| Author | Message | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
This website shows the connection. Quite fascinating to find out that not only the SDAs stemmed from Miller. Also that Robert Brinsmead would be part of the change for WWCG. http://quango.net/brinsmead/shorthis.htm Oh how I remember those years in the World Wide Church of God before Armstrong's death. Now THAT was strict legalism. Thank God they have changed a great deal! | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
I highly recommend Joe Tkach's book, Transformed by Truth. Tkach is the head of the official Worldwide Church of God that left the old covenant requirements and became a new covenant, evangelical church. It tells the story of how the church changed. Not mentioned in the book is the fact that Dale Ratzlaff's book Sabbath in Crisis played a significant role in educating the pastors in the new covenant before the official change. Their individual struggles have greatly paralleled many of ours! Colleen | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Can someone tell me the connection between the SDA's and the Mormons? Did they branch off from the Millers too? | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Mormons did not specifically derive from the Millerites, but they were contemporaries of them and of the early Adventists. Joseph Smith was murdered on October 22, 1844 (sound familiar to anyone?). There is some very interesting trivia that suggests more than a casual connection between the early Adventists and the Mormons. For one thing, it is a matter of public record that EGW's mother died in Nauvoo (or however you spell the town where Joseph Smith lived with his early followers and was murdered), and her brother lived there, too. Joseph Smith records a vision in the Book of Mormon which describes the faithful climbing a narrow path up a steep mountain to heaven. Iron rods appear, and they grab those for support. EGW's first vision (she was 17) describes a very similar scene, but in hers the faithful grab red cords to escape falling off the path. Also, EGW's description of Jesus in the sanctuary in heaven including the descriptions of his clothing and of the furniture is strkingly like Joseph Smith's description, with the exception that he pictured HIMSELF as the priest in heaven instead of Jesus. ï Many of the early Mormons kept the Sabbath. ï The Whites believed the Jesus was a created son of God, not God Himself, for the first four decades or so of the Adventist movement. (This belief, known as Aryanism, is also a belief of Mormons as well as other cultic groups.) ï It is known that EGW knew or at least had been in the company of Joseph Smith. ï There is some unpublished research regarding the connection between the Whites and the Mormons which has been going on for some time. I cannot quote it, but it suggests some significant personal and even familial connections between the Whites and Joseph Smith. Because it's not published and I can't quote sources, I won't even mention the specifics I've heard. I'll just say that there is some compelling evidence to suggest that there were long-term, significant connections between them. In short, I can't say exactly how related the two are, but they grew out of the same charismatic millieu of the early 1840's centered in the New England states, and the principal parties knew each other. Colleen | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Very interesting, thank you Colleen. Funny, Mohammed had a similar dream or vision too, devil isn't too original is he? | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
Sabra, I just read your post on Guide to the Major Clut's Dreambook about Jesus "keeping' the sabbath. I thank God for going before me again to show me something that I wasn't even looking for. Very interesting what is said in Jeremiah 17:21. And then in John 5:8 Jesus tells the man to pick up your mat and walk. And then in John 5:18 it clearly says they determined to kill him because he not only BROKE THE SABBATH, Now like Sabra says and she thought that was of the pharisees idea that he broke the Sabbath but it looks like they knew what they were actually talking about"this time" I've been told in a manner of speaking we need a thus saith the Lord. Do we not have that here? Are we looking at anything except the Bible? Are we taking it out of context? Are we allowing someone else to interpret it for us. These are the ways I discern if I am reading the scripture in a truthful way or as is stated in 2 Timothy 2:15 and in context verse 14 and 16 also. Again I say thank you God for using your child Sabra as a tool to give me a reference of something that was told of in OT and then broken in NT. May we rightly divide the Word, Carol | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Carol, that was quite a while ago when I posted that. I have to give Doug here on this forum all of the credit for that one. He started a thread on it a while back and definately pointed out some things to me! I asked him then if I could use some of his points. I have no idea how I found that cult site, wild isn't it? It has sparked a lot of debates on my e-mail! Blessings, Sabra | ||
| Seekr777 (Seekr777) |
Colleen said: "I highly recommend Joe Tkach's book, Transformed by Truth. Tkach is the head of the official Worldwide Church of God that left the old covenant requirements and became a new covenant, evangelical church. It tells the story of how the church changed." Very interesting that last night the leader of the Intercessory prayer session I attended was a member of the WWCG. There were 8 of us there for a prayer time of about 2 hours. It was awesome hearing the heart felt prayers of those attending. It's always a blessing to feel God's presence and see Him working in the lives of those who seek His face. Richard | ||
| Alison (Alison) |
Colleen, I found your comments about the connection between the Mormons and the SDA's very interesting and ironic. Simply because I use to be part of the Mormon church for 7 years before I became a SDA. As of December of last year, I had finally left the SDA church after being a member for 20 years. Now, I just consider myself a Christian. I do go to a Bible-believing church that teaches the unfailing grace of God. | ||
