| Author | Message | ||
| Angie (Angie) |
I must say that ,even though we were sda's for a short time,it done terrible damage to my oldest daughter[15],I found her journal from when we went 'on a cleans'and it was talking about wanting to spend more time with her dad before the police state and all that stuff started,mind you,he is a police officer!We all fell for it,so I didn't try to hide anything from her,so you can imagine the terrible thoughts she had about him!!Now,you can't even get her in a church of any denom.I completely agree with Sabra.I have came across many christians that say that the Bible Sabbath is saturday,but keep everyday Holy.Of course I used to pray for those people to see the truth,now I pray that they didn't listen to me!!! | ||
| Freeatlast (Freeatlast) |
Colleen, Scripture seems plain to me that it is ALL about Jesus and it is our personal response to Him that God is ultimately concerned about. No Jesus, No God. With Jesus, With God. The true Gospel truly is simple enough to fit on a bumper sticker. | ||
| Freeatlast (Freeatlast) |
Angie, that's so sad but it happens every day. People discover heresy in their church and give up on Jesus who brought them back to church in the first place. I thank God every day that He kept me from that. How thankful I am that God has graciously seen to it that my hostility towards heresy has not translated into hostility towards God! | ||
| Bob_2 (Bob_2) |
To all, I would still like an answer to my question in my post above, which is more scarier, the way the Adventist taught us about what would happen at the time of the Sunday Law, or the way we have, most of us, found the on the outside of SDAism the doctrine of eternal, non-consuming hell? Apparently with the later it is good to be scared? Colleen, you sure dodged the issue of whether you would stand up, to the death, to give the SDAs the right to worship on Saturday. This is not a small question. Consider Nazi Germany when many, I believe probably most denominations stood with Hitler and did not stand for the sanctity of life. Bob_2 | ||
| Dennis (Dennis) |
Interestingly, when the frightening SDA SUNDAY LAW/DEATH DECREE supposedly takes effect, the believers that have accepted Jesus as their True Sabbath Rest will certainly NOT pose a threat to Sabbatarians. After all, we do not keep any holy days. The Sabbath (Lawgiver) now keeps us. The Christian calendar has no holy days. We do NOT believe that Sunday is a holy day like the Jewish Sabbath was. We are absolutely no threat to Seventh-day Adventists, so how can they in good conscience continue to officially teach scary tales that we will eventually kill them? This truly boggles my mind. Although Sunday is NOT a holy day, it is indeed a very special day to Christians for at least the following five reasons: (1) Sunday was the very first day of the New Covenant--Resurrection Day. (2) The Christian Church was born on Sunday (Pentecost). (3)The eighth day Sabbath (Sunday) observance in the Levitical system was a shadow pointing to Sunday--the Resurrection Day. (4) Sunday has always been referred to as the LORD'S DAY ever since the resurrection of our Lord, Jesus Christ (Church History validates this fact, and sacred history further verifies this designation in Rev. 1:10). (5) Sunday is a weekly Easter for all Christians. Resting in Him, Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Loneviking (Loneviking) |
I think Dennis gave the best answer in that we aren't a threat to Sabbatarians. As for which is worse--Sunday law/persecution or eternal hell, I'll pick Sunday law any day. The reason why is that we can have assurance that we won't burn in hell. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to wind up there unless they want to. Christ has freely given us everything we need to avoid that place. Sunday law/persecution idea though is a perversion of scripture. It isn't taught anywhere in the Word and is part of a packet of error that includes lack of assurance of salvation; sanctification means being able to fully keep the law; sealed by the Sabbath; a time when there is no mediator for mankind----all of which are directly in opposition to the Word. Give me clear instruction from the Word over commandments of men taught for doctrine any day... Bill | ||
| Charlene_2 (Charlene_2) |
Dear Bill, How well spoken. But no more clear than prominent SDA's themselves. In an article "How Long Until the Sunday Law?", in Adventist Review, Author James Coffin states the following: "The scenario that Ellen White describes is totally compataible with the rudimentary prophetic outline provided in Revel 13. HOWEVER, -WITHOUT- divine revelation is would be IMPOSSIBLE, no matter how carefully one studied Scripture and history, to arrive at the detailed sequence of events she provides." These are not my words, but a writer of the R&H. That statement is as clear as crystal that the whole of escatology (for SDA's) is based on EGW rather than scripture alone. charlene | ||
| Gene (Gene) |
