| Author |
Message |
Seekr777 (Seekr777)
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 4:46 pm: |     |
I'm probably missing it sitting right in front of my face but I was wondering what "CARM" refers to in the above message.
I'm guessing it is a discussion site. Can someone tell me where and what it is?
Richard |
Another_Carol (Another_Carol)
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 6:51 pm: | |
It is Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry |
Steve (Steve)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 12:29 am: | |
Hi Pheeki,
WOW! They are not only not Christian, they appear to be true worshippers of Ellen G. White.
I attempted to click on various "buttons" but couldn't seem to get anywhere, so I simply perused the home page.
However, the claims that they make, while perhaps denied by the EGW Estate, are absolutely supported by the leadership and membership of the SDA organization.
Re: Bin Laden
That quote has made the rounds all over the SDA church, and of course by fringe groups such as this.
Re: Mad Cow Disease
Typical EGW filth. I'd be more afraid of what I'd catch from EGW that I would from eating a bad cow. At least a diseased cow would only be temporal, but stuff from EGW could be eternal in it's consequences.
Re: Dr. Mayo
What she said was not new. And what Dr. Mayo discovered was much more than just "electrical currents in the nervous system." He advanced the field of Neurology to a higher level than it had been before. He was successful in many areas of medicine. Anyone who knows anything about neurology (and I know only a little) knows that Dr. Mayo advanced the SCIENCE, he did not just make some crack statement about minute electrical charges in the brain. That was fairly common knowledge, even around EGW's time.
Re: Dr. Stanley
If the specific quote is "chilling," then why don't they provide the quote and really get us all hooked on her amazing prophecies? It's probably "chilling" because she said something that may have sounded like the phrase "midget germs." Oooooh! I can feel the goosebumps already!
OR!!!!
The website could be a joke.
I attempted to search for People Need the Lord Ministries, and couldn't come up with anything.
Even the one possible link, when I clicked on Bin Laden didn't take me anywhere. The page was not available.
______________________________
The CARM website can be found at the following address:
http://www.carm.org/
It's a well researched site. Not a discussion site that I know of. It's full of good documentation about cults, general Christian apologetics and some other items.
Steve |
Doug222 (Doug222)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 6:17 am: | |
On the CARM site, you can go to a discussion area under each "cult." Click on Seventh-Day Adventist, and there will be a link to th discussion board. I find it very difficult to use because the messages are organized in a "tree" format. On any long discusson, it is almost impossible to find the new posts. Has anyone found a good way to work around that?
Doug |
Another_Carol (Another_Carol)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 9:04 am: | |
Would some one please go to http://new.carmforums.org/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=121&topic_id=2451&mesg_id=2451&page=10
and tell me what you think.
I read this several weeks ago after I had asked Doug what other forum he was on.
Hopefully you would not have any prejudged ideas
of the author so as to look at it only as it presents. Then on that basis give me your idea of it.
After that then I would like to discuss it with you.
Carol |
Carol_2 (Carol_2)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 12:34 pm: | |
I'm with you Doug, that CARM site is difficult to read! I'd like to see a list of all topics, and be able to continuously read all of one topic like I can on this forum, but can't seem to figure it out.
One thing I can say, I think that CARM forum is a blessing. Anyone who is considering SDAism that might read that forum, I believe, would be turned off by the denomination.
I hope I'm not wearing rose colored glasses, but I try to open mindedly read the comments, and it seems to me the non SDA Christians are, FOR THE MOST PART, long suffering, gentle, open-minded, seem to know their Bible, etc., while the SDAs, FOR THE MOST PART, become so defensive or sarcastic if you don't agree with them, or if you challenge them.
While reading it I tried to imagine myself a Christian that knows nothing about SDAism, and it made me think how many, many red flags would be going up in my mind about the denomination.
So thankful I'm out of that!!!
