will take care of themselves" as long as we are being sensitive to the leading of the Holy Spirit, but we can "fall from grace" when we willfully sin, but "falling" isn't being cast out while having our salvation taken away from us either like so many would waste their time arguing over. All the arguing in the world does not change the fact that IF you are TRULY a "born-again child of God, you will never be snatched out of God's hand, you BELONG to Jesus, you have been bought with a price, and soon will be redeemed by Jesus himself. Speaking of his return, I almost thought it was going to happen this morning. I witnessed my very first "earthquake" at 5:00 while standing in my kitchen. I had just gone to the car and started it and put my bag inside and came back for my cup of coffee when I felt the floor begin to vibrate and then it was like this, ever have your washing machine get off balance in its spin cycle? Well, it began with a small vibration and then the entire house began to shake like a huge washing machine was spinning and bouncing across the floor, it lasted for thirty seconds or maybe a little longer, but, let me tell you right now, no way could you ever pay me to live in California if it was anything like I experienced this morning. I was just about to listen for the sound of the trumpet, amen. I even had goose bumps across the tops of my hands. Mike actually came down the hall to see if I had started washing a load of clothes and we were both so confused that it took a minute to comprehend that we had indeed just witnessed our first earthquake. They said on the news that the quake registered a 4.5 at its point of origin at Fort Payne, Alabama which is about sixty miles or so from where we live on the Alabama line. Found out too that the fault line is actually running along the state line, boy, that really helped my feelings about it alright! Back to Angie, I think maybe I should put some information in my thread for your husband that I started about PRIDE & Arrogance, God wants us to HUMBLE ourselves and until your husband's heart gets "broken", God won't be able to put the pieces back together like HE wants, and we all need to learn that is has NOTHING to do with what we do that gets us to heaven but it has EVERYTHING to do with what Jesus did on Calvary, all we are commanded to do is accept the gift in "simple" childlike faith, just remember what I posted the other day about who the true Jew actually is. Romans 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God. Ask him to read those verses and then ask him who he is really trying to please, is it his pride that makes him choose his church or is it God and THE church? We are told to study, we are told to test/try the spirit of any person expounding on the word, and we are told to be ambassadors of Christ and go out into ALL the world and gather his children in, just remember that your house is "sanctified" when you are living for the Lord and seeking to do HIS will. I will end this long post by saying that I do agree with Colleen that if a person wants to be a vegetarian, it is their own choice, so, let your husband do his thing but teach your children those verses about how God made all things clean and nothing to be refused, amen. I will end with this note about diets in Colossians 2:16-- Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]. Janice | ||
| Terryk (Terryk) |
Angie I know how frustrationg it can be to talk to SDA. Sometimes I would think it would be easier to talk to a rock. Keep the faith keep studying for yourself and your son. Learn all you can and become the person Christ would have us to be. It is very hard for SDA to see light it is gaurded so well with fear. Fear if you leave the church you will be lost. Fear if you question the church you must not be saved etc,etc.People only leave who have gone off the deep end that is what I was told. I used to feel so sad for those who would not accept the truth or who left. I used to say how can they leave we are living in the last days. So we do have to have compasion for those who do not see what we have seen. Also here is another myth they tell you well pope Ellen says in the last days great lights will go out. How do you fight all this fear and myths? I still have not figured how to reach people. I just sit back and pray and hope that they will search for themselves. I ask people who say they knew the church was a cult and I say why did you not tell me they just say they prayed for me. I would not have accepted what they had to say at the time either. As for them searching on the internet thats a big no,no that is evil they are satan's people on those sites telling you lies. Well I just pray for them all. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Angie, I haven't heard you mentioning divorce, and that's good. I do want to comment on the idea of not being unequally yoked, however. It's true that Paul is absolutely clear about not being unequally yoked with unbelievers. (see 2 Corinthian 6:14-18) He is equally clear, however, that in the case of marriage, the believing spouse should not leave the unbelieving spouse as long as the unbeliever is willing to stay with the believer. (I infer from the passage in 1 Corinthians 7:12-16 that he primarily has reference to a marriage in which one spouse becomes a believer and the other doesn't. In any case, he's clear about not divorcing the unbeliever.) "For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife," he says, "and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband." If, however, the