Sometimes my thought processes seem muddled - try to stay with me.... WHAT IF the current Muslim effort to cleanse the world of Satan's followers (us) gains strength and continues? They're everywhere, and in some parts of the world are persecuting and killing Christians TODAY! WHAT IF they become invasive enough to threaten our entire society? Remember, their attacks aren't standard military strikes - they cut down innocents with sneaky attacks from the shadows. WHAT IF, to defend ourselves against a slippery and nearly invisible foe, a day of worship becomes the positive ID for determining one's allegiance? Worship on Friday - obviously an enemy. Worship on Sunday - obviously not. Worship on Saturday - who cares. We're not a Jewish country. It's my understanding that one of the Crusades most used by pope-haters to bash the Catholic Church was in truth an effort to seek out Muslims who were masquerading as Jews in order to destroy their enemy of the day - Christians. One was considered to be a Christian (safe) or a Muslim (not safe). Not sure which? Let me assist you with these thumbscrews. One of the hardest things for me to accomplish after leaving the cult 35 years ago was to see current events without the EGW distortion. We also can't reject an idea simply because she mentioned it. Heck, she plagarized EVERYbody! One's religious belief was used hundreds of years ago to define one's social allegiance. It could happen again. Our society as we know it may very well be a bubble about to burst. Correct me if I'm wrong - it's not like I'm a professor or something. | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
I posed the Islam scenario to my SDA husband and he said, "THat isn't how it will happen. We know it is the Catholic church that is the anti-christ." I pointed out to him that what I read was that they claim Jesus will come back and say he lied and that the Muslims are correct. Here is my line of thinking on this...Didn't Jesus say that if they say I am in the desert, don't believe it! Kind of prophetic. Here is something I have been wondering. I can't remember if this is EGW or the Bible. Have you ever heard the term 'latter rain'. I cannot find this in the Bible. Does it pertain to some of EGW's theology? Is it an SDA term? | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
The latter rain is described in Joel 2, particularly verse 23 I don't know what EGW thinks about it, but it has to do with Israel Regarding the RCC--Numerous and grievous have been her departures from the teaching of Holy Scripture, yet since the time of the Council of Trent (1563 A.D.) every Roman Catholic has had to confess "I believe in God the Father...and in the Lord Jesus Christ....and in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, which proceedeth from the Father and the Son". Hardly sounds like the desciption of the antichrist:"I am come in My Father's name, and ye receive Me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive" (John 5:43). The Pope does not come in another name. In Dan. 9:27 we are told that the Antichrist "shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease". 8:11, "Yea, he magnified himself even against the Prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away" The Pope doesn't have possesion of the temple mount-Islaam does. 1 John 2:22Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son. That's not the Pope. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. The Muslims, had engraved on the ceiling of the temple, "Allah has no son" opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the Temple of God, showing himself that he is God" (2 Thess. 2:4). This is Islaam's goal, the Pope could care less about the temple in Jerusalem since they don't even like the Jews and they started the replacement theology doctrine. For centuries this has not been the teaching of the church either and they don't have a problem changing with the obvious signs, why do Adventists have to be so "right"? They are the blind leading the blind and they wear me out. Poor pitiful Pope with his corrupt church, who would listen to him anyways? I could see it now on the news, 'Pope Trying to Gain Control of the World to Avoid Bankruptcy' PUHLEEEEZE! | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Interesting points, Sabra! Pheeki, the early and latter rains, or in the NIV, the autumn and spring rains, are mentioned in Joel 2:23 in a long-range prophecy concerning God's restoration of Israel and culminating in the Day of the Lord. They're mentioned in the context of God restoring the spring and autumn rains that caused the harvests to be plentiful. EGW took that text and created a theology (or perhaps the "theologians" around her did it and she wrote about it)that identifies the early, or autumn rains as Pentecost, and the latter rain as an outpouring of the Holy Spirit that will happen right before the end of time which will yield a huge revival and usher in great numbers of conversions (to Sabbatarianism, by the way) prior to the second coming of Jesus. Thus Adventists believe that the full measure of the Holy Spirit has not been given to humanity yet, and they pray for the Holy Spirit to be poured out on them. These prayers are for the latter rain, the as-yet-unknown-power which will bring hundreds or thousands to conversion at one time. In the meantime, they just wait for the latter rain. The Bible does not teach such a thing. The New Testament is clear that the Holy Spirit is given to everyone who accepts Jesus, and as we increasingly surrender our lives to him, his power is more and more evident in us. God does prepare people for and raise up revivals and reformations at various times. But the particular twist the Adventists give this subject causes them to believe that the Holy Spirit is not fully here, and they can only watch and pray for it to happen. Colleen | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
