| Author | Message | ||
| Tree077 |
Can anyone give me information on why SDA interpret a "day for a year," in the book of Daniel and elswhere? In the "prophetic" timetable from Gods word I don't see this as a consistant principle. Jonah for example prophecied that Ninevah would be destroyed in 40 days if they did not repent. I find it hard to believe that God meant "40 years,"??? | ||
| Sherry2 |
Ezekiel 4:6 uses a day for a year example though this is not the proof text given by SDA's. I take it your are not an SDA? 2 Peter 3:8 would be the proof text you are looking for. the one day = 1,000 years is actually the equation. | ||
| Chyna |
Dear Theresa, Adventist use the Daniel/Revelations bible to substantiate Investigative Judgement which doesn't exist in the Bible at all. To me that is one of the most frustrating point of all of their erroneous doctrine of Investigative Judgement. Get to the bottom line so you won't get confused. Investigative Judgement was a cover up for a previous error. 1. Miller predicted Christ's second coming 1843 Jesus didn't come 2. Miller said he was wrong and that it was 1844 Jesus didn't come 3. Ellen G. White said that the door has shut of Salvation that no one else can become saved after 1844 They changed their minds. 4. Ellen G. White said that God deceived them and that actually 1844 is when Christ moved into the second sanctuary. --- It really kills me that none of IJ is from biblical exegesis. And if you've read anything about how it's affected Adventists it means living in fear that your sin will outweigh the good things you've done and then you'll go to hell, even if you are a Christian. Desmond Ford an SDA preacher wrote a 999 page dissertaion explaining IJ is not in the Bible. I already feel tired for you Theresa, you won't make a difference unless there is a change in heart that God makes in the SDA Pastors, otherwise you're doing yourself danger by exposing yourself to false doctrines. I don't want to discourage you from your search as it is a valid thing. but academically and spiritually they are two different things. already you've probably experienced their blindness on manners of reality. Like that fact that Ellen G. White predicted a National Sunday Law, forbidding worship on Saturday. That worshipping on Saturday is the Mark of the Beast! These are things EGW said, which sound totally crazy to outsiders of SDAism, yet it is what they believe. Chyna | ||
| Chyna |
Sorry I meant that Worshipping on Sunday is the Mark of the Beast and the true test of your Salvation if you keep on worshipping on Saturday. here is my website about my experience with SDAism www.geocities.com/donotloseyourfaith/ | ||
| Sherry2 |
You did a great job on your website, Chyna. Thank you for your story, and thank you for being strong. God's blessings to you. | ||
| Chyna |
Thanks Sherry. | ||
| Andrew_adams |
Here are some more problems with the day for year idea; The Bible mentions the word DAYS 868 times, here is one. Jonah 3:4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown. Where do you apply the DAY FOR A YEAR? AA | ||
| Dennisrainwater |
Hi Theresa, Here are some thoughts from notes which I kept as I was studying my way out of this cult. I was a fourth-generation SDA, along with my wife. I had serious questions for about TEN YEARS, before I dared to actually study what the Bible had to say for itself! I would second all the advise of caution you have gotten from the others on this site -- the pain and confusion that I carry as a result of having been raised in this system will remain with me, to some degree, for the rest of my earthly life. Anyway, I hope these thoughts are helpful: ************************************ 2300 Days This "Investigative Judgement" is possibly the most important and unique doctrine which Ellen White has established. It depends finally upon her interpretation of Daniel's prophecy of the 2300 days, and is closely related to the "Great Disappointment" of 1844. I am not a scholar of prophecy, but I have reached some conclusions about this matter which I would urge you to consider. I can imagine that the people of the movement which created the frenzied expectations of 1844 had invested so much of themselves, and had committed so much of their credibility, to the study resulting in their interpretation of this prophecy, that they could not simply walk away from it. They had made such direct declarations about it that it had to mean something! However, with but some very elementary exegesis of the text of this prophecy in Daniel, we find that the words used for "days" (see Daniel 8:13,14) pre-suppose use only in the context of a literal day. Two words are actually used: ereb, eh'-reb; from 6150; dusk:ó + day, even (-ing, tide), night. boqer, bo'-ker; from 1239; prop. dawn (as the break of day); generally morning:ó (+) day, early, morning, morrow. James Strong, New Strong's dictionary of Hebrew and Greek words It is not this word: yowm, yome; from an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether lit. (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or fig. (a space of time defined by an associated term), . . . year . . . James Strong, New Strong's dictionary of Hebrew and Greek words This is the word used in other instances where days may be exchanged for years in a prophetic