| Author | Message | ||
| Aletha25 (Aletha25) |
Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ! My name is Maxine & I stopped attending my local SDA church initially because I felt I just couldn't be 'perfect enough' in time for the latter rain. Since this site and other similar sites like this, God has spoken words of comfort to me through His Word & through His Word ALONE. I must admit, I still find it difficult to let go of the sabbath and fully understand that JEsus Christ is The Lord Of the Sabbath. Anyway, I won't drone on! What I want to discover is who is the beast? Because once God reveals to us who the Beast is, He will also reveal to us what the mark of the beast is. (because I haven't a clue!) I know that you may have had this conversation a thousand times but I would truly be grateful for just a quick suggestion/comment if at all possible! Thank you! Yours in Christ, Maxine | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Maxine, welcome! We're glad you're here! The beast I understand to be satan. What the literal mark of the beast will be, we don't know yet. Whatever it is, the mark of the beast involves one's allegiance being with Satan instead of with Jesus. Ultimately the final test is whether or not a person is a true Christ-follower or not. If one is, he has the seal of God, and he will not have the "mark of the beast". Those who receive the mark of the beast will not be sealed with the seal of God. Days and observances, etc., are not part of the seal of God. The Holy Spirit is that seal! Days and observances are likewise not a part of the final question and the final test. Whether or not one risks all to embrace Jesus is the true test. Again, welcome, Maxine! Colleen | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
Welcome Maxine, I support what Colleen says. I would also like to point out that you have been indoctrinated to understand the words in the Bible differently than most Christians. The difference is that the definitions have been crafted to support the teachings of Ellen White. For example, the phrase ėLord, even of the Sabbathî is interpreted by SDAs to mean that Jesus is insisting on Sabbath observance on His authority. However, look at the stories surrounding that phrase in the Gospel. In Matthew chapter 12, Mark Chapter 2, and Luke chapter 6, we see the disciples clearly breaking the Sabbath of the fourth commandment by gathering food. This in clear violation of the Law of Moses and the Commandment on tables of stone, which say ėDo no work.î In fact this act was reason enough for death in Numbers 15:32-36. Does Jesus say that they were not breaking the Sabbath? No. That is because they certainly were. What he implies is that they are not to be condemned because He is greater than the temple. We know he is. But his disciples are not. Yet they were to be held blameless on His authority. So, because his disciples are in his service, they are apart from the Law of the Sabbath on the Authority of Jesus who IS the Sabbath in reality. The day is merely a shadow. This is one of many ėre-definitionsî you need to examine. Jerry (sneaking in from someone elseís computer) | ||
| Thomas1 (Thomas1) |
Hi Maxine, One of the hardest transitions I had to make, in leaving Adventism was to take my eyes off of symbols and place them completely, solely, totally, on Jesus and His cross. In growing up as a second generation SDA, I was taught that we HAD the TRUTH and that no one else had it. The problem was that the "truth" depended on a whole lot of symbolism and the SDA interpretation of it. IF you except their definitions, you will believe their way. Problem is that their definitions depend on their prophet and their prophet's credibility is suspect...at best. Jesus said "I am the truth". He also told us to "believe in" Him, to trust Him, to cast our worry and cares on Him. John tells us in his first epistle that those who "believe in the name of Jesus Christ" may KNOW that they have eternal life. Period. There are no additional requirements or hidden catches listed. For what it's worth, sister...I have learned to place my eyes ONLY on the cross. To rely ONLY on the cross. To trust ONLY in the cross. When the "beast" (who or whateve it is) gets around to placing "marks" on folks, I will continue to rely ONLY on the cross, place my eyes ONLY on the cross, and trust ONLY in the cross of Jesus. If I'm wrong then it will be by the dishonesty of God and His word that I will be wrong. But I'm trusting that He doesn't make mistakes. Place your eyes on the cross and NEVER NEVER NEVER let ANYTHING thake them off! In His Grip! <>< Thomas | ||
| Steve (Steve) |