| Steve (Steve) |
Your story is interesting Alison. There is actually an official SDA organization involved in leading Mormons out of LDS and into SDA. Their point is not to bring non-Christians to Christ, it is to show Mormons the similarities and differences between the two groups. Based on these differences, a Mormon is supposed to see how the SDA church follows scripture literally. Hah! What a warped fallacy. Although the specifics of what is taught are very different, the actual lifestyles and works orientation are exactly the same. Praise God for your finally coming into His grace. Steve | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
As I understand it the sda´s appeal to the lds´s by mentioning their similiar dietary rules. Then trhe sda´s convince the lds´s not to eat the unclean meats and it just continues from there. The way I see it though is that the sda, the lds and the jw are all very similiar, if not in doctrine then in at least their control over their adhearants. There is a very interesting website you can go to at www.watchthetower.oro that is a ministry for people leaving the jw. Go to it and then go to ´history¨and you can read how the jw and the sda come from exactially the same background, the same roots in the Millerite movement. One branch became the sda and the other branch became the jw. Want to take one guess what these two branches didn´t agree on so that they had to become two different denominations? You got it! They couldn´t agree on the date that Jesus was suppoased to come back! Now isn´t that about the most cornball thing you ever heard of? Then both groups went on to distort the Bible and even writing their own versions of the Bible and suckering millions to not focus on grace and Jesus but rather on all their denominations must-dos and must-not´s.BTW, I am now for the first time just beginning to read the book by Waltewr Rey called The White Lie. It is very interesting. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Alison, are you new or am I forgetting? At any rate, welcome! Colleen | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Susan, That was an interesting site, I had seen it once before when looking up testimonies, they have some good ones. I didn't know that the JW came from the Miller's, or if I did, I forgot it. Do the SDA's know this?? Would they care? | ||
| Brad_2 (Brad_2) |
Hey everyone I'm back to work ful time, I mean 12 or more hours a day so I woun't be doing to mant postings until a later time. God Bless you all Brad | ||
| Steve (Steve) |
Hi All, The Jehovah's Witnesses came directly from Charles Taze Russell. Russell was raised a strict Congregationalist. He was taught in an eternal hell. He couldn't deal with it. Influenced some by SDAism and others, he eventually wrote the 7 volume Studies in Scritpures. He wrote that if one studied the Bible alone you would be in darkness in 5 years. However, if one studied the Bible with Studies in Scriptures, one would be in "the light" in 2 years. (Russells writings are still available from Dawn Bible Students, the group that still exists after the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society came into existence in 1931. Dawn are more honest about the source of their teachings than the Watchtower.) The JWs, LDS and SDAs all have teachings on proper diet. The JWs can drink a little alcohol, and don't have strict restritctions on meats. The Mormons are stricter with the section in Doctrine and Covenants that is known as The Word of Wisdom, which specifies proper dietary habits, including no alcohol, caffeine, tobacco, and some strong suggestions on the balance between meats and vegetables. SDAs top them all. And we're all (?) familiar with that. I doubt that the SDAs would care if anyone, even if it was JWs, split of from them (there have already been plenty of groups.) They would just accuse them with apostasy and write them off. JWs do use Daniels prophecies and the 2300 days very much like SDAs, but with different dates (ending in 1914), no sanctuary, and an invisible return of Jesus (the 2nd Presence) beginning on October 14th, 1914. Once the last few die off (those who were born by that date) they can then get about the business of revising their theology to explain why the earth is still here. ************************************* CONGRATULATIONS BRAD!!! ************************************* Steve | ||
| Steve (Steve) |
OOPS! Russell wasn't "taught in an eternal hell" he was taught OF an eternal hell. Oh, well. I guess some day the first statement will become true! Ah, Freud. | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Susan 2, Thank you for saying this in part: "Go to it and then go to ´history¨and you can read how the jw and the sda come from exactially the same background, the same roots in the Millerite movement. One branch became the sda and the other branch became the jw. Want to take one guess what these two branches didn´t agree on so that they had to become two different denominations? You got it! They couldn´t agree on the date that Jesus was suppoased to come back!" I've posted that truth (just not the website) at least 3 times but nobody seemed to respond. Hopefully it is noted this time huh? Peace and thanks! your sister in Christ Jesus. Denise Gilmore | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Now that I read on, people have responded! Yahoo! When I was studying with the JWs a few years back, because they came to my door and I was curious, my research on them resulted in finding this stuff out. When I told them this, they never came back. Hmmm, wonder why?  Denise Gilmore | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
Susan made reference to this web site www.watchtower.org and I went there and did not find "History" but I did find this.http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/1999/7/1/article_02.htm I would like for someone who has some time to kill to look at this and share with me and others what you see or don't see in this article. Thanks, Carol | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
Sabra, Could you check on the web site address because I don't think I am on the one you talk of. Thanks, Carol |