sense. (see Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:5) It is easy to comprehend the misunderstanding of this and other issues that relate to language misinterpretation issues. Mrs. White and other leaders of this period did not have access to resources which allowed them to perform exegesis on these texts. As far as I know, they only had a couple of versions of the Bibleóin Englishóand could only take the words as they were translated at face value. Additionally, consider this from the King James Version Bible Commentary: The vision then turned to hear a questionóHow long should this sanctuary desolation continue with the interruption of the daily sacrifice? The answer was for 2300 days, or nearly six and one half years. Theories that transform these days into years depart radically from both literal hermeneutics and sound biblical interpretation. Then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. This has no reference to a supposed heavenly temple, but clearly refers to the actual Jewish Temple cleansing that took place in 165 B.C. or 164 B.C. by the Maccabees. This occurred on the twenty-fifth day of Chislev, or the Jewish December. One day's supply of oil miraculously kept the golden lampstand burning for eight days. That cleansing has been celebrated ever after by the Jews as the Feast of Dedication (Jn 10:22), also called Hanukkah today. So it seems that this prophecy applied only to real days and this prophecy was fulfilled at just the right time. Finally, as to the import of this matter, observe this statement of truth by noted Adventist leader LeRoy E. Froom in his book Movement of Destiny, p. 542: "Indeed, if there is no actual Sanctuary in heaven, and no ministering Great High Priest serving therein; and if there is no Judgment Hour message to herald from God to mankind at this time, then we have no justifiable place in the religious world, no distinctive denominational mission and message, no excuse for functioning as a separate church entity today." *************************** I have not done an exhaustive word-study about the use of "day-for-a-year" interpretations, but as far as I have looked, it seems that the two-word combination of Hebrew words: "Morning" and "Evening" are only used in a literal sense. If this is true, then it completely unravels the SDA theory in this case that the 2300 days has the "day-for-a-year" prophetic significance. I hope this is helpful for you. If you have any direct questions about the above, feel free to e-mail me at DenRainwater@wwdb.org. I don't get to check FAF as often as I used to (or would like to!). God bless you -- and KEEP YOU SAFE! Den<>< | ||
| Jtree |
Chyna, Ni hao? Chyna, I linked your web page in my newly Yahoo club, I must tell you, that your web page really, really influenced me to do so. It's remarkable that your experience is much the same as mine, so I didn't want to repeat what you stated. SO..I in honor of that, I placed your link as the first link on FAO. (PARADY to Adventist Online, where if you state anything that is TRUTH, they remove your postings, and also remove you from those FORUMS). The Lord is doing a tremendous work through you. Please stop by FAO Joshua of the Rock! | ||
| Brad_2 (Brad_2) |
Steve, What is your view on Dan.9:27 I still believe it was referring to Jesus ending the sacrifical requirements. i know SDA's see it this way to but don't you think that they may be right in just one thing. Everone else in the body of Christ sees this to be the antichrist making a covenant with Israel. I see the last part of the scripture to refer to on the wing of abominations as referring to the antichrist. | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
read it from 26...and the people of the prince who is to come--that's the devil, yeah, I know, I'm not Steve.  | ||
| Brad_2 (Brad_2) |
The part in Daniel 9 verse 26 represents either the people of Jesus Christ the Prince of Peace or the people of the Prince of the Roman Empire in the days of the early church shortly after the death and resurrection of Jesus with the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. If the Prince of the people in Verse 26 is referring to the little horn or Roman Empire Verse 27 takes us right back to what the Messiah Jesus Christ did in the first half of the verse than the last half of Verse 27 speaks of the one who comes on the wing of abominations. If the Prince of the people in Verse 26 is referring to the people of Israel who did have their Prince of Peace Jesus Christ crucified it would support scriptures like: Matthew 27 50. And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. 51. Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52. and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53. and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many. John 2 18. Then the Jews demanded of him, ìWhat miraculous sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?î 19. Jesus answered them, ìDestroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.î 20. The Jews replied, ìIt has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?î 21. But the temple he had spoken of was his body. 22. After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken. Either way Daniel 9:27 in the first half looks like something that Jesus Christ fulfilled within the exact time set by Daniels 70 week prophecy. 