Love and prayers to all, Carol #2 |
Susan_2 (Susan_2)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 2:19 pm: | |
I just read thar Review article. It was mumbo-jumbo, just jibberish. The authpor is not a very gpood article writer. I thought he would explain how come the church distanced itself from the New Zealand family whose child died. The subject he brought up just ended. He jumped around alot from this to that, not connecting the pieces to defend his views. The first part of the article though would deffinatelly put the sda denomination in the catagory of cult. Another Review article that was in last months issue, the issue that all sda's get was about how the sda church is so incredibly anti-union. This is because the sda leadership think if unions get into a company then the employees right to have the Sabbath off will be negated by the union. i am going to write the Review a letter today and send it off to them. Don't hold your breath though waiting to read my letter plubished in the Review as the Review has never yet plubished one of my letters. I am going to tell them that when I was a child my dad worked in the lumber mills. He was a bonified, card-carrying m,ember of the union. He was also sda but he had the good sense to do it his way regardless of what the sda church told him about the evilness of unions. He never had a problem with getting Saturdays odd. Then a new supervisor was hired for his shift. My dad was scheduled to work on Saturdays. My dad went to the new supervisor and topld the supervisor he was to get EVERY Saturday off because of religion. The supervisor was relentless and said since my dad didn't have it in a written ahgreement with the company then it was only an oral agreement between my dad and the previous supervisor and that he, the current supervisor would not agree to my dad having every Saturday off. My dad took it to the union representative and the union guy told the supervisor to let my dad have off every Saturday or the union would see the dude in court. My dad never had to work another Saturday, all thanks to the union. So, I thinlk I will write and tell the Review this story about my dad. My opinion about the current sda diatribe against unions is because so many employees at various sda health organizations are trying to unionize and the demonization dosen't want it but they are playing on the fears of their members by telling them the unions will take away their right to have Saturdays off. |
Seekr777 (Seekr777)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 2:44 pm: | |
Thanks to several of you for your feedback and information.
I checked out "www.lrltv.org" and the best I can say is someone does not share my sense of "reality". You were correct that all of the "buttons" seem to be "broke". 
TO: "Another Carol" I looked at the CARM reference you left and was VERY blessed as I read it. There are a number of analogies that can be made from the story and I probably shouldn't admit this but I had tears in my eyes when I finished.
I'm curious what "prejudged ideas" you feel we might bring to the message?
Richard |
Another_Carol (Another_Carol)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 7:16 pm: | |
Richard,
I felt the same as you. Thanks for responding to the article.
As far as the prejudge statement: I hoped that you would read the article before you knew the person posting position on truth.
I will leave it at that so as to give some others opportunity to read it before I make more statements on it.
Carol |
Steve (Steve)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 7:46 pm: | |
Carol,
I just read the message. However, having e-met the one who posted the message (not the author) I am very curious.
The story seemed pretty biblical, but I read it quickly. I've saved it and may read it more slowly some time soon.
Steve |
Another_Carol (Another_Carol)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 8:24 am: | |
Steve,
Thanks for responding.
I am right with you. I would like for some more people to read it and then I will get into more of what you are talking about in your 1st sentence.
I am sure this is not making sense to some of you, but I am a person who does not like to prejudice a persons own thinking and thus I would like for you to read it and then comment.
The teacher in me, Carol |
Pheeki (Pheeki)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 8:48 am: | |
I couldn't get any of the buttons to work either and I really wanted to see what he was claiming.
My mother has gotten this guy's newsletters for years...he has been trying to get EGW into Time magazine or some other big publication for years unsuccessfully.
He is also wanting to put her on billboards as America's #1 all time best selling author, who hasn't received proper credit.
But the absolute most hilarious thing he wants to do (and has been trying for years to accomplish) is to get her face on a US postage stamp. Can you imagine? They could do a series featuring Joseph Smith, Mary Baker Eddy, etc.
I am going to lunch but I want to post something from his newsletter that shows you how the SDA are into double speak. I will do that later. bye. |
Lydell (Lydell)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 8:53 am: | |
Well, it sounds right. As long as one doesn't overlook a rather important point. The price for the donut was paid whether the person wanted it or not. But the donut doesn't do the person a bit of good if they don't receive it and eat it. Even being placed in their hands means nothing...the hands can be opened and the donut dropped on the floor or left on the desk.