Welcome Maxine! Can't add to anything that's been said before. Like Thomas says, the cross alone. Like Paul said, "I would know nothing among you but Christ, and Him crucified." The beast? Most of what's out there is speculation, although Colleen is right on about who it really is. Be careful. Welcome, Steve | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Hi Maxine, Anyone who says who the Beast is is speculating. We wont know who Satan uses for this personality until he shows up. This is from my website: www.geocities.com/wordsower03/Rest.html Who is the Anti christ? What is the Seal of God? Is it the Antichrist/Beast the Pope or the Catholic church as the Seventh day Adventists teach? A few verses are brought to my attention: "I am come in My Father's name, and ye receive Me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive" (John 5:43). The Pope does not come in another name. Christians have been around for a long time and those that don't want to receive the gospel are looking for something ELSE. I think the anti-christ will be that something else they are looking for. In Dan. 9:27 we are told that the Antichrist "shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease". 8:11, "Yea, he magnified himself even against the Prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away" currently the Muslims have occupation to the land where the temple mount is and it is the 3rd holiest site of Islaam. One thought is, Why would the Catholic church want the temple? The dominion of the Antichrist shall be world-wide. The coming Man of Sin will be unchallenged and universal. "And all the world wondered after the Beast" (Rev. 13:3). "And power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations" (13:7). 13:17 The duration of Antichrist's career, after he comes out in his true character, will be limited to forty-two months. In Dan. 7:25 we learn that this one who shall "think to change times and laws", will have these "given into his hand until a time, and times, and the dividing of time" The Seventh day Adventist Church believes their prophet Ellen White who taught that the one who thinks to change the times and the laws will be, as she understands, changing the Sabbath. What they don't consider is that the Jews worship on Saturday too, and christians love the Jews. If the Antichrist is to deceive even the very elect, he can't go around persecuting the Jews. I think he will appear to love the Jews and have there best interest at heart, he will permit them to sacrifice again in their temple, he will seem like a very GOOD guy to many. In Daniel 7: 25: "He will speak against the Most High and His saints and try to change (the set times) and the laws." This antichrist will change the way laws are handled and our system of goverments as we know them to create a one world government. I think we can see from scripture that he will not be the Pope. ***************************************************************** Is the seal of God the Sabbath? The Sabbath was indeed the sign/seal for Israel, Ex. 31:13Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. Unless you are Israel, it is not your sign, the sign/seal of the New Covenant is the Holy Spirit. "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption." Ephesians 4:30 | ||
| Aletha25 (Aletha25) |
Wow! thank you so much guys! I received a lot to think about and pray over. I've always questioned whether the beast was papal rome, because the Bible said that the WHOLE WORLD would wondered after the beast... and as far as I could tell the WHOLE WORLD don't care too much about the catholic church (i.e muslims, other Christian denominations, other world religions, and just about everyone!) Half the world didn't care back when the catholic church was at it's strongest right up til the present day. When I study the Bible, I seem to get the impression that the scenario with the beast is still future tense. Also the beast will cause a strong enough delusion to convince everyone on earth to follow it. Jesus Christ did warn us to stay vigilant against such delusions. "For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that if it were possible, THEY SHALL DECEIVE THE VERY ELECT." Matthew 24:24 You see, this scares me a little bit because I've realised that I have to completely ignore my five senses and depend wholly on the Holy Spirit, allowing Him to become the replacement to all my senses! Anyway, that's my two cents! Before I wrap up here, I was wondering whether anyone knows if there are any former adventist groups in the UK at all? I feel a little isolated right now although I do attend a non-denominational centre where the people there are wonderful! Take care everyone! May God give us wisdom and may the Holy Spirit gives us peace! Maxine | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
I don't know of any former Adventist groups in the UK. I'm glad to hear that you're in a good fellowship, though. That's the most important thing! It's hard for us who leave Adventism to transition to regular Christian churches, but it's essential. We would keep ourselves from really healing if we limited ourselves to fellowship with formers. It's necessary to debrief with formers, though--no one else understands the dynamics like one who's experienced it or lived with it (as have Jerry and Joel, for example)! Also, no one else completely understands the subtle definitions and phrases we know. Please feel free to talk to us here, and grow in your local fellowship. Praise Gof for leading you! Colleen | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Maxine, Is your family SDA? You know, I have my own speculation that the AC may be a Muslim, it is just speculation but a lot of things seem to fit to me: "Remember this, and show yourselves men; Recall to mind, O you transgressors. Remember the former things of old, For I am God, and there is none like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done....." Isaiah 46:8-10 I think there is a wealth of knowlege in that verse. We know that the Garden of Eden was in the area of Babylon. Babylon is mentioned more than any other city besides Israel in the bible. This is the