70 weeks is 490 days, and a day represents a year. The first half of the last week fits in perfectly for the time Jesus was confirming the new covenant then put a stop to animal sacrifices and grain offering. Why would an antichrist stop animal sacrifice when that would take away from what Jesus did at the cross and make a new covenant as if the one Jesus Christ made was not good enough? But this is what we have been feed in the body of Christ since 1830 and it has swept the global and has gain in popularity to the point that when Jesus Christ rules the nations with a rod of iron for 1000 years in the Kingdom Age through the ones that overcome in Rev.2: 26,27 most people might think that the over-comers are the people of the antichrist. Revelation 2 26. And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations-- 27. "He shall rule them with a rod of iron; They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter's vessels | ||
| Steve (Steve) |
Hi Brad, Sorry I've been absent for a few days, real busy. I'll be back on later tonight or tomorrow to respond. I'm working on some homework with my son today, so it'll be a while. "Talk" to you later, Steve | ||
| Brad_2 (Brad_2) |
Here is my latest and easier to understand I hope. Thanks to Sabra who asked me to redo it. Daniel 9 24îSeventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy. Okay right here is the time set for Israel to finish the ceremonial requirements and to make an end to sins be claiming righteousness in Christ. Seventy weeks are determined not sixty-nine and a half or six two weeks but all seventy weeks. One week represents seven years. The seventy weeks belong to the Messiah and Israel with the last week or seven years as a nation to begin a New Covenant. You cannot take the last week out and spiritualize it into the future and apply it to the little horn or the Beast. During this time the messiah was to be anointed as the Prince of Peace. 25îKnow therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times. Okay Iím no bible scholar but I believe it is plain enough to see without the help of Scofieldís version that is. The Messiah, who was the Prince is not to be confused with any other Prince. I believe this Prince in verse 25 is the same Prince as in verse 26 because of the seventy weeks determined anointing the Messiah in verse 24. The destroying of the Temple happened some seventy years after the seventy weeks. 26îAnd after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined. The people who did the destroying were the people of the Messiah. They brought on the destruction by rejecting their Prince and Messiah. Had they not they would have made Jesus the king but they fear this because of the Roman Empire and King Herod. The hopes of the earthly Jerusalem and the earthly sanctuary came to an end at the cross. The veil in the real heaven not built be man was torn in two. Then Jesus ascending into the new Jerusalem about forty days after he rose from the dead. This all but end or destroyed the earthly sanctuary and the city no longer plays a role for us the new Jerusalem does. John 2 18.So the Jews answered and said to Him, ìWhat sign do You show to us, since You do these things?î 19.Jesus answered and said to them, ìDestroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.î 20.Then the Jews said, ìIt has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?î 21.But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 22.Therefore, when He had risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this to them; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had said. Daniel 9 27.Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. The word THEN in verse 27 is just continuing from the previous verse. It does not jump out of the seventy weeks determine and have a spiritualized meaning for some antichrist after the beasts of Rev.13. I know many do not see that they have already come but they have been proven in history by the churches back before Scofield came along. The Seventh Day Adventist still see it this way but itís to bad that they have a false view of the mark of the beast being associated with those who do not keep the Sabbath Day. Daniel 9 27b.And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.î This is where the Beast or little horn came into the seen right after the seventy weeks were determined. There is no mentioning of the one to come on the wing of abominations during the seventy weeks, but this was seen in the early church. When I see the antichrist now that the time of the little horn has pasted I see the man of sin or antichrist the same way as the early church did. In individuals and not per say in just one person, in fact I cannot find one scripture that calls the little horn or the Beast the antichrist although they were antichrist. Here are all the scripture as to who the antichrist is: . 1 John 2 17. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever. Deceptions of the Last Hour 18. Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. 1 John 2 21.I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22.Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23.Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also. 1 John 4 2.By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3.and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. 4.You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 2 John 1 6.This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it. Beware of Antichrist Deceivers 7. For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. . 8.Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward. I think that we can agree that those who are antichrist are many and not just one. Another thing that I find is that some think the Great Tribulation is the wrath of God but it is not. It was the wrath a superpower nation against the saints of God. God wrath will back fire on all who are antichrist and the beast during the Kingdom Age. Someone who is antichrist can be a person who was once among us in the fellowship. | ||