The same with salvation: the gift is offered fully completely paid for. But until you make the decision to reach out and take that gift it's still only a gift being offered.
I'm curious too about the two verses at the bottom. What the heck does that have to do with anything? |
Another_Carol (Another_Carol)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 10:12 am: | |
I suppose from the verses at bottom he is pretty much a male chauvinist ***. But of course I could be wrong as I have not acquired prefection "yet" thus allowing me to be as God and be able to know what is in his mind. Maybe that will come when I realize my error and come under the "Law". Oh but isn't there a verse that says something about that.2 Thessalonians 2
4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God
I can't get past 1 John 8 either:
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. It looks like I'm doomed since the word of God says I cannot claim to be without sin.
What's a person to do?
Well if I'm hungry for a donut and one is provided free of charge I think I will just take and eat. If someone has already paid for something for me wouldn't it be very ungracious of me to not accept.
I wonder what the real author meant by this very moving show of someone else sacrificeing in your place. Did you notice His name and college and email address were on the post. I've been to the site and cannot really get a handle on thier beliefs.
Thanks again to all of you who have responded to this article, Carol |
Sabra (Sabra)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 12:45 pm: | |
Quote"I can't get past 1 John 8 either:
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. It looks like I'm doomed since the word of God says I cannot claim to be without sin." end quote
Another Carol,
We can only be without sin in Christ. Our old sin nature is gone and we are reborn. We don't do it, He does.
And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses. Col. 2:13
It's not what your flesh is here, it is what your spirit is there--alive, seated in heavenly places with Christ Jesus.
We are not earthly people having a heavenly experience. We are heavenly people having an earthly experience, a short one at that.
I liked the doughnut illustration by the way. |
Carol_2 (Carol_2)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 12:55 pm: | |
You go Pheeki!!! I'm so proud of you on the CARM forum. (You too Joel!!) You are both so good about not getting dragged into the arguing, but just waiting for the right moment to say, in easy to understand terms, something very biblical and difficult to argue with! Carol #2 |
Another_Carol (Another_Carol)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 1:08 pm: | |
Amen, Another Carol
Sabra, I hope you realize that I was trying to make a point that 1 John 1:8 cannot be interpreted any other way than it presents and if SDA's say (and they do) that they can be sinless then what pray tell will they do with this verse?
Oh, I am sure they will do just what they do with other verses such as Duet 18: 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him..
What do I do with a prophet that has spoken presumptuously: love him but not follow him.
God gives us some real clear advice thru His word and He has guided me to those scriptures.
Another Carol |
Susan_2 (Susan_2)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 1:21 pm: | |
Are you all discussing Pastor Jan and his Sweet Venita? Oh, gag me with a linkette! |
Steve (Steve)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 10:14 pm: | |
I'm gagging.
"Greetings from me & Sweet Venita IN THE END OF THE WORLD."
Yeah, and when it stops, you can take the first elevator down, "pastor." |
Steve (Steve)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 10:17 pm: | |
Thanks Another_Carol,
By now I'm almost squirming. Anxiously awaiting your REVELATION.
Steve |
Another_Carol (Another_Carol)
| | Posted on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 6:24 am: | |
r |
Another_Carol (Another_Carol)
| | Posted on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 6:26 am: | |
Sorry about the above but I lost everything except this although it was up in the preview and when I went to post this is all that went. I must go to work now so you will have to wait Steve.
Later,Carol |
Another_Carol (Another_Carol)
| | Posted on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 1:46 pm: | |
Steve,
I am not sure what REVELATION you are speaking of unless it is about the DONUT post on CARM.
If that is the case then I would have to say I agree with you 100%. I did not e-meet the said poster until later and then could not figure out his reason for posting such. I noticed that he did not make any comments about it.
Maybe it is just a smoke screen to make unsuspecting persons believe they are "mainstream" and thus hook them.