unbelieving spouse leaves, "let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace." I have a dear friend who married her husband about 20 years ago when they were both far from the Lord. She was born again a few years later, and since then, she has steadily grown in her relationship with Jesus. Her husband, however, had no church background. (My friend grew up SDA.) He was a serious alcoholic, and their marriage was difficult. A little over ten years ago, she seriously considered leaving, but as she prayed, she became convinced that she shouldn't. As the years have gone by and she and many others have prayed for her husband, he slowly began to change. (The operative word here is slowly!) She began to read to him short passages from Christian books every day, and she persisted in worshiping and practicing her faith and church attendance, etc. Within the last two years, he accepted Jesus, and he is different! Their marriage is also different. The drinking has stopped (actually it had been better for quite some time), and he goes to church every week with her. He is noticably changed; kinder, softer, more understanding. We never know in advance what God's plan is for us. He doesn't ask us to live in physically abusive or dangerous situations. But sometimes he does ask us to love a difficult person. Please don't hear me telling you what you should do, Angie; in fact, you haven't asked! But I just want to say that God will make clear to you his desire for you. He will also give you His strength to do whatever he asks you to do. I will continue to pray that God will show you how to love your husband for him, whatever that might mean, even if it means being strong, taking a biblical stand, but respecting his right not to do so with you. Respect for him, however, is Biblical. It's interesting that Paul's advice to husbands is to love their wives as Christ loved the church, but wives are to respect their husbands. (Ephesians 5:33) Please don't hear me as being glib or lightly advising you to do something difficult. I just want to say that believing spouses are not to decide to leave their unbelieving spouses just because they're unequally yoked. Ask God to make clear to you His will! Praise God for his strength! Colleen | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
Colleen, Just for the sake of debate do you believe that an unbelieving spouse is the same as what is talked about in Titus 3:10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. Believe me I do not want a big argument over this but I would like to understand if these 2 are the same for anyone who cares to respond. For me unbelieving and the person spoken of here are of 2 different positions. And I must take literal what Paul is saying about having nothing to do with them. I did not say divorce but I beleive that having nothing to do with them in this and marriage could mean something more than is talked about in Eph. 5:22 and Col.3:18 I pray we can come together in the Lord and if be to disagree in love. I have seen it before from all of you so I know that it can happen. Praise God that our strentgh comes form Him and not from what we do or say, Carol | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Carol, you bring up a very good question. I really don't feel that I can make a once-for-all statement about what constitutes divisive vs. unbelieving. I know what the Bible says, but I also know that life isn't always clearly black-and-white. In the Ephesians 5 passage, where Paul says if the unbeliever wishes to leave, let him leave, Paul also says to let him go because God has called us to live in peace. If an unbelieving spouse is insisting on enforcing unbiblical practices on one's children and even on onesself, God does not expect us to give in to them as opposed to being obedient to Him. I don't believe our resistance is supposed to be hostile, either, even if it requires establishing distance in some degree. Again, Carol, I can't say a person is wrong if they have established distance between themselves and an unbelieving spouse if the spouse is being divisive and destructive. I can only say, God is the God of our pain and uncertainty and suffering, and He is the only one who can direct us when we face those situations. Some unbelieving people are sincerely trying to follow God and/or live a "good life"; some are really psychologically sick people who appear pious and godly in public but are deceitful and two-faced and even evil in their life's practices. Such people wreak havoc on others. I really do understand your question; I've struggled with it many times as I've contemplated different situations. I've even been asked similar questions before and on occasion have been grossly misinterpreted, so I am hoping and trusting that you and others who read this will hear my heart. I do believe marriage to be sacred, especially in the case of born-again children of God, because our bodies belong to the Lord. (see 1 Corinthians 6) I also recognize that there are situations besides adultery which clearly violate the marriage vows and threaten or destroy the other party and any children who might also be inolved. I do not want to be misquoted as saying I advocate divorce in non-adulterous situations. Neiher do I want to be misquoted as saying a person must stay and suffer ongoing abuse just because it's not adulterous. Yes, in some situations I do believe that distance is necessary. What I am saying is that if a person finds him or herself in such a marriage, it's vital that they pray and seek God's direction. Ultimately we answer only to God, and only God can provide the answers for these situations. I hope this makes sense! Colleen | ||