Now it all makes sense to me. I had asked why they kept praying for the Holy Spirit to come into them in church when I thought we already had it! Interesting. That is one piece of theology I missed out on I guess. | ||
| Janice (Janice) |
Gene, That was a very interesting post, and it is so strange that I had just gotten through reading a newsletter that a cousin sent to me concerning our current war situation in Iraq and other areas of the MidEast. This is the main reason that I have been so passionate in my readings of last day events. I have studied last day prophecty since back in the seventies when Hal Lindsay wrote his book The Late Great Planet Earth. I have read everything that he has written and also became interested in Jack Van Impe's studies. All of this was taking place at the same time that my sister was being indoctrinated into the SDA religion. (By the way, in case you don't know) the SDAs are very much against any other writers ideas about last day events, my sister even told me that her church said for them NOT to be reading ANY of the books that Hal Lindsay or Jack Van Impe had written. Even this past year, my sister visited a web site that she said was Baptist in belief, and she printed out several pages of information that laid claim to the fact that Jack Van Impe had plagarized much of his work and mailed them to me. (This was after my accusing EGW of doing the same.) My sister even laughed at me once when I wore a "Perhaps Today" trumphet pin that was a gift of JVI ministries that I had supported. We had gone to a local SDA church and were eating dinner afterward when she spied my pen. Her SDA husband actually had to tell her to shut up because she was making such a spectacle of herself in the restaurant. She said "you don't seriously believe that God is going to sound his trumpet at any moment, do you" and went into a long SDA speech all about what EGW had prophecied. I was told that I was ignorant and giving in to the devil when I actually bought in to such nonsense. We seemed to fight everytime we spoke to eachother back in those days. I found that my sister was just about as spiritually ignorant as I was, but I thank God everyday that I wasn't living up there in the mountains with the rest of the SDAs and was able to enter into a serious Bible study with mutual Christian friends where I worked. We went to several seminars about end-time prophecies and thank God that EGW's books didn't surface anywhere other than my mailbox via JoAnne, courtesy of the SDA library. I was so totally amazed when I came across such obscure passages that EGW used that I plainly saw as prophecy that dealt with Israel. Her little calendar of events didn't exactly pan out either. I thought it was amazing that an author actually wrote a book to disclose all the lies that EGW taught and then got mad at this forum because we used excerpts from his papers that proved EGW to be quiet the FRAUD that she had been accused of all the years. My sister truly holds her little EGW books as sacred as the Bible itself and even stated in a hateful letter to me once that this dear woman wrote nothing but good in her books and those books have been instrumental in "making her (my sister's) pathway straight." How's that for idol worship? Before I get too carried away again with my post, I want to give you the site if you want to read the newsletter that I mentioned. It is: http://www.investorsinsight.com/ This web site is a sort of political/financial forum and the message that I read this morning was "What Will Happen To The US If We Don't Go To War" Believe me, a lot of people don't really understand that it is ALL about politics because remember what God said in his word, that Satan is in "high places" and although we often blame Satan for the misery in our lives, we fight more with his principalities (Satan's army) that we do with the devil himself. Satan must be in a high position to be able to do everything that prophecy foretells during the tribulation years. I also believe that this is the main reason that so many formers have trouble in studying the last day prophecies as told in the Revelations and in the book of Daniel. They have EGW so firmly fixed in their minds that all other studies appear to be very confusing and this is very scary to a lot of people who will eventually just give up on their studies, and even some will say that it just "isn't important" since they already know where they are going. I challenge us all to reach out to a lost and dying world to win as many as we can to the Lord. It is our job as ambassadors of Christ to go out and compel them to "come in". I guess this should have been on another thread but since I don't know how to really create one, I just sort of jump in with both feet and I have thrown it out to you and now will end my post by saying what my preacher always says prior to his sermons. "And ALL God's children said AMEN" Till next time. Janice | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Janice, Don't you suppose the devil would want them to look for signs so they could "get serious" about the end when the signs appear. It gives you the impression you have more time instead of being ready at any moment for the imminent return of the Lord. Listening for the trumpet and looking up for my redemption draweth nigh! Sabra | ||