Hope this takes care of your squirming. If it doesn't then let's talk more.
Carol |
Steve (Steve)
| | Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2003 - 11:21 pm: | |
Hi Carol,
Perhaps I misunderstood. I thought you were going to wait for others to respond before you revealed something about the poster.
Sorry if that's not what you were going to do.
The individual can be VERY deceptive.
Steve |
Another_Carol (Another_Carol)
| | Posted on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 2:35 pm: | |
That's OK I think the time had come. I had nothing to reveal other than what you already had surmised and my whole point of it was just like you say DECEPTION, the whole name of the SDA game.
That's all for now, Carol |
Janice (Janice)
| | Posted on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 3:04 pm: | |
Well, Guess I have been away too long because I don't understand what you are talking about with the CARM, I did read about the doughnut though and liked the analogy very much. Grace is that simple, so simple that some just can't accept it, they somehow think that they have to help God by earning salvation somehow. I have read and studied the Pauline Epistles during this past month and am amazed at how fresh the word is to me everytime I read it, it is like the Holy Spirit is constantly revealing something new to me which isn't really new at all, so, I guess refreshing my mind would be a better term.
I went to that LRLTV site about EGW and couldn't get any of the links to work which was fine with me since I got nauseous after reading their home page. I wanted to scream at them something like "maybe the greatest American author should have known the author of the universe a little bit better before she started claiming to have visions from him", right? Also, didn't you want to rush out and buy the latest version of her Great Controversy book with over 400 photographs edited into it? Good grief, if anyone ever looked at the writings of Nostradamus, they could see where she plagerized a lot of her visions from, he wrote almost word per word what she wrote about the twin towers incident and two hundred years before her if I am remembering right.
I believe that everyone needs to study their Bible more thoroughly before claiming visions and such, and even those who don't have visions should still study so that they wouldn't be deceived into believing these people that do claim to have visions such as all this nonsense like EGW did, like my sister who swears that her paths were made straight by EGW's writings. Funny how she claims that EGW's books did that for her and never gave credit at all to the Holy Bible or the Spirit that reveals truth in that blessed book, amen? I will never forget too how she began her letter by stating that Jesus was her best friend just before cutting me to sheds with her hateful words that suggested I need physiatric treatment to help me deal with my problem of persistantly degrading this precious prophetess of God.
Well, guess I need to get off that subject before this post turns into a sermon. I need to go to church service in a few minutes but wanted to check out the forum before I left again. We just took Mike's daughter to the Atlanta Airport, and she will be returning to Florida probably as I am writing this, I think her flight left at 5:20. She had come up to see her sister graduate Friday night. Hilary was Mike's youngest, so, they are all out of high school now and Hannah is in Florida going to college to become a doctor and is already working in a doctor's office as an assistant.
I want to post some more later tonight if I get the time. I found something else in the book of Genesis that I wanted to comment on, it was very interesting, and I can hardly wait to share.
Bye for now,
Janice |
Janice (Janice)
| | Posted on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 7:37 pm: | |
Steve, Thanks for the info about that lrltv link. The same thing happened when I checked it out, none of the links worked at all.
I thought it was a hoot when I read your words about the "chilling" prophecy because I was reading from the site to my husband and when I read that part of the message, I said "wow, if it was sooooo chilling, why didn't they give the exact quote or at least a small part of it?" See why I laughed? Almost my words exactly.
My puny little web site may not be much for right now, but at least my hyperlinks take you to the sites when you click on them, amen? I am wondering too if it is some kind of test to see how many will go to the link out of curiosity before deciding to work on it any further. Maybe they have a "hit" box attached to it to count visits or something, kind of like a survey, maybe?
I don't know why it would take me ten minutes to get a site pulled up on my computer only to find a whole lot of nothing other than "pride and arrogance" that God says that he isn't going to rid himself of some day soon and very soon. God speaks to the humble of heart but ignores the proud, shouldn't SDAs take heart in those scriptural warnings and get humble before an awesome God?
Janice |
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