| Steve (Steve) |
Hi Carol, The scripture Colleen quoted from I Corinthians 7 is specifically regarding marriage. It has to do with your spouse. The passage in Titus 3 is specifically dealing with those who want to argue about the Law (SDA), Geneaology (LDS), and other controversies (people of various stripes.) In effect, Titus is saying that we should warn (speak the truth to these individuals) a couple of times, but don't waste our time when it can be seen that we're not going to get anywhere. Let the Lord work it out with that person after that. Titus 3:9-11: 9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. 10 Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, 11 knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned. The passage in I Corinthians 7, states: 10 But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband 11 (but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife. 12 But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her 13 And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy. 15 Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us to peace. The believing spouse "sanctifies" the unbelieving spouse. The unbeliever is "set apart" for the Lord by the believing spouse. This does not mean that the unbelieving one is saved. It does mean that the Lord has set apart the unbeliever for intervention by all believers for prayer, witnessing and loving, that he/she may eventually enter the Kingdom of God. Also, note that the children are holy because of the believing parent. It doesn't mean that they are saved. (That's a mistake SDAs have made in the past that Holiness=Salvation.) Not in God's way. Holiness can mean moral purity as in II Cor. 7:1. Perhaps the icing on the cake for this passage is the last verse. If the unbelieving one wants to leave, let him/her. But we are called to peace. Don't know if this helps or not. Blessed are the Peacemakers ~Jesus Steve | ||
| Steve (Steve) |
PS I, like Colleen, neither advocate divorce nor staying in an abusive relationship (particularly if the children are being abused or are seeing abuse in the home.) It is difficult. Steve | ||
| Terryk (Terryk) |
Colleen I appricate all your help that you give everyone on this forum. I believe you take great pains in trying to find the best answers. Thanks for the hard work that you do and the love of Christ that you show in trying to guide people in the right direction you have been very supportive of everyone who comes on. Thanks for all your help and addressing issues some of us will not touch. Besides the case of some abuse what happened to forgive 7 times 70. I have gone through some things for years and God one day just changed it and I praise God I did not give up. I can not say I did not say God why me and have many tears and frustration days but now I have the best marriage I could ask for. | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
Thank you all and I also want to say that you Colleen have a wonderful way of giving counsel. While I too do not believe there is a clear cut answer here I would also say please do not ever judge a person on what they do(such as filing for divorce when all other avenues have come up void). Having said that I know from your posts that you would never do that. The abuse that you Terryk talk of can raise another issue of: does it have to be physical or somthing that can readily be seen such as a complete collaspe of a person due to mental anguish? Divorce is not in my vocabulary but I have never walked the path of someone who is up against a brick wall. It's kinda like my church which preaches peace at all costs. If we are to never protect against evil then what should we do when and if we would be walking the streets of Bagdad and see an atrocity like I heard: bodies of young boys in the trash can decapitated. Is it peace to then just pray and look away and trust that God will intervene or should we love our brother enough to help. I understand when you all say it is a difficult question to answer and I like some of you have said believe it must be dealt with between the person and God. Thanks for listening and may God hear our prayer, Carol | ||
| Terryk (Terryk) |
Yes you are right it is a God and the person issue. I will have to say mental abuse can be worse in some ways then something that you can see. So I would have to say both would be a reason to concider. | ||
| Angie (Angie) |
Well I have been working all week and it's been awhile since I've worked so I have been wore out and not even looking at the posts this week.But thanks everyone for the advice!Colleen,I never came out and said the 'D' word,but I must admit,it has crossed my mind.I've been doing alot of soul searching this week and decided that if I want my marriage to work,then I'm gonna have to stand on the Word and quit being so negative about Jerry and my situation.You know satin can't read our minds like God can,and all the negative talk is just inviting satin to make things even wrorse than they are.So for now on,I'm going to trust God to keep my family together and to show Jerry the truth!As for abuse,I have been in both kinds of abuse,physical and mental,to be honest,the mental was worse for me,it stayed with me alot longer than the getting knocked around.And Colleen,you always give the best advice and you always know just how to word it!!Well I'll go now,my house needs major attention!!! Angie |