| Steve (Steve) |
Hi Brad, I read through your post twice. I have to admit that I have avoided the book of Daniel in my personal studies for over 4 years now. I've only begun to experience a renewed interest in the book of Revelation. This may not be what you were looking for, but here goes. I know that Daniel prophesied about the coming of Jesus. It was very specific. Christians and non-Christian historians who are honest admit that Daniels prophecy points directly to the coming of Christ. When it comes to trying to understand the remainder of the prophecy, specifically that in Daniel 9, I do know this: It shows that Messiah was to be cut off (Dan. 9:26, Jesus was crucified.) That is GREAT news to me and any Jew or Gentile who recognizes their need for the blood of Jesus to cleanse us from our sinful nature. The remainder of verse 26 is SPECIFICALLY for the Jews. Being a Gentile, and having cast off my so-called "Christian-Jew" identity that I put on as an SDA, it has nothing to do with me directly. Regarding Daniel 9:27, it is a continuation of the prophecy in v. 26. There are two primary understandings of this prophecy. 1) It was fulfilled during or just after the time of Christ's ministry on earth. 2) It refers to a period of time at the end of earths history. If #1 is true: It really has no bearing on me, especially as a Christian. If #2 is true: It has no bearing on me. Prophecy is given, not so much to figure out what is going to happen, but for those experiencing the fulfillment of the prophecy to say, "Ahhhh, this is what Daniel meant!" Please realize these are just my opinions. I guess that I tired so much of Daniel & Revelation that I don't even want to understand them unless they tell me something about Jesus that is meant directly for me. And Jesus has promised that the Holy Spirit will bring to my mind everything about Jesus that I need to know. So I guess I'm waiting for the Lord to teach me. I read Desmond Ford's commentary on this passage to try to further understand how I might try to answer you. It was no help at all. I guess, as honest of a man as he seems to be, his writing is still part of the SDA mindset. Perhaps I could focus if there was only one or two points that we could discuss (my mind can be small at times.) The whole passage is beyond me. In this case, even these two verses are beyond me! God Bless you, Steve | ||
| Brad_2 (Brad_2) |
Thanks Steve, Before I was an Adventist an believed in the sevens of Tribulation with the world ruling antichrist to still come I was shaken in that belief when I read about the second beast coming out of the earth. My first thought was if the first beast we are still waiting has not come yet then it's going to be a much longer time then we have thought because of the second beast to come after. That when I started to consider other ideas about the whole thing. I'm totally will you if I cannot find in this endtime stuff something that relates to my relationship with Christ is becomes a second issue with me. Here are my thoughts on Rev.13 This is just my perspective on this topic and by no means Iím I stating this as fact. To many people have error on this. Revelation 13 The Beast from the Sea The Beast from the Sea and the Beast from the Land 1. Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. 2.Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. This was the old Roman Empire before its fall around 395 AD. 3.And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. This was when Cesar Constantine of the Roman Empire declared Roman a Christian state and stopped the persecution of Christians around 200 AD. 4.So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?" 5.And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. This would be the Holy Roman Empire from 800 to 1806 AD. This Beast is during the Great Tribulation. This Beast does not have the number 666 mentioned, or the mark of the beast, or not being able to buy or sell mentioned during the Great Tribulation in Chapter 13. But in other texts it is said that whose who have come out of the Great Tribulation did not have the mark of the Beast. The Great Tribulation was to last during the times that the scriptures mention 42 months, or times and time and half a time meaning three and a half years. Symbolically and year for every day of three and a half years = 1260 yearsî can be considered or three and a half years could represent the life that Jesus had in His three and a half years of ministry and persecution. I believe it represents the Church Age and the ministry and persecution that we shared in likeness to Jesus Christ up to the Kingdom Age of over comers being caught up and ruling over the nations with a rod of iron. 6.Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7.It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. This could be seen in times like the Spanish Inquisition When an ecclesiastical tribunal of the Roman Catholic Church established in Spain in 1542, and finally suppressed in 1834, under which large numbers of people deemed heretics were tortured and executed. 8.All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. All who dwell on the earth I believe is speaking in general terms worship one man that is said to represent Jesus Christ on the earth when the truth is all believers represent Christ. 9.If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10.He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. This period ends with Jesus Christ coming or manifesting Himself in great power and glory with a sharp two edged sword coming out of His mouth through those that over come. Maybe the times of God performing signs and wonders with healings and miracles come to an end for those on the earth who have the mark of the Beast and become the time of vengeance. But this is the time of the Kingdom Age and entering into the third heaven for believers. The Beast from the Earth 11. Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. Out of the earth and into the Spiritual, or into America? Two horns could be Catholic and protestant being like a lamb that would be out of the earth into the spiritual. Or this could be separation of Church and state, but the state is not like a lamb unless the title one nation under God would qualify it to be out of the sea and up on to a new earth. I believe that it can refer to both the deceived people of God and the superpower nation that claims to be under God. But I also believe that these two will be greatly used to turn things around if they come to understand what is really going on as the white stone mentioned in Daniel 2 Daniel 2 44.And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. 45.Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold--the great God has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure." Anyway this Beast carries on after the times of Great Tribulation of the Church Age and right on into the Kingdom Age when Christ makes war with the nations until the nations surrender to Jesus Christ and honor Him with the title of King of kings and Lord of lords. 12.And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. If this is the USA, the USA fought for there freedom from the influence the Holy Roman Catholic Church had on the world at the time back in the 1776, and formed the separation of church and state. Later on after World War Two they became the superpower of the world and because of this separation of church and state they can do nothing to stop the freedom of worship even of the one man claiming to be the Vicar of Christ ìonly one to represent Jesus Christ on earthî. 13.He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. 14.And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. This could be seen as the great fire power of the almighty US. Military and or a false Pentecost experience where the focus is on what man can do for God instead of Jesus Christ manifesting Himself through those who have truly over come. I have noticed even in the most on fire charismatic fellowships over the last thirty years that the emphasize has been to enter into Godís presence with the idea that God is here and we are over there. Or when we pray we are to focus up to heaven where God is. This is falling short of what the gospel message it all about and that is, God indwelling us. All we need to do is re-focus a little bit in order to get it right. Those that stay in the old rut will appear to be in outer darkness asking to be allowed into the light. When we come together we do not have to press into Godís presence because Godís presence is everywhere and in every believer. We do not have to spiritually look up but rather inward and see Jesus Christ in every believer. Where two or three are gathered in His name, whether in a park outside or in a building those things do not matter. We do not need to ask for the Holy Spirit to come when He already has. All we need the do is recognize the Holy Spirit in each other and impart the Holy Spirit to those who want Him. 15.He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. To be killed can be taken in a spiritual way, by rejecting the Roman Catholicís Vicar of Christ and not worshipping him results in a rejection from the Roman Catholic Church that you have life in Christ. 16.He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17.and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Cain received a mark as the aftermath of killing his brother Abel. I find the mark of the Beast on the forehead is symbolically connected to not have the mind of Christ or the Spirit because the Holy Spirit is the seal of God, but the mark on the hand is symbolically connected to not loving other as Jesus loved us and here is why. 18.Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666. 