| Gene (Gene) |
Oooooo - Sabra! You might be onto something! Kind of a false sense of security. Thing is, those folks that intend to bail out at the last minute are likely to end up as did Noah's neighbors. Janice, thanks for the link above. Interesting reading. And I completely understand the attitude of radical Adventists as you described. Wasn't it Paul that wrote that we should be temperant in all things, including religion? | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
My mother recently confronted me on my attening the Lutheran church. She asked if it was true that I actually joined the Lutheran church. When I told her that I had she, in an accussing tone of voice, more or a statement than a question asked me if I was now attending classes on learning how to pursacute Sabbath-keepers in the last days. I assurred her that I was not learning how to be ruthless to Sabbath-keepers and that the only people in the entire world that have any idea of the soon Sunday laws is SDA's and people who used to be SDA, that Christians who attend church on Sunday would be appalled to even hear that they are to someday be part of such evil. Well, that conversation was dropped. However, she recently got out her Samuelle Bacchoicchi books and they are on the coffee table now. I assume they have been placed there so hopefully I will pick them up and read them. So, this afternoon while I was visiting my mom she asked me if I've ever read S.B.'s books. When I told her I have read his books she made the comment that she just dosen't see how anyone can read his books and then choose to not abide by the truth. Oh well, this too will pass (hopefully). Is it even possible for a SDA to tell a loved one who was raised SDA and no longer is SDA, "Oh, dear, I am so happy you have found you a nice group of Christians to worship and fellowship with?" I don't think SDA's even have a concept of that sort of reaction and it is so sad and it is so stifeling. | ||
| Angie (Angie) |
Susan2,yes it really is sad.My husband thinks the same about me.'How can I believe that I can smoke cig. and still go to heaven' or even consider going to church on sunday,after I have read the 'truth'!!!But wasn't it S.B. that wrote some stuff that contridicted EW or the sda church?I myself have never read any of his books. Angie | ||
| Janice (Janice) |
Susan and Angie, You could do like I did, take those books and pray before you open them and ask the Holy Spirit to show you the lies and then you can go to www.blueletterbible.org and key in a word or a phrase from the Bible and take what God shows you and get a red ink pen and on the same page where you find the discrepancies, write the Bible verse in red ink with a star or underline it, whatever, and then give the book back. I have God's word on it that IF your loved ones are truly saved and indwelt by the Holy Spirit, you can tell them that you earnestly prayed as you studied God's word and tested the spirit of this man's word as commanded in 1John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. You can also remind them of this verse: 2Ti 3:16-All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17-That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. I don't want to get off into a long post like I usually do but just thought I would let you know how I challenged my SDA sister to search for the truth. I will warn you though that until they are broken by God by whatever means he seems fit, you will only be planting the seeds. One man plants, another waters, but it is ALWAYS God that gives the increase. I will try to comfort you with these words: 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. This was a key thought in the sermon my preacher spoke on this morning and he used I Samuel 16 to demonstrate how man looks at the outward appearance, but praise God, God looks into our hearts. He knows when his children are hurting, and God is a just God and if we could see the outcome of our trials, then we would be living in reality instead of faith, amen? Janice | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Susan and Angie, You will come to realize that they are sad and pathetic and you have the truth and they believe a lie, and sadly, I'm afraid, we have given them light and the truth and they refuse to hear and choose to believe a lie. The choice is theirs, we all have free will. It's sad and you wish you could do something, but you can't so you just smile.  I don't mean that in a sarcastic way, you smile because you are happy and your steps are ordered by the Lord and you have peace. Angie, You really should come down and go to church with me, I know you would love it. | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
About SB's books...I only have one thing to say about them...he believes that the wine in the Bible was not wine as we know it but grape juice. That totally goes against scripture. If he goes against scripture there...where else? |