place where civilization started and where the devil started his kingdom. The fallen angels are bound at the river Euphrates according to Rev. 9:13&14. This has been an area of rebellion from Adam and Eve to the tower of Babel, to the rule of Nebuchadnezzar to the present day. Study of Islaam will reveal that satan has inspired this religion and events that are expected to take place in Islaam are events that will happen, but for different purposes. Isaac and Ishmael were two half brothers with two very different futures. The false prophet Mohammad is a direct decendant of Ishmael It is amazing that they claim to believe in the Torah and Daniel and knowing that the devil never had an original idea, they are taught the bible in reverse. The Koran eerily has many of the same end time prophesies as our Bible, except I believe their role is the antichrist role described in the Bible. They believe: (remember, this is Muslim belief, NOT TRUTH) *They are waiting for a messiah, he is called the Mahdi, he will cause the whole world to convert to Islaam or be killed. *He will appear just before the end of the world in a time of great tribulation. *He will seize Turkey through force. *After uniting all of Islaam he will take over the entire world in the name of Islaam. *There will be great prosperity including gold and silver for his followers. *After this is accomplished the Mahdi will rule for five, seven or nine years, depending on which tradition is followed, different Muslims believe differently. *The end of the world will come followed by the judgement of Allah. Let's compare--Mahdi will unite the Muslim world------------antichrist will unite 10 kingdoms(Rev. 17:12) Gold and silver ------------antichrist will honor his god with gold and silver Dan.11:38 will rule 5,7 or 9 years ------------antichrist will rule for 7 years Dan. 9:27 Mahdi will come from the east -------------antichrist will be great toward the east Dan. 8:9 Perry Stone interviewed a Muslim man asking him how he would describe the end of the world. Note: These are the beliefs of a Muslim, these are not facts and this is not our Jesus. He said: Quote"In the last days there will be earthquakes, famines and strange signs from Allah. There will come several prophets claiming to be prophets in the name of Allah, but they will be false, we are warned not to follow them. They will work in line with the antichrist. Then our Mahdi will rise to power. He will come according to tradition, riding on a white horse. Jesus will appear and follow the Mahdi. We believe the Mahdi will come to Jerusalem and liberate it from the Jews and Christians. He will convert people to Islaam when Jesus tells everyone that he lied, that He is not the Son of God, because God cannot have a Son. Jesus will perform miracles to prove He is Jesus. He will point people to the Mahdi, and will kill the Jews and tell the Christians to forsake the idea of the Trinity and forsake the Cross. Islaamic justice will rule the earth. Those who rebel against the Mahdi will be punished, and some say with a sword." end quote Well there we have the antichrist riding on the white horse with a bow and no arrow, a crown of a conqueror--Rev. 6:2 The two witnesses of Rev. 11 The false prophet performing miracles Rev. 13:13 Muslims denying the Son 1 John 2:22 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. "Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. 10There are also seven kings. (Rome, Egypt, Syria, Babylon, Medes-Persians, Greece) Five have fallen,(Egypt, Syria, Babylon, Medes-Persian Greece) one is,(Rome) and the other has not yet come. 11 The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition. 12 "The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast.in Revelation 17:12. We read that the ten horns are 10 kings who have not yet received a kingdom, so we are not talking about 10 Kings and/or 10 countries. They have not yet received a kingdom so are we looking at something else here? But, who for one hour (brief period of time?) receives authority as kings (notice "as kings") along with the beast? 13 These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast. 14 These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful." 15Then he said to me, "The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues. 16 And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. 18And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth." OK, A few questions: Why would anyone except the Muslims want anything to do with the temple mount? Who has the most oil? Oil=power ************* By the way, thank you for signing my guestbook!  | ||
| Steve (Steve) |
Hi Maxine, I think you've got it right! (At least as much as there is obvious in scripture.) Delusion is the problem. Staying vigilant is the key. And you even suggest the source of our vigilance, the Holy Spirit. The Antichrist will only deceive the elect IF IT WERE POSSIBLE. Jesus said that "no one can snatch them out of My hand." If you are in Jesus, pray for your daily strength from God and He will protect you from deadly delusions. Good luck in finding another former SDA in the UK. Ask around in the area of Newbold College. Perhaps someone there has a website, or perhaps may be known by some on the campus. Just a suggestion. Steve | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
The way I understand it the prophecy of 666 was fullfilled by Nero. |