666 is the number of man. Some of the people in Babylon used names that would add up this number. The Ceasars of the Roman Empire did likewise. Even name of the offical title of the Pope and Ellen Gould White the Prophetess of the Seventh Day Adventist church adds up to 666 in Roman numerals which I believe means nothing when it comes to them being feared as the Beast for today. I believe that this number will have to spiritual meaning for the times that we all have lived in. It has been said that Godís number is seven and three sevens can be seen in the Revelation of Jesus Christ through the seven Spirits of God in the over-comers of the seven Churches with their seven rewards. If we fail to grow through our spiritual journey with Christ abiding in us we can end up short with only 666 as did the Church of Laodicea. But the over-comers of Laodicea end up with all three sevens or 777. This is just my present thoughts on this and in no way set in it but if you read the chapter on the Over-comers in my book you may understand better on where Iím coming from. Again this is just my perspective on this topic and by no means Iím I stating this as fact. | ||
| Steve (Steve) |
Hi Brad, WOW! Again, much to reply to. However, here are two thoughts that crossed my mind as I read your post. 1. The day for a year principle This is only strictly held to by various cultic organizations, and certain extreme fundamentalists. The day-for-a-year is only one of the ways Gods time is different from ours. Don't forget the year-for-a-day principle. Who ever said that just because God initiated one string of prophecies with the year->day He then had to stick with that and couldn't use a different reckoning for other parts of the prophecy? I used to love the year-for-a-day teaching. Now, I can't stand it (again, Adventism seriously squelched any love for end-time prophecy I may have had.) I don't believe that God can be locked into a box in terms of His use of times (not that He's going to deceive, like the god of Adventism.) What He gave Daniel was very specific. But there are many points that are still not understood by even the best scholars. I guess I'll take my chances with those who don't know. I'll let God do the knowing for me on these things. 2. Separation of church and state. There is nothing in our constitution regarding separation of church and state. Yes, I agree that our founding fathers were very strong about the government not interfering with the religious lives of the people. The phrase in the constitution that we often hear is, (this is a paraphrase) Congress shall make no law establishing religion. What this means is the government is forbidden to establish any religious teaching or organization as the "legal" church. In England, they have the Anglican church. In Russia, the Russian Orthodox. In other parts of the world, establishments have been made by governments regarding the religious practices of the people, including Atheist states. The founders of this country wanted to avoid that. Groups like the ACLU, Americans United for Separation of Church and State (a group I was introduced to and joined as an Adventist), and others are going to the most ridiculous extremes in trying to prevent any "appearance" of government doing ANYTHING with a religious organization. This is NOT what our founding fathers wanted. They appreciated a religiously diverse nation. Many of them were Deists, some were Christians, some were Unitarian in belief. Anytime I see the Unites States related to various prophecies in the Bible, I immediately turn off to it. (I think this is almost an automatic response after hearing such babble in the church regarding this.) I appreciate that you state that this is your perspective. I'm not familiar with your book. Is it available? Take care Brad. If Jesus isn't in the details, they're just distails. Steve | ||
| Brad_2 (Brad_2) |
Steve, I liked what you had to say about church and state. So every little is known about the history of it. If you or anyone else sent me your E-mail address I'll sent you a copy of my book. The books main focus is Christ indwelling us and the role we have with that. My views are not totally new but most have never considered the things in it. I would post my E-mail address but the one time I did I was removed from the forum and had to reapply. As far as the second beast in Rev.13 I believe is more or less on the spiritual side and not a literal country because the second beast come up and out of the earth. If it would have said not up and just out of I would have leaned towards a literal view I see that the USA is so far the close nation to having the best system that ever has been on the earth. A problems to overcome though nothing that the Lord can't handle. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Brad, we've never removed anyone's posting privileges for posting email addresses! Neither do I remember our ever removing you. Whatever may have happened, we're glad you're here now. BTW, it is safer not to post your email addresses on the forum--unless you welcome often-unsolicited email which you may or may not appreciate! Colleen | ||
| Brad_2 (Brad_2) |
Colleen, It happened the first time I posted and I offered a free copy of my book. I just thought at the time that I was being protected from what you said. Anyway I'm almost done editing the book again and thanks to all you have helped me out without knowing. Here is my E-mail address for a free copy to any one who will read it. baker55@telusplanet.net Give me another day and the book should be none |
